God

God in my opinion is not real. I am a strictly rational person and I only conclude on cold, hard evidence. I believe god does not exist. He's a figment of people's imagination for centuries.

God was, in my opinion, conjured to give people strength. Nothing gives more hope to a man than knowing a higher power is watching over them lending them strength. God was just a being, an almight, all- powerful being who was there to fill in the spots that science was not able to fill. As science is solving all of life's problem, there is becoming little need for god. What has God done? Give you a nice fancy car? A nice job with a nice rich house? Has he given us a world without Genocide? Without Oil? Without greedy people?

God does not exist. Period.

Yet I fail to understand why some poor sod would believe in god and waste their time on Sunday to go sit on pews to listen to some pastor drone on about a being whose deeds are so great, yet still not evident in the world.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4fQA9mt-Mg

Just a light notification, these kind of topics are very controversial and will easily turn into flaming. Might it do so i will be forced to close it. Try to stay civilised.

I'll try to minimize flaming and rants as much as I can, but its not under my power. :)

I agree with Kobra, I don't believe in god too.
I think there is more evidence for the church of the flying spaghetti monster then for god. At least the pastafarians have some good arguments why it exists.

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Originally Posted by markus

I agree with Kobra, I don't believe in god too.
I think there is more evidence for the church of the flying spaghetti monster then for god. At least the pastafarians have some good arguments why it exists.

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Haha are these endorsements true?

http://www.venganza.org/evidence/endorsements1

That's fucking hilarious, if you get a doctorate and you endorse a crackpot stunt like this :p

Read the whole site and the reasons why they did it.
It was a protest against a decission of the Kansas schoolboard to teach intelligent design (god) at schools.

RAmen

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Originally Posted by VG_Kobra

Yet I fail to understand why some poor sod would believe in god and waste their time on Sunday to go sit on pews to listen to some pastor drone on about a being whose deeds are so great, yet still not evident in the world.

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Why? That's easy...because they're afraid of what people would think of them if they stopped coming to church.

Well, here's a debate that has been inherent and ongoing since what..uh...the dawn of mankind?

I don't consider myself a theologian, not by any means, but I do believe devoutly in God and Jesus Christ. However, I am NOT a creationist, and do believe that God and science can co-exist, regardless of whether some believe that..."As science is solving all of life's problem, there is becoming little need for god".

I am also a very rational person however it is human nature to want to believe in things that aren't tangible. Just as science has theories of where the universe came from, is it not fair, not right for religion to theorize about the origins of the universe?

Let's examine one of the most widely proliferated scientific theories of creation: the "Big Bang". I'm no astronomer but as far as I know the theory is as follows. At some point, for some reason, an extremely dense pocket of matter and space exploded and started expanding and formed what is today our universe.

I can't really prove or disprove this unless I go back billions, maybe trillions of years. But this theory centres around one thing: there was that pocket of matter in space. Where did this matter come from? Did it simply "come into existence"? Well, that's possible, but only with the help of a higher power, God. For life to exist in our universe, many things had to occur favourably, and everything had to come from somewhere. I find it too hard to believe that this is a coincidence.

Now its all well and good for people to say that God doesn't exist, because he doesn't send angels to bring you good fortune, nor does he use his power to protect everyone from harm.

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What has God done? Give you a nice fancy car? A nice job with a nice rich house? Has he given us a world without Genocide? Without Oil? Without greedy people?

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No offence, but I find this attitude rather cynical. ( I hope nobody attributes this as "flame"). The only reason that there are wars and greedy people is that God gave us free will when he created us. Of course he has a plan for us, but he does not force people to accept it.

What has God ever done? Well, aside from creating us, redeeming us from sin by sacrificing his own son, and bestowing his love on us each and every day...well...I suppose not much. But if that's not good enough for you, I don't know what is.

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Originally Posted by A G E N T 83

No offence, but I find this attitude rather cynical. ( I hope nobody attributes this as "flame").

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Nop, handled like a mature person. As long as it stays with discussions its ok ...

I'd like to believe he could excist, but i'd rather live my life in my way and not the way put into example from the bible.

So put me down as a aetheist, doesn't believe in god but likes the idea

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Originally Posted by A G E N T 83

Well, here's a debate that has been inherent and ongoing since what..uh...the dawn of mankind?

I don't consider myself a theologian, not by any means, but I do believe devoutly in God and Jesus Christ. However, I am NOT a creationist, and do believe that God and science can co-exist, regardless of whether some believe that..."As science is solving all of life's problem, there is becoming little need for god".

I am also a very rational person however it is human nature to want to believe in things that aren't tangible. Just as science has theories of where the universe came from, is it not fair, not right for religion to theorize about the origins of the universe?

Let's examine one of the most widely proliferated scientific theories of creation: the "Big Bang". I'm no astronomer but as far as I know the theory is as follows. At some point, for some reason, an extremely dense pocket of matter and space exploded and started expanding and formed what is today our universe.

I can't really prove or disprove this unless I go back billions, maybe trillions of years. But this theory centres around one thing: there was that pocket of matter in space. Where did this matter come from? Did it simply "come into existence"? Well, that's possible, but only with the help of a higher power, God. For life to exist in our universe, many things had to occur favourably, and everything had to come from somewhere. I find it too hard to believe that this is a coincidence.

Now its all well and good for people to say that God doesn't exist, because he doesn't send angels to bring you good fortune, nor does he use his power to protect everyone from harm.



No offence, but I find this attitude rather cynical. ( I hope nobody attributes this as "flame"). The only reason that there are wars and greedy people is that God gave us free will when he created us. Of course he has a plan for us, but he does not force people to accept it.

What has God ever done? Well, aside from creating us, redeeming us from sin by sacrificing his own son, and bestowing his love on us each and every day...well...I suppose not much. But if that's not good enough for you, I don't know what is.

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Agreed fellow Canadian :p Pretty much stole my thoughts and typed em up :)

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Originally Posted by A G E N T 83

I can't really prove or disprove this unless I go back billions, maybe trillions of years. But this theory centres around one thing: there was that pocket of matter in space. Where did this matter come from? Did it simply "come into existence"? Well, that's possible, but only with the help of a higher power, God. For life to exist in our universe, many things had to occur favourably, and everything had to come from somewhere. I find it too hard to believe that this is a coincidence.

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I have a question...

You said the pocket of mass that became the big bang had to have come from somewhere, and everything has to come from something, then where did God come from? Has he/she always existed? I'm not trying to flame you, it's an honest question

the debate on wether or not god exists is no fun at all, but debating on why most leading cultures believe in god is fun:), even now, western europe + usa uses all morals from christianity so i consider them believing in a god aswell... so why is this helpfull for surviving? any ideas?

No flame...umm...taken? That's the very essence of why God must exist, he is a HIGHER power. Christians call these things that nobody can understand "sacred mysteries", only God in him omniscience can know how. God was not created, so it's hard for anyone to justify or explain where He came from. Good question though, you've stumped me.

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Originally Posted by lolpie

Why? That's easy...because they're afraid of what people would think of them if they stopped coming to church.

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Exactly so what that means is that society has set a standard for people to follow. If you do not believe in god you'll be deemed an outcast. This is what happens in America, incase you have not noticed, politics in America is very much like a Church. All the presidents so far have been Christian, one of them was a Catholic, the other, Protestants. Most recently Bush has vetoed a bill fo Stem Cells, yet another example of a Bible Belt Lobbyist. God is mythical, and yet he is controlling most governments and most aspects of our modern day life.
Man is not left to think for himself anymore. Everything he does must bind to the Holy Bible, because that 2000 year old book apparently teaches the right way to do things.

God, Religion, all these things when the stream into politics and brainwash people. Terrorism (Islamic factions) and Religious Wars (Palestine and Isreal) commence.

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Originally Posted by A G E N T 83

I don't consider myself a theologian, not by any means, but I do believe devoutly in God and Jesus Christ. However, I am NOT a creationist, and do believe that God and science can co-exist, regardless of whether some believe that..."As science is solving all of life's problem, there is becoming little need for god".

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This coming from a Christian is noble. However some of your fellow Christians are against scientific progress. For example as I noted above, Stem Cell research. First the Christian Coalition in America used fetuses as an example as crime against humanity so we stopped. Then we started using the Umbilical Cords as they contained Stem Cells as well. And what does Bush (The Bible Belt Lobbyist) do? He vetoes the bill. Come up with an explanation for that.

Science and God in my opinion cannot co-exist because all the mysteries and answers God used to represent are being proven by Science. We started with the Heliocentric Model and we are still answering most of life's question. God will solely become a personal thing. If people still manage to believe in him then it will be to comfort them emotionally or mentally. Something which Science will never be able to do without drugs.

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Originally Posted by A G E N T 83

I am also a very rational person however it is human nature to want to believe in things that aren't tangible. Just as science has theories of where the universe came from, is it not fair, not right for religion to theorize about the origins of the universe?

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Absolutely, anyone can theorize about anything. But the fact that the Universe came about through the Big Bang or some other Cataclysmic force is much more feasible than the theory of Genesis where the idea is *Poof* there it is. As technology advances we are able to see and solve more things. Idk if you have heard but there is a large project going on in Geneva with something called a LHC- LArge Hadron Collider, the project aims to answer the question of creation by creating life, many universes in one small area. Read an overview here: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...icle642339.ece

One more way Science is trying to answer life's questions.

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Originally Posted by A G E N T 83

Let's examine one of the most widely proliferated scientific theories of creation: the "Big Bang". I'm no astronomer but as far as I know the theory is as follows. At some point, for some reason, an extremely dense pocket of matter and space exploded and started expanding and formed what is today our universe.

I can't really prove or disprove this unless I go back billions, maybe trillions of years. But this theory centres around one thing: there was that pocket of matter in space. Where did this matter come from? Did it simply "come into existence"? Well, that's possible, but only with the help of a higher power, God. For life to exist in our universe, many things had to occur favourably, and everything had to come from somewhere. I find it too hard to believe that this is a coincidence.

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Right now you may be a skeptic but once again read this http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...icle642339.ece

When the project is ready and the LHC is fired up the concluding evidence will make a believe out of you.

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Originally Posted by A G E N T 83

Now its all well and good for people to say that God doesn't exist, because he doesn't send angels to bring you good fortune, nor does he use his power to protect everyone from harm.

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It's all well to say God doesn't exist because there is no proof, forget the damn Angels or Messiahs or w/e. Is there a slight chance or even whiff of his existence? There is none, thats why its so hard to believe. It's like saying I saw Santa Clause, everyone knows thats a lie, but people still believe in Jesus. Who just Santa Clause has not been seen.

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Originally Posted by A G E N T 83

No offence, but I find this attitude rather cynical. ( I hope nobody attributes this as "flame"). The only reason that there are wars and greedy people is that God gave us free will when he created us. Of course he has a plan for us, but he does not force people to accept it.

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There is no proof that god created us, therefore its not a valid conclusion. I do agree with you that humans are the fault. Humans have greed, ego and desires built into them, which creates such Chaos, but my statement was if God is so kind and powerful, why hasn't he stopped it? Maybe because there is no such thing as god.

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Originally Posted by A G E N T 83

What has God ever done? Well, aside from creating us, redeeming us from sin by sacrificing his own son, and bestowing his love on us each and every day...well...I suppose not much. But if that's not good enough for you, I don't know what is.

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All those things are fictitious, the fact the he reincarnated is absurd, I can't believe people still believe in it. You argue good but all your statements are unfounded, You cannot build a building without a foundation, because if you do it comes crumbling down.

I am glad to see a thread on the matter of religion considering most threads up to this have had something to say on the matter.

One thing I'd have to say is not to blindly follow Science or Religion and keep an open mind.

Science is forever changing, and I think it would be a bit naive to think that we are able to know everything at this point. From the world being flat to theories on how the moon formed and global warming.

On Religion many cultures used Gods for things they have didn't understand. We still debate our purpose on life, we still don't know much about the possibility of an after life, and why are we who we are considering all the other creatures on this planet.

I've heard about the Large Hadron Colliders and other such devices of science before; likewise, I have heard of the theory that by descending into certain particles, it could be that you might discover another universe, likewise, we may be encapsulated in a particle somewhere.

From my worthy opponent who has criticised my arguments for being groundless, I think that arguing on the basis of results that we have yet to receive is a bit dodgy, however, I'll play along.

(P.S. You linked to an article about the Higgs boson, purported creator of mass "fields", don't know if that has to do with universe-within-universe).

As is the mark of any gifted debater, you have eloquently deconstructed my rash arguments and nicely glossed or skipped over the more significant ones. Let me return to one of my more important arguments.

Now all this talk about bosons, quarks, mesons, leptons, I-can-go-on-and-ons ( :P ) is very interesting, and a very controversial theory. Problem for those who believe that God does not exist is that there has to be that one particle at the top of the "chain", if you will, that spawned all of the smaller universes inside of it. Where did it come from? Why was it created? There has to have been something or someone that was there before it to have created it. We're left with few options on how to explain this miraculous appearance: namely, a higher power-God.

Now this may be hard to conceive or explain; how can God always have existed, if he didn't come into existence, how can he always have existed? No living person knows, nor will any living person ever know.

As much as I do believe in many scientific facts and am open to many theories, including the aforementioned, there is always that that one thing that roots my belief that God must exist. For whichever particle, or pocket of matter, or whatever science may make up in the future, it has to have come from somewhere. God.

Onwards to your arguments, I'll kick it off with your Santa Clause-Jesus analogy. Unlike Santa, Jesus was not a corporate invention. It's easy enough to discredit the Bible as falsehood or storytelling, but aside from Christians who believe in him in faith, the Jews historically acknowledge him as a prophet, although they do not believe in his divinity.

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All those things are fictitious, the fact the he reincarnated is absurd, I can't believe people still believe in it.

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Now, if you met a person at random on the street at random and struck up a conversation with them (this is somewhat absurd), you could tell them that two groups of people believed that a) in the air around them, amongst the molecules, inside the atom, if they looked closely enough they would find a universe, and b)2000 years ago a man was crucified, died, and was resurrected from the dead, they would probably say that both are about equally likely. Is it really that "absurd"?

Enough of that. To Vicious:

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I am glad to see a thread on the matter of religion considering most threads up to this have had something to say on the matter.

One thing I'd have to say is not to blindly follow Science or Religion and keep an open mind.

Science is forever changing, and I think it would be a bit naive to think that we are able to know everything at this point. From the world being flat to theories on how the moon formed and global warming.

On Religion many cultures used Gods for things they have didn't understand. We still debate our purpose on life, we still don't know much about the possibility of an after life, and why are we who we are considering all the other creatures on this planet.

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I agree completely. There is a lot we don't know about God and science. They should be kept in balance.

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Originally Posted by A G E N T 83

Onwards to your arguments, I'll kick it off with your Santa Clause-Jesus analogy. Unlike Santa, Jesus was not a corporate invention. It's easy enough to discredit the Bible as falsehood or storytelling, but aside from Christians who believe in him in faith, the Jews historically acknowledge him as a prophet, although they do not believe in his divinity.

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Actually Santa was a real person. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santa#A...istian_origins

The only reason he's still around now, though, is money hungry corporations (okay, that's a little exaggerated, but you get the point, right?)

Agnostic. I want solid proof. I might not totally believe in God, but I do still have morals. I don't mind that Bush vetoed the bill against embryonic stem cells, as it technically is killing a human life. I don't agree with abortion, as it's basically the same thing.

I could care less about the whole gay rights thing. If they want to be married, then let them be. It's really a violation of the Constitution if they are not allowed.

I DO support religion though. It gives people morals and values. It helps keep kids in line. Those who have attended both private(Christian) schools and public schools should be able to attest to that.

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Originally Posted by crossback7

...I don't mind that Bush vetoed the bill against embryonic stem cells, as it technically is killing a human life. I don't agree with abortion, as it's basically the same thing.

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If a child were to be born to an underage woman, who was raped by her father and did not want to have the child, shouldn't she be allowed to choose not to have it? Not to mention certain abortions are given before any actual life has began to form, or something along the lines of that. And what about the more recent thing Bush did? I forget what it's called, but it basically made it so that if a pregnant women is dieing, and if they were to take the baby out early she would live, but the baby would die, they are not allowed to do so. They must allow both her and the baby to die. So, abortion should be up to the woman, not the government. The government shouldn't be able to tell her what to do with her body. And as for stem cell research, well if people were allowed to get abortions already, then why not put it to good use?

Sorry if any of this sounds like flaming..But i just hate Bush so much :fiery:

As for me, i don't know which one i'd be classified as. I believe in God and Jesus, but i don't really follow any church or find myself agreeing with them on most issues. Every religion has such large flaws in it (and i don't mean in the ideas they preach, but in the way that they preach them) that i simply can't say which one i am. So i dunno what that classifies as, but if it's one of the ones on the poll lemme know and i'll vote it :p

But i can say, that following anything blindly will not end well. I personally can't stand people who a blindly religious, but that applies elsewhere than only religion.

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Originally Posted by lolpie

Actually Santa was a real person. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santa#A...istian_origins

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Ofcourse I'm real!

There are parts of religion I think are good and parts I think are bad.

good:

• give people morals
• tells people how to live their lives
• gives some kind of meaning in life
• hope

bad:

• people seem to throw their morals out the window when it comes to killing/hating people of other religions
• i think most of religion is too arbitrary. i dont think anything should change on a whim or because its popular (burning of witches, books of the bible, etc)
• people think religious people are more moral than non-religious people
• people can be blind/ignorant

you shouldnt pull in facts when debating about religion; the core of religion is faith and belief, and that doesnt require proof

anybody hear of joseph campbell? i think his ideas about the role of mythology in society (how you relate yourself to the universe) are pretty good

basically, whatever can answer your questions is good for you, and other people should respect that

no offence but why did u make this thread. ur first post clearly says that GOD IS NOT REAL..... you really think every christian who has held the belief for all their life that God is real will suddenly go "ok he's right. goodbye God" I mean really.....

I believe in God and I doubt you could ever give me enough evidence to prove me wrong.

In religion there is flaws, in Science there are flaws I believe that there will never be a stage in the time of this world that everyone will be under one roof about whether God exists or not, unless of course Jesus returns....

I respect what you think, and hope you'll respect what I and many others think. Please don't try and tell us what's right and wrong cos there really isn't any point. Hope I don't seem to flamey it's just I get this A LOT! the funny thing is they all complain about christians telling them that God is the only way and how unfair that is, the next minute they're doing their best to tell me that God has got to be the most lamest idea ever.

anyways i hope some more interesting points come up in this thread that's all i find these things useful for. soz i'm not making much sense today, i have trouble with sentence structure apparently >.<

I wish I could have been bothered to write same thing...

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Originally Posted by rkroxpunk

no offence but why did u make this thread. ur first post clearly says that GOD IS NOT REAL..... you really think every christian who has held the belief for all their life that God is real will suddenly go "ok he's right. goodbye God" I mean really.....

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That's his belief though. He's not forcing his belief on anyone or telling anyone to abandon theirs, he's debating the matter. I belief debating is the best way to bring out all aspects and it is good to hear different viewpoints.

I DO NOT want to insult anyone or anything by(NOTE ITS MY OPINION):
I DONT BELIEVE IN GOD
I DONT BELIEVE IN JESUS
I HATE GOD
I HATE JESUS
NONE OF THEM EXISTS

meh i guess u did use IMO a few times which is all good but still i kinda assumed that when u said

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God does not exist. Period.

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you were telling us all he doesn't exist, no doubt about it. anywayz carry on...

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Originally Posted by n3ss3s

I DO NOT want to insult anyone or anything by(NOTE ITS MY OPINION):
I DONT BELIEVE IN GOD
I DONT BELIEVE IN JESUS
I HATE GOD
I HATE JESUS
NONE OF THEM EXISTS

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How can you hate something that you don't believe in?
Your contradicting yourself there buddy :P
By saying you hate God you are acknowledging that he exists, you just dont like him :)

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Originally Posted by neG

How can you hate something that you don't believe in?
Your contradicting yourself there buddy :P
By saying you hate God you are acknowledging that he exists, you just dont like him :)

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Thats just being a smarty pants ... smarty pants.

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Originally Posted by lolpie

Actually Santa was a real person. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santa#A...istian_origins

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No, Saint Nicholas, the bishop, was a real person. He didn't zip-line down peoples' chimneys and chuck gifts at them, he just...was a bishop.

It's like writing a book with a guy named Stephen (my name :P) in it then saying he's real because I'm real.

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Originally Posted by crossback7

I don't mind that Bush vetoed the bill against embryonic stem cells, as it technically is killing a human life. I don't agree with abortion, as it's basically the same thing.

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Uh...ES (embryonic stem) cells and abortion are COMPLETELY different. In abortion, you kill a deformed, unhuman thing that doesn't even resemble a baby. ES stem cells are completely different because they aren't anything yet...only about 100-150 cells in a ball called a blastocyte. I would rather have ES cell research going on because it actually benefits us. However I don't have a problem with abortion because it's the mother's choice if she wants to kill it. She gave birth to it, she should decide.

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Originally Posted by Sumilion

Thats just being a smarty pants ... smarty pants.

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Well yes but Smarties taste great and pants keep me warm! Moving back onto topic... NeG was right, regardless of how hair-splitting/nit-picking his logic was. This topic is probably doomed to have an ongoing debate of three people:

1) The science can explain everything crowd. (vg_cobra)
2) The God can explain everything crowd. (me)
3) The moderates who the other two ignore xD (Vicious,masquerader).

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Originally Posted by A G E N T 83

No, Saint Nicholas, the bishop, was a real person. He didn't zip-line down peoples' chimneys and chuck gifts at them, he just...was a bishop.

It's like writing a book with a guy named Stephen (my name :P) in it then saying he's real because I'm real.

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actually he did put presents in peoples shoes :p or it might have only been one family. anyways i know he did it..

Before reading this post let me make sure you know lol. This is not flaming. Flaming would be sumthing much worse. I am simply expressing my opinion. If this is not flaming.....

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I DONT BELIEVE IN GOD
I DONT BELIEVE IN JESUS
I HATE GOD
I HATE JESUS
NONE OF THEM EXISTS

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.....by N3ss3s then this surely isnt :) It's all in good fun to me

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God was just a being, an almight, all- powerful being who was there to fill in the spots that science was not able to fill. As science is solving all of life's problem, there is becoming little need for god. What has God done? Give you a nice fancy car? A nice job with a nice rich house? Has he given us a world without Genocide? Without Oil? Without greedy people?

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lmao at this bro. "What has science done for you. Give you a nice fancy car? A nice job with a nice rich house? Has it given us a world without Genocide? Without Oil? Without greedy people?" wait...wait... am i kewl now? Science has done nothing and that isnt even what God is supposed to do. Seriously i do my homework on science's part of the story(not just because i take science in class but because i really want to know what could they possibly be thinking. But what ticks me off is that the evoulutionists or watever you are dont do theirs. Actually ready the stories about God (I for one am Christian so i would say read the Bible in Genesis) but im sure any other religious person would at least say learn something about the stories. God is not a magical genie waiting to do your every wim and give you anthing you want lol.

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I DO NOT want to insult anyone or anything by(NOTE ITS MY OPINION):
I DONT BELIEVE IN GOD
I DONT BELIEVE IN JESUS
I HATE GOD
I HATE JESUS
NONE OF THEM EXISTS

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sigh, this is what some Americans bring to the tables these days(assuming you are American). Unthoughout, uneducated, unresearched, prolly makes F's in school, worthless piece of crap posts like this. (SORRY I DID NOT WANT TO INSULT YOU OR ANYTHING, BUT ITS MY OPINION)

drink your ovaltine bizatch.

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Originally Posted by masquerader

There are parts of religion I think are good and parts I think are bad.

good:

• give people morals
• tells people how to live their lives
• gives some kind of meaning in life
• hope

bad:

• people seem to throw their morals out the window when it comes to killing/hating people of other religions
• i think most of religion is too arbitrary. i dont think anything should change on a whim or because its popular (burning of witches, books of the bible, etc)
• people think religious people are more moral than non-religious people
• people can be blind/ignorant

you shouldnt pull in facts when debating about religion; the core of religion is faith and belief, and that doesnt require proof

anybody hear of joseph campbell? i think his ideas about the role of mythology in society (how you relate yourself to the universe) are pretty good

basically, whatever can answer your questions is good for you, and other people should respect that

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You know what Masquerador(or however you spell it). Your post actually made me smile. Thats because 98 % of it is well thought out and true (he does not discuss what is right and wrong, he discusses the concept of religion.) The only thing that bothered me is this

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people think religious people are more moral than non-religious people

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Why not? For the most part , they are. The young man who lives in L.A. and believes in some sort of "God" is less likely to rob, kill, rape someone than the young man who lives in L.A. who doesnt. Its a fact of life. I live in Memphis so i personally see all the time people who kill people on the news. And i guarentee not one of the is religious (unless they are not correct in their religion (such as the muslims((or whoever they were)) who flew into the twin towers. Now they were just crazy lol).

@pwnzor, Right on. :) Ovaltine pwns all.

@rkrockpun, you know he did it? Of course...was it the rope in the living room, or the poison in the parlour? :P :P
FINE, maybe he did. However, Bishop-distributing-confections-and-gifts-at-random-to-one-family<>Big-fat-guy-in-red-suit-flying-in-sled-powered-by-ungulates-distributing-presents-to-billions-of-people.

I'm agnostic.

Well shoot, i typed out my entire arguement it took like an hour, then my family/friends came in and screwed it up so now it got deleted. BTW im in North Carolina right now and im leaving on my plane ride in a few hours so i have to pack. I will type it all out again when i get home lol.

I don't like these debates...

People have the right to believe what ever they want, I don't think debating about it is 'fun'.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pwnaz0r

sigh, this is what some Americans bring to the tables these days(assuming you are American). Unthoughout, uneducated, unresearched, prolly makes F's in school, worthless piece of crap posts like this. (SORRY I DID NOT WANT TO INSULT YOU OR ANYTHING, BUT ITS MY OPINION)

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Your opinion is that if he were American, that meant he didn't think through what he said and he is uneducated? Not only that, but you assume he's American because what you think he said is stupid? Be that it is your opinion, that's just plain..i dunno. Unfair? Kind of like saying "I HATE YOU, but no offense intended." Except to a group of people. But then again, that's somewhere else, and an entirely different topic, so disregard this post. And yes, i'm an American. California to be specific. Hell, i'll even give you that at least half of all Americans are how you described them, but that doesn't make it fair to assume all the ones you encounter are.

Also, i'm gonna try not to come back to this thread ;) Doesn't seem like anything good will come of it