Arguments for God's Existance

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Originally Posted by LordGregGreg

This really isnt that good of a reason honestly. People do things for all sorts of weird reasons. And many many book have been written that are much longer. Just becuase you write a big book doesnt mean you ro the book is right, even if it does become a best seller.
As for reasons why? well, it could be because god was guiding them and told them all (the diferent authors) what to write.
Or it could be because someone wanted to write the most popular book in the world.
Or it could be because someone wanted to write up a religion and get lots fo people to follow it, in hopes of makeing the world a beter place, but making up all the God stuff.
Or it could be because that person wanted to write someone allot lof people would belive in so he could manipulate their minds and control them.

Oh, yeah, i already know about the trilogy. I googled it and nothig particulary interesting came up. Have you googled it? or what did you want me to see? Was your point to just point out that I didnt meantion 3 bodies, and just one at a time?

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You told him Jesus looked like a Jew, which is actually kind of offensive lol xD

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Originally Posted by JackLKrawl

You told him Jesus looked like a Jew, which is actually kind of offensive lol xD

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I was talking about jesus when he was on earth.
Calling him a Jew isn't offensive.. that's exactly what he was.

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Originally Posted by LordGregGreg

I was talking about jesus when he was on earth.
Calling him a Jew isn't offensive.. that's exactly what he was.

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yeah its not offensive, Jesus was jewish lol

My family is mainly religious (Christian, of course). But nobody goes to church at Sundays or such. They go to church for family-weddings, funerals and at christmas day.

But I was brought up with room to choose. I was never forced to read the bible or forced to do or not do something religious.

So now I am an atheist. I've decided to not believe in God. I have no proof against him. I just have a feeling that faith requires you to be naive.

If I find out that God exists, and I'm gonna end in Hell, I'll make sure I have the heck of a time down there!

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Originally Posted by oliver1205

yeah its not offensive, Jesus was jewish lol

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You can get sued for telling an arab he looks like a Muslim. =/

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Originally Posted by King of Knives

My family is mainly religious (Christian, of course). But nobody goes to church at Sundays or such. They go to church for family-weddings, funerals and at christmas day.

But I was brought up with room to choose. I was never forced to read the bible or forced to do or not do something religious.

So now I am an atheist. I've decided to not believe in God. I have no proof against him. I just have a feeling that faith requires you to be naive.

If I find out that God exists, and I'm gonna end in Hell, I'll make sure I have the heck of a time down there!

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You will, I promise. xD

VenomfangX on youtube.

Enough said :)

youll see how he throws everyone off and hes a christian :D

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Originally Posted by JackLKrawl

You can get sued for telling an arab he looks like a Muslim. =/

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That is different. Not all Arabs are Muslim. Arabs are an extremely large ethnic group. All Jesuses are jewish. So telling jesus that he looks like himself is not offensive. And which Jew would get mad that their savior looks like them.

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Originally Posted by FornxXx

VenomfangX on youtube.

Enough said :)

youll see how he throws everyone off and hes a christian :D

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Yeah, I looked at his videos. At first I was very impressed, but after pming him, asking him about the Ice Age...

http://freehovind.com/watch-4308235066145651150

Meh, I guess it's ok to read from a computer screen, but...

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Originally Posted by Dusk412

That is different. Not all Arabs are Muslim. Arabs are an extremely large ethnic group. All Jesuses are jewish. So telling jesus that he looks like himself is not offensive. And which Jew would get mad that their savior looks like them.

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...Jews don't believe that Jesus was their savior.

I believe that god exists, but what about satan and hell? I think hell is not a place of torture and punishment i think it's a good place, but i think heaven is a good place too. But i only think that god exists, i don't believe that he created the world, cause then he would have created all the other planets and the whole universe. How come there is like a million planets in the whole universe and god has created them all in 7 days? How the planets at the moment are coming out? Does god create them? how? If there was only god how he had came and how he had created the world and universe? There is a lot of questions, but just a few answers.

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Originally Posted by JackLKrawl

...Jews don't believe that Jesus was their savior.

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Oh yea, I was tired OK? Anyways the rest of it makes sense though lol.

I believe that God is science, science is God. It's actually quite a simple concept if you think about it long enough.

I saw this on Family guy! Jesus dared God to eat some Chili and when god did Jesus made him fart and put a lighter behind Gods butt and the universe was b0rn

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Originally Posted by IceFire908

I believe that God is science, science is God. It's actually quite a simple concept if you think about it long enough.

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Science is God makes sense, but if you mean that God is science in the assumption God is real, then i dont agree.(you could interpret "God is science" a different way(meaning, not assuming God exists), in which i do agree that it makes sense :))

(this whole God thing im talking about should be saying "God", but i forgot to, so meh)

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Originally Posted by Dan Cardin

Science is God makes sense, but if you mean that God is science in the assumption God is real, then i dont agree.(you could interpret "God is science" a different way(meaning, not assuming God exists), in which i do agree that it makes sense :))

(this whole God thing im talking about should be saying "God", but i forgot to, so meh)

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The implication was that they are both the same exact thing.

From what you said all I can tell is that you disagree simply because it refers to God being real which you are against simply because it refers to 'God', that or you really don't know what you're saying but you're trying to say "I agree" but elaborated way to much then changed your mind at the end. So, yea, I'll take that as a "I agree".

I believe in the scientific way of creation "The Big Bang" I have in no way a belief in religion or god for that matter. Sorry if i offend anybody, this is just my personal opinion

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Originally Posted by Sc00by22

I believe in the scientific way of creation "The Big Bang" I have in no way a belief in religion or god for that matter. Sorry if i offend anybody, this is just my personal opinion

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Creation and The Big Bang are the exact same thing aka The Big Bang was Creation.

It's like two people arguing over the simple name of something.

Science continually proves god's existence.

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Originally Posted by Bourdou!

Science continually proves god's existence.

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evidence? source? back yourself up with a claim like this,
science never does this,

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Originally Posted by IceFire908

I believe that God is science, science is God. It's actually quite a simple concept if you think about it long enough.

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no,
god is when people believe there is an invisible man in the sky, who created the universe and is still around today, listening to our prayers,

science is a set of rules and study which explain the universe,
science has no evidence that anything happens when you pray, science has no evidence that the universe was created by a conscious being


iv heard that sometimes, like "science and God are two way of telling the same story"
well they arnt, they are completely different stories,

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Originally Posted by Yakman

evidence? source? back yourself up with a claim like this,
science never does this,




no,
god is when people believe there is an invisible man in the sky, who created the universe and is still around today, listening to our prayers,

science is a set of rules and study which explain the universe,
science has no evidence that anything happens when you pray, science has no evidence that the universe was created by a conscious being


iv heard that sometimes, like "science and God are two way of telling the same story"
well they arnt, they are completely different stories,

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Scientists have yet to create life in labs, the more Science grows the more we realize the big bang is less and less likely. If you watched that dude who believed the Earth was 6,000 years old, he went over problems like galaxies spinning backwards, and the perfect orbit of the Earth.

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Originally Posted by IceFire908

The implication was that they are both the same exact thing.

From what you said all I can tell is that you disagree simply because it refers to God being real which you are against simply because it refers to 'God', that or you really don't know what you're saying but you're trying to say "I agree" but elaborated way to much then changed your mind at the end. So, yea, I'll take that as a "I agree".

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Nope :). I was trying to say that the more i thought about it the more it sounded like you meant- God is science because God created science, blah, etc. I dont agree with that. But if thats not what you meant then i probably agree :p.

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Originally Posted by Yakman

no,
god is when people believe there is an invisible man in the sky, who created the universe and is still around today, listening to our prayers,

science is a set of rules and study which explain the universe,
science has no evidence that anything happens when you pray, science has no evidence that the universe was created by a conscious being


iv heard that sometimes, like "science and God are two way of telling the same story"
well they arnt, they are completely different stories,

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Well, I can see what your saying. Yea some people believe in the magical man in the sky but I guess my beliefs are to complex explain... meh whatever... all I know is that these types of discussions are trivial.

The chance of the right combination of gases and temperature and pressure needed to create life happening in the real world is virtually nill. If you choose to believe that is just pure luck... Well, that is your decision.

Can you define god like that? No.

Some religions portray "a man sitting in the sky" but that is really just a way to try and define the undefinable.

Religion has been around as long as man. Man needs to believe in something, whether it be god or science.

Its pointless trying to prove god's existence/non existence. I personally believe that "god" is life.

Omg , everyone here gets really inspired :p, all I will say is that I think :

Good if god exists or not , Its not a big deal for me, I just live my life and go with the flow, :)

Some people say " If god does not exist then who created the universe?" So well I comeback with this " Then Who created god? Himself? " :p

And also I think that everyone has the option to control their destiny , or let the destiny control them :D

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Originally Posted by Dracody

Omg , everyone here gets really inspired :p, all I will say is that I think :

Good if god exists or not , Its not a big deal for me, I just live my life and go with the flow, :)

Some people say " If god does not exist then who created the universe?" So well I comeback with this " Then Who created god? Himself? " :p

And also I think that everyone has the option to control their destiny , or let the destiny control them :D

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K

God wasn't created, God IS. God isn't limited to rules of human logic.

...
K

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Originally Posted by JackLKrawl

K

God wasn't created, God IS. God isn't limited to rules of human logic.

...
K

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Thats the best reason you can give for God's actions or should i say lack of action, and everything that is complained about that he doesnt do? That proves nothing. It only tries to serve as a flimsy argument to make up for a lack of reason

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Originally Posted by Dan Cardin

Thats the best reason you can give for God's actions or should i say lack of action, and everything that is complained about that he doesnt do? That proves nothing. It only tries to serve as a flimsy argument to make up for a lack of reason

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You expect God to do everything that's good for us? Fat chance. That's like saying I don't believe in science because not everything it does is good.

I have noticed that many many people here get all sorts of confused with the creation. If you have not noticed yet, both sides (god and athiest) have nothing but bull to explain it. Please realize, the validity of each others argument on something like this doesn't lead to anything. Even the big bang theory doesn't even give hints to where everything game from, all It states is that there was a big explosion at the center a long time ago, nothing more.

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Originally Posted by lolislol

How come there is like a million planets in the whole universe and god has created them all in 7 days? How the planets at the moment are coming out? Does god create them? how? If there was only god how he had came and how he had created the world and universe? There is a lot of questions, but just a few answers.

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Well, you have a few things confused. You seem to be looking for an explanation from a god point of view, so i wil give you that, no proof, as there is not any, but just an explanation. There is nothing in the bible about the God of abraham creating all of the planets, just earth. There is also many quotes from the bible aluding to there being multiple Gods. How does god do it? Well, he is known to organize the matter that is already there. Want more specifics, you can look to science to see how he forms planets together, universes, solar systems, etc. Science is only an explanation of what god has been doing.

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Originally Posted by yakman

evidence? source? back yourself up with a claim like this,
science never does this,

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Ok, evidence; Evolution, nothing more than showing how god did creation. Science talking about how gravity pulled mass together to form planets, nothing more than showing how God organised matter. Scientific laws about how the world works, nothing more than a more deatiled (then the bible, etc) explanation of how God set everything up. Science always does this if you look at it in this light.

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Originally Posted by yakman

no,
god is when people believe there is an invisible man in the sky, who created the universe and is still around today, listening to our prayers,

science is a set of rules and study which explain the universe,
science has no evidence that anything happens when you pray, science has no evidence that the universe was created by a conscious being

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This is not proof though. Science has always, and always will be, at a lack of evidence somewhere. Just because they don't have conclusive evidence that god answers prayrs, does not mean he doesnt. I think you already know this, so I will go on. In a religious perspective, science does little more than back up what they already know. Science is just a further explanation of the deatils of this world that god created. From a athiest perspective, they don't see the other side, therefore, you thing God has nothing to do with science, because science does not include god.

Let me simplify it. Religion includes and is supported by Science. Science does not include God.
Therefore, depending on your perspective, yes, science is god.

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Originally Posted by jacklcrawl

Scientists have yet to create life in labs

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Um, they have gotten damn close. And defanitly enough to be conclusive for me. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ent-en.svg.png

pretty cool huh? I think its absolutly fascinating how the world just, works, lol.

I believe that every mericale that has ever been performed , can, and may one day, be explained by sceince. Water to wine, walking on water, healing the sick, staff turned into a snake, etc. And i reallly look foreward to see how he pulled them off :)

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Originally Posted by dan cardin

That proves nothing. [@ jacklcrawls post]

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absolutly right. It is nothing more than an explanation, no proof at all. It is still valid for him though, just perhaps not for you.

I would have to agree with much of what LordGregGreg is saying about the connection between science and God.

As time goes on we are discovering more things about the universe and science as we know it. This leads me to the conclusion that there is a vast unimaginable amount of knowledge in the universe that has yet to be discovered . I believe that everything that is science based has at one time believed to be supernatural of some sort. I imagine that the men who discovered fire thought that spirits aided them or they had some magical power to create it. They didnt think that there was a combustion reaction going on that created the fire...

I then extrapolated this idea that the spiritual things that have happened in this world have been made by science, however we have not discovered how it works or why it happens, therefore we dub it as "spiritual" or "supernatural" due to our lack of knowledge in those areas. I feel that if we understood the universe enough we would be able to understand the dynamics and composition of what makes up an "angle" or a "demon" or even God. Just because we dont understand or cant explain something doesnt mean that it isnt science based, but it means that it has yet to be experimented on and classified in the science world.

There can be no proof of how the universe was created, thus there is only faith. Faith that God created the universe, or faith that the universe was created by the big bang. Each require faith to believe, but neither can be proved.

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Originally Posted by Dan Cardin

Thats the best reason you can give for God's actions or should i say lack of action, and everything that is complained about that he doesnt do? That proves nothing. It only tries to serve as a flimsy argument to make up for a lack of reason

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LOL? What are you talking about? I was responding to who created God. Dan, do you know how long it's been since I felt it was worth responding to you? I find myself constantly turning the other cheek to your remarks, but right now I don't feel like doing so. Grow up. Don't you dare insult my God.

@Old Greg

I'm going to PM you about your posts.

Show me any life that scientists have created and I will eat my words. It's only conclusive when you can back your claims.

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Originally Posted by JackLKrawl

LOL? What are you talking about? I was responding to who created God. Dan, do you know how long it's been since I felt it was worth responding to you? I find myself constantly turning the other cheek to your remarks, but right now I don't feel like doing so. Grow up. Don't you dare insult my God.

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why is it that we can have a discussion all day long about politics, criticize each others believes, and no-one gets offended or insulted,
yet when we discuss religion, everyone suddenly has to become incredibly respectful and not say anything bad about the other,

people these days disproportionately respectful of religion,

people in Saudi Arabia justify their abuse of women on religious grounds,

if the makers of Apartheid in South Africa had any sense, they would justify it on religious grounds,
"Oh no, we can't allow coloured and white people to mix, it is against our religion"
if they did that, Apartheid would have lasted much longer then it did.

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Originally Posted by LordGregGreg

Ok, evidence; Evolution, nothing more than showing how god did creation. Science talking about how gravity pulled mass together to form planets, nothing more than showing how God organised matter. Scientific laws about how the world works, nothing more than a more deatiled (then the bible, etc) explanation of how God set everything up. Science always does this if you look at it in this light.

Just because they don't have conclusive evidence that god answers prayrs, does not mean he doesnt. I think you already know this, so I will go on. In a religious perspective, science does little more than back up what they already know. Science is just a further explanation of the deatils of this world that god created. From a athiest perspective, they don't see the other side, therefore, you thing God has nothing to do with science, because science does not include god.

Let me simplify it. Religion includes and is supported by Science. Science does not include God.
Therefore, depending on your perspective, yes, science is god.

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when science discovers stuff, you cannot help but notice that there is no room left for God,
if God somehow managed to fit in, he must be very very lazy, since he does no work,

and religion is only supported by science because you guys keep changing your story,
"The earth isnt the center of the universe, its just one small corner of a galaxy of which there are many others"
"well the part which said 'God created the earth in the center of everything' is just metaphorical, its interesting how he tricks foolish humans like us, the lord works in mysterious ways :P"

"All living things in the world come from a common ancestor, and they slowly evolved from one another"
"Oh well the creation story is just a dumbed-down version of it, but its really the same thing in essence"


science does not agree with religion, evolution is a blatant contradiction of creation, you simply cannot say they are a different way of telling the same story.

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Originally Posted by LordGregGreg

This is not proof though. Science has always, and always will be, at a lack of evidence somewhere.

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so therefore God exists?
this is the god-of-gaps argument
"science can't explain something? no problem, just let God explain it, its easy"
if theory A is incorrect, theory B must be correct :p

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Originally Posted by Yakman

why is it that we can have a discussion all day long about politics, criticize each others believes, and no-one gets offended or insulted,
yet when we discuss religion, everyone suddenly has to become incredibly respectful and not say anything bad about the other,

people these days disproportionately respectful of religion,

people in Saudi Arabia justify their abuse of women on religious grounds,

if the makers of Apartheid in South Africa had any sense, they would justify it on religious grounds,
"Oh no, we can't allow coloured and white people to mix, it is against our religion"
if they did that, Apartheid would have lasted much longer then it did.

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Think about it this way. If I walked into your house, and started insulting someone dear to you, would you get offended?

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Originally Posted by JackLKrawl

Think about it this way. If I walked into your house, and started insulting someone dear to you, would you get offended?

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i fail to see how this forum is your house, technically no-one has forced you to read this,

although i can see where you're coming from,
but what i fail to see is why it only applies to religion,

many people take their politics very seriously, they go on protest marches, pay membership fees and volunteer their spare time to help their cause,
in short, they do everything a religious person does,

and if you can have a debate with them about it, and no-one will get offended, you will just get a clear "I believe in the Conservative party because of X, Y and Z"

you can replace politics with almost any belief, like "open-source", "women's rights" or "black power"

so what i dont get is why if you try the same thing with religion, people get terribly offended when its not necessary.
what is it about religion that makes is to exclusively uptight

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Originally Posted by Yakman

i fail to see how this forum is your house, technically no-one has forced you to read this,

although i can see where you're coming from,
but what i fail to see is why it only applies to religion,

many people take their politics very seriously, they go on protest marches, pay membership fees and volunteer their spare time to help their cause,
in short, they do everything a religious person does,

and if you can have a debate with them about it, and no-one will get offended, you will just get a clear "I believe in the Conservative party because of X, Y and Z"

you can replace politics with almost any belief, like "open-source", "women's rights" or "black power"

so what i dont get is why if you try the same thing with religion, people get terribly offended when its not necessary.
what is it about religion that makes is to exclusively uptight

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This forum isn't my house, I did not mean to make that implication. O_o It's fully open to debate, you can put anything in the Bible to trial and I'll try to answer as patiently and accurately as possible, unless you don't read like Dan.

The reason it doesn't generally apply to politics or science theories, is because you don't believe you have an intimate relationship with your creator. You don't believe you have an intimate relationship with your supernova, so you have no real reason to be offended. I can talk about why Obama isn't a good president, you might get irritated because you like him, but you probably won't be angered or offended by it.

There are more Protestant Sects than you can shake a stick at, so of course you won't get a straight answer or even the same answer except occasionally.

What makes religion exclusively uptight? The religion's beliefs. I believe that Jesus Christ was crucified and that his apostles were hunted down, tortured and murdered to hide the truth. When someone denies something as heinous as this, of course you get angry. It differentiates from Science, because Science "evolves" and thrives off of criticism and doubt - not so much history.

Another example would be the Holocaust. Did you know that they no longer teach it in England and parts of Europe because Muslims do not believe in it? Hundreds of thousands of people were murdered, and they just get waved goodbye in their history books because a dangerous population does not believe the Holocaust happened.

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Originally Posted by Yakman

when science discovers stuff, you cannot help but notice that there is no room left for God

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I have yet to find one instance of it.

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Originally Posted by Yakman

if God somehow managed to fit in, he must be very very lazy, since he does no work,

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"lazy" is just a perspective. Think what you like, but all of these scientific laws, how everyhting works, that is his doing. It is not lazy in my eyes... perhaps setting something up that runs prety much on its own is lazy to you, who cares, trivial point.

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Originally Posted by Yakman

and religion is only supported by science because you guys keep changing your story,

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Some people do, yes. It makes some seince though, when new science comes out, it lets you get a little bit more insight to how god does his stuff. I have yet to see anything, other than human interpretations, be changed.

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Originally Posted by Yakman

"The earth isnt the center of the universe, its just one small corner of a galaxy of which there are many others"
"well the part which said 'God created the earth in the center of everything' is just metaphorical, its interesting how he tricks foolish humans like us, the lord works in mysterious ways :P"

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sure, that is obviously bull, complelty trying to cover up a mistake. But look, there is nothing in my religious texts that sais anything about the earth being in the center. In fact, this realm of though origonated back in greek times, aristotle and his crew thought it up, not the bible.

Sure, any religions where you belive in what someone else interprets is just asking for stupid mistakes based on ignorance. Anything based on a belief i god, is not .

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Originally Posted by Yakman

"All living things in the world come from a common ancestor, and they slowly evolved from one another"
"Oh well the creation story is just a dumbed-down version of it, but its really the same thing in essence"

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I happen to see these things in agreance. Or at least mostly. I don't see anything wrong with that either.

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Originally Posted by Yakman

science does not agree with religion, evolution is a blatant contradiction of creation, you simply cannot say they are a different way of telling the same story.

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but I can, and they are. It is not blantant at all, expect to the people who belivive that God phyisically and in real 7 days us time build up an earth, with distinkt stages of population.

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Originally Posted by Yakman

so therefore God exists?

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No -.-. I was not making any argument or proof showing his existance, please stop taking it like that.

Here, let me show you the patern. Someone sais that "x" disproves god. I say, no, "x" is not proof at all.

And then you somehow take me saying that.. as me acting like I have proof? crazy talk. I have said before, and again, and again now, that there is not any proof in either direction.

@jack, I have responded to your pm, sorry for angering you. And by "conlusive" i meant the fact that amino acids were made in 15 days.. is remarakable enough for me. My proof would be the results of that experiment. The rest is just my judgement, could be wrong.

They have successfully created organic compounds from those that they believe to have been on earth at the time. They applied electricity to a slightly acid but mineral rich water, and proteins started forming.

Living cells were never formed though.

But it shows that they might be formed randomly, as ratios and chances never are perfect. For example, if I flipped a coin 500 times, it very well could come out heads all 500 times, even though the probability of getting either is 50%.

The Evangelist minister in the link I posted a while back said that when God created the universe, he made some galaxies spin backwards to make believers of the big bang look stupid.

I thought that was funny. The only thing that I disagreed about in his video was the claim that life is fueled by oxygen, and that it couldn't exist without it. This is false. Nitrogen is the reason life is able to exist.

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But it shows that they might be formed randomly, as ratios and chances never are perfect. For example, if I flipped a coin 500 times, it very well could come out heads all 500 times, even though the probability of getting either is 50%.

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Really doesn't matter R0b0t. Scientists have had more than enough trials for funds to create life, it's obvious that it takes more than topnotch lab work to do so.

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Originally Posted by JackLKrawl

Really doesn't matter R0b0t. Scientists have had more than enough trials for funds to create life, it's obvious that it takes more than topnotch lab work to do so.

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Yes, you are right. It takes plenty of time. Billions of years for the noise to make something useful.

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Originally Posted by R0b0t1

But it shows that they might be formed randomly, as ratios and chances never are perfect. For example, if I flipped a coin 500 times, it very well could come out heads all 500 times, even though the probability of getting either is 50%.

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That's different, because people have flipped coins on both sides before, and so it is possible to toss a coin and end up with heads and tails.

However, scientists have tried to create living cells, but they can't. They tried to prove their theories by showing that it's possible to create life with a bunch of amino acids, but they failed.