sure. ill give you that.
scientist dont know where the helium cam from.
and you have no idea where your god came from.
Printable View
sure. ill give you that.
scientist dont know where the helium cam from.
and you have no idea where your god came from.
Okey...from what ive heard....correct me if im wrong...there are 100 to the power of 70-80 atoms in the world...now if the universe was 10m by 10m and you placed 1 atom inside it...the hole universe would implode...that just tells you what an empty vacume the universe is...Now when a super nova occurs...The radiation is not as powerful as it extends out and disperses and then fades away over time...So when you say "the buzzing sound is leftover radiation from matter/antimatter collisions" your basically saying that there is always high activity going around in the universe...an antimatter collisions wouldn't cause hardly enough radiation to spread a great distance...Thats why when a large amount of empty vacume is found a clear sound is found instead of the rough one...And scientist can only guess where it comes from...Quote:
Originally Posted by elementalelf
Im gone a stop posting on this thread now...Im making my self look like a real dumb ass who knows nothing...
Oh yer...I really need to talk to my brother about this to understand it properly...
the problem is that you are underestimating the power of antimatter. there is no antimatter left, it all dispersed in the first 1/100 of a second of the universe. however the energy, and subsequent radiation from said explosion was enough to push everything in the galaxy to its present day position, that will sorta tell you how powerful it is.Quote:
Originally Posted by WhAcK
i dont get the 10x10 thing, it makes no sense.
nor the clear/rough sound, sounds dont have texture...
Ok this is my final post...Quote:
Originally Posted by elementalelf
The 10x10 thing has basically all to do with gravity...nvm...Watch the documentary and you will find out...
rough - because of certain dencities...
Clear - coz I guess it runs through the entire universe idk...don't ask me im just someone 13 year sharing what I heard on a documentary...
Supernova - Common...how often do you think they really happen in the universe... and what the chance of someone constantly hitting one area where they happen...
I believe in god and im happy to have some form of law...I am comfortable living the way I am and plan to live always as a Greek orthodox...
The bible nor the quran never stated anything about 2 towers falling down. they just stated some scientistical things that science never knew about tell recently. also the quran and bible arn't books about when natrual disasters are to occur. open them up and you will see what they state. god did make the bible and he did send it down with prophet jesus. however after a few hundred years after jesus was risen to the sky, some men started messing up with the bible.Quote:
i thought it was agreed that god did not write the bible, but that men wrote it, and even then, nobody within religious circles can agree on who wrote what.
most christians/jews believe that moses wrote the pentacost, however the differences in writing styles in each of the books is so varied that its next to impossible that this could have happened.
and what stuff could we not have "known" 1400-3000 years ago? that MAYBE, some time in the next 100, 000 years, 2 buildings might fall down at the same time? this isnt divination, its a fairy tale that just happened to tell of something which, if twisted the right way, resembles an occurance which happened recently.
does this mean that if someone sees a turtle walking past a sleeping rabbit, aesop is god?
how about if a geologist predicts an earthquake happens and it does, should we worship him?
i bolded your spelling and punctuation mistakes... and i refuse to answer any questions until you take the debate seriously enough to use spellcheck.Quote:
The bible nor the quran never stated anything about 2 towers falling down. they just stated some scientistical things that science never knew about tell recently. also the quran and bible arn't books about when natrual disasters are to occur. open them up and you will see what they state. god did make the bible and he did send it down with prophet jesus. however after a few hundred years after jesus was risen to the sky, some men started messing up with the bible.
I know that lots of us are scripters, and technically/computer inclined, so lets take an approach from a scientific perspective.
Consider entropy. Okay, it basically means that things degenerate over time if untouched. It's like your room - you don't clean it, it will ONLY get messier or stay the same. You smash a bottle easily, though fixing it to its perfect original state is almost impossible. Building a good SCAR script takes days. Deleting it requires a few keystrokes. You get what I mean.
But look at the life all around us.. it grows, multiplies, and adapts to an ever changing environment. If you leave a building to the elements, life will generate within that building. Roots and leaves will push up through the concrete, and naturally "take over" without any effort what man had worked so hard to build. Life defies this main scientific rule. Which raises another question - where does life come from?
Scientifically, life can only come from other life forms. Read your biology book. The only conclusion we can draw right now is that some power somewhere put life into existence, because obviously life couldn't have sprouted out of nowhere. (There have been experiments done to "create" simple cells in test tubes, but only produced various biological acids and proteins)
From a physics perspective.. the Big Bang had to be perfect to create the universe as we know today. The chance of creating exactly the universe we know it is one in a couple quadrillion (i won't go into details). Also, it is now discovered and confirmed that the Big Bang came from one point in space. Now think about it. One point in space is nothing. NOTHING. Mathematically zero. So it is scientifically impossible, yet PROVEN that all space, time, energy, matter, and distance came from a single, one-dimensional point from nowhere.
Obviously there is alot more to this universe than people could ever possibly imagine. Even Einstein said that his work was a little baby wading in a vast ocean of knowledge. Although not entirely religious, he strongly opposed atheists.
Anyways, speaking religiously, Most Buddhists/Hindus/Confucians refer to this great, unmistakable, mysterious power as the Zen, Dao, Dhiyama, or Karma. Christians refer to this power as God, or as the Trinity - Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. Muslims refer to this power as Allah, and also take Mohammed as a prophet. North American natives refer to this power as the Great Spirit, creator of all things. None of these views are wrong - they are just of different cultures and different beliefs.
I'm not saying that you should be religious, or atheist.. but the pure fact that science can never answer all our questions, and only serves to create more questions, while creating infinite solutions to our problems, and creating infinite problems at the same time should be taken into account.. as well as the fact that radical fundamentalists often turn into suicide bombers or "flat-Earthers" and hate science and freedom for women etc etc.
(no pushing on my part to make you religious here) Personally, I am a Christian by faith - because it offers hope, salvation, and love to those in need and because I believe that God, this power has taken care of me and made miracles in times of dire need. But how exactly God works - I have no idea. But if I were to give you personal advice - it would be: Be open, questioning, and always ready to receive new ideas and perspectives about everything. Remember: Drop your sword and shield because human ideas in this world are neither right, nor wrong because every single one of us is different. And although the truth will never be known to us, and could be different for every one of us, we can choose to pursue it and receive enlightenment.
(Pursuing the truth can be done through faith, religion, tradition, university, truck driving, SCAR scripting, art, music.. pretty much everything) :)
Elemental I don't think I like you very much. Everything you say is filled with sarcasm and cruelty, as if you are talking down to us. Need I remind you that we are a part of the same community? We aren't enemies shouting at each other on a battlefield, and I don't know why you're acting like we are. This is a matter over 'Which came first, the chicken or the egg?' switched with 'Which came first, god or science?'
If you have ten cents worth of logic in there, the correct answer would be 'god' because god cannot created out of some crackpot imitation of life that you fools are so excited about. You cannot disprove the existence of god, so stop trying.
Ever since you came to this thread you have been insulting us, you have been picking on us, you have been trying to start things. You have tried to convince people to throw away their beliefs based on teenager spelling. Get over yourself, this is the internet. No one said that there was a prophecy 'absolutely 100%ly' referring to the twin towers, we were just saying that there was a prophecy that MAY refer to the twin towers. The only reason we would do that is because it may refer to current events, which can act as reassurance. We aren't saints, we have our doubts - letters on pages won't always be enough, and sometimes we have to relate them to what is happening now.
phoenixlament gets it, why can't you Elemental? Are you, as I said, too frightened to admit, that your science is too limited and always shall be to answer everything? You can come up with all these theories and say google is your proof, but that doesn't prove anything. All it means is that someone came up with just another theory.
Some people say that religions are theories. They are not completely wrong, until they are proven, they will remain just that. Just like your sciences that you can't even prove, even with such a high level of arrogance. (Cruelty on) Obviously since you don't have a brain you can get science to clone one from Hillary Clinton for you. Maybe then you will have enough to get a job in the waffle business.
and if YOU had ten cents of logic, you would realize that you cant prove god. so stop trying.SCAR Code:If you have ten cents worth of logic in there, the correct answer would be 'god' because god cannot created out of some crackpot imitation of life that you fools are so excited about. You cannot disprove the existence of god, so stop trying.
fine fine fine...explain death. what happens to every one when they die. the soul what happens to it? science has nothing to do with death now, so dont give me any science crap, cause let me tell you science ain't everything.Quote:
Originally Posted by lordgreggreg
And does it look like if i care that my grammar is bad? no. you know why this whole thread was started about no god? you know why You are saying there is no god? its because you give no respect to what ever you have. its because you think church is a waste of time. its because you sit on the comp all day maybe or hang out with your friends to much or w/e and do not take religion seriously. You cant take one day just ONE day to go to church on sunday while we muslims we go to the masjid or church every day and we pray. one thing to all you non-god believers open up the bible or quran once and start reading. Have fun and maybe you will get some sense.Quote:
i bolded your spelling and punctuation mistakes... and i refuse to answer any questions until you take the debate seriously enough to use spellcheck.
look, im hardcore christian.Quote:
Originally Posted by kingarabian
my pooint is that its just stupid triyng to prove or disporve god. i hop in here and try to strighten out people who give weak arguments is all.
death. you die. your body crumbles, returns to the earth , energy of it gets eaten and trasphomred into something else. like anumals.
the soul? there is no soul. you just want there to be one.
(like i said, not my belifes, just a rebuttal)
Seriously? ok since your a christian, christians know that after a person dies he/she goes to heaven or hell.Quote:
Originally Posted by lordgreggreg
And about the soul part, take it like this. when you were inside your mother's tummy you were depending on your mom to give you food. you were still forming. Now the soul we muslims believe is what controls your body. so when you came out of your mother, what had let you take control so you can start moving around. what started your brain to function? what started your heart to beat so blood moves around? something had to start it. now also have you ever see a person die before? ok if you want and you know some one close to death, go by him/her whatch as they near death. they will open up their mouths for the soul to come out. if you whatch 3 people die you will see they all do the same thing.
Gregg this has a poll, that means you get to say what you believe - this is the place where no one can prove/disprove, as you have said. Everything here is assumed, except for when elemental goes into politics about wmds, and I make jokes about waffle houses. Just like we can't say who wrote the bible, the scientists can't agree on which theory they like most.
This my friends isn't a very good thread, it turned people into enemies. I wish it closes down. Anwayz i hope i made my point clear. sorry if ive been mean to any one or hurt any one. im out.
[/quote]yeah, im not arguing or explaning my belifs right now, i know i bleive in a soul, and god, and all that jazz. i just dont like weak points.Quote:
Originally Posted by kingarabian
sure. at a certain point in develpoment there is some sort of timer that begins to kick start everything. just like you can have a computer turn itsself on at a certian time. and a human body is MUCH more complex than a simple computer. it could even recive a signal from the mother.Quote:
Originally Posted by kingarabian
there is some patern that embryos folow as they develop, perhaps hard coded into the dna, and this timer would just be part of it.
so you are telling me that because dead pelople open their mouths... its to let the soul out? your saying the soul just couldnt go through the nose? or straight through the body? you are saying that the mouth opening isnt just your muscels relaxing?Quote:
Originally Posted by kingarabian
bad argument. there is no proof in that. all though i do belive what you say.
You expect way too much if you think anything will be proven here gregg.
dont worry jack, have you read what i said? i know nothing will be. i just dont like the zealot people who think they have the answer and that they can prove it. and i hope to make them relize that religon isnt ssomething that can be proven, or disproven.Quote:
Originally Posted by JackLKrawl
So you're saying it's bad to believe in god? No one can prove god exists. You said it yourself.
no, ofcourse not, lol. I DO :pQuote:
Originally Posted by JackLKrawl
but its bad to belive that you can prove it to others.
oh, btw, its greg, not gregg, if you care, (i dont)
=/ ok gregg, but don't be surprised if I go berserk on elemental.
P.S.
I'm playing CS and replying to this thread with a terrier locked up with me. I'm not going to be thinking and I'm going to be frustrated anyway.
i shall start off by saying that everything i say here stays in this thread as far as i am concerned. I dont voice my religious opinions(or lack thereof)inthe general forums, and i would never hold a grudge against anyone because of their religious beliefs.
HOWEVER: kingarabian: i will not take ANY religious discussion seriously when the grammar is so appalling that entire paragraphs could have their meaning mistaken for something else. take pride in your argument, use a spellcheck.
to see where i have rebutted your post, just scroll down to the heading with your name on it.
PHOENIX LAMENT
not exactly what entropy is... entropy refers to probabilities. it states that after an infinite amount of time, everything will be broken down to its simplest form, if the simplest form is mess, then so be it.Quote:
Originally Posted by phoenixlament
please, before using an argument like this, first read your biology book.Quote:
But look at the life all around us.. it grows, multiplies, and adapts to an ever changing environment. If you leave a building to the elements, life will generate within that building. Roots and leaves will push up through the concrete, and naturally "take over" without any effort what man had worked so hard to build. Life defies this main scientific rule. Which raises another question - where does life come from?
Scientifically, life can only come from other life forms. Read your biology book. The only conclusion we can draw right now is that some power somewhere put life into existence, because obviously life couldn't have sprouted out of nowhere. (There have been experiments done to "create" simple cells in test tubes, but only produced various biological acids and proteins)
amino acids were formed by early earth gasses(ammonia, methane, water, co2) via chemical evolution. i.e. the chemicals tended to survive longer if they bonded together, therefore after a few billion years, there were LOTS of bonded chemicals.
amino acids became "alive" when they started forming nuclei of cells. variations of the urey and miller experiment have proven that this theory is plausible.
i used to have a video that would have explained this perfectly.Quote:
From a physics perspective.. the Big Bang had to be perfect to create the universe as we know today. The chance of creating exactly the universe we know it is one in a couple quadrillion (i won't go into details). Also, it is now discovered and confirmed that the Big Bang came from one point in space. Now think about it. One point in space is nothing. NOTHING. Mathematically zero. So it is scientifically impossible, yet PROVEN that all space, time, energy, matter, and distance came from a single, one-dimensional point from nowhere.
what it did was showed you 2 dice, 1 with the 6 on the topside, one with a 3.
it said "the chances of this dice rolling exactly like this is 1 in (whatever)
HOWEVER, it then rewinds the video to before the roll, and, sure enough, when its played foward, the guy rolls 6 and 3.
when looking retrospectively, sure, its a 1 in a couple quadrillion chance, but think about it in terms of rolling a dice, rather then simple inprobabilities.
he also strongly opposed christians:Quote:
Obviously there is alot more to this universe than people could ever possibly imagine. Even Einstein said that his work was a little baby wading in a vast ocean of knowledge. Although not entirely religious, he strongly opposed atheists.
he only opposed atheists because of their "crusading spirit"... hmm, i wonder where he got the word "crusade" from?Code:"From the viewpoint of a Jesuit priest I am, of course, and have always been an atheist.... I have repeatedly said that in my opinion the idea of a personal God is a childlike one. You may call me an agnostic, but I do not share the crusading spirit of the professional atheist whose fervor is mostly due to a painful act of liberation from the fetters of religious indoctrination received in youth. I prefer an attitude of humility corresponding to the weakness of our intellectual understanding of nature and of our being."
none of them are wrong, there is nothing wrong with feeling comfortable, its when you start pushing your beliefs on others that people start getting angry.Quote:
Anyways, speaking religiously, Most Buddhists/Hindus/Confucians refer to this great, unmistakable, mysterious power as the Zen, Dao, Dhiyama, or Karma. Christians refer to this power as God, or as the Trinity - Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. Muslims refer to this power as Allah, and also take Mohammed as a prophet. North American natives refer to this power as the Great Spirit, creator of all things. None of these views are wrong - they are just of different cultures and different beliefs.
i never push my belief(or lack thereof) onto others, i only engage in religious debate because it is the best subject to debate
im not quite sure what you are saying here... that relgious extremists become suicide bombers? i have never heard of an atheistic suicide bomber. and what does this discussion have to do with the FESQuote:
I'm not saying that you should be religious, or atheist.. but the pure fact that science can never answer all our questions, and only serves to create more questions, while creating infinite solutions to our problems, and creating infinite problems at the same time should be taken into account.. as well as the fact that radical fundamentalists often turn into suicide bombers or "flat-Earthers" and hate science and freedom for women etc etc.
so... god gave us the ability to question, but the tells us not to?Quote:
(no pushing on my part to make you religious here) Personally, I am a Christian by faith - because it offers hope, salvation, and love to those in need and because I believe that God, this power has taken care of me and made miracles in times of dire need. But how exactly God works - I have no idea. But if I were to give you personal advice - it would be: Be open, questioning, and always ready to receive new ideas and perspectives about everything. Remember: Drop your sword and shield because human ideas in this world are neither right, nor wrong because every single one of us is different. And although the truth will never be known to us, and could be different for every one of us, we can choose to pursue it and receive enlightenment.
or maybe we just are not allowed to question him?
you have a very good philosophy on life, whilst i dont agree with your theistic views, i cant fault your morals.Quote:
(Pursuing the truth can be done through faith, religion, tradition, university, truck driving, SCAR scripting, art, music.. pretty much everything) :)
JACKLKRAWL
atheists argument is that god did not come at all... remember who you are debating against pleaseQuote:
Elemental I don't think I like you very much. Everything you say is filled with sarcasm and cruelty, as if you are talking down to us. Need I remind you that we are a part of the same community? We aren't enemies shouting at each other on a battlefield, and I don't know why you're acting like we are. This is a matter over 'Which came first, the chicken or the egg?' switched with 'Which came first, god or science?'
also, we are not enemies, im quite happy to help you out in your scripting endevours, but i enjoy debating religion.
crackpot imitation of life? how is LIFE a crackpot imitation of life?Quote:
If you have ten cents worth of logic in there, the correct answer would be 'god' because god cannot created out of some crackpot imitation of life that you fools are so excited about. You cannot disprove the existence of god, so stop trying.
anyways, the onus is on you to prove the existance of god. you cant prove that i dont have a fluffy pink crow in my room with the powers of speech and sentient thought, so stop trying!
if the twin towers were not refered to via "bible predicts stuff" arguments, then why is it in the thread at all?Quote:
Ever since you came to this thread you have been insulting us, you have been picking on us, you have been trying to start things. You have tried to convince people to throw away their beliefs based on teenager spelling. Get over yourself, this is the internet. No one said that there was a prophecy 'absolutely 100%ly' referring to the twin towers, we were just saying that there was a prophecy that MAY refer to the twin towers. The only reason we would do that is because it may refer to current events, which can act as reassurance. We aren't saints, we have our doubts - letters on pages won't always be enough, and sometimes we have to relate them to what is happening now.
coming up with a theory is better then saying "Well, that looks like it could work, so lets get 2 billion other people to say it DOES work"Quote:
phoenixlament gets it, why can't you Elemental? Are you, as I said, too frightened to admit, that your science is too limited and always shall be to answer everything? You can come up with all these theories and say google is your proof, but that doesn't prove anything. All it means is that someone came up with just another theory.
i thought you religious folk purported your superior morals learnt from the bible? you just succeeded in degenerating this debate to right wing name calling. if anyone could have furthered the cause of the atheists, it is you, thanks!Quote:
Some people say that religions are theories. They are not completely wrong, until they are proven, they will remain just that. Just like your sciences that you can't even prove, even with such a high level of arrogance. (Cruelty on) Obviously since you don't have a brain you can get science to clone one from Hillary Clinton for you. Maybe then you will have enough to get a job in the waffle business.
KING ARABIAN
[quote]fine fine fine...explain death. what happens to every one when they die. the soul what happens to it? science has nothing to do with death now, so dont give me any science crap, cause let me tell you science ain't everything.
[/quote
what is there to explain? death is death. nothing else.
science isnt everything, yet it is the best explanation we have, and therefore, the one i will believe.
it is backed up by relevant and accurate proof.
i will answer all your other posts once i get back from my legal studies exam
KING ARABIAN
One thing to you. jahenem warrack. if you want the good go for the good if you dont hell with you. we try to explain but you just come up with something. and guess what i dont give a damn about my spelling. alright you win? have fun? i have more then 1 proof to prove their is a god. if you want ill show you. ill show you all. but i predict that you guyz are just gonna say its fake or something. but ill be happy to show.Quote:
fine fine fine...explain death. what happens to every one when they die. the soul what happens to it? science has nothing to do with death now, so dont give me any science crap, cause let me tell you science ain't everything.
[/quote
what is there to explain? death is death. nothing else.
science isnt everything, yet it is the best explanation we have, and therefore, the one i will believe.
it is backed up by relevant and accurate proof.
i will answer all your other posts once i get back from my legal studies exam
[QUOTE=elementalelf;218779]I just figured I'd flip through and correct your post like you've been correcting ours. Please, in the future, use a grammar book, as I don't really want to fix your posts. I've gone over this, we aren't saints. We just believe in Jesus Christ, do sue us for it. You cannot expect us to be our usual kind selves when you insult us so deeply. Please, give us 'accurate proof' that even one of your theories are correct.Quote:
i shall start off by saying that everything i say here stays in this thread as far as i am concerned. I dont voice my religious opinions(or lack thereof)inthe general forums, and i would never hold a grudge against anyone because of their religious beliefs.
HOWEVER: kingarabian: i will not take ANY religious discussion seriously when the grammar is so appalling that entire paragraphs could have their meaning mistaken for something else. take pride in your argument, use a spellcheck.
to see where i have rebutted your post, just scroll down to the heading with your name on it.
PHOENIX LAMENT
Quote:
Originally Posted by phoenixlament View Post
I know that lots of us are scripters, and technically/computer inclined, so lets take an approach from a scientific perspective.
Consider entropy. Okay, it basically means that things degenerate over time if untouched. It's like your room - you don't clean it, it will ONLY get messier or stay the same. You smash a bottle easily, though fixing it to its perfect original state is almost impossible. Building a good SCAR script takes days. Deleting it requires a few keystrokes. You get what I mean.
not exactly what entropy is... entropy refers to probabilities. it states that after an infinite amount of time, everything will be broken down to its simplest form, if the simplest form is mess, then so be it.
Quote:
But look at the life all around us.. it grows, multiplies, and adapts to an ever changing environment. If you leave a building to the elements, life will generate within that building. Roots and leaves will push up through the concrete, and naturally "take over" without any effort what man had worked so hard to build. Life defies this main scientific rule. Which raises another question - where does life come from?
Scientifically, life can only come from other life forms. Read your biology book. The only conclusion we can draw right now is that some power somewhere put life into existence, because obviously life couldn't have sprouted out of nowhere. (There have been experiments done to "create" simple cells in test tubes, but only produced various biological acids and proteins)
please, before using an argument like this, first read your biology book.
amino acids were formed by early earth gasses(ammonia, methane, water, co2) via chemical evolution. i.e. the chemicals tended to survive longer if they bonded together, therefore after a few billion years, there were LOTS of bonded chemicals.
amino acids became "alive" when they started forming nuclei of cells. variations of the urey and miller experiment have proven that this theory is plausible.
Quote:
From a physics perspective.. the Big Bang had to be perfect to create the universe as we know today. The chance of creating exactly the universe we know it is one in a couple quadrillion (i won't go into details). Also, it is now discovered and confirmed that the Big Bang came from one point in space. Now think about it. One point in space is nothing. NOTHING. Mathematically zero. So it is scientifically impossible, yet PROVEN that all space, time, energy, matter, and distance came from a single, one-dimensional point from nowhere.
i used to have a video that would have explained this perfectly.
what it did was showed you 2 dice, 1 with the 6 on the topside, one with a 3.
it said "the chances of this dice rolling exactly like this is 1 in (whatever)
HOWEVER, it then rewinds the video to before the roll, and, sure enough, when its played foward, the guy rolls 6 and 3.
when looking retrospectively, sure, its a 1 in a couple quadrillion chance, but think about it in terms of rolling a dice, rather then simple inprobabilities.
Quote:
Obviously there is alot more to this universe than people could ever possibly imagine. Even Einstein said that his work was a little baby wading in a vast ocean of knowledge. Although not entirely religious, he strongly opposed atheists.
he also strongly opposed christians:
Code:
"From the viewpoint of a Jesuit priest I am, of course, and have always been an atheist.... I have repeatedly said that in my opinion the idea of a personal God is a childlike one. You may call me an agnostic, but I do not share the crusading spirit of the professional atheist whose fervor is mostly due to a painful act of liberation from the fetters of religious indoctrination received in youth. I prefer an attitude of humility corresponding to the weakness of our intellectual understanding of nature and of our being."
he only opposed atheists because of their "crusading spirit"... hmm, i wonder where he got the word "crusade" from?
Quote:
Anyways, speaking religiously, Most Buddhists/Hindus/Confucians refer to this great, unmistakable, mysterious power as the Zen, Dao, Dhiyama, or Karma. Christians refer to this power as God, or as the Trinity - Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. Muslims refer to this power as Allah, and also take Mohammed as a prophet. North American natives refer to this power as the Great Spirit, creator of all things. None of these views are wrong - they are just of different cultures and different beliefs.
none of them are wrong, there is nothing wrong with feeling comfortable, its when you start pushing your beliefs on others that people start getting angry.
i never push my belief(or lack thereof) onto others, i only engage in religious debate because it is the best subject to debate
Quote:
I'm not saying that you should be religious, or atheist.. but the pure fact that science can never answer all our questions, and only serves to create more questions, while creating infinite solutions to our problems, and creating infinite problems at the same time should be taken into account.. as well as the fact that radical fundamentalists often turn into suicide bombers or "flat-Earthers" and hate science and freedom for women etc etc.
im not quite sure what you are saying here... that relgious extremists become suicide bombers? i have never heard of an atheistic suicide bomber. and what does this discussion have to do with the FES
Quote:
(no pushing on my part to make you religious here) Personally, I am a Christian by faith - because it offers hope, salvation, and love to those in need and because I believe that God, this power has taken care of me and made miracles in times of dire need. But how exactly God works - I have no idea. But if I were to give you personal advice - it would be: Be open, questioning, and always ready to receive new ideas and perspectives about everything. Remember: Drop your sword and shield because human ideas in this world are neither right, nor wrong because every single one of us is different. And although the truth will never be known to us, and could be different for every one of us, we can choose to pursue it and receive enlightenment.
so... god gave us the ability to question, but the tells us not to?
or maybe we just are not allowed to question him?
Quote:
(Pursuing the truth can be done through faith, religion, tradition, university, truck driving, SCAR scripting, art, music.. pretty much everything)
you have a very good philosophy on life, whilst i dont agree with your theistic views, i cant fault your morals.
JACKLKRAWL
Quote:
Elemental I don't think I like you very much. Everything you say is filled with sarcasm and cruelty, as if you are talking down to us. Need I remind you that we are a part of the same community? We aren't enemies shouting at each other on a battlefield, and I don't know why you're acting like we are. This is a matter over 'Which came first, the chicken or the egg?' switched with 'Which came first, god or science?'
atheists argument is that god did not come at all... remember who you are debating against please
also, we are not enemies, im quite happy to help you out in your scripting endevours, but i enjoy debating religion.
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If you have ten cents worth of logic in there, the correct answer would be 'god' because god cannot created out of some crackpot imitation of life that you fools are so excited about. You cannot disprove the existence of god, so stop trying.
crackpot imitation of life? how is LIFE a crackpot imitation of life?
anyways, the onus is on you to prove the existance of god. you cant prove that i dont have a fluffy pink crow in my room with the powers of speech and sentient thought, so stop trying!
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Ever since you came to this thread you have been insulting us, you have been picking on us, you have been trying to start things. You have tried to convince people to throw away their beliefs based on teenager spelling. Get over yourself, this is the internet. No one said that there was a prophecy 'absolutely 100%ly' referring to the twin towers, we were just saying that there was a prophecy that MAY refer to the twin towers. The only reason we would do that is because it may refer to current events, which can act as reassurance. We aren't saints, we have our doubts - letters on pages won't always be enough, and sometimes we have to relate them to what is happening now.
if the twin towers were not refered to via "bible predicts stuff" arguments, then why is it in the thread at all?
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phoenixlament gets it, why can't you Elemental? Are you, as I said, too frightened to admit, that your science is too limited and always shall be to answer everything? You can come up with all these theories and say google is your proof, but that doesn't prove anything. All it means is that someone came up with just another theory.
coming up with a theory is better then saying "Well, that looks like it could work, so lets get 2 billion other people to say it DOES work"
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Some people say that religions are theories. They are not completely wrong, until they are proven, they will remain just that. Just like your sciences that you can't even prove, even with such a high level of arrogance. (Cruelty on) Obviously since you don't have a brain you can get science to clone one from Hillary Clinton for you. Maybe then you will have enough to get a job in the waffle business.
i thought you religious folk purported your superior morals learnt from the bible? you just succeeded in degenerating this debate to right wing name calling. if anyone could have furthered the cause of the atheists, it is you, thanks!
KING ARABIAN
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fine fine fine...explain death. what happens to every one when they die. the soul what happens to it? science has nothing to do with death now, so dont give me any science crap, cause let me tell you science ain't everything.
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what is there to explain? death is death. nothing else.
science isnt everything, yet it is the best explanation we have, and therefore, the one i will believe.
it is backed up by relevant and accurate proof.
P.S.
I didn't mean to "further the cause of atheism" by calling you arrogant. Do forgive me for not being a pacifist, but Christianity does not teach or support that by any means. And by crackpot imitation of life, I was referring* to your clones, which so far is the only creation that you have really succeeded in doing, except maybe bacteria under very special circumstances? Assuming that your theory of evolution from bacteria is correct, and that man did evolve from apes, then we would probably find human-ape fossils somewhere. Maybe you people evolved from apes, but I know for sure we didn't.
[QUOTE=JackLKrawl;218826]i have not been "correcting your mistakes" i have been asking you to make BASIC grammatical rectifications of posts that dearly need it.Quote:
Originally Posted by elementalelf
With a post as long as mine, there will invariably be some grammatical errors that will be overlooked, but surely for a 3 line post, one could look over it for a few seconds just to make sure it makes sense?
I do this with my posts before i post them, every single time.
As for my proof, accuracy is subjective, so what i take to be accurate, you may discard due to either limited understanding, or conflicting religious beliefs.(The latter almost certainly being the case)
However i will explain it regardless.
Firstly: It is widely held that in science it is impossible to prove anything, only to disprove all other rational possibilities.
Also, your post shows that you are not well versed in the subject with which you are arguing. Almost all remains of the various ancestors of the homo genus are still in a solid form, i.e. Bones have been found.
Human to apes:
Homo Habilis
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Homo_habilis.jpg
homo Rudolfensis
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:1470f.jpg
Homo Erectus
http://cache.eb.com/eb/image?id=79508&rendTypeId=4
Homo Antecessor
Note: this is only parts of the jaw, yet it is so similar to Homo sapien jawbones that the MOST(note: not only) logical conclusion is ancestry.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Homo_antecessor.jpg
Homo Neanderthalensis:
Note: this is not an ancestor of Homo Sapien, more like a cousin, they both evolved from Homo Erectus
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:H...rthalensis.jpg
To be honest i really don't understand why this has become an empathetic issue, this is a debate, not a place for personal insults. I have tried to keep the conversation as civilised* as possible while proving my point, and whilst my debating methods may be seen by some as uncouth, or even downright hostile, know that i have alot of respect for someone that will staunchly follow something in the face of ridicule, i do, however, have even more respect if that same person can make an interesting and strong argument as to why they believe.
For the most part, you have done that. You have stood by your personal beliefs while i attempt to tear them apart, and for that, you are to be commended. Just because i have a love of debate, does not mean i don't respect my opponents.
*Please don't correct me on this word, i live in Australia, that is the correct spelling here.
OK =/ no hard feelings elemental, I just misunderstood your approach. This is one of my problems, one of my parents is a teacher, the other is an engineer - both obsessive over my mistakes and very keen in correcting them. It's kind of driven me insane when people correct me/others. Just imagine yourself living with extremely eccentric people, eventually it rubs off on you.
I won't say they are or are not related to humans, but it does not stamp anything out. We know that from colonial times, people have become a good bit taller. For centuries Jesus has been depicted as a normal man, no ape-hair. (<_< Man that would be freaky.) Jesus is said to have been alive at the same time as Julius Caesar, as he once said to his apostles that he wished to meet him. Assuming Jesus existed, he was crucified in Rome. Honestly, I do not know how to argue against the pictures, all I can say is that I don't think that they prove what they are meant to prove. This is something interesting in the bible. They found possible evidence of Lot's wife being turned to salt. Jerusalem today is still having issues from Jacob. These things are curious because there were little people able to write so long ago.
The bottom line is, that we cannot say for sure. Throwing all faith aside, anyone can see that. I don't think this thread should be here, but it is, and it is amazing that SRL hasn't been crumbled by some Jihad from it.
I second that lets hope a nice mod comes and closes it.Quote:
I don't think this thread should be here, but it is, and it is amazing that SRL hasn't been crumbled by some Jihad from it.
Thanks for that, and i do apologize for the earlier bits about grammar. I do get very annoyed by bad grammar, its just one of my bugbears.Quote:
Originally Posted by JackLKrawl
I found the Lot's wife story interesting actually, and, you being a religious person, would probably be the best person to direct this question to.
I would like to note that this is not meant to be having a go at your religion, its actually an honest question with no sarcasm intended.
From what i can see, Lot's wife was turned was turned to salt because she felt pity for those dieing at soddom. my question is, what was the biblical reason behind turning Lot's wife into salt? Was it only because she looked back as the city was being destroyed?
Here's a sub issue to discuss:
How many people had religious parents and were taken to church/etc, and grow up and became atheist/agnostic on their own?
How many people had non religious parents and then became religious on their own?
How many religious people had parents of the same religion?
You ruin the fun of senseless arguing Boreas...:p
Does anybody want me to join and argument and blow y'all down with my piercing intelligence and my method of pointing out flaws in other peoples logic? Or do you want to keep it nice and simple without venturing into the Bible, that is, if you haven't done so already.
And quick point Boreas, what do you mean by religious in your questions? Like a church-going religious, or a let's skip church and open Christmas presents religious?
-Dunce
I mean as in believing in a god, celebrating christmas for the birth of jesus. (Whereas non religious would be celebrating just because it's nice to give and receive to others, family closeness, etc.)
Hey Boreas. Just to answer your question.
I don't really think you will find a good correlation. Well, at least not for people who think on their own (now that I think about it, a surprising minority)
I know that there have been studies done concerning a parent’s politics, and their child’s, that found a very strong correlation.
I would assume this to be the same as religion goes too.
I grew up catholic, my parent weren’t really hardcore or anything and we went to church. I had my little bible class thing, and I basically knew the scriptures up and down, and understood it better than most people.
and how, I got sick of catholic stuff that I didn’t agree with.
for instance, personally, I am strongly against drinking any sort of alcohol, don’t know why, but it’s just like a engrained trait of mine that transcends religion.
So I decided that catholic stuff really wasn’t for me. there were some other reasons too, basically the people in the church didn’t really believe in it, and were in it for social reasons, which made it pointless to me, because I generally hate people, and being social as well.
so then I kind of had no religion other than my own, no church (it wasn’t too hard to talk my parents out of that)
I believed in god, but not very strongly, I was a very, down to earth, physical proof guy, I believed in god only because I did originally, and couldn’t find any proof against it to change my mind.
Then some Mormon missionaries came to my house and started trying to teach me. They were kind of zealots, and pissed me off really bad. I decided right then and there that I would be atheist just so I could prove them wrong. (And I gave better arguments than we have seen here).
anyhow, that boiled down to them asking me to just, for once, say I good pray to god asking if he existed, and if Mormonism was good stuff or not.
And I got the worst answer I could ever have received, and it kind of changed my life, and still pisses me off now. SO I become Mormon, baptized my family, and basically became a Mormon guru similar to how I was a catholic guru earlier (5 years) in life.
So yeah, that was all fine and dandy, till girls started getting involved. See, Mormonism was great for me, they have a wonderful moral basis that echoes along with mine nearly perfectly, actual scriptural guidance "don’t drink, don’t smoke, don’t have sex before marriage". So I was happy, but then we also had Mormon zealots. They were so crazy they make other church's zealots look like atheists. Anyhow, they get really popular, publish a book, high up people say they like it, and all of a sudden what they think, and how they interpret the books, becomes Mormon law.
and so they started telling me that I shouldn’t do XYZ in my relationships, and that I shouldn’t have just one girl, because it would make her more than a friend, and lead to sex. And I can agree with that to an extent, for the majority. But not for me. So people started looking down on me, allot. I didn’t really care, I was able then to really see the character of some of these "great Mormons" and allot of them are just lies, fakes, etc.
This absolutely discussed me when I learned that my church was being run by hypocrites. It all boiled down to them wanting me to go on a two year mission. Now, I thought long and hard about this, I had UNBELIVABLE pressure making me go, I had people paying for all my expenses, everything. But I just didn’t want to go. I had talks with bishops (very unnerving) and basically it came down to "pray if you want to go" I did, and it was that I shouldn’t go.
So then people assumed I was the devil, and people started to actually shun me, it was amazing. I mean, I really don’t want to spend 2 years of my life having to do what some Mormon Sais, especially when I know how corrupt they are. Spending 2 years doing god’s will, sure, doing a person’s will, no way.
So I went to college, and decided that I would just practice my religion by myself, I’m still hardcore Mormon, and believe in it, specially the morality parts, but I only read the actual books, nothing else. And I’m very happy with that.
And so back on topic Boreas. I don’t think my parent’s views on religion had any effect on me at all. I am very religious today, but I don’t think my parents had one bit of influence on it.
MY parents were muslim and so am I =D.
i haven't read all pages in this thread.. read a few.. but ive decided that i really need help. is there anyone here who can help me understand the things that im thinking about inside my head... im starting to get confused and scared... i have had a long and slow road to depression for things in my life, and started to think about death, then religion, point of human existence... and i don't really know what to think.. i feel as if im not even living inside my body anymore. thinking about such things as i do everyday makes me feel sick inside the stomach and im starting to question my mental health. this has been going on a few months now. the last week has been really bad.
if anyone can help me. please add my MSN -> its in my sig
hmm... usually i would say that this is just a young teenager type thing, but then i noticed you were 17.
i suggest you go to your GP about it, they are good people to talk to.
Well to sum it up, scientists will never figure out everything and neither will religious people. Go too far on either end and you'll end up elemental or become a suicide bomber. Simple as that.
Man is stupid, futile, often blind, and has a strong tendency to prove that he himself is right, and that the other man are more stupid, more futile, and even more blind. This is the leading cause of everything from fistfights to world wars.
That's why God created women. No penis, no problem. :p
(Or if you are an atheist, you would say that gender differences occurred in relatively early life forms as a result of the evolution of sexual reproduction evolved, leading to the XX, and XY chromosomes. The high levels of testosterone amongst adolescent human males cause more irrational, argumentative, and high-ego behaviour relative to their female counterparts.)
no way am i talking to anyone face to face about my thoughts.... i just thought that maybe if someone religious can explain things better to me.. maybe i could live a bit happier i hate being uncertainQuote:
Originally Posted by elementalelf
you would be surprised how much it helps talking to someone face to face... but it is your decision, and even if you are happy, you are still uncertain.
as they say, there are only 3 certainties in life:
life
death
taxes
yes, i know. but its depressing me to the point where its impacting on my life big time
read my post above?Quote:
Originally Posted by Czepa
There is only ONE way to prove that god, religion, whatever exists.
And that is to pray, and find out for yourself.
Now, unfortunatly telling someone you prayed and got/didn't get an answer, normally inst a strong argument, BUT at least it is a strong argument for you.
It's a pretty good failsafe too, I think every major religion has something in it like "if you pray and ask god with a sinceere heart he will talk to you", so I sujest you give that a try.
Let me know how it goes, and then you can go place your vote on this forum.
Now as far zas depression goes, well, look. Religion sometimes helps with depression, but not really. I found this. If you feel depressed, do stuff really really nicde for people that makes them happy. You will start feeling happy yourself almost imidiatly. This goes for athiest, agnostics, and religious zealots alike.
Good luck.
Edit: ok, and if you really want solid definative answers on where you are going to go when you die, whats the purpose of life, etc. You probably should be come religious, lol. However, if you really think about it,thoese really don't matter too much right now anyhow. Just make people happy. Oh, nad if you don't have a moral guidline, religion is pretty good at suplying you a cookie cutter one of those too. But then again, a utilitarian view will get you one as well. religion isnt required to be a good person, or to be happy. (although i find it helps)
thanks greg, im undecided about religion, but its beneficial to say yes for me i think, but im not easy to convince. since i got back from boarding school halfway through year 11 (got expelled from the boarding house) i realized that i had pissed alot of people off, and done no good at all. so i decided to try let god forgive me, by not saying that X doesn't exist or X does exist but confronting it like this:
going through life doing good things for people trying to be respectful and show forgiveness to anyone as long as they are willing to accept it and really make sure that on judgment day... god can weigh up.. well he didn't believe in me fully and wasn't convinced, but on the other had didn't commit many sins/was kind.
i think for the time being ill keep it like that, but try to not think about the "whatif"s about it not being true, then what is the point of my existence. thats whats setting me off i think
what do you think?