Morality of Cheating.

[Ruroken]

Well Fakawi said he wanted one so here we go.

Is cheating right? I mean is it fair to have people who work so hard on a game have it ruined by people who cheat?

On the other hand is it fair to make people play for such long amounts of time on a game...

Discuss

[WhiteShadow]

In a way it's wrong. It's against Jagex's set rules. Still though, it's not hurting anyone. So who cares?

We're not exactly clean people... ;D

[legendaryhero90]

who gives i say!

is it right for runescape to charging for membership!

the day they make runescape mem free is when i stop cheating

and who gives about jagex's rules!

they are meant to be followed yet people break then constantly meaning that cheaters are everywhere and the only way to beat them is to cheat...:confused:

we arent hurting anyone...
we arent killing anyone...
we arent harming those who ARE playing legit....

so why even give this a second thought :duh: ???

reality wise...
its the clever and smart that wins in the end :sasmokin:

[Ramage]

Honestly if it wasn't for all this macroing Willows will be 250gp each, Yews 500gp each, Coal 500gp each etc.

Macroing has made the economy what it is, and even if Jagex does not want to admit it; many people will quit because of 'over-priced' items. ...I think...

[Killerdou]

well i know a lot of legit players think its ruining the game for them, but when i ask why, it appears the are jalous

[Yakman]

i think this sort of cheating is fine, using our inteligence to get the better of the game, if jagex wanted to, or stopped us, thats find, but until then, we cheat

scar harms runescape a lot less than other autos, with scar you have to level up above 3, and switch scripts around to stop getting banned
what does harm runescape is masses and masses of level 3 people at essence mines or yew trees

[YoHoJo]

Its just a game.
We arent seriously hurting anyone, and we arent making too much of a big hub-ub.

Now arrayn i belive was wrong.
The bot was fine, but the scale it was being used on was just crazy.
Mainly beacsue of the multi client capability.

Now that, i acttually noticed on my main and got frustrated.

Also, the chinnese bot/farmers.
They are also a bit out of hand.
Iv noticed a few price changes due to them, but they are good and bad.

When im trying to sell something at normal price, they sell MORE for LESS.
But when i want to buy something i can get in bulk and cheap from them =).

Overall my point is, SCAR is great and inst making a bad impact or anything on runescape, i mean come on, we auto smartly and legit people don't notice. As far as they know, we are just another player in the RS world.

Al-La-Ka-Zam!

[botmaster]

They make a game for free - they invite cheaters.
Every game has cheaters.
They don't care about legit players - they invite more cheaters.
They make it so crappy you need to sit 3 hrs to level - they invite more cheaters.

Who gives a damn wether I cheat? If its anyones business, its NOT theirs. I decide what I do, and they can lick my d*** if they want me to stop.

If Jagex doesnt like cheaters, why do they bother making a game? GAMES ARE FOR CHEATERS!!!

[seanwid]

FIGHT THE CAPITALISTIC SYSTEM, bring it down by cheating!!!
We mess up their economy, we get alot of good stuff by cheating while some people 'work' pretty hard for it..
Fuck that, if they charge so much money for such a (crappy) game..
i'm sorry but who is the criminal..?

[Starblaster100]

Yes cheating is wrong.
I SCAR script because i wanted to learn programming, not to make pixel money.

[legendaryhero90]

Yes cheating is wrong.
I SCAR script because i wanted to learn programming, not to make pixel money.

pixel money is worthless...(unless you scam or sell it which i doubt anyone does...)

meaning our kind of cheating isnt harming anyone financially nor physically... :D

[WhiteShadow]

Yes cheating is wrong.
I SCAR script because i wanted to learn programming, not to make pixel money.

Me too. SCAR is pretty simple, and has little capabilities in comparison with others. If you want to be in the IT field when you grow up, (maybe your already really old? sorry then... haha..) You should try to move into more advance things, such as Java, Delphi, C++, Php, web design, and gfx. Which currently, I'm attempting to do on my free time. I'm pretty good at photoshop cs2, and know a bit of java now. :) If you own at those things already then cool, I just haven't seen you in any of those type of forum sections.. Don't take this as offending I already know I have a tiny scar/pascal experience compared to you.

[Jason2gs]

I hardly ever play RS legit anymore, meaning I have no need to make pixel money.

If I ever get around to it, I might try some RWIT to get some real cash, but it probably won't happen for a while. If ever.

So no, I don't think this is wrong.

I think when the Bible mentions cheating, it's refering to real-life situations. Not things like this.

Those are just my thoughts on this topic. I'm not trying to sell em as fact ;)

[c0de]

Alot of people cheat, if you can't win, join them!

[legendaryhero90]

Alot of people cheat, if you can't win, join them!

you cant win at RS... :f:

and if your main gets banned... you WILL want to cheat your way back up there :stirthepot:

[Dunceiam]

Well, let's change Runescape into McDonalds. Rip people off, make a lot of money, addictive. Let's see. I believe there are at least 100,000 people playing at any given time. Now, if you look at all the servers. The members servers all have more people then the free servers. So at any given moment 50,000 members are playing. But that's at any time. So in total (estimate) I'm guessing that there are 300,000 members. (Probably way off, but listen to the logic :p) 300,000 times $5 is $1,500,000. So 1.5 million dollars in a month. Let's say $500,000 is spent maintaining the servers/staff pay. That still leaves $1,000,000 per month. So that's ripping people off, and also that they have tons of money.

While McDonalds was made a multi-billion dollar company by Ray Kroc. He was a sales-man, who before he got into the McDonalds chain, he sold a machine that made Square Ice-Cream. Wasn't very succesful by the way. Then he met the Donalds brothers. They let him open one restaurant, it was such a success that he opened another, then another, then another. But then he owned about 40% of the McDonalds chain shares. So he was extremely powerful. (3 people in the chain, technically he had more power then the brothers who each had 30% or something.) So you know what Ray Kroc did? He forced the brothers to take control of a McDonalds, and rename it to "The Big M". (During some legal battle.) Then Ray Kroc, being a sales-man, opened a McDonalds right across the street from "The Big M". Instantly bankrupting The Big M, and taking 100% control of McDonalds. Then Ray Kroc, used children. Since children are the source of McDonalds cash flow today. They dressed all the restaurants up with toys, light colors, and of course, play-grounds. Kids just couldn't get enough of McDonalds after that! Every single meal nagging their parents! "Let's go to McDonalds!", "I'll never love you again if you don't take me!" The parents just thought it was a cheap, fast place to make their kids happy. A random statistic, if McDonalds put the right toy in a happy meal, it would boost sales by 500%.

Runescape is related to McDonalds for this addictivness! I remember quitting Runescape for a couple months, then I was bored one day and wallah! I was stuck in their circle of armor and demons. They make it fun, you want to be the next Zezima! You just can't get enough of showing noobs your millions of gp! You're stuck. Then...the members! They get all the benefits! Oooo...look at my dragon armor! Look at all the cool spells I can do! You want to experience it all, I remember thinking of stealing $5 from my parents just so I could afford membership. (Didn't though.)

So, you know what cheating did for me? It broke me out of this cycle. If Runescape can be rich, and have all the players it wants, then let them. But why should we follow the rules, and enter the "cycle". I personally, will never play Runescape legitly. Nor will I play Runescape much, but that's different. And as everyone else is saying, we are the base of their economy, we should really be the pmods. Without us, they will lose millions from people quitting runescape. We are the base, without us Runescape would crumple to the ground.

That's my speech! :D

-Dunceiam

[Yakman]

So, you know what cheating did for me? It broke me out of this cycle. If Runescape can be rich, and have all the players it wants, then let them. But why should we follow the rules, and enter the "cycle". I personally, will never play Runescape legitly. Nor will I play Runescape much, but that's different.

well said, i couldnt have said it better myself, you've outlined exactly what cheating did for me

[Ejjman]

Blah, thats happening to me right now. I really don't wanna let go. But think I might have to...cheating + legit = hardness :S

[Yakman]

Blah, thats happening to me right now. I really don't wanna let go. But think I might have to...cheating + legit = hardness :S

hang in there, it might be hard to let go of your legit playing, but afterwards, you just wont want it
remember you will always have your main, i can still log onto my main if i want, and i do it every time i need to get some money for autobuying or something

[WT-Fakawi]

I want to stick to game related ethical and moral issues, not real life. Let's for the sake of clarity compare the way we play runescape with some other game cheating situations:


- You play a card or board game with your friends and they all cheat on you. You loose.
- You play an online War Game and the enemy uses an aimbot to kill you over and over.
- Due to a bug in some game a large amount of players gain in a short time a huge advantage over others.
- You get killed by your "friends" ingame even though you made appointments not to. They doublecrossed you.
- Your best friend uses a method to gain advantage, but he wont let you in on his secret.


Point is: Cheaters ruin any game, they spoil the fun for non cheaters.
This is the dominant view on cheating. It is -in terms of the ruleset we have named "ethics"- unethical. You just dont do that. Right?

Well, this is to some degree at least part of the truth. But here are my RS-specific pov's:


Runescape has got to be one of the worst looking repetitive games ever. I have spent years behind my Commodore 64 and Amiga back in the late 80's on games that where more fun and better looking than RS. Really. Yes you can run it from any browser, but i'd rather have it good looking in its own client, tyvm, like any descent game. It's awesome repetitioness provokes in fact macroing. It is one of the first things you think of: Is this really neccesary? This is not funny anymore! Can't this be done automatically?
RuneScape is slooooow and it takes forever. All actions are deliberately slowed down just to keep you playing. Leveling from 1-94 requires as much XP as from 94-99. It is a never ending spiral. It literally takes you years to be a somebody on RS and by that time you have waisted 1000's of hours of precious time (+ 100$ minimum), and time is limited my friends, dont waist it. In that sense is RS an evil game and has and will continue to destroy hundreds of young lifes.
The RS - cheating hypocracy is maxed out at the Jagex forums. Where do you think merchanters with 100k+ of whatever have obtained their goods? Botting is one of the backdones of the Jagex Economy. If you eliminate all botting, you crash the RS-economy. Talking about bot, ever tried querying Jagex Forums for "bot"? Thread about bots are deleted within minutes. The audience is misguided and deliberately kept dum.
For me using SCAR on RS is challenging. I see it as a hobby. Where other people paint, build or collect stamps, I program. I play a game within the game itself, tricky and complicated. Positive sideeffect of it all is: I can teach others to program just by producing scripts and a backbone: SRL.
I have modelled SRL so that it attracts people that share my views. We cheat, but we dont abuse. On the contrary, if played well, nobody actually notices we aren't real-life players (which is no excuse I know...). But this is my challenge: staying alive.



I dont play RS anymore. It is a very provocative game IMHO.

[Dunceiam]

- You play a card or board game with your friends and they all cheat on you. You loose.
- You play an online War Game and the enemy uses an aimbot to kill you over and over.
- Due to a bug in some game a large amount of players gain in a short time a huge advantage over others.
- You get killed by your "friends" ingame even though you made appointments not to. They doublecrossed you.
- Your best friend uses a method to gain advantage, but he wont let you in on his secret.

I agree, but then again boardgames don't have millions of players. Nor do they depend on cheaters for the game to retain its popularity. And I totally agree with the fact that todays youth shouldn't spend hundreds upon hundreds of hours on a game, that doesn't mean anything to them in life. It doesn't educate them, teach them skills, and certainly doesn't teach someone something beneficial to their success in later life.


Point is: Cheaters ruin any game, they spoil the fun for non cheaters. I remember someone telling me about a game, silkroadonline. They told me that about 70% of all the players "macro" or cheat, but you don't neccesarily see the legit players leaving...?

A random thought that popped up, if Runescape was made easier to level up and make money and such. Would you guys still be playing it? Technically, they forced macroers upon themselves in a way.

-Dunceiam

[Ruroken]

@ Fakawi : Agreed.

But i still play, if only to PK with my friends :)