In Estonia, this is a big problem, too.Quote:
Originally Posted by n3ss3s
"Beep, beep, and money is coming!"
Many, many people have got theirselves into trouble with that.
The interest is very big, too.
~Eerik~
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In Estonia, this is a big problem, too.Quote:
Originally Posted by n3ss3s
"Beep, beep, and money is coming!"
Many, many people have got theirselves into trouble with that.
The interest is very big, too.
~Eerik~
Us Americans are always paranoid. Something like Sept. 11 scares us to death. I don't think that someones going to attack us but I'm a little paranoid about russia... Russia's making noises that they want to take back their old territories, which are rightfully their own countries, russia doesn't deserve them, no offense to anyone russian, if there is anyone Russian here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wizzup?
However my reason for saying this is that Russia could sever some of the pipelines that get us oil. I know that the prices of oil in Europe are already high.
Cut em2 it
I wish they did not bail-out AIG. That AIG company is a complete ass-hole.
Wouldn't it be surprising if someone fixed everything all of the sudden... Now what would be the chance of that?
The bailed out Bear Stearns because they thought if they could catch it early, it would stop the continual slide in stock prices that led to this crisis. Back in the late 80's there was a Savings and Loan crisis here in the US. If the government had intervened in 1986 it would have cost about $200 billion. They waited until 1988 when it cost $1.4 trillion to bail everyone out. The government took over all the bad loans that had been handed out, and actually ended up making a small profit over the long term. So a $1.4 trillion bailout doesn't mean it cost that much. That's how much money was "at risk".
If the government had known that bailing out Bearn Stearns for 29 billion wouldn't help, they would have let them go bankrupt. Not because the government can't afford it, but because it goes against the principles of capitalism.
Then there was Fannie/Freddy. That was a mess waiting to implode for over 10 years now. It was a quasi-government entity, which meant that stockholders made money on the profits, but the government had an implicit guarantee to cover the risks. In July Congress passed a bill to make that guarantee explicit. And then they eventually took them over. They did this primarily because of the government guarantee, but also because it was so large that if it failed it would have wreaked havoc on the entire world financial system. It was "too big to fail". The bailout protected many foreign countries that had invested in bonds. China has 10% of it's GDP invested in Fannie/Freddy bonds. The bailout kept China from losing all that money, which would destroy confidence in the US government and make the world financial system implode as trillions of dollars of US government bonds owned by countries around the world plummeted in price.
AIG was bailed out because they had insurance contracts to businesses around the globe. Another "too big to fail" company. If AIG would have collapsed, it would have caused a domino effect where hundreds or thousands of companies that relied on AIG insurance against credit swap losses suddenly had to realize their own losses, and would be forced into bankruptcy. The government will almost certainly make money on this $85 billion bailout, though, since it's a loan at about 15% interest which pretty much everyone expects will be paid back within 2 years.
They let Lehman Bro. go bankrupt on principle. They could have bailed them out too, but chose not to.
Despite all the doom and gloom, Warren Buffet, who is one of the richest men on the planet and an Obama supporter is now buying up companies as fast as he can. He had a large cash reserve, and while many are hoarding cash and buying gold, he's spending big time. That proves to me that he thinks this is a temporary crisis, and that now is a good time to get into investments while the prices are low.
Oil is the new gold. If you control oil, you control the world. Now Russia is apparently sitting on a huge oil field with parts of it in surrounding countries. Now naturally by taking back these old territories, Russia is effectively giving themselves more power of the world.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cut em2 it
I believe its the same thing with America and Iraq. Iraq also has large supplies of oil. By helping Iraq rebuild their country America ensures that they're partially in control of this oil and thus control of just a bit more of the world. Now perhaps there were many reasons that lead to the American invasion but controlling Middle Eastern oil was definately one of them.
Now back on topic... the Australian economy isn't doing as bad as the US or UK economies. This is mainly due to the Chinese demand for raw materials such as iron and other metal ores to fuel the Chinese economic boom. This boom has kept the Australian economy from sliding into a recession. However the rising fuel/food prices have caused a lot of hardship for people on low/no incomes recently. The cost of housing is still pretty high and interest rates were high for a while.
700 billion dollar bailout deal?
What do yall think of that.
they talked about it on friday 19th, its now next friday 26th.
shows how good the democratic system is for getting things done...
if they wanted to take this in a true capitalistic way, they would just let it all collapse.
but they are bringing socialist values into it, their old partner who they've turned their back on.
Well, goverment interference got us into this mess (I had my dad explain it to me). The democrat politicians in the Clinton years decided everyone should be able to get a loan, so they (basically) nationalised Freddy/Fanny and made the qualifications for loans go down dramatically and they took almost any applicant, so this off balanced the market because people would go to Freddy/Fanny and get a loan, so others had to lower their requirements as well, and it was a domino effect resulting in the powder keg it is now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yakman
So the liberals in charge of it at the same time, imbessled LOTS of money, INCLUDING Barack Obama, who, has been in the senate for 3 years (2 of those he wasnt compaigning but still only voting "Present"), Barack was the 3rd(?) highest recipient of money from Freddy/Fanny over people who had been getting money from it for 10+ years...
IMO all the liberals call for investigation after investigation on stupid shit, when we have goverment officials imbessling money and no note of investigation has been raised...
The only thing that worries me about this $700 billion bailout package is that Paulson was talking about "market prices" versus "hold to maturity prices".
Right now the market price of bad debt is much, much lower than the hold to maturity price. Since so many of the loans are either already in default, or at risk of going into default, buying every loan for face value is utterly ridiculous. And if the slide in housing prices continues, more and more people will default, just because they don't feel like paying $300k for a house only worth $200k now, for example. They'd rather walk away and give it back to the bank.
If they plan to buy up all this bad debt for the maturity price, the taxpayers are going to get utterly screwed. If they buy it at market prices, they will probably make a profit.
One problem they face now is that if the Democrats tack on all sorts of punishments and regulations for taking government funds, and if the government only offers the company the market value for their loans, why would any company take it?
My guess is that the Dems will pass a bunch of feel good earmarks along with it, and then Paulson will buy up all the debt for double or triple what it's worth, so the taxpayer still gets screwed despite the extra junk added on for political reasons.
No matter what, this is BAD, BAD, BAD. I have very little hope that it will end well.
The whole problem and Yakman said it earlier in this thread (but apparently didnt see it as a bad thing) is that the politicians do not look at the government like its a buisness, instead, the dems see it as a way to get into power. So they use the taxpayers money (95% of the time it is pork) and use it on their areas and just spend as much as they want because they can just slap more tax on people and get more money... If the dems treated the government as a buisness then they would only do what is best for the country (financially at least), which 99% of the time is stay out of the market's buisness...
tbh, i disagree,Quote:
Originally Posted by sirlaughsalot
its the natural cycle of capitalism to have boom and bust,
goverment interference can accelerate or slow it down, but it cannot stop or start it.
no government operates like a business, if they did, there would be a conflict of intrests between it and its people, so eventually it would be ousted.
Thats true to a degree but i dont think mortgage companies ect have a whole lot of boom/bust as far as major companies crashing...Quote:
Originally Posted by Yakman
Not really, people (defined as taxpayers), love small government and if the government spent money on things that they should spend it on (defense/infrastructure) then i think everything would be better, i also dont think we should have tarrifs/unneeded taxes on things, sure some people may have a hard time, but if you have a farm, you can grow something to make money, i dont think that sugar grows where other things cant, what i mean by a "buisness" is to try not to put a whole lot of burden on the taxpayer, less socialism, smaller government.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yakman
What most people dont seem to understand is liberal politicians LOVE power, the majority of them, if given enough power would be dictators (it could happen to anyone, but the republicans/conservatives i believe would turn down the job) that is why they love big government and appeal to the minorities...
Its nice to finally actually be in a forum that isn't 95% liberals...
Bradford and Bingley are going down the drain, here is the bbc details
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7639199.stm
Treasury in talks to secure B&B .
Officials from the Treasury and the Financial Services Authority are in talks with executives from Bradford & Bingley in a bid to secure its future.
A statement on its future will be made before the markets open on Monday, a Treasury spokesperson said.
B&B's share price has plummeted and it has announced plans to cut 370 jobs due to the downturn in the mortgage market.
A number of options, including the sale of B&B to another bank or nationalisation, are being considered.
"The Treasury, the FSA, and the Bank of England are working closely with Bradford & Bingley to consider the implications for their business of the recent financial turmoil," a Treasury spokesperson said.
Nationalisation followed by a swift sell-off of some of B&B's assets is a strong possibility, the BBC's political correspondent Iain Watson said.
The most likely bank to step in is Banco Santander, according to the BBC's business editor Robert Peston.
The Spanish firm which already owns Abbey and Alliance & Leicester has been looking at the British bank for some time.
Full nationalisation, which could well include merging B&B with Northern Rock, was very much the final resort if all else fails, Robert Peston said.
'Don't faff'
Liberal Democrat Treasury spokesman Vince Cable said it was imperative that whatever the solution for B&B, it must be decisive and there should not be a repeat of the delays following the crisis at Northern Rock.
"If the bank is in serious difficulty, the best option is if it were taken over by another bank and without any involvement by the taxpayer," he said.
"But the speculation in the national newspapers is that that won't happen and in which case it will effectively be nationalised, and that's what a takeover of Northern Rock actually means.
"I just hope this time the government doesn't faff around for four or five months getting this sorted out and just gets on with it."
'Strongly capitalised'
All three of the main credit ratings agencies have downgraded B&B's creditworthiness, citing its problems raising funds and the excessive exposure of its mortgage book to buy-to-let and self-certified borrowers.
But Richard Pym, the recently-appointed chief executive, insisted the bank was "strongly capitalised" and was "fit for purpose going forward".
And Mr Cable said depositors should not panic because their money would be guaranteed by the government under the Financial Services Compensation Scheme.
The first £35,000 of savers' money in each banking group is protected under the scheme.
The prime minister was asked about B&B during his visit to New York for a UN development meeting.
He said: "I wouldn't comment, and nobody would expect me to comment, on these speculative statements that are made in newspapers.
"I'm not going to comment on any individual company or building society."
Conservative leader David Cameron also refused to comment on the situation at B&B.
But he said the Bank of England needed new powers to rescue failing banks.
Details of the plan, which is designed to stave off the threat to B&B and prevent a repeat of the Northern Rock crisis, will be outlined at the Conservative Party conference on Monday.
Dutch AEX index:
http://www.behr.nl/cgi-bin/GIFmd.py?...ex&md=24&key=0
Not so long ago it was 550.00, now it is just above 350.00. But the economic stuff is not affecting us, just the euro and inflation suck.
yeah, adding you on msn ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Brown
I wish i would keep more up do date with this economics stuff, but im gonna take an economics course next semester...
This "too big to fail" concept sucks balls, large companies need to know they can fail and have good buisness dealings instead of the government bailing people out left and right...
Holy crap...
Yesterday the dow went down 700 points. We're screwed. It's going up right now, but this 778 points really took a big hit on the market.
Seattle-based Washington Mutual is now being bought out by JP-Morgan Chase. Everyone has to just hang in here. It's not going to get any better before it gets worse....
Cut em2 it
Were not skrewed... It started going down before the voting began, meaning investors did not like the bill... Personally i think that the bailout, is for one a temporary fix, and two, a free market will fix itself, and three it creates and open door for government control of our economy, and since when has the government been able to handle finances well?Quote:
Originally Posted by Cut em2 it
We lost 7% yesterday. WOOT!
So yeah... gfg banks. Gov't shouldn't of released the policies on loans.
No matter what's happening to the market, I think this year's holidays are going to be a disappointment because people are worried about the market. Then it gets worse from there.
Cut em2 it
I heard the Asian and the European markets suffered yesterday.
DOW jones is back up 5% btw.
yea it rose 450 points today...
idk is this going to lead us to great depression?
It might. I believe that it's unforseeable wether this is just a little dip or a serious problem. My advice to everyone is to not sell, that just makes the market worse...
Cut em2 it
I doubt there's a high amount of people that have stocks on these forums. lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Cut em2 it
I do :p ETrade pl0x lol.
Anyways back on correct grammar:
I think that the U.S. economy is going to be hit the worst, if anywhere at all. However Washington Mutual is a bad thing, I almost put all of my savings in WaMu :S
Cut em2 it
Its more or less a Global economy now. If one place hurts usually there's a domino effect and it hurts others as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cut em2 it
True. Something is going to happen here in America and people are going to flock to world markets if those happen to be doing well.
Cut em2 it
Here's a nice video that sums up how it happened.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RZVw...d=event_743112
It goes fast, you may need to pause a few times, but everything in it is fact.
Yeah, that's a very informative video. It's amazing to hear the Dems and especially the Congressional Black Caucus attacking regulators while praising the crooked CEO of Fannie.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brown
Here's another very informative (and a little bit scary) video about our monetary system. It's 40 minutes, but it's entertaining and VERY worth watching.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...&q=documentary
i have $29,000 of Shares.Quote:
Originally Posted by Narcle
Very interesting stuff on those videos. We're going to pull out of this, maybe it's going to get worse from here, or maybe it will get better, not really soon, but somewhere down the road.
Cut em2 it
The fact is, if you let the free market do its thing, it will fix itself, the economy wont collapse, the democrats simply wanted to fix this problem quickly so no questions would be asked about who was involved and what happened...Quote:
Originally Posted by Cut em2 it
I heard that theirs a new plan in place for our tax dollars in America to go to a bail out program where china will bail us out. I cannot believe that people would even think of resorting to a foreign country to help us bail out. That's like selling us to the Chinese! How absurd for our tax dollars going to help get jobs for people in China, which is where our tax dollars would go. Sorry that's ridiculous.
We have to wait for the economy to fix itself and not take drastic measures to bail out some people that may have made some bad decisions....
Cut em2 it
those videos were quite interesting, although I'm wondering why they were not articles, books or essays. It took me 45 minutes to watch one video, in that time i could have read an article that contained twice as much information.
videos are slightly annoying, they say "...made by innovative minds", then they show a picture of a brain with a light bulb next to it, YES I KNOW WHAT AN INNOVATE BRAIN IS, THANK YOU
they also say "this was the foot in the door", then show a cartoon picture of a foot in a door... YES I KNOW WHAT A FOOT IN A DOOR IS
i knew a bit about the money not being real before i saw the video. you could see how people today don't seem to create any value, but just move money from pocket to pocket.
the same problem was addressed in the New Deal in the 1920 in America, the government made all the unemployed people work for their daily bread. They built bridges, roads, dug coal and cut wood. In other words, they created value, and did not just move value around. so with that, the country slowly moved itself out of depression, by creating new real value.
might happen after the current crisis too, if loads of people lose their jobs.
as for the first video, i find it hard to believe that a couple of laws passed can affect the stability of economy of the entire world. It smacks of the attitude of believing you're the center of the universe.
It might be a bit more believable if the video wasn't so bias against Obama, every sentence drips with the message DONT VOTE FOR HIM!!
/EchosQuote:
Originally Posted by Cut em2 it
Seriously, we cant have a "too big to fail" policy, we shouldnt bail out the humongous companies, I dont really know the reprocussions, i am not a financial expert by any means, but i listen to Rush Limbaugh (a liberals steak to the heart) and he has had several people on recently saying it is semi-artificial, and highly political, the democrats are trying to scrounge up some votes with this and i dont see how that is possible considering they got us into this mess in the first place! And i believe them, sure these companies are crashing, but it will not bring down the whole economy with them...
Sorry, I'm not a huge fan of Rush Limbaugh. I do agree that when our government gets scared, the citizens get scared with them and the economy collapses. Just a domino effect from there. Such a fragile world....Quote:
Originally Posted by sirlaughsalot
Cut em2 it
I love when people glare at me when they hear me listening to Rush...Quote:
Originally Posted by sirlaughsalot
God forbid they hear such heresy because they don't hear it on MSNBC...
Here's a good read about Obama's correlation to the crisis:
http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/..._strategy.html
they revoted and got passed now to the house hopefully it will pass.
I have mixed feelings about this whole bailout plan, I'm not exactly sure that I want it to pass, however I think that we need to bail out the economy.
Cut em2 it