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View Full Version : For or against stem cells?



durza998
04-05-2008, 04:10 AM
A human could live to be 200 with stem cells... Cancer and most other diseases would be cured... Whats ur opinion?...

v8godfather
04-05-2008, 09:28 AM
I whole hartedly believe in stem cell research. See what people dont know and why they protest is that dead human baby fetuses are not the only place to get stem cells. You cen get perfeclty fine stem cells form a healthy adult. The nerves in the nose are the only nerves in the human body that come in direct contact with the outside elements which is why they retain their stem cells casue naturally the get damaged and they are the only nerve cells that grow back after being damged or dying completely. Studies have been done on tragicly injured patients where they take stem cells and get them to repair the spinal cord and the patients as a result of this procedure when from being vegetables and people who had o have life support to stay alive started breathing for themselves eating and moving extremities. Just afeter a few years of research and we can do this imagine what we can do in 2-3 years.



some info for the people


1.There are ongoing experiments that get stems cells from dead fetuses that have been donated by the parents to science. the stems cells extracted have been used to make other stem cells.
2.Why when people get old do they loose their sense of smell. You might have found yourself asking that question when reading the above statement. The casue of loss of smell is because when a cell is developed starting in the womb have a special code written in thier DNA ( Im assuming that we all know what DNA is ) and in lame terms this code is a self destruction code.!. See ass we get old and grow our selves divide to make more cells for you body but your cells can only do this so many times prefectly and once these perfect copies run out thats when we get cancer ( lung cancer is when the cells have divided to repair themselves from being injured by the carconigens and divide and after they reach their lmit the DNA gets mistakes in its copy program and makes errored cell = lung cancer). Well the reason we loose this sense of smell is because while your age increases your cells reproduction count lessens and eventually stops completetly unless damaged before the cell count ran out and the DNA got errors so it keeps reproducing even though it shouldnt be. Now with such advance chemical sensors and all the new tachnology scientist use they have been able to isolate the code for the "self destruction" process and in rats have been able to make a pill that if taken daily the cell is still able to reproduce but the counter on the cell does not go down, and research is being down on how to make it go back up if thats what the patient wanted. This pill is probley right down the future for humans its probley gonna be the next generation that puts this ina human ingestable pill. And the best part about them you can start and stop taking them at anytime if you feel like its your time to go. If you know what I mean.


Theoretically speaking it is possible to live to be over 150 without stem cells or any other medical treament or anyhting. If you limit yourself to a edge startvation diet like im talking barely enough food to sustain yourself. Your cells reproduction and metabolism slow down dramtically. This controlled starvation takes advantage of the body's natural response to this situation. By slowing down these processes it saves energy to live. This only theorotically speaking of course cause no ones every been able to doing except on lab rats which showed the result that were thought to happen.

oliver1205
04-05-2008, 02:25 PM
the problem with living up to 200 years is, its not natural. its natural for people to die. think about things like over population.

also, if im correct, they can make you smarter? no doubt, it will be ridiculously expensive. that means the rich get smarter, poor to middle class stays the same. that means nothing will ever change and it will be even harder for poor / middle class people to make money.

R0b0t1
04-06-2008, 12:06 AM
things:

1). Stem cells from a fetus form a tumor as they are programmed to, they will try to form a baby.

2). Only adult stem cells have promise.

3). Stem cells can form neurons, true. More neurons does not make you smarter. In fact, I'm not really sure what more neurons would enable you to do. They would also probably need to be cultured into neurons outside of the brain, as stem cells only respond to the lack of a certain cell. But, if you did do that and got them inside your head, they still might be rejected as 'debris'.

v8godfather
04-06-2008, 12:30 AM
Stem cells can from a fetus dont just make fetuses the can make anything.

Neurons transmit impulses whether they're sensory or motor. More neurons theoretically speaking would make impulses travel faster. Now if stem cells make neurons that are coated with myelin a electrical insulating lipid that speeds up the electrical current by causing it to jump from nerve to nerve, you would be able to move like fricken lightning. You would be a real Superman. Stem cells cant be used to make you smarter at least Ive never seen any research done about it or even talked about by scientist

R0b0t1
04-06-2008, 02:17 AM
Wrong, this is how.

A stem cell from a fetus can form anything, but it will continue to try to form into a body. If you put fetal stem cells in a person, they will continue to try to form a human. It will turn into cancer...

Now, *if* you could get the stem cells to turn into neurons, they would still need to somehow connect to the others. (Which would be difficult, the nerve endings in your hand run up all the way to your brain. Thats one cell from fingertips to brain stem. There would be no where to fit in) Then, I hope you realize, it would still not be faster. The neurons need time to interact with each other, which would be slower than the electrical impulses traveling through and open saline solution. Now, what this might do is make you more sensitive to stimuli, but I don't know how those new neurons will grow all the way up your arm/limb/appendage.

Besides, if you could move much faster than regular humans can now... Your muscles would react so quickly your bones would break. So it would be impossible without building up the skeleton. (I've heard of people breaking femurs because they had so much muscle before.)


So... I think

I win?

v8godfather
04-06-2008, 04:55 AM
no you dont win

Just from reading this I can already tell you know nothing about the human anatomy.
the nerve endings in your hand run up all the way to your brain. Thats one cell from fingertips to brain stem thats not one cell theres hundreds of neuron cells running to your brain. And its also obvious that you know jack about stem cells. Stem cell are copy cat cells with the cells around them so you put a stem cell from a fetus into a you heart its gonna grow cardiac tissue you put it with a bunch of nerves its going to grow nerves. And if the stem cells were put with a group of nerve that are coated with myelin (which makes the electrical impulses jump from nerve to nerve much faster than other nerves) again its not one big nerve going from your finger to your brain. Think about it our body does everything it can to to have the most of something in a small space. What would there be more of... big long strands of nerve cells running from the entire surface of your body or a bunch of little ones with gaps in between that the electricity can jump across. If you know how electricity works with enough current it can jump gaps well there is enough electricity in running through you body as you read this and that is lying dormant as you sleep to jump those gaps when traveling from brain to whatever or visa versa. And yes you move to fast your bones can break but do you notice I said theoretically speaking therefor you could do it but it would be entirely impractical.

Also in case you didnt know. All nerve cells are the same and react the same way. When the nerve gets stimulated it goes through depolarization from -70milli volts to 20milli volts and all the nerves(example) going from you finger to brain do this in a line all the way there. myelin just makes the process faster. And the nerves in your nose are the same in your mouth and are the same in your hand and ear and spine and ect ect....

Do you research next time you decide to talk to me about biology

1 nerve cell that goes from finger to brain...... Im gonna be laughing about that for days


I win... no question about it

R0b0t1
04-06-2008, 06:17 PM
Oh, yes, there is question about it.

First:

http://www.enchantedlearning.com/subjects/anatomy/brain/gifs/Neuron.GIF

That single neurons' axon runs all the way up your arm. Found it in a non-subscription body encyclopedia I got from National Geographic. It said that one single neuron can run its axon from your fingertip to your brain stem. Of course, there is more than one neuron in a nerve bundle. http://shop.nationalgeographic.com/product/261/3977/135.html


It also seems like you think that the presence of myelin makes the neurons go faster. It doesn't, it just speeds up the signals that travel. That is why pure water will not conduct electricity. The particles floating around in the water will, thus that is why your body needs salt, among other reasons.

Also, all of your neurons are not the same. I cite the same book (I inconveniently can't find the page again), which states your neurons for receiving temperature and pain are different, as well as thinking and motor.


And, also, I do know about stem cells. How they use them: they obtain a large amount of them, and just inject them near the area where they are needed (as said by a college professor, he gave a presentation about stem cells). The reason they all don't turn into whatever you inject them by is because they only respond to a lack of something... Thats why if you had lost cardiac tissue from a heart attack, an injection of stem cells would replace them. Also, if they just turned into different cells right off the bat, they would make a large bump that would inevitably get in the way of something.

Think thats everything...

v8godfather
04-07-2008, 01:43 AM
they obtain a large amount of them, and just inject them near the area where they are needed


If you put fetal stem cells in a person, they will continue to try to form a human

you just contradicted yourself


It doesn't, it just speeds up the signals that travel

thats what I said


I cite the same book (I inconveniently can't find the page again), which states your neurons for receiving temperature and pain are different, as well as thinking and motor.

Yes. Motor, sensory, and one other one that I forget at the moment

but in all reality neither one of us is really wrong we both keep making great points and this is why its so fun to debate with people that know what they're talking about it may get a little hostel sometimes(sorry) but its also a sharing of the wealth of knowledge and people who are reading this are probably learning more than they would in school about this stuff

And my apologies for being really dickish in my last post

R0b0t1
04-07-2008, 09:29 PM
Nah... Its fine now. But I didn't contradict myself, I just forgot to specify which type of cells. When they actually use therapy with stem cells, they use an adults, and they usually work.

v8godfather
04-08-2008, 12:49 AM
Ohh I see, I see. Well Id have to say that this was one of the funnest arguments/debates Ive ever had (over the internet anyway) and Im glad Ive met someone on the internet that can show signs of maturity unlike some other people not mentioning any names *cough* GoF *cough*

Well its pretty safe to say that there is no more to be said in this thread. Its was a fun time R0b0t look forward to the next debate.

legendaryhero90
04-08-2008, 02:24 AM
eh.. im going to say for just for the heck of it because i have an aunt who has cancer and a uncle who has diabetes even though hes the most athletic person i know.

it has so much potential to cure, so im for it.

R0b0t1
04-08-2008, 09:13 PM
Thing is... They can't cure diabetes or cancer.

Santa_Clause
04-13-2008, 01:27 PM
Thing is... They can't cure diabetes or cancer.

They also thought they couldn't cure the flu, until they did.

Torrent of Flame
04-13-2008, 03:37 PM
Take stem cells from a 4 day old embryo. They dont know what they will be yet, so they could harvest them.

Im for.

R0b0t1
04-13-2008, 10:10 PM
Well, they've tried that. Heres what makes it hard.

When they harvest them, those cells will still try to form an embryo, even if implanted into a person. They will continue to do this as long as they don't receive the chemical that says stop. But even when you do inject the right chemical to make the cells turn into something or another, some fail. (Example: did that with a rat, some cells ended up turning into the hair producing ones... and they where in its brain.)

So now they must do it outside of the body. This still largely fails, compared to the brute force tactic used with adult stemcells.


And why they can't cure cancer: Cancer is a mutation in the cells of your body which makes them reproduce inharmoniously with the body. They then form their own living 'clump' and crowd out other cells. Unless you made the stem cells eat the cancer cells, it won't work.

And, well, I guess you could cure diabetes, but you would need to genetically modify it like in the solution for cancer to produce insulin.