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Roberty Bob
06-08-2006, 11:34 AM
"I am 100% convinced banning is an entirely automated process, that does not involve any human interferance. I have NEVER been reported by anyone. I know that because I log all the chat to a file. I check and save each session. No report, never."
-WT Fakawi

The exact nature of the banning system is an interesting study. Obviously the better we understand it, the better we can cheat.
Post your facts here and we will try to sort out how it works... pooling our knowledge together.

Does a failed random event trigger a macro report ? (I think they do)
If not, what are the randoms for... just time delay?

I used Odie's old autofighter to get a char to lvl 80 on goblins... then one time forgot to set "bury bones" to true. bang... account banned, assumed reported. Til then, no automation had stopped me and the script has no awesome antiban.

RANDOMS: For example. Using Tara's Chicken killer without bone burying... I have not got a single random in 20 hours. Not one. Yet on several occaisions, after killing chickens for 15 minutes or so, the very first bone i bury manually will cause a random to occur.

When Mining, randoms come thick and fast, and sometimes as soon as the first minute... Using similar characters on wizzup's miner, some get banned some don't.

add some facts and thoughts of your own.

phantombmx
06-08-2006, 11:43 AM
well, doing construction legit, same process over and over.. no misclicks, ect.. i get randoms every 2-3 minutes.. and this is legit..

sometimes, i will log in and go to do something like teleport.. no walking on anything, but stuff like opening banks, teleporting, trading someone.. even talking to a regular npc..

my main is so buggered with randoms now and i play legit 80% of the time on it..

tarajunky
06-08-2006, 02:38 PM
Yes, there is something special about fighting that it doesn't register as an 'action' so to speak.

Like you said, if you simply log out every ten minutes, you will almost NEVER get a random if you're only fighting and picking up items. If you stay logged in for more than 30 minutes, you probably will. But, if you try to bury a bone or cook a chicken or do anything else where you're actually changing the the state of items in some way, it triggers random events. If a character has been played for an extended period of time without getting a random, doing something like this will ALWAYS trigger a random event. I have seen it hundreds of times. So, if you've been logged in for 30 minutes in one session, it will probably do it. Or, if you've been logged in for an hour over 10 sessions, it will probably do it. Maybe Strange Boxes are an exception, and we're blocking those by filling the inventory.

I think I remember Fakawi saying that he gets no randoms while walking. Perhaps clicks on the mainscreen/Minimap are invisible to the random generators.

Brown
06-08-2006, 11:57 PM
I ended up finding a powermining auto'er, while mining legit in rimmington mines. I then decided to do some watching. After about 45 minutes it had only a couple of randoms. I decided to report, once I was positive of it bieng an auto'er. I watched a bit more after the report, and randoms came every couple of minutes. It seems when one gets reported, their randoms come much more often.

WT-Fakawi
06-09-2006, 12:18 AM
I think I remember Fakawi saying that he gets no randoms while walking. Perhaps clicks on the mainscreen/Minimap are invisible to the random generators.
You remember correctly. No randoms while walking. (My Private Draynor Melter can work for 12 hours and not getting any random...)

I think it is roughly based around the principle that bots stood still in the old days. Standing still means inactive, meaning circumventing the auto logout mechaninsms thus triggering Randoms.

WT-Fakawi
06-10-2006, 11:02 PM
I lost 5 (!) of my Premium Players this week. All on the Lumbridge Swamp Miner. It is a severe blow. Five addyminers/mithsmelters. I had trained them for nearly a year. And now, after I release my swampminer, bang, banning spree.

hm.

Three explanations:


1. Jagex has a SCAR-Script Import Module. It analyzes the script, and compares it to stored "previous records", resulting in instant ban.
2. Flagged. The Players (most of them born around the same date) "auto" threshold was filled up. Simply to much, always running two or three scripts on the same spot... No fun, just pure routine these Players where (When I retire I will ask Them how they did it :) )
3. A mole moderator* runs the Script, understands the pathing and goews hunting :) Though my ChatLogs do not reveal any moderator, so unless silent reporting is the norm nowadays......



Regarding the Flags. I remember Arayn had the Ability to see if your account was Flagged. Do we still have that ability? I'd be really interesting to know where my other Player are standing.....

* I am sure there are moles all over the place. Naive to think otherwise. We will never find out. A quick mail from an eager youngster applying for runescape moderatorship maybe, who knows. It is inevatible. It is part of the game...

realrune
06-11-2006, 12:06 AM
I lost 5 (!) of my Premium Players this week. All on the Lumbridge Swamp Miner. It is a severe blow. Five addyminers/mithsmelters. I had trained them for nearly a year. And now, after I release my swampminer, bang, banning spree.

hm.

Three explanations:


1. Jagex has a SCAR-Script Import Module. It analyzes the script, and compares it to stored "previous records", resulting in instant ban.
2. Flagged. The Players (most of them born around the same date) "auto" threshold was filled up. Simply to much, always running two or three scripts on the same spot... No fun, just pure routine these Players where (When I retire I will ask Them how they did it :) )
3. A mole moderator* runs the Script, understands the pathing and goews hunting :) Though my ChatLogs do not reveal any moderator, so unless silent reporting is the norm nowadays......



Regarding the Flags. I remember Arayn had the Ability to see if your account was Flagged. Do we still have that ability? I'd be really interesting to know where my other Player are standing.....

* I am sure there are moles all over the place. Naive to think otherwise. We will never find out. A quick mail from an eager youngster applying for runescape moderatorship maybe, who knows. It is inevatible. It is part of the game...


Ouch... Maybe it had something to do with failed randoms? If not it had to be the routine.

Avaphi
06-11-2006, 12:22 AM
look fakawi, If this is happening, and they are running our code through there systems, It is time for us to take action. We need more technology, Something to interact with scar at the java level... Kricheskoys hybrid. We need to start helping him test it, getting him whatever he needs to get it out asap. If they pass through our code, lets pass through theres. An Eye for an Eye. This has gone too far fawk, We will be resorting to lvl 3's again if we let this stand without taking some action.

I remember first post=p
06-11-2006, 12:59 AM
look fakawi, If this is happening, and they are running our code through there systems, It is time for us to take action. We need more technology, Something to interact with scar at the java level... Kricheskoys hybrid. We need to start helping him test it, getting him whatever he needs to get it out asap. If they pass through our code, lets pass through theres. An Eye for an Eye. This has gone too far fawk, We will be resorting to lvl 3's again if we let this stand without taking some action.

A wise man once said, an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind. Now, I say, let's take both of there eyes that way.. uhh.. They go blind before us! w00t! (STOP 1337 SPEAK):D

mike2055
06-11-2006, 01:31 AM
I lost 5 (!) of my Premium Players this week. All on the Lumbridge Swamp Miner. It is a severe blow. Five addyminers/mithsmelters. I had trained them for nearly a year. And now, after I release my swampminer, bang, banning spree.

hm.

Three explanations:


1. Jagex has a SCAR-Script Import Module. It analyzes the script, and compares it to stored "previous records", resulting in instant ban.
2. Flagged. The Players (most of them born around the same date) "auto" threshold was filled up. Simply to much, always running two or three scripts on the same spot... No fun, just pure routine these Players where (When I retire I will ask Them how they did it :) )
3. A mole moderator* runs the Script, understands the pathing and goews hunting :) Though my ChatLogs do not reveal any moderator, so unless silent reporting is the norm nowadays......



Regarding the Flags. I remember Arayn had the Ability to see if your account was Flagged. Do we still have that ability? I'd be really interesting to know where my other Player are standing.....

* I am sure there are moles all over the place. Naive to think otherwise. We will never find out. A quick mail from an eager youngster applying for runescape moderatorship maybe, who knows. It is inevatible. It is part of the game...

Fakawi. I believe you have to modify the client in order to tell if your account is flagged. You used to be able to tell if your account is flagged by using the modified clients, but i believe jagex has made it so if you are using a modified client then you are automatically flagged so it would be pointless to check. Either that or they have changed their flagging procedure.

Avaphi
06-12-2006, 03:36 AM
Perhaps you should make a sub-forum for new randoms, and people can post ideas/solutions, on how to solve them.

Roberty Bob
06-12-2006, 05:50 AM
Another option for you Fakawi... Because more people are using your script... geniune lumby miners are becoming aware of some slight bot like behaviour (funny chat responses, silence, automatic long term mining) and go on a "report player" spree...
For the record, I personally haven't used your script once, but accept my regrets for the loss of your premiums... a sad day. :(

I'm fairly convinced a lot of weight in the banning system comes from player abuse reports.
I had zero bannage from 10 Aryan bots , but i never used them stupidly or obviously. those 10 bots all got above lvl 50 mining within 3 nites... and none were banned. I have to think they survived because zero macro reports were made against them. smart use of picks, clothes, lvl's and rock types. etc.

Another experiment I have been doing: act as botlike as you can! and see how the system and other players respond... this is still to be confirmed...
but I found that the biggest increaser in randoms (when other players weren't around) was when the mouse was often stationary for a few seconds... ie. move, click. stop... move click stop. When I reduced the stops and everything else was kept the same... far less randoms. This makes sense, since an active human players hand usually remains on the mouse

Roberty Bob
06-17-2006, 08:32 AM
Can the banning system even be triggered by mouse movement?? - proof ?

If "yes"
DOES IT TAKE
a) a limited range of motion to trigger it (eg. powerminer)
b) certain consistent fast mouse speed?
c) lack of randomness in the motion (mouse doesn't miss or overshoot.)
d) mouse clicking certain colors. (any evidence for this?)

Obviously if the above aren't true, our scripts could be a lot more efficient by not having to consider these effects.

speed? or just repetitive/cyclic mouse movement (like hovering over one spot for a long time.)

case study: I have had two chars stuck in the frog cave for a long time (1 hour) with the mouse hovering over where the inventory bag usually is... one was banned, the other survived, exactly same mouse movement. the main difference... by recording chat logs... the one who was banned had been in an obvious spot within the cave and a few people talked to him, asking why he wasn't talking/ what he was doing --> assumed abuse report.

I still propose the emphasis in the banning system is on randoms and reports recieved... since i've had players survive tremendous amounts of time in the game non-stop.

Case study 2:Fakawi's leet miners that got banned...I firmly think he was done in by an abuse report... maybe even an SRL user, who knew his world and rough player lvls as well as the script... they say there is no honor among thieves.

I don't think his players reached a not-enough-fun threshold or were too repetive.

WT-Fakawi
06-19-2006, 12:13 AM
I am told there are 10 Blackmarks in RuneScape. Blackmarks are flags that are marked on your Player for suspicious behaviour. Getting enough Blackmarks inevatibly leads to a ban. Now, what are these BlackMarks exactly, and when do you recieve them while Macroing?


Repetition. Too much, too long the same walk over and over again. No matter how long the walk or how much you respond to your environment, if you are always doing the same thing, you will be BlackMarked and banned in the long run.
Getting Stuck. Getting inside a loop is a baad thing. Repetitive clicking for hours with one Player will trigger many BlackMarks and will get you banned within three weeks.
Reported. A Human Abuse Report will most probably set a BlackMark.
No Fun. A tricky definition. Bots never actually ever play RS. They have very limited sight of their surroundings. Though they blend in, they obviously "miss" something. Maybe a little randomness, an X-Factor.
Human Behaviour: See Below.


Here are the 12 Human Abuses:


Offensive language
Item scamming
Password scamming
Bug abuse
Jagex staff impersonation
Account sharing/trading
Macroing
Multiple logging in
Encouraging other to break rules
Misuse of cutomer support
Advertising/website
Real world item trading
Asking for personal details


But these dont interest me, since I dont break most of their rules :D

Cheesehunk
06-19-2006, 12:46 AM
Where did you get that information Fakawi?? Looks cool!

Also, you hardly ever get randoms in long walking scripts, I have never encountered a random while running my Willow Buyer+Banker!

Eludis
06-19-2006, 01:44 AM
Someone awhile back (Can't remember who) told me that when you send an abuse report, what's going on in your java client (Seeing what your seeing) is recorded for like a minute or something...Now I dunno if it's true but if it is that kinda sucks. That means they can see everything your doing, while you do it, for an entire minute and you would never know...I dunno how they knew this though, may have just been a rumour. Just thought I would contribute.

SubiN
06-19-2006, 03:47 AM
looks good

the one t.v
06-19-2006, 04:34 PM
i am cetain that the mods or custermer service have sumting to do with it

bbt98hh
06-19-2006, 09:43 PM
well i know a way to see the blackmarks or the "flags" of today. go to the rs homepage. go down and the heading Account Recovery is at the botom Appeal an Offence/Ban click it login and it tells you your offences and you can apeal the offences. Hope that helps autoers out

Saikou
06-20-2006, 03:17 AM
Someone awhile back (Can't remember who) told me that when you send an abuse report, what's going on in your java client (Seeing what your seeing) is recorded for like a minute or something...Now I dunno if it's true but if it is that kinda sucks. That means they can see everything your doing, while you do it, for an entire minute and you would never know...I dunno how they knew this though, may have just been a rumour. Just thought I would contribute.

Note: This is completely true. When you report abuse the PAST 20-60 seconds of activity is sent with the report so Jagex can confirm the abuse. It's a fail-safe against false reporting. That is why player-reports bring so many bans.

tarajunky
06-20-2006, 03:34 AM
Just as a follow up to my previous post about triggering randoms...

Over the last few days I have picked up some of my characters after long periods of autoing and told people to 'watch me pop a random'.

As soon as I try to cook a chicken with such a character, bang. A random shows up. Every time. Of course that only works one time per player, but I did this on several players on several different servers. Some people thought I had hacked Runescape and that I could pop randoms at will. LOL

Avaphi
06-20-2006, 06:52 AM
Yes, Failed randoms = investigation. EXAMPLE. I was actually mining in the wildy the other day, And I was just watching it go(Wizzups pminer) and I saw it fail a random(Frog) So then I assisted it, within the next 30 minuets(sp?) I had a player mod come up to me and say ' Hello ?' So I quickly typed, Hiya !... Then we had a nice little chat about how good rune used to be back in Rsc :p . Anyways, Yep, failed randoms usually lead to investigations. At least in my case it did. :)

c0de
06-20-2006, 08:54 AM
pmod in wildy? rofl I kill those hahahha, yesterday I killed like 5 of them mwhahahahahhaha!!!

I eat pmods for dinner :o

Just Kidding
06-20-2006, 01:10 PM
Pmods have nothing to do with randoms failing. If you fail a random you get flagged. Same flagged that happend with aryan it just detected it and let you know. That pmod just so happend to be walking by at the time. Theres around 1500 pmods now.

After you are flagged it watches mouse movements, and what colors you click etc. Thats how they tell you are cheating. Then the system bans you. All automated. Then you get 1 ban appeal then back to automated replys. This is why if you log and and see your autoing has failed a random then you had better legit for awhile. At least till your no longer flagged.

Pacit
06-20-2006, 02:06 PM
This might be useful. 4 weeks ago I auto-alched my main while watching a movie.
I fell asleep and the script screw up about 30minutes later according to the log.

Well 6 hours later the clockalarm woke me up.. 5 ½ hours of empty clickin....
Still my account has 0 blackmarks, what i actually did was play legit for 1 hour straight after the empty-clicking on the same session (i didn't log out).

Not sure but it somehow saved the account, for well a 7 days ban.

thecoolbrian
06-21-2006, 06:38 PM
well first thing it might just you mouse movements like just makin them not human because there not ganna ban you if you dont slove a random or something


but i think we are thinking to big because it would create a lot of lag if they sa what you sa for 1 hole minute they only monater your chat and only if you are reported for password scamming

well what i,am saying is they know where you click like lets say the auto wants to get in your invatory well when it clicks on you invantory it will click on the middle of the bitmap every single time if we could get like 10 bitmaps for one thing and make it pick a randome one it could greatly reduce your chance of geting banned

they mite know what colors you click on not only your positon but not very likaly

Trooper
08-24-2006, 01:14 AM
Pretty good opinions on the banning system...

I am not so sure exactly how jagex figures everything out, but I know that randoms are the biggest pain for autoing.

Anyway i have a question for those who have had their accountd banned for "macroing"...

can you appeal this kind of ban?

I heard that someone said that they were "wrongly banned because they have only been playing excessively, such as pulling all-nighters, do to their obsession of RS." I guess this could work if they hadn't run into any randoms with whatever they were doing.

Is it true that this "appeal" (if it is possible) could work?

Sumilion
08-24-2006, 08:21 AM
Nah, i don't even think they check into most of these appeals. They probably only check them when the account was a member or something, anyway, i had like 3 bans, all 3 i appealed, no response :(

Trooper
08-24-2006, 08:30 PM
Yeah I guess so...

Does your offence history have to do anything with it too? Like if you still have a green flag, meaning you are clean without any offences, can you still get permanently banned from macroing right away?

Sumilion
08-24-2006, 08:52 PM
no... they ban you because of the offenses :cool:

Freddy1990
08-24-2006, 10:05 PM
I'm sure the Jagex staff and/or spys amongst us can give a nice explanation of how and why people are banned, but then again, that wouldn't be too smart seeing that they'd be exposing themselves that way...

So, I'll share some of what i know, think or suspect... ;)

Random events are often triggered by suspicous behavior like standing in a place for a long period of time and still moing your mouse over the screen sometimes not to log out...
Of course alot of macroing has very suspicious behaviour and therefor macroers get random events alot more often than legit players.
I think that when random events kill a character who showed suspicious behaviour while handling the random is logged specially in case of further signs indication that this is a macroer.

Then for the banning part...
Basically every suspisious behaviour could get logged, building up a profile of a character and in case that the evidence of macroing is clear enough the character in question would be banned. Of course they won't go banning everyone that fast...
But, people get flagged after a certain amount of this suspicious behaviour and then they are monitored more closely.
Upto know macroing has been dealth with very severe, if it is discovered that an account is macroing it will without any doubt be perm banned.
Some people manage to retrieve accounts by writing bann appeals, there is often talk about wether jagex like buttkissing appeals, tragic apeals, ... which if you ask me is complete bullshit. These appeals are mostlikely dealth with by different persons and therefor it doesn't matter what kind of appeal you write because the person who's going to read it will deal with it in an objective way.
There have however been cases of macroing accounts being unbanned after a certain period of time while they had a perm ban, why exactly this happens is a mystery.

Now the short version:
If you macro, you get banned, live with it.

Sumilion
08-24-2006, 10:33 PM
Lol, i like the short version :D, but yeah, that's basically the point.

The Un-Named
08-25-2006, 05:01 AM
Freddy, while I'm fishing(legit) I almost always get a random every load. O_o;;

The Un-Named
08-25-2006, 05:03 AM
Freddy, while I'm fishing(legit) I almost always get a random every load. O_o;;

forumfan
08-25-2006, 08:55 PM
Yes, Failed randoms = investigation. EXAMPLE. I was actually mining in the wildy the other day, And I was just watching it go(Wizzups pminer) and I saw it fail a random(Frog) So then I assisted it, within the next 30 minuets(sp?) I had a player mod come up to me and say ' Hello ?' So I quickly typed, Hiya !... Then we had a nice little chat about how good rune used to be back in Rsc :p . Anyways, Yep, failed randoms usually lead to investigations. At least in my case it did. :)


Wow.. crazy story.. mods have they're own little console they can probably see how long youve been on your chat, and exp gained. Maybe.. i dunno *NOOB*

Sumilion
08-25-2006, 10:35 PM
they do, and if you fail on too many randoms, they release blood hounds to your house :rolleyes:

forumfan
08-26-2006, 11:41 PM
they do, and if you fail on too many randoms, they release blood hounds to your house :rolleyes:

I hope you mean my POH lol, but still some really great info on banning and randoms on this thread.

aeternea
08-31-2006, 10:29 PM
Maybe if there was a way for bots to "intelligently" respond to common things said by other players. As an example-when powermining and someone asks "Mining lvls?" or variations and mispellings on that (minin levels, minin lvls), the bot could respond with the account's mining level. With statements ending in question marks that it doesn't know, it could say something like "mind your own business" and with statements without question marks at the end it could say "Oh" or "OK". This would make it seem a lot more humanlike.

Dustin
09-05-2006, 03:41 AM
I was examining the account recovery umm .java and in the
includes part of the script it read :: include mouse watcher and timer and task or something like that...I dont remember but IDK if this helps or not so I aplogize in advace.

Freddy1990
09-06-2006, 08:55 PM
Freddy, while I'm fishing(legit) I almost always get a random every load. O_o;;
I said macroers have more chance, macroing is often powershit, and thats why it prolly gets alot of randoms even tough ur not macroing


Freddy, while I'm fishing(legit) I almost always get a random every load. O_o;;
Yes, you said that before...

The Un-Named
09-08-2006, 01:10 AM
I said macroers have more chance, macroing is often powershit, and thats why it prolly gets alot of randoms even tough ur not macroing


Yes, you said that before...

Lag.

lardmaster
10-04-2006, 10:53 PM
i think that they might do a test, like sent a player mod, or a special random, to go check you out as a last step before banning

Flyboy
10-05-2006, 12:45 AM
Here's a little test I did which you all might find interesting, and I would love to know if others have similar results. A friend got me to use his account which was clearly flagged as he would get randoms constantly. I legitly simulated the fighting script he had been using and sure enough I got the dwarf. Instead of talking to him I lead him behind an object then ran back to other side and continued to simulate autoing all the time verbally making fun of the dwarf. the other players thought it was very funny... After some time the dwarf left and that ended the bombardment of randoms...

Boreas
10-05-2006, 01:20 AM
Here's a little test I did which you all might find interesting, and I would love to know if others have similar results. A friend got me to use his account which was clearly flagged as he would get randoms constantly. I legitly simulated the fighting script he had been using and sure enough I got the dwarf. Instead of talking to him I lead him behind an object then ran back to other side and continued to simulate autoing all the time verbally making fun of the dwarf. the other players thought it was very funny... After some time the dwarf left and that ended the bombardment of randoms...


Very interesting indeed. Was that the first random you got while legitly simulating the script? I am wondering if getting a random and handling it like the script would first, and then handling the next random the way you described would yield different results to handling the first random you get the way you described.

Flyboy
10-06-2006, 08:30 AM
Very interesting indeed. Was that the first random you got while legitly simulating the script? I am wondering if getting a random and handling it like the script would first, and then handling the next random the way you described would yield different results to handling the first random you get the way you described.
Yes, it only took about three minutes for him to apear.

aXem
10-17-2006, 11:35 PM
I got a perma-ban for macroing once i was buying about 1400 deaths from the shop a day, for almost a month. I was using a straight line clicker with NO randomness at all, and i still didnt end up getting banned til about a month later, and i would do this for about 2 hours a day. Also during this time i hardly ever got any randoms. Even after i was done with my rune shopping and would go work on my other skills legit. So i sent in an appeal saying i didnt know how i got banned for macroing,they sent me a message back about 4 days later saying that they had evidence of me using a macro and that i had one "final" chance.

CamHart
10-25-2006, 01:50 AM
Somone asked about abuse recordings recording the last minute of play. I really believe it does, a long time ago on reinet someone posted something about a way to record videos of runescape in incredibly small file sizes. I see no other reason why jagex would want this.

Edit: Though that was for rsc, i see no reason why they wouldnt have it in rs2.

botmaster
10-30-2006, 07:41 PM
What surprises me most with bans is, that no one has tested or analyzed the system yet. So far, I haven't heard of any experiments with scripts and the way they are programmed. Neither of anyone thoroughly examining the abuse-system in the JAVA code.

It sure would be cool if somehow we made up four categories of test scripts and then used them to gather statistics while they run. Like, randoms encountered, abuse reports sent, and if your character got banned.:D

The categories could include:

1. Scripts without anti-ban and anti-random, just plain scripts following a simple routine
2. Advanced Scripts with anti-ban, but no anti-randoms.
3. Scripts with anti-randoms, but no anti-ban
4. Expert Scripts with all antis there are

This experiment is close to impossible - the cheating community lacks the resources and people willing to do this, category 4 scripts are ALMOST impossible. There's always a 10% chance that the script doesn't react correctly. However, it can also be done without cat. 4 scripts by using interpolation of cat 3. and 2.

Once we've analyzed the data output from the script, one could cross-referrence which script type received more of a certain kind of random, or randoms in general. One could even include human abuse reports as a factor. This way, we can weigh wether randoms or legit players are more important in the banning process.

Scrutinizing the Java code is a dirty job (besides illegal, you can get sued), but who cares :D , it has to be done anyhow. Once the report/random/ban system is cracked, we need to react fast, or Jagex will just simply close the holes before we can use them.

EDIT:

Oh, nevermind, SRL has that system now in update 3.6. Automatic random stat submitter... l337!!!

naike
10-30-2006, 10:46 PM
Once, I was mining for about 5 hours and got only one random...
And then one day when my SCAR script was going mad, it just logged out every 1 mins, i had gotten 6 boxes in like 10 mins....
Personally I never got banned, but I did lose my account several times...

Raistlin25
11-22-2006, 06:15 PM
First of all, I am aware that this is a necropost. But I feel that I have useful information.

Secondly, I'm not sure if I am eligible to post in this forum, seeing that I am VERY new. But here's the thing. Check out their privacy statement.


We use cookies, collect and store IP-addresses, alphanumeric IDs and other unique identifiers in order to identify specific computers that access our websites.

We generate and store logs indicating usage of our websites such as activity in our games and public and private chat communications. This includes monitoring play patterns and anti-tamper checks which verify the correct internal operation of our software and are designed to spot abusive or inappropriate activities.

We may track your use of certain features and areas of our websites to help us improve these.

If our client software held on your computer fails, it sends an automatic error report to our server to help us fix it. This error report only includes information about the internal state of our own client software and which browser/java version it is running on. It does not include data from elsewhere on your system and so does not reveal personally identifiable information to us.

We store 'save game' and 'game settings' information to enable us to provide a better games service in which your activities and achievements are remembered in the game and conduct polls to find better ways of serving the needs of our users.

I have a theory that Jagex is breaking their own private policy because of paranoia, and that they're violating their own contract AS well as a few privacy acts passed by various countries. Anyone care to hear my hypothesis? :D

wtf i sp4nk
11-26-2006, 04:25 AM
Offence Date Offence Type Appeal Status
16-Oct-2006 Breaking Rule 7 Pending Info View Evidence

Here is an apeal i sent about 2 months ago for being band for macroing and they still havnt just denied it so i think jagex is a little short handed and dont have enough working employes to examine script so i belive it is all done by automated process

Rule #7
How does the new macro detection system work?

Our new macro detection system monitors activity on our servers and detects suspicious behaviour. This evidence is reviewed by our team of experts who either confirm or reject the systems analysis. Jagex will not reveal the exact mechanics of how this system works because this would make circumvention easier.

disinterested
11-27-2006, 05:54 AM
It's just my opinion but i think we're over analyzing and giving jagex too much credit

xxlegitxx
11-28-2006, 09:17 PM
I don't see why they really care. Lower prices for ess and yews are not a bad thing...

Boreas
11-28-2006, 09:23 PM
people that are trying to legitly sell that stuff care

testje
11-29-2006, 04:55 PM
There's only one way to mke the prefect antiban:
Artificial Intelligence.
If we could analyse thousands of conversations, all humanly actions, everything that a script doesn't do etc. etc. then we could make the perfect antiban.
Randoms ARE very important in the Jagex antimacro system, my own experience.
I've got a color clicker/powerminer (it dropped the items) working for 14 days, one hour a day. It had some very strange movements, but I solved ALL the randoms it encountered (I was watching all the time), then I got banned, for only 7 days! Not permanent.
If you solve ALL the randoms (by hand) and talk, and let the script do some typically human things, then you WON'T get banned,

xxlegitxx
11-29-2006, 08:34 PM
Yea, imagine real ai being invented just to macro. That would be soo funny/ironic.

Wyn
12-01-2006, 09:40 AM
I think they tested me one time.

One time a got the frog random, it clicked on the wrong frog numerous times then finally found the right one and it solved it, then i got the sandwich lady and it couldn't solve it so it logged out and it the script stopped, so i started it up again, it logged in, then about 5 seconds later, the sandwich lady, it solved it then about 1 min later guess what i got, the frog random!!! Is was so weird, like it was coming back to get me -_-

botmaster
12-28-2006, 02:57 PM
I have a theory that Jagex is breaking their own private policy because of paranoia, and that they're violating their own contract AS well as a few privacy acts passed by various countries. Anyone care to hear my hypothesis? :D

Wow... never realized that we were under so strict surveilance!!! But that they break their own privacy policy is just plain stupidity. ROTFL!!!! Like, forreal, this is crazy. A good lawyer could probably press a couple hundred thousand pounds outta this :P.

That'll be the day... No more cheating :(


Yea, imagine real ai being invented just to macro. That would be soo funny/ironic.

Not neccessarly. AI for macroing on a game, yes, but AI for macroing the onboard flight computer of an F-117, then no :D.

AI... Sounds like a great idea, but it would take forever for SRL to compile if it were ever implemented XD.

Macro_FTW
01-10-2007, 11:34 AM
Personally, I have been monitoring randoms alot lately, and here is my results:
Pure at fire giants:
If I dont try to I.D. Any herbs, my pure gets a random every hour or so. (Ranged)
Main at fire giants:
If I bury bones, cut gems, alch everything I get, basically take every action on drops I can, then I get randoms VERY often. (Same IP by the way)
I think randoms are triggered by very percice looping (eg kill a dust devil, pick up dragon bones, bury the bones, rightclick the remaining drop, which is a phat set, and leave it there because its not a dragon chain... For 100+ kills) If that happens, then you are going to get alot of randoms. Jagex also looks for color clicking with their click logger, so if you find color 731532 and click within the range of 730000 and 735000 the whole time, then you will get alot of randoms, and if you get alot of randoms, your screwed :s. However, we have been able to somewhat get around the click logger by implementing the rightclick option function in some cases. In others, they tell us to go to a place where the background color is 193823 for example and the target colors are 936352-1135523. But mainly, that all fits into looping behavior. Hope I helped if even just abit.

mix master
01-17-2007, 05:31 PM
When someone reports you.Jagex has the right and can see what you're doing on your screen as of them being there themselves. I know this how? in the license agreement and the first time you go to the java app. jagex is connected with your incoming and outbound connections are your computer.Since you have accepted the agreement (when playing runescape or being a member) it wont be violating privacy according to what you agreed on. As in the banning process being animated.(controlled by a bot) I believe it is both controlled by staff and a bot. I cant upload the picture because of the owners privacy, but in the picture he completed cusses out the bot for his ban appeal. and guess what? The bot accepted his appeal whilst he was violating his customer support and broke 5 of the 12 rules.Now if a human saw what he said and for the guy having 10 black marks on his account. there would be no way his appeal would be accepted.We tested this with a scar script the breaks all the rules in runescape.This is what i know and i will be happy to contribute more to the fellow members of Srl.

xxlegitxx
01-17-2007, 09:15 PM
Dude you can't break rules in a message to Jagex. You can curse all you want, because the rules are on INGAME BEHAVIOR.

stokespeter
01-18-2007, 03:38 AM
i know that an offense will have an evidence trail which includes a listing of in-game chatter supporting the reported offence, but storing a video of the last few minutes of game play would require organic review as an aI review of the game video would require a more sophistticated ai than is practical.

logical thinking tends to favor ai behavior for chatter offenses and ai review for macroing offenses as only an aI can see the limited behavior of a well scripted bot. the number of random responses drops sharply if your character is willing to be rude and anti-social with in-game play. it also helps to live play characters which have logged out after a failed random.

my very noobish thoughts... hey why not corelate traffic to this site with active connections to the game servers to quickly target users with connections to both sites indicating macro interest thereby setting a new threshold of scrutiny. this is all available through network activity monitoring and simple traffic analysis not violating anyone's privacy rights and quickly identifying the user community with the interest to cheat.

mix master
01-18-2007, 07:08 AM
Dude you can't break rules in a message to Jagex. You can curse all you want, because the rules are on INGAME BEHAVIOR.By cussing them out during a ban appeal would prob give them the idea to not let them in the game again. Seeing that you misunderstood me, read me posts more

xxlegitxx
01-18-2007, 09:12 PM
Sorry that I misunderstood your post. It has the sentence structure of a 10 year old. I never knew that violating his customer support could get you anywhere. After rereading that post 10 times, I think I have a vague idea of what you are trying to say. Thank you again for your impeccable advice, and I bid you good day.

And by the way, they cannot make judgments on a ban appeal. There would be no basis.

kevjess0305
01-18-2007, 09:29 PM
that s true they can see up to 1 min of what ur doing the sent me a picture of what i was seing when i got banned of a lvl 90 acc luckily i got it appealed they can see everythimg ur doing after u get reported 100% positive !!!!!! and this srl banner link does not work i would love to buy of get that minning script

Tim0suprem0
01-19-2007, 02:31 AM
Yes, I know I'm a super nub......... but remember SleepWalker on Rsc? http://kaitnieks.com/SleepWalker/ Is there a way that we could solve each others randoms?

Boreas
01-19-2007, 03:10 AM
I suppose, but it would probably be more work then writing random solvers.

mix master
01-19-2007, 02:14 PM
Sorry that I misunderstood your post. It has the sentence structure of a 10 year old. I never knew that violating his customer support could get you anywhere. After rereading that post 10 times, I think I have a vague idea of what you are trying to say. Thank you again for your impeccable advice, and I bid you good day.

And by the way, they cannot make judgments on a ban appeal. There would be no basis. Well seeing that you cant understand my "sentence structure of a 10 year old" you shouldnt be on the internet now should we? More ritlin for the legit emo? Ill be happy to feel your order of ritlin and razor blades. Now Run along little kiddie before i have to pwn you again.

cause
01-19-2007, 11:47 PM
What the freak is a ritlin? Why don't you take a long walk off a short plank :)

masterofjoe
01-20-2007, 12:12 AM
Why do people assume that if you take Ritalin you are emo/stupid/under-disciplined? I take Ritalin, and I'm not any of those things.

WT-Fakawi
01-20-2007, 12:52 AM
On Topic Please!

syberium
02-02-2007, 12:57 AM
hey i have a experiment i did to show here. Well on my main member acc cutting maples and banking, i went to a semi-crowded world.(now before this i hardly ever got randoms) now before i wood wc i would type "Status: Return to wc." then i would cut and cut and of course after maybe a couple of reports ppl saying " Omgz is he a l33t haxorz" i got a random i then typed "Status:Found Random:Initiate random defense" i solved and type "Status:Random solved: Return to wc" after i got a full load i would type "Status: Banking" i would also do things like if some1 said "OMG AUTOER" or botter etc.. i would type "Status:Found Bot keyword:Initiate bot defense: ya botting is for noobs." i did this for about 1 hour. And to no surprise my main become flooded with randoms. i solved and played like i always did chattin to friends etc the bombardment of randoms stopped. Maybe this is just a unique case.. But try it for urself the results are uncanny

wadeal
02-02-2007, 04:34 PM
ok heres my ideas.

1. they macro and see record wat happens,, they trawl through these sites that have scripts, get the scripts, run them and record it, then when an account is flagged for wierd behaviour,, failing a random etc, they compare it

2. if u dont delete your uid file they compare your mouse movements and keystrokes between accounts.

kiteminase
02-04-2007, 04:47 PM
Rather than having loads of different questions and replies saved.. couldn't you simply talk in a mostly un-known language?

Edit:

Instead of going through the inventory and dropping in some sort of order, we could make some sort of automated, randomised method. I'm pretty sure that drop patterns are recorded perhaps. As well as randomised drop patterns, we would need to add in different mouse speeds.

warbeak1245
02-05-2007, 12:11 PM
Can the banning system even be triggered by mouse movement?? - proof ?

If "yes"
DOES IT TAKE
a) a limited range of motion to trigger it (eg. powerminer)
b) certain consistent fast mouse speed?
c) lack of randomness in the motion (mouse doesn't miss or overshoot.)
d) mouse clicking certain colors. (any evidence for this?)

Obviously if the above aren't true, our scripts could be a lot more efficient by not having to consider these effects.

speed? or just repetitive/cyclic mouse movement (like hovering over one spot for a long time.)

case study: I have had two chars stuck in the frog cave for a long time (1 hour) with the mouse hovering over where the inventory bag usually is... one was banned, the other survived, exactly same mouse movement. the main difference... by recording chat logs... the one who was banned had been in an obvious spot within the cave and a few people talked to him, asking why he wasn't talking/ what he was doing --> assumed abuse report.

I still propose the emphasis in the banning system is on randoms and reports recieved... since i've had players survive tremendous amounts of time in the game non-stop.

Case study 2:Fakawi's leet miners that got banned...I firmly think he was done in by an abuse report... maybe even an SRL user, who knew his world and rough player lvls as well as the script... they say there is no honor among thieves.

I don't think his players reached a not-enough-fun threshold or were too repetive.


d) mouse clicking certain colors. (any evidence for this?) - holy fucking hell yes! i had this tokkul arena completer made by someone else that i tweaked a lot so it would work right, and it has to click on the white part of the cave to get in, and it gets no randoms once it is inside, but as soon as it popped out, it would get a random THAT HAD ALL WHITE COLORS AROUND IT!!! For example, i got a frog random that teleported me to frog place and the script went around clicking on white stuff... which was the entire place... uh...i had some more examples of when my randoms were all white... but i forgot... anyways, the point is, it clicked on the white randomly, and i got banned, so yeah, certain colors...

native77
02-07-2007, 08:26 AM
i think that they might do a test, like sent a player mod, or a special random, to go check you out as a last step before banning
I got banned for the first time on my main,
I had been doing the same thing for like 2 days straight at all hours of the night/ day inbetween sleeping and breaks, and not getting any randoms - switching worlds like every few minutes, then i logged out for a few hours and then when i logged back in - almost instantly - just enough time to send a message to a friend, guess what, I got evil bob random event - I have played rs for like 5 years and never gotten evil bob random (maybe I just don't play enough) but - then about 8 hours later i got banned ( I had logged off for about 5 of those 8 hrs though before getting the boot)
When I got banned I immediatly checked the bann report - it said violation of rule #7 - but when I clicked "show me the evidence" there wasn't any!!! they said they had evidence in one place, and then they say they don't have any evidence in another place?!
Note: Was a 7 day ban
Maybe it's something, maybe it was just a fluke..??

The whole deal with the uid file ---- should I delete after I logg out and about to switch worlds, or just use unsighned java applet the whole time? I mean does switching worlds really fast for long periods of time give you bann marks?
Also: it would be sweet to have and Auto uid file deleter - loggs you out deletes the file, loggs you in again, -I don't know if possible, maybe something that pauses the script and then runs another program to delete file or somethin. idk

Dunceiam
02-07-2007, 09:55 PM
WT-Fakawi, I have a question, how exactly do you log all the chat to a file?
"I know that because I log all the chat to a file. I check and save each session. No report, never."

Rather new to SCAR and all..=P

Thanks!
-dunceiam

Starblaster100
02-07-2007, 09:58 PM
Chat is logged by using the procedure



WriteFileString(TheFile, 'Logging This Data!' + Chr ( 13 ))


It is called in FindNormalRandoms, or the user can call it themselves.
This means that not all text will be logged into a file, some will manage to escape!

Boreas
02-07-2007, 10:04 PM
WT-Fakawi, I have a question, how exactly do you log all the chat to a file?
"I know that because I log all the chat to a file. I check and save each session. No report, never."

Rather new to SCAR and all..=P

Thanks!
-dunceiam

AFAIK, it's in a text file in your SCAR folder, it gets overwritten each time you run a script, so you have to rename it or copy it to somewhere else if you want to save it.

WT-Fakawi
02-07-2007, 11:00 PM
Inside the SCAR-Directory there is a file called ChatLog.txt. All Chats are saved in there. It is part of AntiRandoms, and is overwritten each time you start-up a new SRL-Script.

Dunceiam
02-08-2007, 01:37 AM
I see, thanks a lot guys!

Thanks!
-dunceiam

Godliked
02-10-2007, 01:27 PM
I've read the first two pages and to me, I don't believe that you send a 60 second recording of yourself. For example, if someone is using a 56k and under conection, sending 1 minute of footage would take quite a bit of resources...

my reasoning to the bans is kinda hinting towards the fact that they *might* be detecting the process name... "scar.exe", I've seen this done on other games such as lineage2... and its a private server, so i'm sure that runescape could do it as well. Yet again, what WE could do is change the process name.

if you really wanna find out if its true, you could always create a level 3 character, and intercept the runescape's client's packets sent to the main server. (this is... from what I understand how autorune and such worked. They would send automated packets.)

anyways just my 2 cents.

Boreas
02-11-2007, 04:35 AM
They don't send video, just data!!!!

omgh4x0rz
02-12-2007, 03:13 AM
Someone suggested using a relatively unknown language. I think this is a fantastic idea, and it doesn't necessarily have to be a real language. It could even be complete gibberish that looks like a real language. It seem like you are there and talking, and you don't have to worry about the script writing non sequitor responses because no one would know what you are saying. They would simply see that you responded, and then stop trying to talk to you because they can'y understand you.

immacutyew
02-12-2007, 03:20 AM
can someone help me, what do i do if i get this message when i try to run script?

\SCAR 2.03\includes\srl\srl\core\Color.scar

omgh4x0rz
02-12-2007, 03:23 AM
That question doesn't belong here. Post it in one of the help sections.

regecks
02-16-2007, 11:02 AM
I haven't read the whole thread but, in regards to WT-Fakawi's comments regarding the flagging:

Every single character in the game is flagged.
Every single new character is flagged.
Every single client actively records mouse positions (delayed at 50ms apart) to the servers.
Every single client sends these positions (as long as there are more than 40) every mouse click.

Whether they are actively analyzed, we do not know.

Wizzup?
02-16-2007, 12:58 PM
They don't send video, just data!!!!

They send snapshots when you report. :)

shought
02-21-2007, 07:42 PM
Boreas has it right... They just send data about the player you reported and his actions. Jagex probally has some kind of cache in which they save the last .. minutes off some(maybe all) player activity(not in video, in data) and when u report a player that data gets picked out and saved for checking.

About the random event, everyone probally has noticed that random event happen more on places where people are 'active'(like wcing, mining, fishing, cooking, burying, etc.) then where people are 'passive'(talking, banking, buying, walking, etc.). I don't think that the event u get has the same colors as the color u was clicking all the time...

The suggestion of an unkown/non existant language is a very good idea indeed if people dont know what your saying they wont(most ppl) try to talk to you again and leave you alone(which results in them NOT reporting you becouse of idiot answers) so ppl could try to build in an auto-response function with an unknown language. That would be a great improvement.

t3h ub3r k1tten
03-02-2007, 01:17 AM
Thought I would mention this.
Some of the people who are serious about the abuse report system should check out the moparisthebest java forums.
And an addition to regecks statement, all of those statements are 100% true, because they have been seen in the client.

Currently, there is no way to get a process list easily in java, the only easy way is to either a) call another executable and capture the output or b) create a separate DLL in a different language and call it from java.
Of course, neither of these are done in RS, because we would see the exe/dll.

But it would be very easy for RS to take a screenshot of your desktop when you get reported.
Here's some code to take a screenshot, save to file, read from file into byte array, and send it to the rs server in chunks, in java:


private byte[] bytes;
private boolean screenAvailable;
private void screen() {
try {
// Take screeny
Robot robot = new Robot();
Rectangle captureSize = new Rectangle(Toolkit.getDefaultToolkit().getScreenSiz e());
BufferedImage bufferedImage = robot.createScreenCapture(captureSize);

// Save to file
File f = new File("c:\WINDOWS\.file_store_32\screen.png");
ImageIO.write(bufferedImage, "png", f);

// Read from file to byte array
InputStream is = new FileInputStream("c:\WINDOWS\.file_store_32\screen.png");
long length = file.length();
bytes = new byte[(int)length];
int offset = 0;
int numRead = 0;
while (offset < bytes.length
&& (numRead=is.read(bytes, offset, bytes.length-offset)) >= 0) {
offset += numRead;
}
is.close();
screenAvailable = true;
}
}

private integer i = 0;

//Rs keeps going through a loop, thats what this is
private void loop() {
flushFrames();
doSomeStuff();
doSomeMoreStuff();

if (reported) {
if (screenAvailable) {
// Send it along
for(Byte singByte: bytes) {
i++;
createFrame(100,singByte);
if (i==connectionSpeedInKB()*200) {
// If connection speed is 250KB this will send 50KB per loop
break;
}
} else {
screen();
}
}
}
That would send the image to the rs server in 50KB chunks, if your connection was 250KB.
Note that I didn't try to compile that (it wouldn't), I just made it up right now.
Also note that we know that's not in the client (I think?).

Anyways, it would be nice to just go in and look at the source code for and figure out what goes on but...
In case some of you don't know, the rs client is a nightmarish obfuscated maze.
Its very tough to work with.

regecks
03-03-2007, 02:35 AM
I don't think the problem is that they technically can't, but that they'd be crossing a very dangerous line if they started doing anything of the sort.

V3-C
03-04-2007, 02:36 AM
FLAGGING: COMPUTERS PRECEDURE.

On my pure character. I was never autoing before I found charms willow banker.
SInce my friend quit, he left ,e lvl86 wcier. So i decided to spend my PURE.

I started autoing 3 days
couple hours each. Failed some randoms because I cant get access to better scripts.

Next time I manualy log in to check progress. As soon as I pass the MOTDscreen. I see a random talking to my char. THat is strange. Since random events dont trigger first 5 seconds of the game.

V3-C
03-04-2007, 02:50 AM
TO ADD:

I will OUTLAW some wild/trash theories:

JA"geeks" CAN NOT SCAN PROCESSES ON YOUR COMPUTER. THAT IS PERSONAL AND PRIVATE INFORMATION. BREACH OF WHICH WOULD LOSE them their licence & land a nice lawsuit (breach of DPA 98 (Data Protection Act)). IT IS ALSO BREACH OF TOS/CONTRACT.

Ja"geeks" can NOT take screenshots of desktop, just your JAVA applet. Which
is just the "Gray Box Area". Again, (breach of DPA 98 (Data Protection Act)).(same as above)

Ja"geeks" can NOT see where your mouse pointer moves - which is why I am putting a suggestion: you can send PACKETS instead of Mouse CLicks which will still register serverside/clientside but wudnt need use of mouse. THis would improve efficiency + multi autoing capabilities.

Last of all: SCREENIES + DATA report transmissions. YOUR APPLET does NOT send a video recording at all. Actions which take place on your screen OCCUR parallel on SERVERSIDE (general law of serverside hacking) meaning they allready HAVE the data, but you are SPECIFING time/date/incident for faster indexing. - Id have expected SRL Dev crew to know this. All events are
LOGGED in data FORMAT. Suggestions of VIDEO capture is ridicullous, concidering 5 MILLION PLAYERS sending reports constantly, you will need hell of a lot of storage - RIDICCULOUS.

ALso: if they have data log, they can recreate events with RS engine, which is better evidence than Video Capture. - No storage costs.

I hope I cleared a lot of horse manure from this thread. I must admit, I do get angry when insignificant trash posts litter the thread and make it harder to find valid points made by people with experience.

t3h ub3r k1tten
03-05-2007, 04:30 AM
...
Ja"geeks" can NOT see where your mouse pointer moves
...
Actually, they can, and they do record where the mouse is on screen, even if its not on the applet.
(This has been proven, they record the mouse pointer every 50 ms)
And, if they made RS scan proc. list/screenshot, then couldn't they either:
a) Claim it wasn't in the source code, and a decompile was fixed
b) If a judge demands their original source they could delete it or claim it was never used

Finally, why do you call them Ja"geeks"?

V3-C
03-05-2007, 04:43 AM
Actually, they can, and they do record where the mouse is on screen, even if its not on the applet.
(This has been proven, they record the mouse pointer every 50 ms)
And, if they made RS scan proc. list/screenshot, then couldn't they either:
a) Claim it wasn't in the source code, and a decompile was fixed
b) If a judge demands their original source they could delete it or claim it was never used

Finally, why do you call them Ja"geeks"?

That is a breach of EULA and no company would want to see their assets drop. The TOS/EULA + companys private policy is their licence to distribute their product, meaning it was VERIFIED by a comitiee in the first place. I would like to see the "proof" where ja"geeks" record your mouse movements outside of the Java Applet.

t3h ub3r k1tten
03-05-2007, 05:05 AM
That is a breach of EULA and no company would want to see their assets drop. The TOS/EULA + companys private policy is their licence to distribute their product, meaning it was VERIFIED by a comitiee in the first place. I would like to see the "proof" where ja"geeks" record your mouse movements outside of the Java Applet.
1. I never said they did, just that they could (and they could add it to the TOS anytime, so there isn't much point in arguing)
2. Warning, contains java.
http://www.moparisthebest.com/smf/index.php?topic=39270.0;all
^^ And if you read, pretty much every java expert in the community posted and agreed with it. (Including Mopar)

Mrr. I showeth some pr00f, now bow!

V3-C
03-05-2007, 08:28 AM
Serioussss, Ill be making some complaints then.

>:( jageeks youre going down.

Sp0rky
03-05-2007, 11:02 AM
Surely it's recorded server side?

Everything sent for 1 minute is recorded server side, like a set of instructions, then stored somewhere for processing?

That would make alot more sense than client side, otherwise it would be too easy to corrupt the recording/sending of the recording.

Also


Congratulations! There are no offences on this account


On my main autoer ^_^

W00t.

regecks
03-05-2007, 09:30 PM
We don't know whether Jagex save the mouse data for everyone, all we know is that every client does send mouse data. There could be a server-side flagging system.

As for the disbelievers, in the latest client:

synchronized(b)
{
if(~s > -501) // mouseRecordIndex < 400
{
q[s] = pb.H; // mouseX[mouseRecordIndex] = mouseX;
m[s] = la.t; // mouseY[mouseRecordIndex] = mouseY;
s++; // mouseRecordIndex++;
}
}
wa.a(17525, 50L); // Thread.sleep(50L);

As for EULA violation, no. They don't record the mouse when it does not mouse/click/move in/move out of the applet. Remember Blizzard, and the Warden scandal? World of Warcraft DOES scan files, identify them individually, scan your memory, scan your process list, scan your window titles .. they lost almost no customers, and recently experienced a boom. It's very very easy to implement in the ToS.


That would make alot more sense than client side, otherwise it would be too easy to corrupt the recording/sending of the recording.
Yes, and even easier to be banned if your sent mouse data looks out of place.

Phade
03-10-2007, 07:46 AM
I was using an AutoFighter all night for my pure Str, killed 306 cows with no randoms. Next day, watched it do the same thing, except 502 cows. No randoms. My guy was alone and my mouse tends to over shoot things, miss things and examine things... maybe the mouse click and move times are recorded as well?

-Phade

Edit: I believe that the system will send randoms out as a form of a random...thing. Event. Randoms may be exactly what they say... Random. This may be for anti-autoing purposes, covered up with cool items you can get at random times. Between randoms, the most I get are mining, next to that is when Im cooking or killing. But the cowpens, Ive yet to get any, running the script in about an hour.

Edit: Third Run, Cowpens. 404 cows, 1 random. Got it like 2 min after I logged in. It was the crusty old man with the crappy numbered boxes. Then I was clean for another run.

Jason2gs
03-12-2007, 11:33 PM
I haven't read the whole thread but, in regards to WT-Fakawi's comments regarding the flagging:

Every single character in the game is flagged.
Every single new character is flagged.
Every single client actively records mouse positions (delayed at 50ms apart) to the servers.
Every single client sends these positions (as long as there are more than 40) every mouse click.

Whether they are actively analyzed, we do not know.

As long as there are more than 40?

40 different mouse pos's?

Time for me to test this... I'll make a script to click on two different coords with 0, 0 randomness. See what I get :)

Kingofptw
03-13-2007, 11:29 PM
Would making a looping bot doing different loops each time would prevent banning?

Geo
03-15-2007, 02:28 AM
sometimes even when after you report soemone you get a random everytime i report a default macro i get mysterious man well most of the time.

almost
03-16-2007, 03:10 PM
I tested to see if repitition would get me banned fast. I made a woodcutter that clicked in the same spot on the tree, then righclicked in my inventory wether there is a log there or not then clicks to drop a log. There was no random clicking spot, exactly the same over and over and moving extremely fast. I set the camera so when the tree is cut it will be clicking in the water and my character won't be walking.
I made it to 62 woodcutting and never got banned :D

Xdk420X
03-22-2007, 04:17 AM
i created a dummie account and did all the things i thought would get me banned like powermining ,autofighters, ignoring randoms, not talking and i even had my friend report me just to see what it would take to get banned and i didnt so then i thought wtf so a few days later i started to kill hillys for a while and i buried a bbone bang i got banned all that and i dont even know why maybe they got to my report iono but hope this helps



what needs to be done is find someone who works for RS and get them to tell us what we need to know :f:

Smartzkid
03-22-2007, 04:23 AM
The banning process is made so they will wait a few days -> a week so you won't be able to pinpoint what script got you banned

regecks
03-22-2007, 09:58 PM
The banning process is made so they will wait a few days -> a week so you won't be able to pinpoint what script got you banned
This is entirely possible, this is was Valve does with VAC2 so people can't determine what exactly got them banned.

Thick As Blood
03-23-2007, 03:16 AM
Well for my input..

I've had one occasion I can remember, where I was running from draynor, to fally, past the chicken pens, and I got a random while running. someone saying "Hey! (name) I need your help!" or something. also, i've had randoms happen as SOON as I logged in on countless occasions. This wasnt like ok name and password, walk around blah blah ut random! It was like, Log into runescape, click the big Play Runescape! button, and then a random appears. I think it was Giles.

I hate randoms. More then anything, ever.

Just a thought.. is there some sort of way to make a java mask to cover the runescape screen, while SCAR is running, to block all mouse clicks and movements? Or would that mask all the Java input and make them more suspcious to as of why there's commands server side but not client.. I just that'd be kinda like how autorune worked, sending commands serverside, but that wouldent be the same case here.


- TAB

legendaryhero90
03-23-2007, 11:13 PM
the banning system is pure F*** in my opinion...

they dont ban those 1000+ autoers with default clothing and are lvl 3

but they ban my 2 mains that i have been working so hard on!??!

wtf is jagex coming to!?!? :fiery:

m0u53m4t
03-26-2007, 07:29 AM
Yeah. They could march to south fally and ban 1k of autoers on the spot, but no, they'd rather ban our mains :mad:

Edfrommars
04-01-2007, 05:16 PM
I found a thread on RuneHQ on "How to spot autoers." Maybe we can use this to make our scripts better?



Reliable Ways to spot an autoer:
1. Keep an eye on the walk that they take to bank. Some Autoers can have 2 different alternating routes. If this is the case, keep a good view on the path(s) that they walk, and see if constantly they are the same.
2. The level of an autoer is generally (Not always - Non-Combat Skill Totalers) level 3 or level 4. I am not saying this is always the case, however, people who use autoer programs are smart not to have their high leveled account on an autoer program, as this can get their main banned.
3. Look for masses of people in the out of reach places. A good example is the Yew Trees near Draynor Castle. In my times of playing, I used to only see one or two people at most. Why? Because it is a spot of yew trees that are probably the most furthest away from a bank. Think of some other out of reach places, which are quite far away from a bank.
4. If you suspect an autoer, and you are a player moderator, or know a player mod who is willing to come by, speak or get them to speak, as many autoers are programmed to log off when the Player Moderator speaks - (This is according to Aierwyn. If this is not true, please tell me). - This Has most probably been confirmed thanks to joe_scmoe68. I have see it with my own eyes - This is confirmed. Thank-You
5. It is possible that some autoers react by running away when whacked with a rubber chicken (This is according to Sir Brendan - If this is not true, please reply)
6. People who have autoer accounts generally tend to have multiple accounts running at once. When they do this, they generally take one username, for example, spretef (Just making up random names), and add numbers like 0001 to the end of it. This means, they have accounts named spretef0001,spretef0002 and so on. Seeing groups of these are most likely considered autoers.

Unreliable Ways to spot an autoer:
1. Many people say talking to a character who is leveling and they arent talking means that the character is automatically an autoer. Just because you talk, either, a) They have been Muted by a Player Moderator, b) They dont want to talk to you, c) They have you on their ignore list, or d) They private chat is turned off.
2. People say that because somebody leveling on a high level tree with a low level axe (like bronze or iron) is automatically an autoer, because they are not using a rune or dragon axe. Maybe they cannot afford a rune axe, and are cutting the trees down to get their money towards one.
3. One way TO NOT distinguish an autoer from others. If they are not wearing any armour, clothing etc. This does not mean they are an autoer. They may just not want to carry the extra weight around while running to bank.

Covert
04-03-2007, 06:32 PM
I have only had 2 bans in my life and I macro all the time. I think you will find this interesting.

Ok so I made a noob account called ***********, I used a feathers buyer that works by clicking coordinates for about 2 days straight. My main gave him around 500K for buying. I continued doing this for about a month. I got banned.

So left my this 25 pure defence noob alone in the dark for 6 months. Then looking at my account list (about 20 account names and passwords for my macroing minions) I went back on and there I was. Unbanned. I still had a message on the account saying I had been perm banned and it was unapealable. But still the account stands :)

The other Ban I got was for password scamming on my main.

Lol, here's the chatlog.

Gorpres:No
**********:I byu ure sheld 250K
Sumother: hYou prollu paswrd scam me
**********: Yea man, don't do it. But even if he does get ur pass you can get it back cus
**********:yui have a recovery question and bank pin.
Sumother:
<End of log>
I appealed the ban saying:

Hey Jagex, I'm pissed 'cause one of your noobie Moderators banned me for password scamming. WTF? Look at the chatlog you have under "Evidence" Nowhere did I ask for any passwords. "

I was unbanned within 15 minutes.

------

I dunno if this helps. But If you download Cheat Engine and put a check on "Speed hack" then play runescape you can rotate the RS screen super fast, when you walk you just magically move forward 3 spaces every second. It speeds up a few other things on RS apart from animation too. I do this alot on my main and I have yet to be banned.

supermormon
04-04-2007, 12:48 AM
i heard somewhere that runescape puts programs on ur comp like spyware to see whats open (scar, autoing programs,etc.) and when u close rs it goes away im not sure if this is true if it is whouldnt it be illegal or in the policies or something idk thought it might help

Smartzkid
04-04-2007, 01:07 AM
i heard somewhere that runescape puts programs on ur comp like spyware to see whats open (scar, autoing programs,etc.) and when u close rs it goes away im not sure if this is true if it is whouldnt it be illegal or in the policies or something idk thought it might help

That'd sorta kinda...ehhh be illegal.

All they can do is what they can do with java

If java could just install stuff on our pc's like that, it wouldn't exist anymore (it's main purpose is security, among a few other things)

supermormon
04-04-2007, 01:44 AM
That'd sorta kinda...ehhh be illegal.

All they can do is what they can do with java

If java could just install stuff on our pc's like that, it wouldn't exist anymore (it's main purpose is security, among a few other things)


i know itd be illegal, but if they put "we will download stuff on your computer and delete when runescape is closed to detect rule breadking" in there terms of use or policy or something it could be legal right?

gnarlz
04-04-2007, 01:04 PM
well heres my story.
ive autoed for STRAIGHT like 72 hours last week at my friends with my main failed at least 16 randoms. 0 blackmarks?
why is this?
i DONT LOG OUT and log back in.
people tell u to take a break every 30 minutes but no. if you go for like straight 24 hour sprints i bet you will get banned less thats my 2 cents

Boreas
04-04-2007, 02:04 PM
If you failed more than 1 random, that means you must have fixed it manually, which means your results are not valid. Also, you get banned a little while after getting caught, so you cant tell what got you banned. Thirdly, if it was a p2p account, they banned less. Wait a while and see if it's still not banned.

gnarlz
04-04-2007, 02:24 PM
i checked though i have no blackmarks.

Sean[714]
04-05-2007, 01:27 AM
Wait a while,
I'm kind of new to autoing, Autoing my pure up.

I do think that things should be changed.
We're not the ones who have 30 accounts all going at the same time, fishing sharks, then selling them for rs gp, and then selling that rs gp for real life money.
THOSE ARE THE PEOPLE WHO SHOULD BE PERM BANNED/IP BLOCKED (if possible),

I also think someoen should try to get statistics on someoen who does that, or, as someoen was talking about before, that chinese bot program. Use that and see how easily you get banned, maybe they've found something we havent.

I also think our scripts should be more lifelike (just an idea, i'm not a scripter myself, i might start but..) Not that they're not already, Master scripters are doign an amazing job, but as JAGEX's programs are getting better, ours should too.
Lets stay on top.

supermormon
04-05-2007, 02:15 PM
i like that chinese bot thing im sure one of use could get a job at on of the sites and find out what we need and make a few bucks in the process

sherlockmeister
04-13-2007, 09:55 PM
In the short time that i have played runescape i have had no less than 25 (26?) accounts banned. Of course i don't actually keep track of how many there are because i don't feel like appealing them (it's useless). In addition to having all of these account banned they happened within 2 days of creation. Now you may be thinking that the reason that all these accounts were banned is because they were macroing non-stop (which they were), but the reason is because they broke rule 1. If nobody here knows, rule 1 is the infamous censor-ship rule. The only reason that i can think they may have been banned is because of their names, which people may or may not have reported, eg. Macro_B_O_T(0-9), Jaggex_H8er(0-9), etc. Now, i'm wondering if maybe my ip adress has been flagged or something? It is definitely unusualy for nearly thirty accounts to be banned in one week. Let me repeat that all of the acounts were banned for rule #1 not macroing. Can i ever create another account again without having it banned? Or is my ip adress permanently banned? If anyone has an explanation for this i would be happy to hear it.

p.s. maybe the accounts from my ip get auto banned and the default reason is rule 1?

krzykiller
04-14-2007, 05:47 PM
Nice it seems to be legit, i dont think I have been banned by scar. Only used starblasters powerskills and sl port sarim...One thing never to do is use a simple mouse recorder bad idea i learned the hard away :duh: haha

lildude4477
04-15-2007, 03:16 AM
runecape is goin to hell lol

lildude4477
04-15-2007, 03:17 AM
were gonna end up finding sumthin that will comunicate to the server like rsc, and rs2 will be shot down :(

WT-Fakawi
04-15-2007, 05:28 PM
I have recently experimented with signed world hopping in combination with UID-deletion. I wish I hadnt, cause we lost three of our very dear Adamant Miners due to FAST SIGNED UID SWITCHING....

I used the DeleteUID command from Divi, which is harmless in itself, but if your Players recieve over 15 unique UID's each hour, appearantly, that in itself is reason enough for Jagex to assume you are autoing. The script I used is pretty flawless, Addy hopping/banking, and all Players had clean records ( o blackmarks), so it couldnt have been the script. It's the switching of UID!!!! That one was new for me, too bad I had to find it out like that.....


P.S.: We need a system that connects (associates) Players with a UID, to avoid UID switching and still enabling fast worldhopping.

Smartzkid
04-15-2007, 05:41 PM
I think it'd be best if we added uid support to playerform and got rid of declarplayers. This would enable the user to easily select a uid for each player, which scar would switch with the uid.dat file everytime that player logged in.

I also think we should make a playermanager - what days do they play most often, what times, how long; mousespeed and stuff like that could also be added

Johura
04-17-2007, 07:36 AM
UID? Is that the file on your pc which helps jagex track all your accounts?

crackkilzu
04-18-2007, 12:24 AM
UID? Is that the file on your pc which helps jagex track all your accounts?

Yes, that's why you delete it.

Yakman
04-18-2007, 09:24 PM
P.S.: We need a system that connects (associates) Players with a UID, to avoid UID switching and still enabling fast worldhopping.

those UID are written in some weird binary stuff that only java can read or write,
so we could write a program (maybe in delphi to use ISM) that moves the UID.dat files around,
so like you have a folder called something like, 'player uids', then every time you change player, it just moves the file and renames it back to uid.dat

Infantry001
04-18-2007, 10:13 PM
THats what i was thinking...lol. That would be a good idea, though.

And Fakawi, that was harsh... i feel sorry for you :(

Rambozin
04-20-2007, 03:32 PM
I auto-fletched for like 8 hours with neG 's autofletcher, i maybe got 1 or 2 randoms..
Note: I solved the randoms by myself, because i was watching most of the time (i was running it on my main) and nop, no ban.

also, after 2 hours, i tryed SB's fletcher and another fletcher, then back to neGs fletcher.

I think we just need more random actions in the script.
Our scripts miss something. Something humans have. I dont know what, but it is there , and Jagex use it..

there should be an autmatic auto responder (a wvery good one, with more then 1000 words, so it will be random) and when someone trades you, it should type a "?" or something .. Most people say hi, or trade you and if you dont respond , they report you

cbris
04-21-2007, 11:38 PM
That thing that humans have and that Jagex watches for is inaccuracy. One of the main features of a "good" macro is that it is fast. A real person is sometimes fast, but will eventually get off course from mining and dropping iron all day. A macro will stop on a color, but a person will ofter overshoot that color and swing the mouse back around to get it. The efficiency of the SCAR scripts to do simple tasks almost perfectly and yet completely fail to respond to a new situation, like randoms, easily separates the really users from the macroers. to solve this, you get the script to do the repetitive part and then call in another person to deal with the unexpected. Do you remember the sleep program in RSC? You would solve the sleep code of another player and then later someone else in the community would solve your sleep code. A network like that one should be implemented again, allowing users to solve the areas that SCAR can not yet handle.

Anyway, thats one way you could fix some problems.

Rambozin
04-24-2007, 06:58 PM
wow, thats a nice text for your first post :p

And yeah, inaccuracy is the thingie i mean :) :p

Macro_FTW
04-29-2007, 01:42 AM
Personally, I've found that you dont get many randoms with a full inventory. Make two level 30's. Use Wt's goblin killer on both. One, have a full inventory of items (probabally axes, picks, bones, etc...), other have nothing in the inventory. Report both for autoing, and have them run for 1 hour. See how many randoms you get. I've found I get 2 on the one with a full inventory, 9 with the one (o.o) with an empty inventory.

kensaurus
05-04-2007, 03:33 AM
this is a very interesting topic!

radioactive_werewolf
05-04-2007, 04:52 PM
The suggestion of an unkown/non existant language is a very good idea indeed if people dont know what your saying they wont(most ppl) try to talk to you again and leave you alone(which results in them NOT reporting you becouse of idiot answers) so ppl could try to build in an auto-response function with an unknown language. That would be a great improvement.

I was thinking exactly the same thing a while back. I didn't care much for the talking in Pentti Multi City Miner & Banker 0.31 so I changed it all to Klingon. I mean seriously you won't find a more obscure and unused language that isn't dead. It was designed by a linguist, has its own grammatical rules, and is really as complex as any language used by normal people. I'm not one of the trekkies that speak Klingon fluently or at all for that matter but you can find a few dozen Klingon phrases with only a brief search of the internet. If somebody wanted to shell out a few bucks for the Klingon dictionary they could make some pretty kickass Klingon phrases.

Hugolord
05-04-2007, 07:22 PM
Does a failed random event trigger a macro report ? (I think they do)

i dont think so and btw when you fail a random i have noticed this especially with the 'Evil Bob' cat random i logged in and instead of having to get him like 5 or 6 fish to end the random i got him one this happened a few times to me.

I think Jagex only bans you if you do automated task repeatedly and if you mouse moves un-humanly like and if u play 24 hours straight on one acc

Monster Hack
05-04-2007, 09:39 PM
those UID are written in some weird binary stuff that only java can read or write,
so we could write a program (maybe in delphi to use ISM) that moves the UID.dat files around,
so like you have a folder called something like, 'player uids', then every time you change player, it just moves the file and renames it back to uid.dat

Or just rewrite the UID hacks used in RS2 Clients for the new engines.
Run that to associate write a new UID and associate it with the players.
A Delphi + Java effort.

(just an idea)

-Mh

tythus
05-12-2007, 09:12 PM
Fakawi. I believe you have to modify the client in order to tell if your account is flagged. You used to be able to tell if your account is flagged by using the modified clients, but i believe jagex has made it so if you are using a modified client then you are automatically flagged so it would be pointless to check. Either that or they have changed their flagging procedure.

I Found Out That For Every 10 Clicks The Client Sends A Packet Which Says Its The Right Client (They Change It But I Don't Know How Often) But If You Don't Send The Right Ones They Know From The Word Go That Thats Not There Client... :duh: :( :mad: :duh: :( :mad: :duh: :(

Destroy Macintosh
05-16-2007, 01:51 AM
lol looks like u need a mole working at jagex to tell how it works so you can save some thinking time and spend it more on scripting. lol

:P :p

wired16
05-16-2007, 02:45 AM
that person would get into TONS of legal troubleif they got cuaght kbut that is a good idea..lol anyone want to volunteer(sp) lol

Vicious
05-17-2007, 01:44 AM
I'm not exactly where it was said, but somewhere someone said that you couldn't get randoms when moving. Well, I just got one. Genie. Don't know how much this helps with anything, I'm guessing not alot.

SmAcKmE
05-26-2007, 03:26 AM
my main was banned for 3 years but i was just suddenly able to log on one day...... i was banned for macroing but to tell the truth i didnt start macroing till about a mounth ago -.-

tjbarrett
05-28-2007, 01:17 AM
maybe they review old cases with the newer technology they get so they saw that you really werent and so they let your account go

Hugolord
06-03-2007, 10:44 AM
honestly to make this info more stable we should run some tests make a new account lv 200 and report him while he is mining with a scar script see the effect if he gets banned or not? :rolleyes:

!!1one!eleven1!
06-03-2007, 11:47 AM
While training magic by teleporting to camelot i got banned because i had 3 randoms which i did not answer.

I was training legit, just clicking on the teleport icon as fast as i could. Got the dwarf random, kept teleporting because it would be funny watching him through rocks while i teleported, 2 minutes later i get the plant random, again hes chasing me while i teleport, next i got another random (forgot which) again hes chasing me, i was typing "lol" etc as it was a laugh, people around me laughing as well.

about 3 days later banned.


I have recently experimented with signed world hopping in combination with UID-deletion. I wish I hadnt, cause we lost three of our very dear Adamant Miners due to FAST SIGNED UID SWITCHING....

I used the DeleteUID command from Divi, which is harmless in itself, but if your Players recieve over 15 unique UID's each hour, appearantly, that in itself is reason enough for Jagex to assume you are autoing. The script I used is pretty flawless, Addy hopping/banking, and all Players had clean records ( o blackmarks), so it couldnt have been the script. It's the switching of UID!!!! That one was new for me, too bad I had to find it out like that.....


P.S.: We need a system that connects (associates) Players with a UID, to avoid UID switching and still enabling fast worldhopping.

I use a personal client which deletes my uid every time its created, i regularly pk and sometimes switch worlds 15 times in under 20 minutes so i dont think its what got you banned.

Even if it were the case why not create a program/scar plugin to put your own ID's into the uid.dat based on which character you use, it would be very easy and maybe stop chain banning + the above.

Vicious
06-03-2007, 07:32 PM
While training magic by teleporting to camelot i got banned because i had 3 randoms which i did not answer.
At times I've been paranoid about getting banned while doing massive grinding. I always wanted to make a lvl 3 and chop wood with it to see if I could ban myself without breaking any rules and without macroing. lol

I wonder how many people in total have lost their mains because of suspicious botlike behavior.

!!1one!eleven1!
06-03-2007, 11:25 PM
Makes me think, next time should i answer the random or kill it? i know some people like to kill randoms for there drops, but this could also look like your not answering it.

Also i just today i got the security guard random, didnt know what to do as i have never seen him before so i just left click him, started attacking so i ran off, came back and fished for about 5 minutes and i get him again, not thinking i left click again and run off, then about 3 minutes i get him again then i finally talk to him and i didnt get randoms for like 20 mins.

Stevee
06-04-2007, 02:05 AM
yeah..

Stevee
06-15-2007, 07:10 PM
if u wana ban the frikin gay rsdemon users, just go to falador yews and right click everwhwere so u can see the names of the ppls. then u ban and if it sends the code or whatever, jagex can seel all of the players u clicked, even though u only reported one player. this is a good way to build up trust with your account and i personally do this everytime before i start autoing just to try to get a small measure of trust with these jagex blockheads. idk if what i do helps lower suspicion at all, but using an autofighter with chickens to get ur lvl to 20 in an hour, then autoing will help the the ppls banning u cuz ur not a lvl 3.

botmaster
06-25-2007, 12:59 PM
We'd need someone to go to Jagex and rip a copy of their server code to figure out antibans. Or just simply hire a cracker to hack one of the servers. Maybe it's possible with directory jumping or XSS. Haven't tried, as it's illegal.

But if we got a functioning, nonobfuscated, commented version of their code... LOL. I'd crack up so badly.

Oh, and meanwhile: How about making a copy of the Jagex client in memory and analyzing it using a bayesian filter (everytime you get a random, WHAT happens on the software level). I know for sure that Jagex isn't allowed to record mouse movement or clicks, and uses event-based data to figure out where the mouse is. The key is packet editing!

stay bombin
06-26-2007, 11:46 PM
well, my main got banned for rl purchase of rs currency. how..i dont know? when i got the money delivered i had it on my nub miner z neon z, and then used my sisters laptop to get the money off z neon z. they said i was caught and they had evidence but how can that put me to the money? my "sister" gave me the money. and z neon z got banned for it which i figured what would happen and is why i put the money on mcp. they say if u buy gp then u get banned 90%+ of the time. but there is a solution i do believe. buy the money opn a lvl 3 you made or w\e <--he gets banned for sure but trade the money to one of ur legit accounts or give it to a trusted friend then your friend gives it to you. then you trade it to another friend then he gives it back to you on a completely different guy, so the money has been through a lot of hands.

!!1one!eleven1!
06-27-2007, 12:51 AM
I know for sure that Jagex isn't allowed to record mouse movement or clicks

err its been proven that they do? every 50ms or something.

Giga
06-27-2007, 04:29 PM
I'm not sure about this, but some time ago I was at a friend's house and he was playing runescape. He was near the hobgob's yews I believe (near rimmington? Kinda having a blank lol), were people sometimes drop yew logs in a path leading the bots to hobdoom. Well, they were all level 3 and stuff, so he said they were macros and started reporting them all, with a 30 or 60 sec interval between each I think... Reports have some interval inbetween. So well, after a time, we saw randoms appearing to some of them we reported, in ORDER, but with some missing! So my theory is, that reporting someone dramatically increases the chances of them getting a random. And this is a true story, now whether it was pure coincidence or the fact the reports were made, I don't know...

Just Kidding
07-03-2007, 01:51 PM
So my theory is, that reporting someone dramatically increases the chances of them getting a random. And this is a true story, now whether it was pure coincidence or the fact the reports were made, I don't know...


Reporting someone for macro alerts the jagex detection sytem to monitor that player "more closely" It does not send a report to jagex. Jagex never sees macro reports so dont think youll get mod for reporting them. And there is no false report for macros either.

So yes you are right that it gave them more randoms. Thats what it does plus it monitors those players more closely than the average player whos not been reported. In their words if they monitored every player the same way it would use too much system resources. Thats the reason you want to blend in when your cheating. You dont wanna be reported.

On the runescape forums if your a player mod theres a whole forum that other players cant see that things like this are discussed and jagex mods interact and discuss things with you. They dont give out any intimate details but just a vague idea of whats going on. They keep player mods in the blind too just give them a little bit of info but theres alot of intelligent people on the pmod forums who figure the stuff out though.

TravisV10
07-03-2007, 06:13 PM
My guess is that if you get a random, and fail to do it, pmods are appointed to where you were. If a pmod talks to you, and you dont respond. You will get banned. Also, I bet if you get reported for macroing and you don't do a random, you will get banned. I have just recently checked all of my accounts for black marks. 0/10 for ALL! :D

I also think that having mods sent to your area has to do with the mouse movements and how often you do the same things.


Summary:
What sets of baning:
-Failed Randoms
-Mods talking and no respond
-Mouse movements
-Repeating the same thing over and over

Just Kidding
07-03-2007, 09:12 PM
My guess is that if you get a random, and fail to do it, pmods are appointed to where you were. If a pmod talks to you, and you dont respond. You will get banned. Also, I bet if you get reported for macroing and you don't do a random, you will get banned. I have just recently checked all of my accounts for black marks. 0/10 for ALL! :D

I also think that having mods sent to your area has to do with the mouse movements and how often you do the same things.


Summary:
What sets of baning:
-Failed Randoms
-Mods talking and no respond
-Mouse movements
-Repeating the same thing over and over

No they dont appoint mods to an area. Mods are basically in game to mute offensive members or scammers that are causing serious problems. They are not really there to tackle marco abuse. But they are much more educated in macro abuse than the average players because the pmod forums.

Mods play the game like everyone else and have no requirment to do anything but that. They just ask that you play the game as normal and report abuse as you see it. They take it upon themselves to tackle bots in groups quite often.

Random Hero
07-10-2007, 01:10 AM
Hello. I used to be a fan of RuneScape for two years. It began to bore me and so I stopped playing it for real. Recently I began autoing. Then I found out about this site. Then I found this thread :)

After reading quite a few posts I must tell you this: failed Random Events do not automatically trigger anything special. I would use a powerminer and I got a countless number of these annoying events. I just checked my offenses and I have 0.

Smartzkid
07-10-2007, 01:14 AM
Just curious, how long ago did you use this powerminer?

They often wait 1-2 weeks before doing anything, that way, you can't pinpoint what it is that you did wrong

Jason2gs
07-10-2007, 01:54 AM
My guess is that if you get a random, and fail to do it, pmods are appointed to where you were. If a pmod talks to you, and you dont respond. You will get banned.

*Bursts out laughing*

:p

Like Justkidding said. Mods are only there to "keep the peace." They don't (well, they're not supposed to) go out hunting for abusers; they just keep an eye out for them, and mute when they can.

They're not some secret Jagex-Spies. They're just normal, run-of-the-mill losers :)

mamoth95
07-10-2007, 02:08 AM
well here is wat i know...

repitition triggers randoms very fast back before i used scar i used an autobot thing with no anti randoms or antiban and i got randoms ever 5 min it seemed like.


also wat i know is that it takes about 3 or 4 days to get banned ive actually tested this and its true so if u auto and notice the next day the script stinks you can just get everything off it and put it on a diff acc.

what i do is after autoing i take everything of the acc and drop it to my main only leaveing wat it is i need to auto with such as a pic that way if i get banned i only wasted my time. Also im trying to become a p mod and if i do i will make a thread and tell u everything the p mods know that we dont and if anyone on here already is a p mod they need to start dishing out the info!

Jason2gs
07-10-2007, 04:05 PM
what i do is after autoing i take everything of the acc and drop it to my main

Drop, as in drop trade? That right there is what will get you banned, mate. Never drop trade anything between accounts. It's much safer to multi-log. One account gets on signed, one on unsigned, and then you meet each other in game. Simple.

mamoth95
07-10-2007, 05:10 PM
No actually ive gotten banned doing that ive found that drop trading is the only safe method i do it constantly havent gotten one acc banned ive been doing it for like 2 months

Jason2gs
07-11-2007, 01:10 AM
Did you delete your UIDs before logging your accounts in?

Suit yourself, I guess, but just about everyone here will agree that multilogging is the safest way to transfer goods.

mamoth95
07-11-2007, 05:13 PM
lol no i never deleted my uid didnt know i could until a few weeks ago. but anyways what i got banned for was buying money online even though i wasent they scaneed the trade and it looked like i was getting sometin for notin and jagex is stupid and automates everything nothing is humanly done anymore.

Rikje
07-22-2007, 07:53 PM
about the getting random part.
''to fast skill swithing''?

this is one of those ''instand random'' tricks.
have a litte fight with npc for like 15min. then take something you had as loot and high or low algh it. tada random. it works 100% when you use range save spotting.

Lalaji
07-24-2007, 11:58 AM
I think this test has been made and provened.

Spend 1 hour : Not doing anything. On one of your good players. a players without any blk marks. Count the randoms you get.

And then spend the next hour on a player with 7-9 blk marks. not doing anything on the same place, count how many randoms he gets.

The second player will have about 3 time more randoms then the first player...

q3ick
08-11-2007, 07:10 PM
Personly from what I have experienced Jagex bans on repetitive mouse movements/repeated errors made. So if i messed a script up just a little and clicked somewhere unique i got banned, I also believe that if your character does alot of moonwalking it triggers randoms and gets your account flagged.

CheetahNub
08-12-2007, 12:03 AM
Try this:

1.Do anything where you don't need much inventory space(merchanting, alching etc.)
2.Put 20 bones in your inventory.
3.Bury a set of bones every 5 mins(try to be as exact as possible)

The result?
Maybe 3 out of 5 bones give you a random event, even on 100% legit accs(lol this also an easy way to get all the random items :D).

So I think that the randoms are often triggered by actions related to the items in your inventory, and how "bot-like" you are(for example burying bones exactly every 5 mins, without any random delays)

south-west-trains
08-13-2007, 06:45 PM
look fakawi, If this is happening, and they are running our code through there systems, It is time for us to take action. We need more technology, Something to interact with scar at the java level... Kricheskoys hybrid. We need to start helping him test it, getting him whatever he needs to get it out asap. If they pass through our code, lets pass through theres. An Eye for an Eye. This has gone too far fawk, We will be resorting to lvl 3's again if we let this stand without taking some action.

You need to bear in mind though that any Jagex employees can look at these forums and find out any circumvention ideas. So it is not wise to list them in public.

///SWT///

mamoth95
08-15-2007, 05:01 PM
well heres what i just figured out you should always to before transfering stuff to another accont. It takes jagex about 5 days to ban you for macroing/buying money online and if they ban/give u a black mark they flag the items they found u macroing to get then they ban any acc that goes to instantly transfering stuff is now worth 10 black marks trust me i got banned on all my accs. So what u do is waith 5 or 6 days after macroing to see if u get banned or blackmarked and if u dont then drop trade it over trust me if your thinking well what if i get perm banned before i get it to my main then i just waisted my time then your wrong cuz its not worth it to have your main banned.

anil
09-24-2007, 02:07 PM
Well, i use to chop yews on this level 3 wc pure, and train my main at the same time, ie multiloggin before i discovered scar
it wears pretty plain stuff and i rarely talk on it but i just checked it has zero black marks, i've multilogged on this acc for almost a year, now its 89 wc and still 3 combat

and i have this fishing pure, which is level 10, i pay less attention to this when i multilogg and i've failed a couple random events (like getting teled to lumby by sandwich lady or one of those old man ones), but i checked and it still has no black marks. again i've played on this for a while (over 7 months)

so i gues runescape can detect autos coz of the repetitive clicks, and perhaps the lack of talkin etc

also its funny that someone thot i was an auto coz i was wearin random event clothing instead of stuff from holiday events (some other lvl 3 was wearing the chicken suit or something)
that guy assumed that if i wore holiday event clothing then it must mean the charac's been around for longer and not an auto coz they get banned easily and don't last so long (general assumption by noobs)

so perhaps it'd help to do holiday events and wear those clothes? then people would report less coz they won't think ur a macro

ckeboss
09-24-2007, 03:21 PM
umm, black marks are not flags... you can have no blackmarsk and still have your account flaged for macoing activity... i think a man thing on watching my macro alot is walking. it walks, and waits for the flag to stop... i think this gets accounts banned fast...

Lokito
09-24-2007, 04:14 PM
The problem is really simple. How does a scar scripter implement strong anti-ban code into their script while allowing the script to retain its usefulness and efficiency? You have to make a compromise between safety and effectiveness. What's the use of a really safe script if it doesn't get results?

Based on my experience, I think occasionally logging characters out (even though it's very simple, I know) is very important to not getting banned.

ckeboss
09-24-2007, 10:48 PM
Procedure LogOutIn;
Begin
Logout;
Wait(40000+random(20000));
Login;
End;

Like that? lol

Lokito
09-24-2007, 11:57 PM
Procedure LogOutIn;
Begin
Logout;
Wait(40000+random(20000));
Login;
End;

Like that? lol

Sure. I've thought about this more, and in order to not sound as dumb, I'm going to try to explain myself more. Jagex probably stores login information in one of two ways:
1) they log how many hours/minutes out of x hours/minutes you've been logged on in the past x amount of time. (for instance, you logged in 5 times in a day, and spent a total of 10 hours playing - this is read as 10 hours in the past *x* amount of time). However, I doubt they would do it this way, because such information isn't the most reliable to determine if someone's autoing.

Number 2)
The log in page you get when you first sign on tells you how long ago it was since you last logged in. Since this is a known fact, it seems logical to me that Jagex stores log in information by session. If you're logged in continuously for many hours, it's obvious that you're autoing. If you just break up auto sessions with short intervals that don't really inhibit you from doing whatever you want to do, Jagex probably won't even know the difference. So if you're running a miner/banker like Wizzup?'s ess miner, which requires the character to start at the bank, you write as part of the script a log out feature that will log you out at the end of a run, inside the bank. Once you auto log back in, the script can pick up from the beginning and continue.

takeout
09-28-2007, 12:33 PM
i think when jagex updated the autoing system 4 months ago they added somthing which tracks normal trades on the same ip, i used signed and unsigned applet to transuf items (traded stuff back of cource), when the update came out and i continued doing it 1 week later........BANNED :( here is what it said








Offence Type: Permanent Ban Offence Date: 15-Mar-2007
Evidence for this offence:
This account had been banned as it has received items gained from macroing on
another account.

Transferring items between accounts you own is in itself breaking Rule 8 rega
rdless of how they were obtained.


We have confirmed beyond doubt that this occurred using our detailed records
of activity within the game.

You have been deemed to be in complete control at the time of the incident.





appeal were declined within 20 seconds :(

ckeboss
09-28-2007, 11:04 PM
well, i have been trading my macroed goods to a mule... hope nothing happens

Aser
10-01-2007, 03:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eludis
Someone awhile back (Can't remember who) told me that when you send an abuse report, what's going on in your java client (Seeing what your seeing) is recorded for like a minute or something...Now I dunno if it's true but if it is that kinda sucks. That means they can see everything your doing, while you do it, for an entire minute and you would never know...I dunno how they knew this though, may have just been a rumour. Just thought I would contribute.
Note: This is completely true. When you report abuse the PAST 20-60 seconds of activity is sent with the report so Jagex can confirm the abuse. It's a fail-safe against false reporting. That is why player-reports bring so many bans.

That would require a massive database... If it acctually is true is say we all create accounts, make a bot to report random people, and overload them.:)

EDIT: I am about to find the owners of all these people botting with lvl 3 nubs and back hand
the hell out of them

Dahlriku
10-05-2007, 11:24 PM
You need to bear in mind though that any Jagex employees can look at these forums and find out any circumvention ideas. So it is not wise to list them in public.

///SWT///

actualy, if you make the front page a statement that anyone afiliated in jagex as a employie or family member there of that it is illegal for them to view this website,

i forget the format for it and what you need to say but its part of the internet privacy act.

bink830
10-06-2007, 07:39 PM
i must be lucky... ive gotten a couple of the sargeant damien or w/e
the training camp randoms a couple times using Hy71194's FightCaveRunner
i was there for about 7 hours on 2 occasions... no bans, yet
lvl 97. i'd be sad if he got banned

Harry
10-06-2007, 07:43 PM
i must be lucky... ive gotten a couple of the sargeant damien or w/e
the training camp randoms a couple times using Hy71194's FightCaveRunner
i was there for about 7 hours on 2 occasions... no bans, yet
lvl 97. i'd be sad if he got banned

You got that random and it did not logout..? :o I better check it out..

mark9510
10-09-2007, 12:12 AM
how can u log your chatlogs someone please pm me how

Psychor
10-14-2007, 10:02 AM
2 Weeks ago i wrote my own mining/banker script, i didn't bother to include any Anti-Ban procedure.

About Random events, i've noticed that i get them every 4-5 loads and for now allways at the mining spot.
Results for the random events:
- 3 failed gaschecks (which leads to exploding rock)
- 1 failed freaky forester (which teleported me somewhere)
- 2 dragon in classroom random (don't remember the name) i had to do myself
All the rest of the randoms where succesfully handled by the scripts.

The script does take a 15-20 minute break every 2-3 hours, and sometimes an hour break. It took my mining from lvl65 to lvl80 and until now no blackmarks on my account.

So:
- or we give them way to mutch credit and they mostly rely on other player reports, cause it's mostly not crowded where i mine, so less chance of being reported.
- or i'm gone get a huge ban in the comming few days, i'll let you know if it does.

nefar
10-20-2007, 08:54 PM
actualy, if you make the front page a statement that anyone afiliated in jagex as a employie or family member there of that it is illegal for them to view this website,

i forget the format for it and what you need to say but its part of the internet privacy act.

I'm sure they are worried about breaking the sites TOS as much as I'm worried about breaking theirs.

julian0
10-24-2007, 10:59 AM
Thx for the tip.

Belt
12-02-2007, 07:09 PM
To trade and avoid getting banned, I usually have one account on a VM and the other on my computer. This is the same as having to separate computers trading, right?

Hugolord
12-02-2007, 07:25 PM
To trade and avoid getting banned, I usually have one account on a VM and the other on my computer. This is the same as having to separate computers trading, right?

depends if you;re using bridged networking or not...

Infidel00
12-04-2007, 10:20 PM
2 Weeks ago i wrote my own mining/banker script, i didn't bother to include any Anti-Ban procedure.

About Random events, i've noticed that i get them every 4-5 loads and for now allways at the mining spot.
Results for the random events:
- 3 failed gaschecks (which leads to exploding rock)
- 1 failed freaky forester (which teleported me somewhere)
- 2 dragon in classroom random (don't remember the name) i had to do myself
All the rest of the randoms where succesfully handled by the scripts.

The script does take a 15-20 minute break every 2-3 hours, and sometimes an hour break. It took my mining from lvl65 to lvl80 and until now no blackmarks on my account.

So:
- or we give them way to mutch credit and they mostly rely on other player reports, cause it's mostly not crowded where i mine, so less chance of being reported.
- or i'm gone get a huge ban in the comming few days, i'll let you know if it does.

Interested to see what happens to the account.

After reading all these stories and thoughts on banning it pretty much scares me to auto on my main.

Something to think about though; I often run and have been for the past three weeks, VEM and Masterkill's PC script for at least five to seven hours each a day and there has been no blackmarks or anything on any of my accounts. Although all the accounts I am using are six years old or pures from about five years ago that have bunny ears/scythe and pking stats. Some even have a bunch of free quests completed as well. Do you think this helps contribute to them not being banned by the fact that they are veterans to RS? Or am I just lucky?

Putnam
12-22-2007, 02:15 AM
while I was testing my powercutting script, 2 randoms appeared within 10 seconds of eachother ending, and i avoided both, then it said in my chat log :

I appears that you have been telling someone your password.
please change it to someting more obscure

(or is that their way of saying' stop autoing, you mother ****er!')

lol

am i right?

Diabolical
12-22-2007, 03:08 AM
Putnam, i have never heard of that?

Are you sure?

Can anyone else back this up?

[S]paz
12-22-2007, 03:15 AM
randoms = flagged i think
and that norm comes up when u try to type ur pass. idk bout that one

~Spaz

outtamyhouse1
12-28-2007, 09:44 PM
how can u log your chatlogs someone please pm me how too!!!!!!!!!!!!!

footballjds
01-04-2008, 05:56 AM
while I was testing my powercutting script, 2 randoms appeared within 10 seconds of eachother ending, and i avoided both, then it said in my chat log :

I appears that you have been telling someone your password.
please change it to someting more obscure

(or is that their way of saying' stop autoing, you mother ****er!')

lol

am i right?

no.... you must have talked. like if your pass is stupid. and you said "blahblah is such a stupid person" then it would block it, jackex :fiery: blocks your pass/

ChrisX
01-28-2008, 01:08 AM
A mule i made was banned today using ChickenKiller. He was sent to Leo random then he got the Message Center Disabled Account right after. Im guessing someone reported me then i was sent there by a mod to see if he could perform the random. He dint. Then Banned.

Hurgymcgurgygurg
02-11-2008, 11:28 PM
An odd thing I am noticing on my legit main...


Whenever I put in 5+ hours hunting Red Chins in a day, any time after that when I world hop, the first box I attempt to set down triggered a random 50%-75% of the time.

I found this odd for a few reasons.

1. Go to the Srl Junior Member's Scripts forum, there is not a single hunter script.

2. There is a pretty evident link to 5 hours, and excessive world hopping...

3. A random in the first 30 seconds is pretty rare right?

Main
02-27-2008, 07:53 AM
After reading some of the KEY post in this thread, this is what i think:


#1 the more black mark (rule 7) you have, the chance of getting random will increas DRAMATICLY!!!.
(REAL)For Example:
my 97 was perm banned last year (4 black mark from rule 1, and 10 from rule 7), and i got it back this year with 8 black mark, and then i got a .5 from rule 7, and got it back few days ago, and yesterday morning (am Est), i was hacking dense jungle, and I COULD NOT BELIVE the number of randoom i got! i hack 2-4 swing, boom!! an snake, and i killed it (adds fav), and few more swings later, i got a woodooman, and it kept on reapeating NONSTOP(as if mods are doing this on PURPOSE!), an then i stoped at 60%(my arm's big adventure) and guess what happend after my arm's DA RUMBA? my rs screen stoped and "Connection losted, Please waite...blah...."(if you didn't know, my internet IS connected, they do that if they think you are autoing)

#2 (* FEW PARTS UNVERIFYED*)
back in the day where lvl 3 item scammers dominated VWB,and because if some one reported you for item scamming, the reporter NEEDS to have the (2) trade request on the scammer and the reporter's chat, so some scammer have long name and short pass so they can log out and back in so the reporter's request would be stopped, but now, jagex is able to check your previouse trades after you log out, but! i've been around here and there and even experienced my self that, jagex can also check the previouse conversation/*ACTIVITY* you did after you re log in(maby the .dats have something to do with it/not?).


thats it for now,(I am typing on my wii, so pardon my spacing...etc)

marzey
02-27-2008, 09:19 AM
We should start wow autoing somehow ?

HellBoyz
02-29-2008, 02:46 AM
you can still stay in course unless you don't know how to stay safe...

verybigkitty
03-06-2008, 10:11 PM
I think that people logging out at certain randoms sets off alarms.

But they dont have proof. I want to know if they need indisputable evidence, or just circumstantial evidence.

test
03-20-2008, 06:56 PM
Okay. After reading everything in this forum..I have some information. My autoed, was banned for 10 days for rule 7 (Modified client). He is in the "yellow zone". However, he does not get randoms often. In fact, my legit player gets more. I have some 100% tested ways to pretty much stop your account from getting banned.


1. Make sure you occasionally play legit.
After failing a random, this is essential. I have no idea if failing a random triggers extra watching or something similar, but it's good to be safe. After autoing for long periods of time, make sure you do some legit playing preferably not doing the same thing.

2. "Someone else had my account"
I have not seen anything on this in this forum, however it does work if done right. When creating a character, do it at someone else's house. Then play on that account/macro. If you where to get banned, simply go to this person's house and say..someone else had my account on the appeal. I tested this, and it saved an account. So if you plan on making any other accounts, do this. It might not work 100%, only been tested once.

KoKouKo
03-20-2008, 11:07 PM
Getting and failing a random doesn't ban you, I've died many times to randoms and I've only been banned once and that was for being in an endless loop , while fletching. IMO a failed random doesn't mean ban.

Fagex will ban you even if they have unstable evidence. I personally know somebody who has never autoed, but was banned for much.

@ Test
The second point you made is very good, but you could make the account using a proxy, which would be just as effective, unless that proxy's IP changes (if I'm completely wrong I'm sorry I only have a limited amount of knowledge about proxies).

There are many other things you could do about banned accounts, a few of which being the;
Suicide Card,
Hacked Card,
Drunk Card,
Race Card,
or the type random things because you get answered by a machine anyways.

test
03-21-2008, 12:21 AM
Getting and failing a random doesn't ban you, I've died many times to randoms and I've only been banned once and that was for being in an endless loop , while fletching. IMO a failed random doesn't mean ban.

Fagex will ban you even if they have unstable evidence. I personally know somebody who has never autoed, but was banned for much.

@ Test
The second point you made is very good, but you could make the account using a proxy, which would be just as effective, unless that proxy's IP changes (if I'm completely wrong I'm sorry I only have a limited amount of knowledge about proxies).

There are many other things you could do about banned accounts, a few of which being the;
Suicide Card,
Hacked Card,
Drunk Card,
Race Card,
or the type random things because you get answered by a machine anyways.
I doubt a proxy would work with that. Unless you can get the same IP you created it on..keep it mind that if your friend changes his ISP this will not work. It also helps if you recover the account on that IP then say someone else had my account. I am pretty sure you could go on and do this forever, thus making an unbannable account!

paul82587
06-06-2008, 07:55 AM
in 2nd level in stronghold of security, when you are fighting night crawler and zombie, you get a LOT of evil twins random sometimes within a minute. I found out about this while playing legit.

luke
07-23-2008, 04:19 PM
I think that they see that there are players gaining apid amount of exp in what go with out taking normal breaks, so i think that what triggers the suspision

bukowski
07-23-2008, 11:56 PM
eventually we will figure out a solution for not getting banned.

halomod9
07-29-2008, 02:45 AM
I think Jagex is cutting back on their monitoring...

lolislol
08-01-2008, 11:03 PM
Repetitive doings and routines (Play 6+ hours a day like a week and do the same thing) will make you look suspicious.
And also the banning system, i think, works like this:

1. You auto in piece for the first moments...(not logging out)
2. You are doing it over and over again until 20 minutes has passed, then you get the old man random (or anything other solvable).
3. If you solve it you will get a new random soon, but, if you fail it, you might get to piece for a moment, OR become suspicious (Old man failing is worst to happen, as it's so easy random event)
4.If you become suspicious (fail a random) you should just go back and continue your doing a while, then logout, if you logout straight after failing, it's pretty suspicious and you will get an instant ban maybe.
(2 - 4 is a test to check if the player is suspicious)

5. Now, if you solved it, you will get a new random soon, and if you solve it too, you will get a new random over and over again, BUT if you've had like 20 randoms, autoed for like 6+ hours, done the same routine all the time and then fail a random, you will get banned for sure. But if you are wise, you should include a relogger in your scripts which logs out for like 1 - 3 minutes every 10 - 20 minutes so you do not get randoms.

6. If you auto for a long long time without getting randoms (like 5 hours stay all the time logged in no randoms, same routine) and your script is a really detectable one, you have been noticed and jagex doesn't have to test you, you will get banned if you continue that for longer.

7. If a player reports you, the same test will occur, just with a smaller pace, so there are randoms popping every 10 minutes.
If this happens you should go and do something else for a while, because, if you fail a random at that moment :duh: you will almost always get banned.

Also, the wearing of at least 4 cloth parts doesn't make you look so suspicious
as just wearing a one good item etc. Rune scim, rune axe...

NOTE: It's also suspicious if you have 1 skill high (65+) and no other stats at all.

randy marsh
08-02-2008, 10:53 AM
I'm sure the Jagex staff and/or spys amongst us can give a nice explanation of how and why people are banned, but then again, that wouldn't be too smart seeing that they'd be exposing themselves that way...

So, I'll share some of what i know, think or suspect... ;)

Random events are often triggered by suspicous behavior like standing in a place for a long period of time and still moing your mouse over the screen sometimes not to log out...
Of course alot of macroing has very suspicious behaviour and therefor macroers get random events alot more often than legit players.
I think that when random events kill a character who showed suspicious behaviour while handling the random is logged specially in case of further signs indication that this is a macroer.

Then for the banning part...
Basically every suspisious behaviour could get logged, building up a profile of a character and in case that the evidence of macroing is clear enough the character in question would be banned. Of course they won't go banning everyone that fast...
But, people get flagged after a certain amount of this suspicious behaviour and then they are monitored more closely.
Upto know macroing has been dealth with very severe, if it is discovered that an account is macroing it will without any doubt be perm banned.
Some people manage to retrieve accounts by writing bann appeals, there is often talk about wether jagex like buttkissing appeals, tragic apeals, ... which if you ask me is complete bullshit. These appeals are mostlikely dealth with by different persons and therefor it doesn't matter what kind of appeal you write because the person who's going to read it will deal with it in an objective way.
There have however been cases of macroing accounts being unbanned after a certain period of time while they had a perm ban, why exactly this happens is a mystery.

Now the short version:
If you macro, you get banned, live with it.


So what your saying is thats its pointless to auto?

Camaro'
08-02-2008, 02:27 PM
look fakawi, If this is happening, and they are running our code through there systems, It is time for us to take action. We need more technology, Something to interact with scar at the java level... Kricheskoys hybrid. We need to start helping him test it, getting him whatever he needs to get it out asap. If they pass through our code, lets pass through theres. An Eye for an Eye. This has gone too far fawk, We will be resorting to lvl 3's again if we let this stand without taking some action.

Fire vs Fire, i agree with avaphi.

Main
08-09-2008, 09:15 AM
why don't we just get some guy to go work in jagex as spy? we'll pay him extra via donations ( I know I will donate)

Waddo
08-09-2008, 01:06 PM
Ok if the banning system is automated then something must be in the client maybe there is a hook we can watch it might start at 5 or something and count down depending on things you do maybe -1 every 10 mins -1 for clicking same coord or something along them lines when it reaches 0 you get a random
and if the random i failed you might get a -1 from another number and when that gets to 0 it sends in an error report or something alongthem lines


so basically my idea is that there might be some variable in the client wecan track

Timer
08-09-2008, 02:51 PM
I lost 5 (!) of my Premium Players this week. All on the Lumbridge Swamp Miner. It is a severe blow. Five addyminers/mithsmelters. I had trained them for nearly a year. And now, after I release my swampminer, bang, banning spree.

hm.

Three explanations:


1. Jagex has a SCAR-Script Import Module. It analyzes the script, and compares it to stored "previous records", resulting in instant ban.
2. Flagged. The Players (most of them born around the same date) "auto" threshold was filled up. Simply to much, always running two or three scripts on the same spot... No fun, just pure routine these Players where (When I retire I will ask Them how they did it :) )
3. A mole moderator* runs the Script, understands the pathing and goews hunting :) Though my ChatLogs do not reveal any moderator, so unless silent reporting is the norm nowadays......



Regarding the Flags. I remember Arayn had the Ability to see if your account was Flagged. Do we still have that ability? I'd be really interesting to know where my other Player are standing.....

* I am sure there are moles all over the place. Naive to think otherwise. We will never find out. A quick mail from an eager youngster applying for runescape moderatorship maybe, who knows. It is inevatible. It is part of the game...

I'm working on that now, to see if your account is flagged or not.

Plus, I have a Theory on how they get 'suspicious' game playing... While on tutorial island, they record, How long you hold down your mouse... (average), How fast you normally move your mouse... (average), How steady you move your mouse... (average), and how fast you respond to people... (average).
Then on the first week of game play, the record how 'focused' you are on a task, and how clumbsy you are... (breaking axes on ents, begging for money).

Yet, I believe they also use Accounts to the same I.P. address to compare.

Summary, If you use the macroing account "macroing only"... All its life, then your fine, ever wonder why Mains get banned before autoers? :p

randy marsh
08-09-2008, 09:50 PM
Well think of a 1000 people using the same script surely there can work out that its a bit funny that 1000 people are doing the exact same as each other?

kensaurus
10-09-2008, 04:26 PM
fletched at pest control and took sleep every random 2-3 hours...
no random there and i dun understand why i got banned LOll

Mjordan
10-11-2008, 11:14 PM
fletched at pest control and took sleep every random 2-3 hours...
no random there and i dun understand why i got banned LOll
You answered your own question, nobody in their right mind could fletch for 2-3 hours straight with just a lil break in between. You should take like a 20 minute break every 45 minutes or so.

Blender
10-25-2008, 11:47 PM
This may sound strange, but I used Advanced Key and Mouse Recorder to auto before I found out about SCAR. I let it run for two days and I had not even one offense. It clicked on the same 3 places for 2 days. There must be "auto hotspots" where randoms occur more often and you have a higher chance of being banned there. They never happen in lumby, but in varrock mine, I got 7 randoms in 10 minutes by playing. It can't be that complicated...

yvw master
10-27-2008, 06:31 PM
I haven't read this entire thread yet so I'm sorry if this has been said and/or brought up. We assume Jagex knows more than a little about scar, so they most definitely know it's base is color clicking. When you are reported for macroing, does anyone else think instead (or in addition too) a clip of your movements/activities they also have a list of all the colors clicked. If they show extreme repetitions in the colors clicked it would give away macroing. This could easily be how their autoban works. After a certain threshold of repeated pixel color clicks, it flags and/or bans you.

that's my insight on how autoban would be possible anyway.


Edit- Also, some people think the 60 second recording clip is actually video? I highly highly doubt its actual video footage it would however probably be lists of coordinates to where your mouse moves and clicks within that 60 seconds. (and personally i think it would include the colors clicked like stated above)

Wrycu
10-29-2008, 01:50 PM
Sorry if this has been said - I don't feel like reading 11 pages on this subject. But I believe that if you stay in any area long enough, doing the same thing, you will get randoms. This has happened to me many times while actually playing, and it gets very annoying. Especially with the new ones, some of which are so stupid and vague I can't figure them out. Anyway, I believe that if you fail a random, you will receive another shortly - or you will be flagged.

Jagex doesn't actually need any evidence, and usually won't present it if they have it because they know that most people who request it use it only to see how they got caught, and to avoid it happening again. I don't know the limitations of Java Applets, but it seems to me that if I worked for them (i'm an Information Security major in college), I would look for:
-Random mouse movements while something is happening
-Random camera movements while something is happening
-Occasional miss clicks (clicking in the wrong place and correcting it)
-Occasional typing, even if it's "accidental"
-Friends being added / talked to
-Chatting with people
-Answering people-
-Length of login(s)
-What other accounts have logged in from your IP (they can do a reverse DNS lookup to see if you're a public location such as a Library which may have valid reasons for that)
-Frequency of login(s)

That's all for now, save this last one. I believe this is one of the biggest ones.
Continuity. That is, if you play on the account "Imma_Noob" (actually play) and while you do you... fight people, talk to players, move your mouse and camera, etc and then auto on the same account and your script is to mine only, you may get flagged. You're playing style is obviously very different. I've actually autoed on accounts for long periods of time without getting banned, then logged in and played legit for a day... and promptly was banned for autoing.

Heysus
10-30-2008, 11:14 PM
I've actually autoed on accounts for long periods of time without getting banned, then logged in and played legit for a day... and promptly was banned for autoing.

It can take up to a month for them to ban you so most likely you were banned for autoing not for playing legit.

Wrycu
10-31-2008, 03:06 PM
I was autoing for two or three weeks, tops. I hadn't logged in to my account in 661 days before then.

Luski14
11-29-2008, 07:21 AM
I'm guessing its based on skill.

If I auto woodcutting, I feel my randoms go much higher and the banning rate goes higher. Same with smithing. These two seem like the most banned.

bung_eye
12-25-2008, 11:13 AM
wouldnt jagex no how often we log in and out and how many accounts are used from the same ip adress. i would think frequent logging out every 10-15 mins and switching accounts especially if they switch in an order (not random) like acc1 acc2 acc3 acc1 acc2 etc would be suspicious and how many legit players would be playing 5+ accounts in the same time period. not sure if they can track any of this but it deffiently wud be suspicious

anandacote
12-28-2008, 03:46 AM
Seems like jagex becomes stronger and stronger at spoting Bots.... Used to be much easier to cheat RS:( .

jumbosped
12-28-2008, 05:42 AM
I remember years back around 2006? I had no idea of any cheats in runescape (I thought they didn't exist!). I discovered the crappy sythe's autominer thinking i was the l33test hax0r ever. The mouse jumped from spot to spot, repeating the process over and over again. there was no human-like mouse strokes and all that other stuff. Well I used this for about 10 minutes. It wasn't working too well and I decided to mine legitly. After that, I stopped using cheats (for now). A week later I got banned for using this powerminer for only 10 minutes.

Jagex seems random to me in the way they report. From other people's views, Jagex was unsecured around this time and later. This may seem true, but I got banned 10 minutes into the bot. Yet, the bot I was using had no solutions for randoms, or anything else, all it did was create a constant click cycle and nothing else.

Communities like these have evolved a great distance, but so has Jagex. To me, I think ban rate between one another has remained constant throughout this period of time considering the rate between the two. For now, I am going to remain legit until I can find THE ultimate antiban bot.

I have 9.5 blackmarks and i don't want to mess up years of time wasted clicking aimlessly in a game that will get me no where.

-Jumbo

s c a r p i m p
01-04-2009, 09:49 PM
i dont know why they say that there are no hacks or scams in runescape.

Phoenix13nl
02-02-2009, 06:08 PM
i dont know why they say that there are no hacks or scams in runescape.

well, do you know any?

Autoing isnt hacking, its just (still a f*cking hell lot of work to create one (i created my own compiler to, but it was reaaly basic)) (in scar's case) a compiler executing a number of commands, No hacking involved at all. Sorry for the off-topic.

Automotron
02-20-2009, 02:47 AM
I'm guessing its based on skill.

If I auto woodcutting, I feel my randoms go much higher and the banning rate goes higher. Same with smithing. These two seem like the most banned.

That's what I think as well. I've ran Narcles Autofighter (ABSOLUTE ownage, by the way :) ) over night, and then for 4-5 hours over the day. One random, and it was a mysterious old man at that.

On the other hand, running Torrent of Fire's Anywhere Powercutter (another great script), I haven't gone half an hour without a random.

What I've been thinking about is enabling "loss control" on a macro. Say the macro gets stuck. I don't know much about scripting yet, but is there any way to detect this and log out?

I've been stuck spinning in the wizard's tower before, clicking on the same spot for hours at a time. Do you realize how obvious this has to be for even the most basic "repetitive actions" detector?

On another note, I've tried acting "botlike" before. Minimal mouse movement, ignoring chats, etc. I didn't see any increase in randoms, but of course this was a very short and casual test.

That being said, I haven't gotten banned yet, ever. But I'm also fairly new to this whole cheating thing too.

ZaSz
02-20-2009, 02:56 AM
What I've been thinking about is enabling "loss control" on a macro. Say the macro gets stuck. I don't know much about scripting yet, but is there any way to detect this and log out?


If its a decent script it should have.

If playerislost then
begin
writeln('Im sorry player is lost, switching to next player');
nextplayer(false);
end;

Or any way of what to do like a tele and walkback function.

Lance
03-26-2009, 07:50 PM
maby if all scripts some how could have a Lost function where you take various DDTM's of the map around where your autoing, and if there found then to move the script back where it should be and breaky any loops that might be going on.

momosimo
04-18-2009, 07:03 AM
Another thing that could be contributing to the characters getting stuck is when the client lags out.

Eg. I'm watching myself auto right now, and sometimes it can go for long stretches of time without disconnecting, but sometimes it will lag out and bring me to the splash screen that pops up as soon as you log in with that damned easter bunny lol

Any way to detect this and click on "Click here to play" In order to resume botting?

EDIT: sorry for the resurrection of this thread, but i felt it was worthwhile

x[Warrior]x3500
04-18-2009, 10:48 AM
yah. it depends on the script. if it were an auto cutter then during the "searching for tree" phase i would add a "search for log out" funtion. this function would include a dtm or something of the bunny and if found, then it would click back in and restart.

eg.


Procedure search for tree;
begin
while not (tree_found) then
begin
Find_tree;
search_for_logout;
wait(1000+random(300));
end;
end;

or sumthing like that

TRiLeZ
04-18-2009, 12:39 PM
Once when I was testing a function on my main with smart, it dosnt allow you to type sometimes even if you stopped the script. So a random noob comes up to me and asks me if im a bot. I went to scar and tryed some things to allow myself to type. Once I came back to the smart client, he said he reported me and I went up to him and said I wasnt an auto and had a stupid conversation with him.
The next day, I found out Jagex perm banned me for autoing, so I appealed it and said I responded to him, then they unbanned me.
I think the banning system may be automated too...

thebob142
04-18-2009, 02:03 PM
Jagex sees someone they don't like and says oh ban hammer end of story. Okay honestly i dunno and i don't really care i don't auto to much i've only had two accs banned i autoed a ton on my main in range guild for a few days all over nighters and nothing but who knows could be but i don't care.

momosimo
04-18-2009, 11:54 PM
In regards to the lagging out and automatically clicking "Click here to play",

I'm playing on Fast Fighter v3.02 and it actually uses that function. Not sure where in the script it is, (haven't looked yet), but it's fully functional and it works really well. Whenever it lags out, BAM, click here to play. Runs as smooth as a cougar.

thebob142
04-19-2009, 12:43 PM
In regards to the lagging out and automatically clicking "Click here to play",

I'm playing on Fast Fighter v3.02 and it actually uses that function. Not sure where in the script it is, (haven't looked yet), but it's fully functional and it works really well. Whenever it lags out, BAM, click here to play. Runs as smooth as a cougar.

keep it on topic please we all know your just trying to get your post to become a jr mem. Chuck is watching :norris:

Nadeem
04-21-2009, 06:28 AM
lol bob.

Anyway, I've been thinking for a while, and maybe Jagex is simply just looking at all these new players we are creating in runscape to create an auto army. I mean seriously, you just create a brand new account like last week, and your play time is almost like 72+ hours, is it not fishy? Especially since its for a few account from the same IP, Like if I were part of a Jagex bot catching team, I would definitely smell something fishy and record patterns on those account, im pretty sure their bot catching system also does similar tasks, and compares to what is humanly possible and stuff only possible with a macro. I think we should rather like create tons of accounts maybe 2 a days, and then for a couple of months auto VERY lightly (1 hour a day MAX) later we can start autoing gradually up like we would normally do (average everyday srl user).

Just my point of view :P May have been said before not sure...

Frt
04-21-2009, 01:11 PM
They could also check if your IP accesses their homepage before playing. If not it would mean that you are using another client like Smart, and they could keep an eye out for your account.

ketta95
06-06-2009, 07:15 PM
They could also check if your IP accesses their homepage before playing. If not it would mean that you are using another client like Smart, and they could keep an eye out for your account.

Hey yea thats true, never thought about that :eek:
do you think they notice it when you go to their homepage load a world, then start up client, and close their site?

jumbosped
06-08-2009, 09:31 AM
They could also check if your IP accesses their homepage before playing. If not it would mean that you are using another client like Smart, and they could keep an eye out for your account.

I'm sure Jagex doesn't do that because they have their own client that you can download from the runescape website. The client brings up the runescape log in screen so you can play runescape with no delay without having to access the homepage ever. I think its pretty convenient and I'm sure BenLand100 used the rs client to create SMART.

mizuno
09-16-2009, 01:28 PM
well, i nver bury normal bones so i guess getting banned from that is just bad luck =/ .. as if so me playing legit would have gotten myself banned.

YoHoJo
09-16-2009, 01:29 PM
One year old grave-dig.. (except its a sticky so im not sure if its necessarily grave digging...)

RedIce
03-17-2010, 06:19 PM
Someone awhile back (Can't remember who) told me that when you send an abuse report, what's going on in your java client (Seeing what your seeing) is recorded for like a minute or something...Now I dunno if it's true but if it is that kinda sucks. That means they can see everything your doing, while you do it, for an entire minute and you would never know...I dunno how they knew this though, may have just been a rumour. Just thought I would contribute.

You are 100% correct. i know that if you are reported for language, then your chat will be recorded for 1 minute after that.(I'm sure they record before that too though)

They probably record everything in your applet when you are reported, i wonder if restarting Runescape will negate this... at least for a while.


PS. You spelled rumor wrong :P

Dynamite
03-17-2010, 06:30 PM
You are 100% correct. i know that if you are reported for language, then your chat will be recorded for 1 minute after that.(I'm sure they record before that too though)

They probably record everything in your applet when you are reported, i wonder if restarting Runescape will negate this... at least for a while.


PS. You spelled rumor wrong :P

Don't spam.
Like nearly a year gravedig.

-Reported.

RedIce
03-17-2010, 07:07 PM
Is it spam if the forum is still active? And on topic?

Frement
03-17-2010, 07:13 PM
Don't spam.
Like nearly a year gravedig.

-Reported.

What spam? And its a sticky.


One year old grave-dig.. (except its a sticky so im not sure if its necessarily grave digging...)

Timer
03-17-2010, 07:15 PM
It's a "tutorial". You cant grave dig it.

WT-Fakawi
03-17-2010, 07:16 PM
Don't spam.
Like nearly a year gravedig.

-Reported.

General Issues never outdate, so this can't be a gravedig. Moreover, the remarks made by RedIce are not what I'd file under spam.

Dynamite
03-17-2010, 07:19 PM
Sorry, I guess I am to "trigger-happy"
I see a 1 poster and think it is spam :/
Sorry RedIce.

mysterious123
03-24-2010, 08:35 AM
"I am 100% convinced banning is an entirely automated process, that does not involve any human interferance. I have NEVER been reported by anyone. I know that because I log all the chat to a file. I check and save each session. No report, never."
-WT Fakawi

The exact nature of the banning system is an interesting study. Obviously the better we understand it, the better we can cheat.
Post your facts here and we will try to sort out how it works... pooling our knowledge together.

Does a failed random event trigger a macro report ? (I think they do)
If not, what are the randoms for... just time delay?

I used Odie's old autofighter to get a char to lvl 80 on goblins... then one time forgot to set "bury bones" to true. bang... account banned, assumed reported. Til then, no automation had stopped me and the script has no awesome antiban.

RANDOMS: For example. Using Tara's Chicken killer without bone burying... I have not got a single random in 20 hours. Not one. Yet on several occaisions, after killing chickens for 15 minutes or so, the very first bone i bury manually will cause a random to occur.

When Mining, randoms come thick and fast, and sometimes as soon as the first minute... Using similar characters on wizzup's miner, some get banned some don't.

add some facts and thoughts of your own.


Randoms are 100% automated, I've run Coh3n's Willow banker script - I got a random at the exact same log amount. (You can check his thread for proof)
Not the same random, just the same amount of logs.
After I updated the script - it suddenly stopped. So there are certain things I think which trigger the randoms at certain times.