I see what you did there ;)
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cool!!
Ever considered that a vast amount of players bot? Banning all wouldn't be beneficial for their business plan? Jagex can't even deny that bots provide them with indirect revenue.
Sounds a bit like exploitation. RiD isn't a technical community yet you throw all these fancy fabricated terms as a selling point. Also best if RiD chooses staff which cant question his work I’m guessing? Yup, checks out for me.
It's not that he specifically chooses staff that aren't technical, as several of them are (including Usa, whom you may have heard of, as he's very well known in the botting industry, even since before many of us even started playing RS), but when you're a company, you hire people who possess the skills you require. It wouldn't make sense to hire a bunch of programmers if all you need is public relations staff.
Well this all comes down to your target audience? if you are targeting children with their mum's credit cards, sure you don't need have an understanding of computer science principles (technical). Just a few big words like 'Bio-metric' & 'Calibration'. But then your probably just need a parent friendly E-Cart.
If the target audience incorporated some of the existing botting community, you would at least expect the Genesis PR Stunt Crew to have a technical vocab and understanding for the question thrown at them.
That makes sense, I was unaware that they actually get paid for PR at RiD? So lets say the public wanted transparency on all these terms, biometrics and all that shit... How would PR handle that? I mean they aren't technically capable so it'd be pretty impossible without RiD himself telling them what to say - counter productive; I see redundancy in this.
I'm also quite surprised that RiD is paying people - if anything i'd go as far to call BS on this although a friend suggested that RiD gave out blow-jobs as per payment, could this be true? Programmers come in the plenty around these parts, pretty sure they'd be better representatives. PR skills are jack shit if you don't know your product. When you're in a company you hire the best person you can for the job; not those who possess the skills.
I can't say i have heard of Usa. Has anyone heard of Usa? What's the deal with Usa?
Either way, everyone has doubts because you guys at RiD are sketchy as fuck. Can't really expect to promise a release for 2 years and then be completely locked off about your platform.
I will say those mouse movements look pretty sexy. Otherwise not impressed. We just would need some better mouse functions (if we don't already - just ignore me I haven't been around in ages). Don't suck me back in!!
Ahh, that's what I was thinking, but it surprised me that somebody would think that RID/Genesis is at the point to where it has beaten SRL on all fronts when you are lucky to be able to make a simple bank standing script work for more than a few minutes with it.. Not to mention that you had to wait 2 years and spend $200+ in order to be able to make said bank standing script.. People make me wonder sometimes..
Genesis is only in closed beta, unlimited/Lifetime VIP offers unlimited credits/hours for botting (Unlimited was also offered way back around 2010, and was valued at around 500$), Closed Beta Access is part of the current unlimited offer. Open Beta is happening soon.
Point is, closed beta is just something extra, it's there to show RiD's appreciation. It isn't a "Buy now and get closed beta access" offer, though some new users are making it out to be. The entire point to Unlimited/LifeTime VIP is the unlimited hours/credits with a 72 hour daily botting cap, and RiD has repeatably said "Only buy if you plan on using Genisis for years to come"
Not to mention a lot of the new Lifetime VIP/Unlimited Members all bought unlimited with the money they made by using RiD's previous bots.
Overall, I can't stress enough that learning to script is so much more beneficial than using something like Genesis. After picking up Pascal/Lape I've now learned Java, and i'm sure picking up C++ won't be much of an issue for me. In the era we're in it can be extremely beneficial, and there's very little reason not learning Pascal/Lape, it's an extremely easy language to learn.
So, if Genesis turns out to be much faster/patched up than it's current state, then i'm going to use it to do basic tasks, I bought Unlimited/VIP and i'm going to put it to use. Though I don't ever see Genesis doing something like Slayer or Dung, and IMHO I think RiD should have continued updating his bots, and releasing new ones.
Glad to see the post count go up on this thread finally, unfortunately some posts are extremely unhelpful. I started this to gain information that I would never get out of RiD himself.
Bashing it helps nobody but RiD as the thread will descend into pettiness and be closed.
Right now with the video I have seen it looks like a very unfriendly user interface.
Would I be right in guessing that the initial set up is just writing the bits of code?
@BottingFTW;
Creating an environment definitely has a learning curve but ultimately no, don't listen to what people are saying regarding it being the same as writing code because it's so far from it. Once it's done (remember it's not even a necessity to create an environment, you can just use the pre-made one) you just need to record yourself play and the bot will piece all the 'states' together automatically. Whether this will be the case or not when we get to the stages of creating more advanced bots, I don't really know yet.
If you had bothered to pay attention in miss Dunbarr's reading classes you'd have realized I was talking about USA. I'll spit it out since you haven't worked it out yet, being an SRL member USA has beat you on this front (SRL), since you're just a junior. Tribot admin, I safely assumed you aren't one and was a mod at some point on RiD.
Sometimes I think you guys are more obsessed with RiD than the fanboys lmao.
Honestly.. I don't know who the hell miss Dunbarr is, nor should i want too.. because as i quote "being an SRL member USA has beat you on this front (SRL)"; SRL stands for? SRL RESOURCE LIBRARY. Clearly Dunbarr assisted you with your reading skills or you would have taken note that the SRL platform - Is A Library Resource for Education.
Secondly could you please direct me a project here at SRL that has be in the making for 4 or more years? You will find here as SRL that as a younger team start having their input a new include and library is written the capabilities and direction change from time to time SRL / SRL6 / OSR / OSRS-Reflection Aero/Lib, OGLib (apparently - I dont play rs3 =P) and now what everyone is really waiting for "PUMBA"!
Most of the old-timers here have had there dash; with making code for games and have moved onto 'Much' bigger projects than trying to solve RiD Genesis, big Pink Elephant in the Room - "Mouse-Movements" which most of the botting community agrees has no connection to ban rates what so ever.
I know this wasn't directed at me but Tribot!? or to use some admin title as credentials?? I am proud! to say i am all SRL; i have never used a script or bot besides SCAR -> Simba
I wish i got to try genesis in its previous version; just for curiosity and see for myself why the hype has survived more than 4 years of pre-orders and set-backs.
** but then again how would i; i have never really venture far from SRL in terms on scripting, maybe loyalty and maybe i'm more interested in the production of sound/logical code, then using somebody elses i can't even peak into; and I never even heard of genesis until this post, but that also could be because i'm a hermit.
SRL stands for SRL Resource Library :p
Stay on topic guys...
I just took a quick glance at their available bots, and I have to say....
what is the difference between them and a mouse-recorder other than the fact that they have amazing mouse randoms.
with the scripts they have available / possible. there isnt even a need to go 250% with mouse-randoms.
I was hoping to see some more ' advanced ' scripts that do more than just fletch an item or clean herbs :|
( actually all the scripts look like they involve basic mouse-movements )
* NOTE *
i have no dived deep into the forum to get a full understanding. this is just my opinion from skimming the surface of RiD.
Attempting to bring things back on topic:
They do not get paid nowadays, iirc they were only paid to do support tickets back when there were a lot more members. As we know, RiD is more of a behind-the-scenes guy and so he says something, and the staff reciprocate it. The platform has always been pretty black boxed, in terms of information about it, since 2007, and ultimately people still use it. Some people only care about outcomes, not what lead to them *shrug*
Now, I'm not saying myself or others wouldn't want to know how things work, because we do, but ultimately, some people want a product that "just works."
Here is a list of all the bots RiD had prior to Genesis development (as one developer):
Magic Training Arena
Blacksmith (also supported superheat + smithing simultaneously)
Pest Control
Powerminer (with mousekey dropping)
Ivy Cutter
Cooking
Agility
Thieving (Including blackjacking and Monkey Knife Fighters)
Crafting
Construction
Fishing (including high alchemy + fishing simultaneously)
Firemaking
RiDiverse (Can train crafting, fletching, herblore, cooking, magic)
Genesis is meant to replace all of these and more.
If something just works, why change it? What is wrong with the current version of RiD that only Genesis will solve? I don't remember hearing about RiD users being banned, or being broken in any way. Seems like this Genesis project is way too much and may not ever be finished. Forgive me if I'm mistaken, there's a lot to read and I'm just trying to figure out the point of Genesis.
There's a few main reasons why RiD decided to trash what was, and upgrade to Genesis:
-Rather than need to manage 17+ different bots every time graphics are changed, Genesis allows users to update their bots easily whenever things change, meaning RiD only has to develop the platform, not micromanage each bot.
-There were some users banned using the Divination open beta. The reasons for this were believed to have been avoidable under a closed beta; however, there were some other bits of information about this incident that are kept under lock and key (some of which I helped uncover) that made RiD want to upgrade his systems.
-RiD understands that RS is slowly dying, and wants to offer a system that allows users to bot both RS and other games, without him having to micromanage everything.
-RiD wanted users to have added customization and functionality along with the ability to fix their own run-time errors.
-In regard to biometrics, RiD wanted to be ahead of the game, in the event that Jagex started implementing advanced behavior analysis. This point is less pertinent than the others, but he'd rather kill multiple birds with one stone if he can.
I'm sure there are other reasons I'm forgetting about, but those are the main ones that I can think of. To address your concern of the project never being finished, despite the hiccups we've had in beta thus far, RiD has been updating things pretty frequently and improving functionality at a noticeable rate. Some users are already botting several hours at a time, which for something that has yet to hit v0.20, is quite promising to the expectation that things will meet expected standards. The platform itself will of course always undergo updates and receive additional features and functionality, but I'm confident based on what I've seen and experienced, that it will definitely meet release standards.
He should only have to update one thing if "the graphics change", unless he doesn't use his own private API, though he might have to re-scan world objects, but again if he's smart he would've developed a tool for himself to use that'd make it simple. On top of that it's rare that major changes occur that'd require a weeks worth of RiD's time. No to mention like 80% of the current userbase at RiD would rather bot OSRS over RS3, and the private bot VIP's had access to was still running perfectly fine after several years behind doors, that was until the logout button on OSRS was moved.
Something tells me you're just attempting to boaster, like you usually do. Most of the bans were all temp or simple level/bank rollbacks, to me it sounded like Jagex gambled and managed to catch some RiD users, but at the same time they weren't even sure if the players they did catch were even botting. Why would they be so lenient?
I say this all the time as well, good biometrics can keep you ahead of the game, but using mouse movement analysis isn't viable. It takes a lot of server-resources to do so, and you're so much better off simply analyzing if the player is using a simulated mouse, or going as far as scanning the current running programs on the computer itself. It's easier, and cheaper. As much as I bother Clarity about his biometrics include, there's barely any reason to use biometrics anymore, but to capitalize on Biometrics, to me, is stupid and a waste of time. It's something nice to have, but it doesn't make much of a difference.
RuneScape probably won't die for another few years, in fact it might actually be a long-ways away due to goldfarmers/the RWT market. I'd rather Genesis come out in 5 years while we can still use OSRS bots, and using "It'd take time away from RiD working on Genesis" really isn't a valid excuse, many bots were working perfectly fine and would only require attention if something breaks, and I can only think of 5 updates at most that would've broken bots, but it still should have only taken several days to fix at most, that is if you actually know what you're doing.
Yeah.. from that list you just posted everything is basic color find + mousing... not too convinced about the hype :|
I don't think it'd take much to do mouse movement analysis. It wouldn't be done server sided anyway. It'd/s be/ing done client-sided.
@Trent!; Sounds like a lot of you guys are blinded by wanting something that 'just works'. Not really considering what is feasible and what isn't.
It's not as simple as just updating graphics for each bot (especially accounting for the fact that there's a large number of locations necessary for that), but with small changes, certain bits of functionality can sometimes be compromised and require further time and effort to diagnose. Updating for graphics is just the first step. Sure, some of these changes may be small, but when you have 17 products, and more being developed, it just makes sense to build a system that doesn't need micromanaging. To quote several CEOs of various tech companies, "If you can allow a user to solve their own problem, do it."
First of all, I'm not boasting, at all, actually. Remember that your pessimistic attitude is one of the main reasons so many people don't like you over at RiD. Regardless of that, I didn't uncover the information that RiD found useful, I was merely a middle man, connecting RiD to the source of the information, after reviewing said information. One thing you're going to have to accept, is that there's a lot of things that go down behind the scenes that no one sees or hears about except RiD and his staff. Things of which no one would believe unless they saw the physical proof. I know because I have seen some of what's in there, and for as low as my position was, and as long ago as I was in there, I can guarantee there are more goodies that even I did not have the clearance to access. This sort of thing is not specific to RiD's site, as I can guarantee that some of the other major sites also have their own fair share of secrets. That's a natural fact of almost any industry.
Second of all, my statement was more of the big picture. The Divination beta was merely one example, and what was uncovered was only partially related to this incident.
If you don't want to believe me on this, then don't? Your choice to believe it doesn't affect me so I don't care what you choose to do with this information.
As Kasi said, mouse movement analysis isn't as resource heavy as you seem to think. Programs already exist that record movements, and they're not that resource intensive. In addition, it would be pointless to analyze everyone's movements at the same time. What would be more realistic, is having movement analytics placed somewhere in the tiered detection system, only using them when appropriate. Don't forget that if you check Jagex's hiring habits over the last couple years, they've hired on mass quantities of data analysts and contracted with many specialists in this area. They've also stated that a big reason for this move was in the effort to fight bots. The talent and technological capabilities are there, it's just a matter of when they decide to implement it on a large scale.
While we know that scanning programs or checking for a simulated mouse would be a good idea for Jagex to do, ultimately there's legalities they have to worry about and even then, they simply haven't chosen to do that just yet, and even if they did, as has been discussed before, working around this would be RiD's #1 priority if and when this issue should appear.
While you may not believe RS is dying, the statistics show otherwise:
http://puu.sh/m3MkP/1df0b119c2.png
Global interest in RuneScape is at an all time low, and doesn't even seem to be spiking at all like years previous. The game might continue, but interest is dying out.
As someone who has seen RiD produce new bots from behind the scenes, from the amount of time I've seen it take him to produce just one bot while also managing the others, Genesis development would have taken 3-4 years easily to reach where it has now. So much changes in a year, let alone 4. Even then, all those updates and time and effort would literally be wasted because all of that code would be scrapped with the release of Genesis. While yes, his users suffered by not having bots for 2 years, sometimes a company isn't only about the users. A company must think about the best course of action for the company's well-being and future.
If you research the most important things for the success of a company, according to thousands of CEOs in the world, you'll find that Innovation is the dominant choice. This is exactly why it's important to continue to make changes, even if something is working. I've spent quite some time reading case studies and researching companies on that topic, and so many have gone bankrupt under the belief that they didn't need to innovate.
Could you elaborate on your last sentence? I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, I'm curious.
I'm pretty sure Brandon talked about it a bit before in another Thread, Clarity has mentioned it multiple times on Skype. The tl;dr of it I believe was that it wasn't worth the amount of resources it'd take to do so in mass. It's a matter of taking in all that mouse data then processing it.
That contradicts what you've said about having biometrics, if RiD was trying to stay ahead of the game, he would have taken care of this issue. Here you're saying only when it becomes a problem he'll take care of it.
Must it? That seems kind of contradictory to me, what with RiD spending hundreds of man-hours developing a project targeted at a dying game with an ever-shrinking community.
Especially since he plans to monetize this product and build a company around it, doesn't this seem like a poor end-game goal for a company to have?
I mean, Glider made millions. And WoW is still around, and remains as popular as ever.
actually, wow follows the same pattern as rs..
https://www.google.com/trends/explore#q=%2Fm%2F021dvx
https://www.google.com/trends/explor...=Etc%2FGMT%2B5
kind of? WoW's trend seems far less severe.