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Dynamite
02-04-2010, 12:59 PM
"If god existed we would be able yo prove it"
Do you agree?
Need full opinions xD

Cheers
T~M

Wanted
02-04-2010, 03:33 PM
"If god existed we would be able yo prove it"
Do you agree?
Need full opinions xD

Cheers
T~M

No, just imagine if God were 'proven'... this world would be a bit strange...
I mean think about it. Every little thing would be God this, God that, God stole my shoes.

Bionicle
02-04-2010, 03:44 PM
No, because the only proof right now that God exists, is the bible IMO. The things like the saints body not deteriorating or the bloody host could easily be faked. DON'T TRASH ME ON THIS BECAUSE I HAVE SEEN BOTH DURING MY TRIP STARTING IN PORTUGAL AND MAKING MY WAY TO PARIS. The bloody host was just a brown/red powder, and the saints body's were covered in wax because 'they started to turn brown' said the priest of the church. Easily faked imo.

Now back to the bible.

The bible was passed down from generation to generation by power of the human mouth and the human brain. Things could easily get exaggerated, left out, added on etc. After a lot of generations (I don't have the exact number, but i know it was a lot cause i just did this unit in my religion class) it was finally written down.

IMO God doesn't exist, and he was made up by people seeking answers for life beyond death.

mixster
02-04-2010, 04:52 PM
You could just look through the countless other God threads to find answers as this is pretty much always brought up at some point. Tara made good points regarding it iirc

Naum
02-04-2010, 04:55 PM
I'm assuming this is an RS question :/.

For this question, as far as I know (as our teacher has said), you need to look at different arguments. Not sure if you have studied them:

The cosmological argument, this states that there must have been a 'first cause' for something to have occurred.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmological_argument

The Teleological argument relays that everything was made for a purpose.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teleological_argument

The ontological argument attempts to prove the existence of God from abstract reasoning.
http://www.philosophyofreligion.info/theistic-proofs/the-ontological-argument/

And also the good 'ol miracles:
http://atheism.about.com/od/argumentsforgod/a/miracles.htm

Also, the fact that many religious books were created which reinforce this fact. However, many believe this is counter-productive and actually contradicts itself.

chitin
02-04-2010, 08:20 PM
hmm short answer:yes, but it would take time. for instance it took forever to prove micro organisms and sht so god will take a few more 10000 yrs ....i wouldn't worry bout it.

of course its stated "if" god existed. and i got my doubts -.-

Infantry001
02-04-2010, 08:26 PM
If we could prove God existed, He would no longer be a God?

Bionicle
02-04-2010, 08:29 PM
If we could prove God existed, He would no longer be a God?

How do you figure?

Infantry001
02-04-2010, 09:24 PM
How do you figure?

http://www.mikealeckson.com/2009/02/i-cant-prove-that-god-exists.html

Torrent of Flame
02-04-2010, 10:02 PM
God cannot exist because to be a god then you have to be all powerful, meaning everyone would believe in you, therefore any higher powers would not be a God as not everyone believes in said God.

chitin
02-04-2010, 10:23 PM
God cannot exist because to be a god then you have to be all powerful, meaning everyone would believe in you, therefore any higher powers would not be a God as not everyone believes in said God.

being all powerfull doesnt mean everyone belives in u -.- ....it does mean u have the ability to make every1 belive in u...but not what u said. but being god deos mean being all powerful and that just failz the point of :sasmokin: since god should be able to quench evil with snap of his fingers but not. evil is outthere and god is havving a "battle" ...not much of a god if he has to take thousands of yrs to go kill someone...

Ruroken
02-04-2010, 10:31 PM
I "met" "him" a couple times.

WT-Fakawi
02-06-2010, 08:35 AM
I dont usually mix in threads like these and I still refrain from an opinion, but IMHO it all boils down to this:

Evolution... Fact or Fiction?

Declare it Fiction and God is Fact,
Declare it Fact and god is Fiction.


P.S. I am not going to argue with any of you guys :)

cycrosism
02-17-2010, 06:48 AM
God is clearly non existent. No one can prove he exists

Boreas
02-17-2010, 01:14 PM
It's a tricky question as 'prove' doesn't mean much to those with faith.

Which God are you referring to? Even assuming Christian, people have different ideas about abilities and intentions. For example, some people believe that god does exist, but it can't be proven because that's the way he wants it, and when these people are told about evidence supporting evolution, they say that god planted it there deliberately to test faith, or that god is epicly smart and our tiny brains could not comprehend it. Also, some people believe that god is not an embodiment like Morgan Freeman, but rather something ethereal, like The Force. In these cases, the answer would be no, which coincidently makes it easier for these people to argue for the existence of god. 'I'll believe it when I see it' types of people would answer yes, which coincidently makes it easier for them to argue against the existence of god.

Wanted
02-17-2010, 03:38 PM
Morgan Freeman

[offtopic]

I Lol'd

n3ss3s
02-17-2010, 03:57 PM
I don't like directly discussing a god's existence, but some of the flaws...

For example, why does god not abide to animals? Christianity teaches that god created everything, yet it seems that all god has to do with is man? To me it just shows the ignorancy of man, thinking we are the final peak of evolution (well ofcourse a theist wouldn't put it this way). But what about in a hundred thousand years? Humans are looked down on by some further developed species and our god is propably even less acknowledged as the egypt god of sun etc... In my opinion the story of armageddon was made to explain the above, with the almighty god being the highest being from beginning to end...

Bionicle
02-17-2010, 08:51 PM
God is clearly non existent. No one can prove he exists

I don't really like your bias statements tbh...
Can you prove things like animals are not self aware? Nearly everyone thinks it, but there is no actual proof now is there?
I personally don't believe in a god, but still, I'm not trolling the God threads saying he doesn't exist. I don't know, personally i don't care and I don't believe, but I don't know.

Bebe
02-17-2010, 10:03 PM
For the simple fact that there is a million god threads already. I feel the need to post this.

http://media.fukung.net/images/16949/d8e3cfbe87f2c1393f5608ed226c9cd0.jpg
+1

Dynamite
02-17-2010, 10:09 PM
For the simple fact that there is a million god threads already. I feel the need to post this.

http://media.fukung.net/images/16949/d8e3cfbe87f2c1393f5608ed226c9cd0.jpg
+1

Lol'd

Light
02-18-2010, 04:55 AM
In another topic similar to this it comes up whether or not anything can really be proven. I think proof is something that you need to define well before you can start an argument about the topic. A lot of people have different notions of what proof is.


No, the theory of evolution has not been proven, nor has the theory of gravity, nor has the rest of science which is pretty much all theory until proven wrong. Don't worry, you won't fall off the earth in Australia, 'theory' does not mean shaky, to be doubted, unstable, unlikely to be right, etc, as Richard Dawkins says, science is not so arrogant to say that gravity is an absolute proven fact.

i luffs yeww
02-18-2010, 06:05 AM
"I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent." - 1 Timothy 2:12

:norris:

cycrosism
02-18-2010, 07:25 AM
"I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent." - 1 Timothy 2:12

:norris:

www.godisimaginary.com ???

i luffs yeww
02-19-2010, 03:44 AM
www.godisimaginary.com ???

Apparently you don't understand my sarcasm. My mistake.

I think religion is useless. As I agree with most of what Nietzsche said, "God is dead."

I just think it's funny that what I posted is an actual proverb in the Bible.. :3 Silly Christfags. ^^

trecool999
04-10-2010, 04:27 PM
I don't like directly discussing a god's existence, but some of the flaws...

For example, why does god not abide to animals? Christianity teaches that god created everything, yet it seems that all god has to do with is man? To me it just shows the ignorancy of man, thinking we are the final peak of evolution (well ofcourse a theist wouldn't put it this way). But what about in a hundred thousand years? Humans are looked down on by some further developed species and our god is propably even less acknowledged as the egypt god of sun etc... In my opinion the story of armageddon was made to explain the above, with the almighty god being the highest being from beginning to end...

"God blessed them and said to them, "Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air and over every living creature that moves on the ground." - Genesis 1:28

Bionicle
04-10-2010, 08:21 PM
"God blessed them and said to them, "Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air and over every living creature that moves on the ground." - Genesis 1:28

God also made light before he made the sun.
And this is a two month grave dig.

Failpailirl
04-10-2010, 09:09 PM
i believe in agnosticism. i believe that there is no other way to go, without contradicting itself, everysingle religion i have looked into contradicts itself, except agnosticism. because there is no other sure way to go, that is my standpoint.

cycrosism
04-11-2010, 01:52 AM
"If god existed we would be able yo prove it"
Do you agree?


Yep, but there is NO proof he exists, so he OBVIOUSLY doesn't exist. Beats me why people believe in him.

No proof, doesn't exist.

http://i42.tinypic.com/2m5mbg9.jpg

Failpailirl
04-11-2010, 02:48 AM
yep, but there is no proof he exists, so he obviously doesn't exist. Beats me why people believe in him.

No proof, doesn't exist.

http://i42.tinypic.com/2m5mbg9.jpg

lol'd

kingarabian
04-11-2010, 02:58 AM
No, because the only proof right now that God exists, is the bible IMO. The things like the saints body not deteriorating or the bloody host could easily be faked. DON'T TRASH ME ON THIS BECAUSE I HAVE SEEN BOTH DURING MY TRIP STARTING IN PORTUGAL AND MAKING MY WAY TO PARIS. The bloody host was just a brown/red powder, and the saints body's were covered in wax because 'they started to turn brown' said the priest of the church. Easily faked imo.

Now back to the bible.

The bible was passed down from generation to generation by power of the human mouth and the human brain. Things could easily get exaggerated, left out, added on etc. After a lot of generations (I don't have the exact number, but i know it was a lot cause i just did this unit in my religion class) it was finally written down.

IMO God doesn't exist, and he was made up by people seeking answers for life beyond death.

You cannot use the Bible as proof of God anymore, as its obviously changed from the REAL one and is now man written.

For full proof learn the Quran


Yep, but there is NO proof he exists, so he OBVIOUSLY doesn't exist. Beats me why people believe in him.

No proof, doesn't exist.

http://i42.tinypic.com/2m5mbg9.jpg

Do you have proof that he doesnt exist?

Failpailirl
04-11-2010, 03:23 AM
OK, bottom line, there is shit loads more evidence proving that he doesnt exist than he does exist. way more, and i guarantee you, if people werent so damn bias, then they would also agree.

cycrosism
04-11-2010, 06:07 AM
Do you have proof that he doesnt exist?

No, that doesn't work.

You have to proof he DOES exist, not that he doesn't.

x[Warrior]x3500
04-11-2010, 06:10 AM
OK, bottom line, there is shit loads more evidence proving that he doesnt exist than he does exist. way more, and i guarantee you, if people werent so damn bias, then they would also agree.

well first u seem like u r the biased one: you provide a claim, but no support, then call others out because they arent in agreeance with your claim.

i personally think that it depends on what one thinks of a god as. If this god is all powerful, then it would depend on the god's desires. if the god wanted to be able to be proven true, then he would make it so, else, result:=false.

i personally believe that one can not

EDIT:


You have to proof he DOES exist, not that he doesn't.

false. religion and science are based upon faith. one does not need to prove it to believe in it.

Failpailirl
04-11-2010, 12:01 PM
ok here is some evidence, since god "made" all of us, why did he make make absolutly everyone he "made" believe in him.

cycrosism
04-11-2010, 03:10 PM
ok here is some evidence, since god "made" all of us, why did he make make absolutly everyone he "made" believe in him.

1. God didn't make us
2. He didn't make everyone believe in him, Christianity is not the only religion + even if he did make everyone believe in him, why doesn't he show Jesus to us now days like he did 2000 years ago in the bible?

Btw, the bible is fiction. So nothing in there is true

Bionicle
04-11-2010, 03:10 PM
Honestly cycro, you are a bit bias id say. You argue your point with no support, I am on your side, but present proof :p alternate dimensions are not proven, and can not be proved with our current level of technology, but does that mean that they don't exist?
Also that guy could be hiding the baseball, in which case he would have it, and the other guy can't prove he doesn't.
Don't get me wrong, I do not beleive in god and i do think it is all phoey(lol)but your logic is flawed :p

You cannot use the Bible as proof of God anymore, as its obviously changed from the REAL one and is now man written.
Isn't that exactly what i said?

Zyt3x
04-11-2010, 03:40 PM
Do you have proof that he doesnt exist?Wtf? That doesn't make any sense at all...

trecool999
04-11-2010, 06:41 PM
x3500;701291']well first u seem like u r the biased one: you provide a claim, but no support, then call others out because they arent in agreeance with your claim.

i personally think that it depends on what one thinks of a god as. If this god is all powerful, then it would depend on the god's desires. if the god wanted to be able to be proven true, then he would make it so, else, result:=false.

i personally believe that one can not

EDIT:



false. religion and science are based upon faith. one does not need to prove it to believe in it.

It's pretty ambiguous to state that there is a God that can't be proven to exist.
Obviously, if hundreds of people in the bible have experienced him, one must somehow hold the ability to prove his existence.

Torrent of Flame
04-11-2010, 06:44 PM
cycrosism, you do realise to argue a point you must raise a point which the opposition use and destroy it. So if I'm arguing about creationism, I'd throw a point in about it and then use logical arguments (not just OMFG PROVES IT THEN! YOU CANT PROVES IT SO ITS NOT THERE KAISZ?!) to take the argument down. Also, if you can say 'Prove he exists', then people can say 'Prove he doesnt', because its the same impossible argument.

Ask yakman, he's changed some views on shit because of people arguing against stuff he believes in. Any intelligent person is as such, really.

Zyt3x
04-11-2010, 10:02 PM
I've been on the moon.. Seriously! I have!

You can't prove me wrong = I'm right.

Nava2
04-11-2010, 10:22 PM
Proof of god is a scientifically unfalsifiable statement.

There is no proof either way, which leads the statement to be neither true nor false. Thus, be deduction, the answer cannot currently be found.

(I don't think God exists, but I believe in the concept of evolution)

Griff
04-11-2010, 10:49 PM
How could you cast Saradomin strike if he didn't exist?

Bionicle
04-11-2010, 11:21 PM
How could you cast Saradomin strike if he didn't exist?

lol'd, this brightened my day :p

mysterious123
04-22-2010, 06:51 PM
Guys, don't you get it! The answer is 42!!!

cycrosism
06-12-2010, 08:32 AM
"If god existed we would be able yo prove it"
Do you agree?


Yes, but no one can prove that he exists, so it is blatantly obvious that god doesn't exist.

edit: Oh, its this thread again...

Jewish_Rhapsody
06-20-2010, 10:53 PM
1. God didn't make us
2. He didn't make everyone believe in him, Christianity is not the only religion + even if he did make everyone believe in him, why doesn't he show Jesus to us now days like he did 2000 years ago in the bible?

Btw, the bible is fiction. So nothing in there is true

*You BELIEVE the Bible is fiction.

Jewish_Rhapsody
06-20-2010, 10:55 PM
Proof of God's existence?

Right now. How could we get to where we aare today without an all powerful being? Do you truly believe that the universe somehow had no beginning?

i luffs yeww
06-21-2010, 12:40 AM
^ No, it had to of had a beginning, yet I cannot say that some sort of somehow loving being that causes so much problem in the world started it. It makes no logical sense.

blackelvis
06-21-2010, 03:35 AM
have a little faith you heathens

cycrosism
06-21-2010, 04:26 AM
*You BELIEVE the Bible is fiction.

I don't believe it is fiction, I know it is fiction. Even my religion teacher said the bible is fiction.

http://i48.tinypic.com/2qnzckx.jpg

blackelvis
06-21-2010, 07:57 AM
i dont see how some people cant see the parallels between vehemently denying religion and vehemently accepting it. all extremes meet

masterBB
06-25-2010, 01:47 PM
I don't believe in god, unless someone can tell me where god came from?

i luffs yeww
06-26-2010, 01:39 AM
http://i48.tinypic.com/1zxuot1.jpg

^ I point to this.

Yakman
06-29-2010, 01:38 PM
Which god are we talking about here?

i luffs yeww
06-29-2010, 08:17 PM
^ As most people for some reason bash Christianity the most, I assume it's the Christian god.

Yakman
06-29-2010, 10:54 PM
So why do they believe in the Christian God more then any other? You could have someone who believes in the Hindu God equally strongly and they have no way of telling who's got it right or wrong.

To quote Homer Simpson, "And what if we've picked the wrong religion? Every week we're just making God madder and madder?"

masterBB
06-29-2010, 11:18 PM
http://i48.tinypic.com/1zxuot1.jpg

^ I point to this.

Nice link! rep+ But it's true, they don't understand it, calling your believe superior above others, while its just a matter of place and time where you grew up with(just a few people switch from religion).

Religion is a way to understand life, an easy way. Religion could also be a tool to hope, knowing that at the end you will go to heaven. Religion could be used to create a tight group out of a village that was divided before. But remember that we use Religion, and not otherwise...

I don't need religion, I can handle life myself.

i luffs yeww
06-30-2010, 01:29 AM
So why do they believe in the Christian God more then any other? You could have someone who believes in the Hindu God equally strongly and they have no way of telling who's got it right or wrong.

To quote Homer Simpson, "And what if we've picked the wrong religion? Every week we're just making God madder and madder?"

In case you're directing that at me, I don't agree with them. Personally, I don't find much difference between any religion, besides some differences in Buddhism, but not many people would agree.


Nice link! rep+ But it's true, they don't understand it, calling your believe superior above others, while its just a matter of place and time where you grew up with(just a few people switch from religion).

Religion is a way to understand life, an easy way. Religion could also be a tool to hope, knowing that at the end you will go to heaven. Religion could be used to create a tight group out of a village that was divided before. But remember that we use Religion, and not otherwise...

I don't need religion, I can handle life myself.

:) I love that quote.

The "easier" life style is controversial. Karl Marx, Emile Durkheim, and I believe it was Max Weber? All said different things about people and religion. I don't really remember my Sophomore sociology class debates very much, but I know that I agreed with Marx for most things back then. You should read about those three people (Marx and Durkheim were much more intriguing to me than Weber (iirc, he basically just bashed Catholics (or Protestants.. He was one of the two and bashed the other, but I believe he was Protestant and bashed Catholics))). It has a lot to do with life/people/religion and what's actually "easier" or "better," I suppose, than the contrary.

I'm not sure if I've brought this up, but something that I've been pondering (and concluded, which I shan't say on here, but I'd love to talk to anyone about this (or anything :)) privately, just PM/MSN me (panic._@live.com)) is whether or not it's okay to be happy and blinded from the truth, or if it's best to tell those people that life isn't so great and that there's terrible things happening in this world and that they're trapped.

I think it's interesting to think about.

Yakman
06-30-2010, 01:06 PM
In case you're directing that at me, I don't agree with them. Personally, I don't find much difference between any religion, besides some differences in Buddhism, but not many people would agree.



That's exactly the point. You don't agree with them but they don't agree with you, and who's got it right here?
Its called the problem of multiple revelations, there's so many religions and all of them claim to be the One True Religion. So how do you know your religion is the right one and everyone else is wrong?

There's actually many differences between religions. Christianity says you must accept Jesus as the son of God or you'll go to hell. Islam says you must believe Muhammad as the ultimate prophet or you go to hell. These are mutually exclusive. Its not possible to be both a Christian and a Muslim (despite what Gandhi says)

masterBB
06-30-2010, 04:33 PM
There's actually many differences between religions. Christianity says you must accept Jesus as the son of God or you'll go to hell. Islam says you must believe Muhammad as the ultimate prophet or you go to hell. These are mutually exclusive. Its not possible to be both a Christian and a Muslim (despite what Gandhi says)

Except for the names, I don't see many differences. They have the same core, and almost the same rituals.

But there are better examples of religions that were different, religions that weren't changed in medieval times... Old European religions had multiple gods to explain the unexplainable. Think about the religion from the barbarians and the religion from the romans. But as time passes, some people discovered that it wasn't a god who throws the lightning. It were the clouds and the seas became predictable and safe(saver).

Both the Christian and the Muslim got a religion with one god. Both religions had a book. Both religions were complete rewritten by the more powerful people in the past to suit there needs...

i luffs yeww
06-30-2010, 07:57 PM
^ Exactly. I know that they have different names/prophets/whatever/etc., but the same ideas are in every form of religion and magic (magic is a broad term).

Yakman, I don't care if I'm right or wrong, however I believe I'm correct, while so do others. Like my quote from Stephen Roberts shows, I'm virtually synonymous with any theist. I'm well aware of that, and I don't think I'm any different than anyone else, as I'm not. As I'm sure I've said before on here, there is no truth; there are only many truths.

masterBB
07-01-2010, 12:33 PM
^ Exactly. I know that they have different names/prophets/whatever/etc., but the same ideas are in every form of religion and magic (magic is a broad term).

Not fully true, there are enough religions with other ideas as those two. Buddhism for example, for them everyone is equal. In Christianity, you got the pope and other people in the Vatican, who have more rights and are more powerful than normal citizens. But I guess that it was more equal when it just started, in the roman empire. It just has been rewritten so many times, unbelievable that so many people still think that the bible tells the truth. Some now and than they discover new pages that tells a different story as the story in the bible.

For example: The bible says Jesus walked over the water to the boat. An other much older page says this, Jesus walked around the lake, and cause of the bad weather he reached the other side faster than the boat. When the boat was almost there, Jesus walked in to the water to pull the boat to the land. Standing -in- the water, not -on- the water.

All religions are man made, unless god gave us a sign or something, I don't believe he is there.

i luffs yeww
07-01-2010, 09:39 PM
I said something previously about Buddhism being different. ;)

g0tp0t
10-17-2010, 01:21 AM
Lol'd at mysterious123's response.
If god exists then he's a d1ck. Humans ride off and kill each pry andhe just sits rust and watches. He could stop it.

If god doesn't exist then believe is just a false hope.

Either way i dont want to be associated with him

mrpickle
10-17-2010, 01:32 AM
I have no proof, no evidence, but I do have some active imagination to share...









For some reason this makes me think of starcraft...

God is protoss. Their awsome understanding way overpwrs ours. We were created so they can conduct reasearch. Perhaps on how their civilization conquered problems, and changed.



or.



(This may be total BS. But idea.)
God got bored. He/she/it/... then created friends. He/she/it/... then made friends beat each other so the friend numbers can be reduced to a more managable amount. Then Got got sad and shoved all friends to Earth. God now can manage more friends easier! No more declining population, just clustered population with slower/capped growth. God must have feelings too.

Cstrike
10-17-2010, 02:10 AM
The only feasible explanation is the gnostic view where we're sent to earth to experience negativity and positivity away from a perfect home, and upon death return "home"-- and are allowed multiple trips to this plane.

If that isn't true, then I'd find it hard to believe in a God.


Another feasible one... which I would HATE if it was true... is this.
I found this a really spiritual read, makes you think twice about the afterlife and how you treat people, even if you don't put one percent of faith in any religion

The Egg (By: Andy Weir)

You were on your way home when you died.
It was a car accident. Nothing particularly remarkable, but fatal nonetheless. You left behind a wife and two children. It was a painless death. The EMTs tried their best to save you, but to no avail. Your body was so utterly shattered you were better off, trust me.
And that’s when you met me.

“What… what happened?” You asked. “Where am I?”
“You died,” I said, matter-of-factly. No point in mincing words.
“There was a… a truck and it was skidding…”
“Yup,” I said.
“I… I died?”
“Yup. But don’t feel bad about it. Everyone dies,” I said.
You looked around. There was nothingness. Just you and me. “What is this place?” You asked. “Is this the afterlife?”
“More or less,” I said.
“Are you god?” You asked.
“Yup,” I replied. “I’m God.”
“My kids… my wife,” you said.
“What about them?”
“Will they be all right?”
“That’s what I like to see,” I said. “You just died and your main concern is for your family. That’s good stuff right there.”
You looked at me with fascination. To you, I didn’t look like God. I just looked like some man. Or possibly a woman. Some vague authority figure, maybe. More of a grammar school teacher than the almighty.
“Don’t worry,” I said. “They’ll be fine. Your kids will remember you as perfect in every way. They didn’t have time to grow contempt for you. You wife will cry on the outside, but will be secretly relieved. To be fair, your marriage was falling apart. If it’s any consolation, she’ll feel very guilty for feeling relieved.”
“Oh,” you said. “So what happens now? Do I go to heaven or hell or something?”
“Neither,” I said. “You’ll be reincarnated.”
“Ah,” you said. “So the Hindus were right,”
“All religions are right in their own way,” I said. “Walk with me.”

You followed along as we strode through the void. “Where are we going?”
“Nowhere in particular,” I said. “It’s just nice to walk while we talk.”
“So what’s the point, then?” You asked. “When I get reborn, I’ll just be a blank slate, right? A baby. So all my experiences and everything I did in this life won’t matter.”
“Not so!” I said. “You have within you all the knowledge and experiences of all your past lives. You just don’t remember them right now.”

I stopped walking and took you by the shoulders. “Your soul is more magnificent, beautiful, and gigantic than you can possibly imagine. A human mind can only contain a tiny fraction of what you are. It’s like sticking your finger in a glass of water to see if it’s hot or cold. You put a tiny part of yourself into the vessel, and when you bring it back out, you’ve gained all the experiences it had.
“You’ve been in a human for the last 48 years, so you haven’t stretched out yet and felt the rest of your immense consciousness. If we hung out here for long enough, you’d start remembering everything. But there’s no point to doing that between each life.”
“How many times have I been reincarnated, then?”
“Oh lots. Lots and lots. An in to lots of different lives.” I said. “This time around, you’ll be a Chinese peasant girl in 540 AD.”
“Wait, what?” You stammered. “You’re sending me back in time?”
“Well, I guess technically. Time, as you know it, only exists in your universe. Things are different where I come from.”
“Where you come from?” You said.

“Oh sure,” I explained “I come from somewhere. Somewhere else. And there are others like me. I know you’ll want to know what it’s like there, but honestly you wouldn’t understand.”
“Oh,” you said, a little let down. “But wait. If I get reincarnated to other places in time, I could have interacted with myself at some point.”
“Sure. Happens all the time. And with both lives only aware of their own lifespan you don’t even know it’s happening.”
“So what’s the point of it all?”

“Seriously?” I asked. “Seriously? You’re asking me for the meaning of life? Isn’t that a little stereotypical?”
“Well it’s a reasonable question,” you persisted.
I looked you in the eye. “The meaning of life, the reason I made this whole universe, is for you to mature.”
“You mean mankind? You want us to mature?”
“No, just you. I made this whole universe for you. With each new life you grow and mature and become a larger and greater intellect.”

“Just me? What about everyone else?”
“There is no one else,” I said. “In this universe, there’s just you and me.”
You stared blankly at me. “But all the people on earth…”
“All you. Different incarnations of you.”
“Wait. I’m everyone!?”
“Now you’re getting it,” I said, with a congratulatory slap on the back.

“I’m every human being who ever lived?”
“Or who will ever live, yes.”
“I’m Abraham Lincoln?”
“And you’re John Wilkes Booth, too,” I added.
“I’m Hitler?” You said, appalled.
“And you’re the millions he killed.”
“I’m Jesus?”
“And you’re everyone who followed him.”
You fell silent.
“Every time you victimized someone,” I said, “you were victimizing yourself. Every act of kindness you’ve done, you’ve done to yourself. Every happy and sad moment ever experienced by any human was, or will be, experienced by you.”
You thought for a long time.
“Why?” You asked me. “Why do all this?”
“Because someday, you will become like me. Because that’s what you are. You’re one of my kind. You’re my child.”

“Whoa,” you said, incredulous. “You mean I’m a god?”
“No. Not yet. You’re a fetus. You’re still growing. Once you’ve lived every human life throughout all time, you will have grown enough to be born.”
“So the whole universe,” you said, “it’s just…”
“An egg.” I answered. “Now it’s time for you to move on to your next life.”
And I sent you on your way.


Food for thought, hopefully not true though. Of course we just don't know. :)

Feroc1ty
10-17-2010, 03:34 AM
If you wish to prove a claim, it must be possible to conceive of evidence that would prove the claim false.


It may sound paradoxical, but in order for any claim to be true, it must be falsifiable. The rule of falsifiability is a guarantee that if the claim is false, the evidence will prove it false; and if the claim is true, the evidence will not disprove it (in which case the claim can be tentatively accepted as true until such time as evidence is brought forth that does disprove it). The rule of falsifiability, in short, says that the evidence must matter, and as such it is the first and most important and most fundamental rule of evidential reasoning.

The rule of falsifiability is essential for this reason: If nothing conceivable could ever disprove the claim, then the evidence that does exist would not matter; it would be pointless to even examine the evidence, because the conclusion is already known — the claim is invulnerable to any possible evidence. This would not mean, however, that the claim is true; instead it would mean that the claim is meaningless. This is so because it is impossible — logically impossible — for any claim to be true no matter what. For every true claim, you can always conceive of evidence that would make the claim untrue — in other words, again, every true claim is falsifiable.

For example, the true claim that the life span of human beings is less than 200 years is falsifiable; it would be falsified if a single human being were to live to be 200 years old. Similarly, the true claim that water freezes at 32° F is falsifiable; it would be falsified if water were to freeze at, say, 34° F. Each of these claims is firmly established as scientific “fact,” and we do not expect either claim ever to be falsified; however, the point is that either could be. Any claim that could not be falsified would be devoid of any propositional content; that is, it would not be making a factual assertion — it would instead be making an emotive statement, a declaration of the way the claimant feels about the world. Nonfalsifiable claims do communicate information, but what they describe is the claimant’s value orientation. They communicate nothing whatsoever of a factual nature, and hence are neither true nor false. Nonfalsifiable statements are propositionally vacuous.

There are two principal ways in which the rule of falsifiability can be violated — two ways, in other words, of making nonfalsifiable claims. The first variety of nonfalsifiable statements is the undeclared claim: a statement that is so broad or vague that it lacks any propositional content. The undeclared claim is basically unintelligible and consequently meaningless. Consider, for example, the claim that crystal therapists can use pieces of quartz to restore balance and harmony to a person’s spiritual energy. What does it mean to have unbalanced spiritual energy? How is the condition recognized and diagnosed? What evidence would prove that someone’s unbalanced spiritual energy had been — or had not been — balanced by the application of crystal therapy? Most New Age wonders, in fact, consist of similarly undeclared claims that dissolve completely when exposed to the solvent of rationality.

The undeclared claim has the advantage that virtually any evidence that could be adduced could be interpreted as congruent with the claim, and for that reason it is especially popular among paranormalists who claim precognitive powers. Jeane Dixon, for example, predicted that 1987 would be a year “filled with changes” for Caroline Kennedy. Dixon also predicted that Jack Kemp would “face major disagreements with the rest of his party” in 1987 and that "world-wide drug terror” would be “unleashed by narcotics czars” in the same year. She further revealed that Dan Rather “may [or may not] be hospitalized” in 1988, and that Whitney Houston’s “greatest problem” in 1986 would be “balancing her personal life against her career.” The undeclared claim boils down to a statement that can be translated as “Whatever will be, will be.”

The second variety of nonfalsifiable statements, which is even more popular among paranormalists, involves the use of the multiple out, that is, an inexhaustible series of excuses intended to explain away the evidence that would seem to falsify the claim. Creationists, for example, claim that the universe is no more than 10,000 years old. They do so despite the fact that we can observe stars that are billions of light-years from the earth, which means that the light must have left those stars billions of years ago, and which proves that the universe must be billions of years old. How then do the creationists respond to this falsification of their claim? By suggesting that God must have created the light already on the way from those distant star at the moment of creation 10,000 years ago. No conceivable piece of evidence, of course, could disprove that claim.

Additional examples of multiple outs abound in the realm of the paranormal. UFO proponents, faced with a lack of reliable physical or photographic evidence to buttress the claims, point to a secret “government conspiracy” that is allegedly preventing the release of evidence that would support their case. Psychic healers say they can heal you if you have enough faith in their psychic powers. Psychokinetics say they can bend spoons with their minds if they are not exposed to negative vibrations from skeptic observers. Tarot readers can predict your fate if you’re sincere in your desire for knowledge. The multiple out means, in effect, “Heads I win, tails you lose.”

This should end the thread.

i luffs yeww
10-17-2010, 10:27 PM
^ I lol'd at "this should end the thread." ^^ Silly. Thinking that debates about religion will ever end.. :) You're cute. ;)

mrpickle
10-18-2010, 04:06 AM
Supporting point :).

Ten Rules for Being Human
by Cherie Carter-Scott

1. You will receive a body. You may like it or hate it, but it's yours to keep for the entire period.
2. You will learn lessons. You are enrolled in a full-time informal school called, "life."
3. There are no mistakes, only lessons. Growth is a process of trial, error, and experimentation. The "failed" experiments are as much a part of the process as the experiments that ultimately "work."
4. Lessons are repeated until they are learned. A lesson will be presented to you in various forms until you have learned it. When you have learned it, you can go on to the next lesson.
5. Learning lessons does not end. There's no part of life that doesn't contain its lessons. If you're alive, that means there are still lessons to be learned.
6. "There" is no better a place than "here." When your "there" has become a "here", you will simply obtain another "there" that will again look better than "here."
7. Other people are merely mirrors of you. You cannot love or hate something about another person unless it reflects to you something you love or hate about yourself.
8. What you make of your life is up to you. You have all the tools and resources you need. What you do with them is up to you. The choice is yours.
9. Your answers lie within you. The answers to life's questions lie within you. All you need to do is look, listen, and trust.
10. You will forget all this.





what does this prove? nothing. Therefore there really is no point in arguing. Ferioc1ty is highlighting that.

But of course the argument will continue whether there are proofs or not. It's an enjoyment at the very least, a goal at the very most.

So, I agree with both Ferioc1ty and I luffs yeww.

Camaro'
10-18-2010, 10:00 PM
^ I lol'd at "this should end the thread." ^^ Silly. Thinking that debates about religion will ever end.. :) You're cute. ;)

I wasn't going to reply until I read this, brightened my mood.

Who cares? Believe what ever you want, just stop making god threads.

bolshak25
10-18-2010, 10:20 PM
alot of you say he cant exist because your cant prove it, but nothing in the universe is provable either, prove that two plus two equals four. you cant. someone made up those words to represent numbers, but for all we know four is actually five. everything you think you know is what you believe. prove that black is black and its not white, again you cant because what you see as white could be what others see as black, but they were taught that whatever that looks like, is black. nobody sees or thinks or is the same, and our lives are all about what we believe. i dont care is you agree with me or not, but i think god exists because the universe cant just start out of nowhere. life cant spontaneously start too. i think god created the beginning. jmo

Tlachtli
01-24-2011, 12:04 AM
http://i48.tinypic.com/1zxuot1.jpg

^ I point to this.

I really think anyone participating in a religious debate needs to understand this. Otherwise, all arguments from either side will boil down to "lol prove it".

I happen to believe in some kind of singular higher power; beyond that however, I really don't know what I believe in exactly. I call it God and myself a Christian because that's what I know and what is familiar.

I'd never dare to say another religion is 'wrong', because if you think about it every monotheistic religion (as well as several polytheistic ones) are exactly the same, just with different names for their deities and rituals to honor them. The core beliefs and emphasized morality vary little between them. If you believe in one religion, it's highly likely you unknowingly believe in a number of others as well.

(Sorry if this is considered a gravedig, just wanted to share those two cents)

Boreas
01-24-2011, 01:46 AM
I really think anyone participating in a religious debate needs to understand this. Otherwise, all arguments from either side will boil down to "lol prove it".

I happen to believe in some kind of singular higher power; beyond that however, I really don't know what I believe in exactly. I call it God and myself a Christian because that's what I know and what is familiar.

I'd never dare to say another religion is 'wrong', because if you think about it every monotheistic religion (as well as several polytheistic ones) are exactly the same, just with different names for their deities and rituals to honor them. The core beliefs and emphasized morality vary little between them. If you believe in one religion, it's highly likely you unknowingly believe in a number of others as well.

(Sorry if this is considered a gravedig, just wanted to share those two cents)

Excellent point. I'd also like to add that the core beliefs and emphasized morality of atheists and agnostics are also similar to theists. Also, before the 10 commandments, people weren't murdering and coveting all the time.

Reshintoe
01-26-2011, 02:59 AM
yes and no. God could exist with or without being able to have it proven, however I believe personally that you can prove it, but that is not the point of this debate. However I will take up the old standard of science, just because you can't prove something does not negate its existence gravity was there long before it was proven, as were other natural forces, just because we don't have the insight to reveal something does not mean that it does not or can not exist, in fact some scientist believe in so called dark particles even though they can not be seen or proven to exist they know they are there based on conditions surrounding them.

Awkwardsaw
01-26-2011, 03:23 AM
gravity is just a theory, not a law.

Feroc1ty
01-26-2011, 08:46 AM
gravity is just a theory, not a law.

Recently they figured gravity has some relevance to magnetic fields, and the whole concept of gravity is really unanswered, besides of course the 'ole "well it pull shit's down... that's for sure!"

kingarabian
01-26-2011, 09:10 AM
gravity is just a theory, not a law.

Big Bang is a theory, not a law :rolleyes:

Awkwardsaw
01-26-2011, 01:14 PM
Big Bang is a theory, not a law :rolleyes:

i know, so is evolution

cycrosism
01-27-2011, 11:00 AM
"I permit no woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she is to keep silent." - Bible

SOUNDS LEGIT TO ME

1 Corinthians chapter 14:

As in all the congregations of the saints, women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says. If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.

Genesis chapter 17 God says:

This is my covenant, which you shall keep, between me and you and your descendants after you: Every male among you shall be circumcised. You shall be circumcised in the flesh of your foreskins, and it shall be a sign of the covenant between me and you.

God makes no mention of forming any sort of covenant with women.

There are many other examples that we can find in the Bible:

Matthew 25:1: "At that time the kingdom of heaven will be like ten virgins who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom."

John 20:17: "Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father," as though the touch of a woman is somehow improper, but a few verses later, is happy to have Thomas touch him.

Genesis chapter 3, God punishes Eve, and all women for thousands of years, with greatly increased pain during childbirth. No such pain is inflicted on Adam.

Ephesians 5:22-24: "Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything."

Peter 3:7: "Husbands, in the same way be considerate as you live with your wives, and treat them with respect as the weaker partner and as heirs with you of the gracious gift of life, so that nothing will hinder your prayers."

1 John 2:13, John says, "I write to you, fathers, because you have known him who is from the beginning. I write to you, young men, because you have overcome the evil one. I write to you, dear children, because you have known the Father." No mention is made of women.

There are other, broader examples of misogyny that are readily apparent in the Bible as well:

* Are any of Jesus' disciples women? No.
* Are any of the elders in the book of Revelation women? No.
* Are any of the books of the Bible written by women? No.

KingKong
01-27-2011, 11:55 AM
^ What was the point of that?:confused:

cycrosism
01-27-2011, 12:19 PM
To show how sexist christianty is

KingKong
01-27-2011, 12:49 PM
lol, how's that got anything to do with god?:p

cycrosism
01-27-2011, 01:05 PM
Because most of that is written from the old test... Which was apparently written by/for god

Awkwardsaw
01-27-2011, 01:17 PM
* Are any of Jesus' disciples women? No.
* Are any of the books of the Bible written by women? No.

actually, mary magdalene. the only reason you dont hear about it is because the vatican removed her from history. i mean, who wants jesus to be married to a prostitute(according to the catholic church)?

i support the fact that the holy bible is sexist by modern standards, but this was the life style anytime <1900

cause
02-26-2011, 11:11 PM
I'm a Christian and I do believe in a God who is real and I can rely on...now it is obvious to me HOWEVER that is not the reason for my post, the reason is that everyone who doesn't believe in god seems to enjoy being a royal douche about it and constantly antagonizing and disrespecting what many people do believe in.

kingarabian
02-26-2011, 11:13 PM
I'm a Christian and I do believe in a God who is real and I can rely on...now it is obvious to me HOWEVER that is not the reason for my post, the reason is that everyone who doesn't believe in god seems to enjoy being a royal douche about it and constantly antagonizing and disrespecting what many people do believe in.

Amen brother.

cycrosism
02-26-2011, 11:14 PM
I'm a Christian and I do believe in a God who is real and I can rely on...now it is obvious to me HOWEVER that is not the reason for my post, the reason is that everyone who doesn't believe in god seems to enjoy being a royal douche about it and constantly antagonizing and disrespecting what many people do believe in.

"When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours." - Stephen F Roberts.

kingarabian
02-26-2011, 11:16 PM
"When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours." - Stephen F Roberts.

And how do we dismiss other gods, when muslims, christians, and jews believe in the same god?

cycrosism
02-26-2011, 11:20 PM
Do you believe in Buddha? Or Allah?

As said before when you understand why they don't exist YOU will understand why your god doesn't

kingarabian
02-26-2011, 11:31 PM
Do you believe in Buddha? Or Allah?

As said before when you understand why they don't exist YOU will understand why your god doesn't

Buddha is not and never was a god. I believe in Allah. The reason why I believe buddah is not a god, is because in history it clearly says he was a man. I believe Allah is my god because Allah sent the Qur'an to Prophet Mohammad, and the Qur'an has miracles which proves Allah's existence.

cycrosism
02-26-2011, 11:38 PM
Buddha is not and never was a god. I believe in Allah. The reason why I believe buddah is not a god, is because in history it clearly says he was a man. I believe Allah is my god because Allah sent the Qur'an to Prophet Mohammad, and the Qur'an has miracles which proves Allah's existence.

And in the bible they refer to God as "He" and Jesus as "He" so I would say by that history that he isn't a God either

kingarabian
02-26-2011, 11:48 PM
And in the bible they refer to God as "He" and Jesus as "He" so I would say by that history that he isn't a God either

Yes the bible is no longer gods words, it is man made, so when you read it half of the bible wont make sense-sorry to say.

cycrosism
02-27-2011, 12:31 AM
Yes the bible is no longer gods words, it is man made, so when you read it half of the bible wont make sense-sorry to say.

The Bible is man made just like god, amirite?

kingarabian
02-27-2011, 12:36 AM
The Bible is man made just like god, amirite?

The bible used to prove god's existence but not anymore.

Zyt3x
02-27-2011, 12:39 AM
The bible used to prove god's existence but not anymore.How? It's some words written (read: by humans) on some piece of paper... How can that prove god?

kingarabian
02-27-2011, 01:08 AM
How? It's some words written (read: by humans) on some piece of paper... How can that prove god?

Im not expert really into the Bible because I am a muslim, however the Quran proves god's existence much much much much much better than the bible can.

cycrosism
02-27-2011, 01:24 AM
Offtopic: Kingarabian theres no need to have the Vote for wilderness and free trade thing in your sig

kingarabian
02-27-2011, 01:25 AM
Offtopic: Kingarabian theres no need to have the Vote for wilderness and free trade thing in your sig

O wow I completely forgot lol. Thanks!

cause
02-27-2011, 01:35 AM
"When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours." - Stephen F Roberts.

You're sidestepping the point of my statement. Respectfully dismiss what I believe....thanks.

Awkwardsaw
02-27-2011, 01:38 AM
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/apotheosis


apotheosis: the elevation or exaltation of a person to the rank of a god.

My definition of God is omniscience, which means infinite knowledge, or to be Illuminated(or to be Lucifer, if you want to get symbolic). I want to know every thing there is to know about the universe using logic and reasoning, and the moment i(or anyone else) does he is by my definition a God.

you can also find a nice article here (http://www.aoc.gov/cc/art/rotunda/apotheosis/index.cfm), explaining apotheosis better(sort of, it's a nice read :))

i luffs yeww
02-27-2011, 02:07 AM
By the way, there seems to be a religious gene. Too high to find the article(s) (lol some US marshals, a firetruck, and an ambulance were all here one after another for different reasons and I smoked out my window to everyone of them ;D), but I'm sure you can find it if you care (I'm sure most people don't, because it changes a lot of stuff, which is soooo bad to most (no really, it is to most)).

But basically, religious people and non-religious people are like that based on genetics, to some degree. Pretty cool. Nothing too groundbreaking to me (I've thought for years that it had to be some sort of genetic thing, as it didn't make sense to me that some places were so religious and others were so non-religious (France, iirc), and that the overall trend wasn't more extreme with the amount of science in the world disproving (interpret this however to change what I mean, but I know that for me there is no god. I'm entirely fine with religion though, and it makes complete sense to me. I just have no reason for it and simply know (for my own life, but not for everyone's) that there is no god).

Anyway. People will be religious for as long as humans are humans. That's something that I wish people accepted. People who try to say one's religion is entirely false and that their beliefs aren't supported by anything are bad. I live based on atheism, but that doesn't mean that I will make anyone's life better by saying that I'm better than them or they're worse than others or whatever. It sucks that people are so addicted to conflict, and religion is used so often for an outlet for the conflict. :/

I'm sincerely sorry and very proud of everyone who believes in a religion and follows it to any degree and doesn't feel ashamed to show it. Truly. :) I see assholes all the time bitching about religion and how it's false. So what if it is (not saying it is), Assholes? Why do you have to fight it? Why make peoples' lives worse for it? You're truly ignorant if you try to disprove religion and hurt people in the process, in my opinion..

Peace, yo. :p

kingarabian
02-27-2011, 02:37 AM
By the way, there seems to be a religious gene. Too high to find the article(s) (lol some US marshals, a firetruck, and an ambulance were all here one after another for different reasons and I smoked out my window to everyone of them ;D), but I'm sure you can find it if you care (I'm sure most people don't, because it changes a lot of stuff, which is soooo bad to most (no really, it is to most)).

But basically, religious people and non-religious people are like that based on genetics, to some degree. Pretty cool. Nothing too groundbreaking to me (I've thought for years that it had to be some sort of genetic thing, as it didn't make sense to me that some places were so religious and others were so non-religious (France, iirc), and that the overall trend wasn't more extreme with the amount of science in the world disproving (interpret this however to change what I mean, but I know that for me there is no god. I'm entirely fine with religion though, and it makes complete sense to me. I just have no reason for it and simply know (for my own life, but not for everyone's) that there is no god).

Anyway. People will be religious for as long as humans are humans. That's something that I wish people accepted. People who try to say one's religion is entirely false and that their beliefs aren't supported by anything are bad. I live based on atheism, but that doesn't mean that I will make anyone's life better by saying that I'm better than them or they're worse than others or whatever. It sucks that people are so addicted to conflict, and religion is used so often for an outlet for the conflict. :/

I'm sincerely sorry and very proud of everyone who believes in a religion and follows it to any degree and doesn't feel ashamed to show it. Truly. :) I see assholes all the time bitching about religion and how it's false. So what if it is (not saying it is), Assholes? Why do you have to fight it? Why make peoples' lives worse for it? You're truly ignorant if you try to disprove religion and hurt people in the process, in my opinion..

Peace, yo. :p

As a muslim I am going to have to disagree with that "religious gene". God gave everyone a choice: to worship him or to not.

And seriously I dont think many religious people have a crazy problem with people who dont believe in god. Yes inside they may get this fuzzy feeling, but we dont go literally go all out and be offensive. As I said before I have many irl friends who dont have a religion or who are buddhist/athiest etc. I get along just aswell.

i luffs yeww
02-27-2011, 02:42 AM
I didn't mean to say religious people don't like non-religious people or other faith, by default (besides WBC followers), just that a lot of butthurt rebellious teens who aren't actually atheists but call themselves atheists are assholes for hating religious fellows.

Boreas
02-27-2011, 06:51 AM
Self contained religion is fine, and atheists shouldn't bother theists about it. The problem is when it affects other people, either by making them stupid or killing them. I think that is why atheists write book after book about it.

kingarabian
02-27-2011, 07:00 AM
Self contained religion is fine, and atheists shouldn't bother theists about it. The problem is when it affects other people, either by making them stupid or killing them. I think that is why atheists write book after book about it.

I used to be very sensitive with atheists. I would get pissed off or mad, but you realize later that if you want to spread your message you have to atleast contain yourself first and do it in a human way. Not with war, not with biased news channels, crazy blogs, and the list goes on. We had this religious convention here in Hawaii and representatives of various religions and beliefs came together discussed things, and spread their messages. We need more stuff like that.

But in the end god bless us all!

Zyt3x
02-27-2011, 12:07 PM
Think about how much further science and mathematics would have been if it weren't for religion, and think about how many lives religion has taken.. :'(

Echo_
02-27-2011, 12:54 PM
Think about how much further science and mathematics would have been if it weren't for religion, and think about how many lives religion has taken.. :'(

I agree 100% with this statement. Take the first Crusade for example. It was supposed to be the ultimate holy war in the name of God, and whoever went was guaranteed a spot in heaven. After the city of Ma'arra fell, the crusaders boiled adults alive in pots and impaled children on spits, and ATE THEM. Very Christian of them if I do say so myself. I don't believe those actions portray Jesus' message at all, but that is what Christians have attached to their religion; war, pain, and death.


We had this religious convention here in Hawaii and representatives of various religions and beliefs came together discussed things, and spread their messages. We need more stuff like that.

It's nice to see that religious policy in Hawaii has lightened up a bit, especially after that dude got beat up by police for refusing to pray at a Senate meeting.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4h7ekCD6uE4

CaptainCraven
02-27-2011, 02:06 PM
OK, here is my view.
God is all powerful, meaning he can do/know/ect. anything. So, what if God made an object that no body could move? If he was all powerful, he would needed to be able to move it, but he would also need to be able to creat an object that no one could move?
For futher reading = http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irresistible_force_paradox
That said, Go God!

Wizzup?
02-27-2011, 02:26 PM
The problem with religion is that in essence in explains absolutely nothing. It is just some made up facts to tell the people what they want to hear.

No one wants to hear that when they die they will simply not exist anymore - no heaven, no hell - there's just nothing. Emptiness. You're dead. The same goes for the origin of humans. A lot of people don't want to think about how the human race came to existence, they don't want to know how space actually works. They are all scary thoughts, after all - who wants to know his grandgrandgrand (etc) father is just an ape? And before that, a single cell?

And what about the point of life? It's another serious question that most people just don't want to think about. After all, ``you go to heaven and still live there'' and you generally just ``live for god/christ''.

The idea of a God/Jesus/Allah/Mohammed/teapot that cares for you is another point, it's nice to believe that someone, up there, cares for you and will listen to your problems. But really, it's a childish thought. Don't tell me ``prayers are answered'' because that is really just a play of logic. Answering prayers in (Yes, No, Wait) is a 100% hit, I could answer all your prayers with precisely those answers. Anyway, going off track.

I say people who don't like/want to think because all these claims made by religion are so simple, essentially. They don't really explain anything, they just give you a feeling of security. (Which is a false one if you actually think about it) Religion has tried hard to make up facts that can long stay unproven and therefore not be disproved.

But that's where it really get's freaky. Lately (say 100-150 years) there have been so many discoveries that point at all the flaws in religion that range from evolution and as to when the earth came into existence to specific arguments against small citations in the ``holy books'' that I think that religious people should have started doubting, at least. The amount of arguments against religion is ground shaking and the arguments are only growing. But here's the trick - people who are religious will try to hold on as long as possible to these ``truths'' (that they sometimes may well know to be invalid) because it allows them to not be confronted with the actual philosophical problems with life. (The ones I stated above)

Now, I'm not saying that we actually know how space came into existence because we obviously don't know, but I find resolving to some ``almighty power'' pompously stupid. It doesn't answer the essential question - who created this almighty being? Another almighty being? Come on. It's like the old woman who said the earth was standing on a turtle, and that turtle was standing on another one ad infinitum. (This is also why I don't consider myself agnostic.)

E: Added part about having someone who cares.

Zyt3x
02-27-2011, 02:44 PM
The problem with religion is that in essence in explains absolutely nothing. It is just some made up facts to tell the people what they want to hear. Think this is a bold statement? Please read my entire post before replying.

No one wants to hear that when they die they will simply not exist anymore - no heaven, no hell - there's just nothing. Emptiness. You're dead. The same goes for the origin of humans. A lot of people don't want to think about how the human race came to existence, they don't want to know how space actually works. They are all scary thoughts, after all - who wants to know his grandgrandgrand (etc) father is just an ape? And before that, a single cell?

And what about the point of life? It's another serious question that most people just don't want to think about. After all, ``you go to heaven and still live there'' and you generally just ``live for god/christ''.

I say people who don't like/want to think because all these claims made by religion are so simple, essentially. They don't really explain anything, they just give you a feeling of security. (Which is a false one if you actually think about it) Religion has tried hard to make up facts that can long stay unproven and therefore not be disproved.

But that's where it really get's freaky. Lately (say 100-150 years) there have been so many discoveries that point at all the flaws in religion that range from evolution and as to when the earth came into existence to specific arguments against small citations in the ``holy books'' that I think that religious people should have started doubting, at least. The amount of arguments against religion is ground shaking and the arguments are only growing. But here's the trick - people who are religious will try to hold on as long as possible to these ``truths'' (that they sometimes may well know to be invalid) because it allows them to not be confronted with the actual philosophical problems with life. (The ones I stated above)

Now, I'm not saying that we actually know how space came into existence because we obviously don't know, but I find resolving to some ``almighty power'' pompously stupid. It doesn't answer the essential question - who created this almighty being? Another almighty being? Come on. It's like the old woman who said the earth was standing on a turtle, and that turtle was standing on another one ad infinitum. (This is also why I don't consider myself agnostic.)/thread

I couldn't agree more with Wizzup?'s post.

gerauchert
02-27-2011, 05:56 PM
Self contained religion is fine, and atheists shouldn't bother theists about it. The problem is when it affects other people, either by making them stupid or killing them. I think that is why atheists write book after book about it.

Absolutely man.

I feel that people are absolutely entitled to believe what they want to believe, however; when these beliefs become organized and preached as a strict doctrine, focus is lost with respect to the reasons for which the beliefs were originally useful. As Wizzup said, it is hard for some to cope with the great unanswered questions about life. Religion may certainly relieve these insecure feelings for some, but beyond that I question what further benefits religion will bring.

What has the advancement of organized religion done for the betterment of mankind? Contrasting this, what has advancement of science and technology done for humanity? Both of these aspects no doubt have had negative impacts (holy war, atomic bombs, ect.) however it is self evident that the list of physical benefits would be far greater for science and technology. These advancements are held back by the religious agenda to spread the "truth". I mean, I was raised religious and I specifically remember my mother telling me not to worry about problems like global warming and deforestation because Armageddon is inevitable, and God will make things right again. Is this really what we need our children to be taking for fact? There are real problems out there that need to be dealt with, but meanwhile there are devout religious folk that fully support the wars that America is waging. What ever happened to "thou shalt not kill"? There are countless contradictions that are happening and have been happening for too long in the realm of organized religion. I think these are the things that allow for this animosity towards religion, and not so much "oh you believe in something that I don't".

i luffs yeww
02-27-2011, 07:33 PM
I agree with Wizzup? and gerauchert. Wizzup?'s arguments/whatevers are why I support religion, though.

Of course people use religion as an easy way out of dealing with some hard questions. If you disagree, look again. But taking away their answers (although they tend to consist of fallacy upon fallacy) won't help anyone, will it? What if tomorrow, a god appeared to the world and said "I exist. I am real. Science is flawed" etc. etc.? I'm sure most actual atheists would be shocked and devastated, especially if it said there was a hell and all of it's followers wouldn't go there, but all who didn't believe would. That's essentially what you're telling religious followers to believe (that they won't go to heaven, that their whole life of belief has been a complete and utter waste, and that they're wrong). That's why I have problems with people saying religion is inherently bad/wrong/whatever (at least toward religious people), and wanting them to believe what you believe.

And yes, religion has caused damage. But, so has everything. Religion is merely a scapegoat for people to enjoy conflict, in my opinion. It itself is not bad. Just because the Catcher in the Rye caused some bad stuff to happen doesn't mean that it's a bad or immoral book. It simply means that people should be raised to know that there are some things in this world that may sway you one way or another, but you shouldn't kill people for it, you shouldn't steal or defile anything for it, and you should learn to accept that other people will have other beliefs, and sometimes you will be wrong.

I dunno, I just think that both sides are kinda silly on the whole "no, you're wrong" debate. Everyone's right and everyone's wrong. I'm right for myself, but I'm wrong to, say, kingarabian. But I'd still rather him keep his religious beliefs, as I assume he'd be quite a depressed person, sadly, if he suddenly had evidence of his religion being completely wrong. (Not saying it is, even though it is. ;) <3 youuu king.)

Boreas
02-27-2011, 08:07 PM
I'm right for myself

If every religious person was like that, it would be great. But when there are leaders that are more likely to send people into dangerous situations because they believe in an afterlife, or parents destroying children's critical thinking skills (and resorting to threatening a fiery eternity to raise them), it hurts the whole world. If we want to do well as a species in the next century, we really need to get our act together.

HyperSecret
02-27-2011, 08:16 PM
Silly Christfags. ^^


I'm sincerely sorry and very proud of everyone who believes in a religion and follows it to any degree and doesn't feel ashamed to show it. Truly. :) I see assholes all the time bitching about religion and how it's false. So what if it is (not saying it is), Assholes? Why do you have to fight it? Why make peoples' lives worse for it? You're truly ignorant if you try to disprove religion and hurt people in the process, in my opinion..

Peace, yo. :p

Looks like you have become a little 'nicer' since the beginning of the thread...:)

josh81193
02-27-2011, 09:08 PM
I'm assuming this is an RS question :/.

That made me think, there is no proof for the Runescape gods, there's just items named after them and people that "follow" them! Do RS gods exist??

MIND = BLOWN


Too high to find the article(s) (lol some US marshals, a firetruck, and an ambulance were all here one after another for different reasons and I smoked out my window to everyone of them ;D)

Dude you're so hardxcore bro. I wish I was as cool as you. 420 four lyfe xD

i luffs yeww
02-27-2011, 09:58 PM
Looks like you have become a little 'nicer' since the beginning of the thread...:)

I've been a lot happier since this thread was made. I'm on medication (weed, medicinally, legitimately) and I'm more motivated, I'm happier and less of an asshole (as you can kinda tell in this thread) and have been helping more (my mom's going through chemo so I've been cleaning her whole house (she was a hoarder) and moved in with her to cook and clean and what not for her), doing better in school, and am going to be looking for a job soon and I'm sure that will help more.

:) I'm really.. shocked and glad that you noticed, actually. It means a lot that even someone who doesn't really know me other than from past actions sees a change.


That made me think, there is no proof for the Runescape gods, there's just items named after them and people that "follow" them! Do RS gods exist??

MIND = BLOWN



Dude you're so hardxcore bro. I wish I was as cool as you. 420 four lyfe xD

The rs gods thing is a common argument. Not literally rs gods, but any "god" that isn't generally now accepted as a god (Zeus, etc.). Decent argument, really. The Teacup that Wizzup? mentioned is the same idea.

And I was just smoking anyway at the time, it was just too good of an opportunity to pass up. xP

Naum
02-27-2011, 11:38 PM
That made me think, there is no proof for the Runescape gods, there's just items named after them and people that "follow" them! Do RS gods exist??

MIND = BLOWN



RS, for Religious Studies (GCSE), I used to do a similar specification to The Man.
His question was a simple 5 marker with two lines stating your opinion + 3/4 points = full marks.

doom0791
02-27-2011, 11:57 PM
Wizzup? pretty much summed up my entire set of beliefs regarding the topic.

http://atheistpictures.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/1105.jpg

TomTuff
02-28-2011, 12:13 AM
Wizzup get your hand out of my larynx :L

cycrosism
03-08-2011, 05:15 AM
God doesn't exist, and if he does, prove it. With PHYSICAL EVIDENCE. Not some book some dude wrote in a hut. It says in the bible that homosexuals should be stoned, now stone them fags you sinner!

grats
03-08-2011, 06:07 AM
God doesn't exist, and if he does, prove it. With PHYSICAL EVIDENCE. Not some book some dude wrote in a hut. It says in the bible that homosexuals should be stoned, now stone them fags you sinner!

It also says eating shrimp is a sin (any bottom feeder) shaving is a sin.. etc

If I wrote a story on how life came to be 4000 years ago it would be a religion today

i luffs yeww
03-08-2011, 06:35 AM
It also says eating shrimp is a sin (any bottom feeder) shaving is a sin.. etc

If I wrote a story on how life came to be 4000 years ago it would be a religion today

Well Zeus never really got the following he deserved, imo.

grats
03-08-2011, 06:47 AM
Well Zeus never really got the following he deserved, imo.

Probably because there's too much we "know" about him and he's too cool..

where as "god" is mysterious!!!!! woooo

i luffs yeww
03-08-2011, 06:53 AM
like a ghost. ;3 silly ghosts.

cycrosism
03-08-2011, 07:03 AM
It also says eating shrimp is a sin (any bottom feeder) shaving is a sin.. etc

If I wrote a story on how life came to be 4000 years ago it would be a religion today

http://cafewitteveen.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/v9wsn.jpg

grats
03-08-2011, 07:24 AM
http://cafewitteveen.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/v9wsn.jpg

I've done all of those sins, to hell I go!



I recommend everyone should watch this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGvRo-hir-w

i luffs yeww
03-08-2011, 08:50 AM
I've done all of those sins, to hell I go!



I recommend everyone should watch this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGvRo-hir-w

the wbc is fucking disgusting.

1337w33d
03-21-2011, 05:33 AM
the wbc is fucking disgusting.

Totally agree. The shit they do is just plain psychotic.

I'd like to wait until one of them dies, then drive a tank into the funeral services and say that GOD wants you all to be buried together. Dressed up as Jesus.

Tlachtli
03-21-2011, 07:06 AM
I've done all of those sins, to hell I go!



I recommend everyone should watch this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGvRo-hir-w

At 4:00, all I could think of was Harrison Ford yelling "How dare YOU, sir?!"

But seriously, women like her make me sick. Can't wait for her to have to answer to god for what she thinks his bible says.

NiCbaZ
03-24-2011, 12:35 PM
All I got from this thread is that crysosmiss (or whatever his name is) is extremely unintelligent.

masterBB
03-25-2011, 04:30 PM
That made me think, there is no proof for the Runescape gods, there's just items named after them and people that "follow" them! Do RS gods exist??

Prove of the rs gods exist. Every time I cast a magic spell....

Wardancer
12-10-2012, 03:09 AM
"If god existed we would be able yo prove it"
Do you agree?
Need full opinions xD

Cheers
T~M

No.

First, I have to say that I really don't want to attack this question from the ethnocentrist view of a north american coming from a catholic culture. The very definition of what "god" is/could be differs based on so many different sociological factors. We only have to think of the realm of possibilities between monotheism and pythagorean's religion (based on mathematics being the essence of all things). What I'm getting to is that the very concept of God is malleable. Therefore, we can't start picking one by one each possibility and try to refute them with science. Needless to say I'm agnostic.

Jake
12-10-2012, 03:11 AM
No.

First, I have to say that I really don't want to attack this question from the ethnocentrist view of a north american coming from a catholic culture. The very definition of what "god" is/could be differs based on so many different sociological factors. We only have to think of the realm of possibilities between monotheism and pythagorean's religion (based on mathematics being the essence of all things). What I'm getting to is that the very concept of God is malleable. Therefore, we can't start picking one by one each possibility and try to refute them with science. Needless to say I'm agnostic.
Last post of this thread was over a year ago.
Don't think it was a good idea to bump it.

DannyRS
12-10-2012, 03:11 AM
No.

First, I have to say that I really don't want to attack this question from the ethnocentrist view of a north american coming from a catholic culture. The very definition of what "god" is/could be differs based on so many different sociological factors. We only have to think of the realm of possibilities between monotheism and pythagorean's religion (based on mathematics being the essence of all things). What I'm getting to is that the very concept of God is malleable. Therefore, we can't start picking one by one each possibility and try to refute them with science. Needless to say I'm agnostic.

Holy GraveDig Batman!

Edit - Jakee beat me too it, but you should really check the date of last post before replying, as this discussion is most likely long over, as for the thread, no comment as my strong atheism will only offend people :D

NKN
12-10-2012, 03:17 AM
http://www.evilbible.com/

Just for some lulz

Rincewind
12-10-2012, 03:37 AM
Just let the thread die out, its not like debating about God on the internet will get you anywhere. I recomend talking/debating to people face to face and having to come up with ideas/counter ideas at the spur of the moment. Its really interesting.

DannyRS
12-10-2012, 03:43 AM
Just let the thread die out, its not like debating about God on the internet will get you anywhere. I recomend talking/debating to people face to face and having to come up with ideas/counter ideas at the spur of the moment. Its really interesting.

From experience, its really not a good idea, and not interesting, it always ends the same way, "no he doesent" "yes he does" etc etc, best to just accept other peoples views and move on to more productive and important things,

NKN
12-10-2012, 03:44 AM
To more productive and important things,
Like proving god isn't real.


Proof: One time, I shared a photo on facebook, that said you share, god will make your crush ask you out. She never did. I cried all nite long.

DannyRS
12-10-2012, 03:51 AM
Like proving god isn't real.


Proof: One time, I shared a photo on facebook, that said you share, god will make your crush ask you out. She never did. I cried all nite long.

Haha, cant argue with that proof,

Unfortunately, as long as "we cant prove its not real" its not going to change,

The fact "they cant prove it is real" doesent matter,

IMO you prove its real before telling me i can't prove it is not real, but oh well

Tlachtli
12-10-2012, 03:52 AM
It's actually really interesting that this thread came back up, just because I've noticed that my beliefs have changed over the last year.

I'm now what you'd call an agnostic theist--I like to believe the idea that there is a god, but at the same time recognize that there's no way we can feasibly prove one way or the other; to that end, I'd say let everyone believe what lets them sleep at night and drop it there.

As for the whole Atheism vs. Christianity thing that usually comes up in these threads, here's my two cents: I'm fine with the theory of Christianity--it's what I was raised to believe and the religion I can identify best with. My problem is not with the religion, but the people that follow it. Christians who interpret the Bible as written law really irk me, as having read through it multiple times I always got the impression that it was a collection of life lessons to be learned and not a set of rules to be followed.

If theists would start looking at the theory behind their religion and not just taking their holy books at face value, and if atheists would just accept that some people are more comfortable believing than not, we'd all get along so much better.

Rezozo
12-10-2012, 03:57 AM
Grave dig, already mentioned so yea...

Also, I never believed in god, and never believe that I will believe in god. However, if he exists, I can say now that I have a certain level of respect for him.

Hear me preach!
~Rez

DannyRS
12-10-2012, 04:01 AM
Grave dig, already mentioned so yea...

Also, I never believed in god, and never believe that I will believe in god. However, if he exists, I can say now that I have a certain level of respect for him.

Hear me preach!
~Rez

Its only a gravedig till its gone full zombie mode on your ass and its no longer dead rofl,

Would be nice if a mod locked it because these threads only lead to nothing but conflict, but i spose its not breaking any rules so?

Ian
12-10-2012, 04:14 AM
Here is my position: I wish I believed in reincarnation, it would be sorta cool, but I don't unfortunately. I can't change that.

Wardancer
12-10-2012, 10:29 AM
Oh my gosh, didn't realize it was such a grave dig.

Nonetheless, I don't mind being considered a "thread necrophile" as I think the question asked in the OP is very interesting. It isn't about whether or not you believe in God but rather whether you think it's possible to prove it or not. The twist of it can lead to an interesting discussion. I know plenty of theists that agree it can't be proven and atheists that feel like it could be proven so they refuse to believe in it. I believe and hope that it's possible to have a civil discussion about this.

Also, let's pretend I had a moment of illumination when I revived this thread and that I wanted to know if you changed your view in one year. Tlachtii's post is quite interesting about this aspect.

To go back on the actual topic (and try to move away from idle chatter), this subject makes me think of something a few philosophers like Descartes put forward: that the only proof we need to know that God exists is that some people believe in it. In a way, I can't deny this argument as it's true that, at least as a concept, God exists. Also, it goes without saying that, even in this form, God has dramatic effects on this world. We could have the same argument about any other concept and be unable to prove their existence without turning into fallacies. It's extremely difficult to prove that an incorporal thing like "democracy" exists in this world. I can easily argue that our elections are a mirage while someone else would insist that we live in a democracy.

As a last note, I feel like this section of the forum needs more love. I'm sure there are plenty of people here able to structure arguments and come up with a nice discussion, all the while respecting each other's beliefs and ideas.

xtrapsp
12-10-2012, 10:57 AM
*Insert witty comment about how I don't like Religion but make sure it's different to everyone else and cannot be counter argued*

NKN
12-10-2012, 11:40 AM
*Insert witty comment about how I don't like Religion but make sure it's different to everyone else and cannot be counter argued*I got this:

"The bible says so"

What makes the bible true?

"It's the word of god"

What makes god real?

"The bible says so"

John
12-10-2012, 11:48 AM
Before you can say God exists or not, you must first seek him.

NKN
12-10-2012, 11:53 AM
Before you can say God exists or not, you must first seek him.

He's Waldo's mentor.

DannyRS
12-10-2012, 11:55 AM
He's Waldo's mentor.

False. waldo can actually be found (hes always on the page somewhere even if you cant see him right away)

NKN
12-10-2012, 11:56 AM
False. waldo can actually be found (hes always on the page somewhere even if you cant see him right away)
I beg to differ.

I played Wheres Waldo on the internet. He wasn't there. Then the girl from the ring popped up on my screen and I peed a little.

DannyRS
12-10-2012, 11:58 AM
I beg to differ.

I played Wheres Waldo on the internet. He wasn't there. Then the girl from the ring popped up on my screen and I peed a little.

ah yes, well, welcome to the internet, enjoy your stay

xtrapsp
12-10-2012, 11:58 AM
I contributed to thread bump. I feel good

P1ng
12-10-2012, 01:08 PM
I was raised a Christian, sent to a Catholic school and grown up surrounded by Catholicism.

I do not believe there is/ever has been a "God". I do agree with many of the teachings and life-lessons in the bible. Although some of them are truly out-dated and others I completely disagree with. (Discrimination against homosexuals being one of the few).

People need to accept the bible for what it is. A story book. A book filled with tales, just like the ones our parents told us as children. While the events didn't necessarily take place (or maybe did, in a less exaggerated form) they are there to teach us a lesson.

These lessons I believe are very real. The existence of an actual "God", not so much. Due to my disbelief in his existence, I don't see how it would be possible to prove it.

DannyRS
12-10-2012, 01:25 PM
^^^ another reason i dont like religion, 90% try to force it onto others, thanks for sharing your opinion p1ng :)

i can see that because of what it is, there are probably some good lessons to be learned, but due to the majority focus of the text, i'm never going to go near it :)

Runehack123
12-10-2012, 03:58 PM
People need to accept the bible for what it is. A story book. A book filled with tales, just like the ones our parents told us as children. While the events didn't necessarily take place (or maybe did, in a less exaggerated form) they are there to teach us a lesson.

These lessons I believe are very real. The existence of an actual "God", not so much. Due to my disbelief in his existence, I don't see how it would be possible to prove it.

Every person is entitled to their own beliefs. Just because you feel this way doesn't mean the world needs to feel the same and people 'need to accept the bible for what it is'.

Also, do you really need proof to believe in something? A lot of great scientists were strong believers e.g. Albert Einstein.
What I'm saying is all the scientific proof contradicting itself with the bible and unrevealed mysteries didn't stop these people from believing in God or hinder their research.
When it comes to my personal beliefs I believe in the concept of evolution, but I still consider myself Christian.

Google
12-10-2012, 05:55 PM
I believe what p1ng had to say its impossible to even say there is a god or after-life because before our universe was created time did not exist, I was raised on being a catholic as well and all I got from the bible was a set of rules that essentially keep humans with standards of living, keeping us from being animals towards each-other.

I don't remember where I watched this but some a very interesting documentary with some of the smartest scientist to existence they explained how everything was created from nothing, and nothing was created from everything therefore there is no god and never needed a god to create anything.

But honestly who cares if one exists or not you were given the chance to live life, whether it does exist after death or not enjoy what you have and don't dwell on things that don't matter.

If the question was finally solved what would it even prove for us?

Kyle Undefined
12-10-2012, 06:13 PM
Yeah, threads like these never go anywhere.

I've had multiple discussions on this topic with friends, while having a nice beer. People expect me to not know anything about Christianity because I'm an Athiest. However, I was born and raised as a stout southern Baptist. I just couldn't take it anymore when I got older.

Vinyl Scratch
12-15-2012, 03:22 PM
I got this:

"The bible says so"

What makes the bible true?

"It's the word of god"

What makes god real?

"The bible says so"



Argued with a kid about this, but mine went a little different. (I'm athiest)

//After many minutes of argueing, here's the fun part.
Me: Dude, how can you prove the Bible's true?
Him: Because I read it.
Me: That doesn't make it true.
Him: Yes it does! The Bible told me it does!

I ended it there, and let him have this one.

Sawyer
02-10-2013, 06:50 AM
I am a believer, but I respect everyone's opinion. People who force their own beliefs on others leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I choose faith, but I guess we'll see who wins this argument in our end days, now won't we?