Um, yeah? You're saying that we should be giving free houses away? Or am I missing something O_o?Quote:
Originally Posted by kingarabian
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Um, yeah? You're saying that we should be giving free houses away? Or am I missing something O_o?Quote:
Originally Posted by kingarabian
Wanna know the reason for foreclosures and banks going bankrupt? The high interest rate. You see with 20% of your income going to taxes, you dont have extra money to buy a new car or a new house without takin a loan. And when you take a loan from the bank you get no-were. Yes you got what you want but your going to be paying for it a whole lot. If the banks/feds were not greedy then life would be much easier.Quote:
Originally Posted by Runescapian
Say you wanna buy a new Acura. It costs 17k. Those 17k went to taxes. So what you do you go to the bank. The bank slaps you double. They give you 17k and you buy the car, but you have to owe back the bank 34-40k. They wont lend you 17k and you pay an extra 3k more or something. So I dont see the freedom here. Were banks and feds controlling everything.
Educate yourself first. Its called interest, its how loans work. Nothings a free service. You cant borrow $17,000 for awhile. If you do your gonna have to pay more. You think the government controls a lot here, then you should definitely not be voting for Obama. Its a known fact that Liberals want more government control while conservatives want less. Socialism = Government owns EVERYTHING.Quote:
Originally Posted by kingarabian
I did not say for the banks to give 17000 dollars like that. I suggested for them to cut the interest rates.Quote:
Originally Posted by nobody u kno
And obama is not a socialist end of story. Seriously I like how some of you guys stretched it.
Have good credit and you wont have to worry, it was Sub-Prime mortgages, which means, mortgages to people with low wages and who haven't prooven to be good for it(as in paying the banks back). It wasnt wall-street's fault for "being greedy" it was the peoples fault, and the government's because they forced the banks to give people sub-prime mortgages. I would say more the government's because they started the vicious cycle.Quote:
Originally Posted by kingarabian
i seriously dont see how thats even possible,Quote:
Originally Posted by sirlaughsalot
laws seem to force people to not do things, you're not allowed to kill people or whatever,
how can you force someone to do something,
its like passing a law that forces people to sell strawberry flavored ice cream,
<person> but i dont want to sell that flavor!
<government> tough, you're doing it!
it doesnt work like that,
also, the ice cream sellers have loads of money and friends in high places, such a law would never be passed.
I'm not 100% sure, but I believe a bill was passed that did exactly that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yakman
@kingarabian
Consider yourself lucky if you/your parents pay just 20% income tax. My parents pay about 40, and Obama wants to drastically raise that on us. == Not fair. Btw - My parents are doctors. I'm assuming all doctors pay about this much now and will pay much more if Obama becomes president. Soon, it won't be worth going through all those years of Med School and residency just to be getting a job where you get a good salary, but give over half to the government. Less doctors = higher healthcare costs. Now, Obama wants the government to pay that. Therefore - higher taxes.
Obama will win... Even though I don't want him to win that is what will happen. McCain would be such a better president but there's too many ignorant people in the world for him to win.
Edit: did anyone hear about how he spent 6 million dollars for a 30 minute infomercial on a few main network stations a few days ago? ROFL
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yakman
lol do you know what taxes are? that is forcing someone to do something, they would have to pay high penalties if they didnt give those loans, thats how they would force them... Weve been through this before...
Well, actually, I don't mind that, because the money that he used was given to him by donators strictly just to advertise his campaign (Stupid donators :rolleyes:).Quote:
Originally Posted by nhstarter10
By the way - Anyone know how he's going to get all that money for those new projects (new energy, free healthcare, etc.) when he promises to bring down taxes and bring down all of the debts the US owes to other countries :confused:
Hes going to raise taxes on people... how else? IMO we are all going to be broke pretty soon lol.
UGh, I knew this was going to get out of hand... T.T
So majority says Obama...
and with 2 days until election day...
I <3 debate threads because i always win ;) but seriously, this is the internet, it tends to lean towards the left...Quote:
Originally Posted by noodlesalan
It's not too hard to win when you're arguing against Obama/for McCain :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by sirlaughsalot
I'm not giving up my hopes on McCain though, he has a decent chance. I'd say it's probably like 64% chance that Obama wins, 35% that McCain wins, 1% Other (Ralph Nater wins, the world blows up, all the candidates die, etc O_o).
I think that McCain will win, but Obama will be the President, hopefully the ACORN effects will be reversed but i doubt it. I do think its funny the past 2 elections republicans have won without the state with the most electoral votes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Runescapian
It also is kinda funny that in the days when racism was rampant in the south were the days when the Democrat's controlled them. Yet black people follow Democrats en-masse (not all mind you, but the majority). It really is sad because Democrats know that if you want to have power you have to have people below you and have them rely on you. So they promise all of these social programs to make them reliant on the government.
All of this stuff is very elaborate and i think highly intelligent on the Democrats part, but the ideas they preach are impractical and intend to keep people opressed.
But yea, if someone actually wastes their vote with Nader.... no comment.
I'm writing in a nominee: Brian Peppers.
That'd be hilarious.
I take that back.
That would be terrible.
Im very surprised to see that the majority of the people on this thread are for McCain. All the other threads ive ran into on the internet are full of ill-informed and media brainwashed liberals who couldnt form their opinion if their life depended on it.
Uhm, most of the people here are liberal, not conservative.
The people who are conservative are voicing their opinions the most, that's why.
Why do all the pro-McCain posts suddenly calling everyone else ignorant/brainwashed? Obama plans to pay for his new programs by getting rid of useless government-funded programs, I'm pretty sure he's said that on all three of the presidential debates, but it's not like any McCain supporters would watch that.. :rolleyes: Also, isn't Obama just raising taxes to pre-Bush times? It's not that severe...
Why does everyone keep calling Obama Socialist? "Baby steps" my arse, Socialism is NOT the same as a Communist Totalitarian Dictatorship, get it through your head.
(Offtopic, but are words like communist supposed to be capitalized?)
Congratulations for being class-less.Quote:
Originally Posted by sirlaughsalot
@runescapeian
I have 6 children in my family including me. My parents like to have sex. More children the less taxes ;).
I dont like obama's tax plan because I myself want to have a career were I will make alot of money.
But I like his other plans.
And the reason why you mccain backers mainly win, is because the lack of obama supporters on this forum and what you guys like to debate is ridiculous when you know the facts.
Because it is true, the majority of americans have been tricked in a way into their way of thinking, by the mainstream media (please if you are gonna debate with me read my other posts and bring up something new). He is gonna fund his programs with "useless government-funded programs". I have an extreme idea! How bout, we get rid of those programs, and dont replace them with anything else!Quote:
Originally Posted by Widget
He is raising them to pre-Bush times he will not increase taxes so to speak, but he will not renew Bush's tax cuts so taxes will go up. Bush's tax cuts have prooven to be extremely beneficial to our country, our economy has been doing extremely well despite major setbacks. So raising taxes to "Pre-Bush" times will not be horrible but keeping the tax cuts would be better for our country...
Did anyone say they were the same thing? The point is it would proove to be disasterous for our country.
I dont understand what you mean by "class-less" I think it is meant to be an insult but i will assume the best that it isnt.Quote:
Originally Posted by kingarabian
So you like his other plans of? Prematurely withdrawing out of the War in Iraq? That is just about all that i can think of that doesnt directly involve taxes.
Lack of Obama supporters?! Are you out of your mind? I cant seem to find the poll right now but there was one not too long ago and it was something like 50-20 Obama, there isnt a shortage of Obama supporters, McCain supporters just know what they are talking about.
Seriously that post did nothing to further your viewpoint, you did not say why you support Obama, or state any relevant facts...
You're missing parts of my point. I said that people are acting like un-lowering the taxes to pre-Bush times has nothing to do with socialism. Not only does McCain try to link it to socialism, but he goes on to describe things more related to communism, which past experience shows doesn't work well (though never properly executed in theory, they were mainly dictatorships and those are guaranteed to never end well).
I think I've already said this before, but your arguments tend to be the "You don't know what you're talking about, you've been brainwashed by the liberal media/fact-checkers/presidential debates and such" kind. You've pretty much copy/pasted the entire McCain campaign, which even Fox News has called them out on, and they're definitely not liberal in the least. You go out on mainstream media, but conservatives tend to try to knock out non-mainstream competition, so I can't figure out how that works (lobbying ftl).
Unlike McCain, Obama was raised in a rather poor family. He had to rely on his brains and determination to get the scholarships to even get through college. I'm in a similar position (though from debt, not lack of money, my family's net worth is low regardless), but unlike him, I miss out on quite a few scholarships from race/income/IQ and it seems like it will be a lot harder to get a student loan now.
[Offtopic but I'm still curious, why are gas prices still dropping even though the economy has bounced back a fair amount? It's 2.479 USD/Gallon here now, seems to be going down about 2 cents a day]
You were bluffing when you said you win all debates.Quote:
Originally Posted by sirlaughsalot
Yes 50-20. But you do know that the poll is showing to the right of the screen of the forums. So anyone who wants to vote can vote. Alot of obama's backers dont go to the debate section to debate with yall. This forum also has ALOT of people living outside of the U.S. They probably vote to, without knowledge of politics atm. And isnt it ironic how most foreign countries back obama? (it was a study on cnn.com/google it)
LOL. Prematurely... I think obama's plan of getting the hell out of the middle east is pretty mature. I also like his health and education plans. His economy crisis fix plan is really good to. His foreign policy is pretty solid, cause in my opinion right now, bush's policy is fucked up.
For now I do like his tax plan, as my family's income could use the extra money. But for my planned future not really.
I'm so glad I don't live in the USA. The madness about the elections, bah.
I hopes that hot Palin will win.
Less than 1 day guys until we get to vote.....
Have you not heard that Barack Obama said he wants to "redistribute wealth" thats pretty socialistic to me (possibly even communistic).Quote:
Originally Posted by Widget
Fox news called them out on what? People seem to think Fox News is very conservative, it really isnt. There are talk shows that have to do with current events, those tend to lean towards the right (they still even try to get people from both sides of the debate ex. Hannity and Colmes), but their actual news reporting is pretty much in the middle, they try to interview people from both sides, question both sides pretty harshly.
I wasnt bluffing, I was joking, I wasnt trying an intimidation tactic...Quote:
Originally Posted by kingarabian
The people living outside the US tend to lean towards the left as well... Foreign countries back Obama because they want to be in the limelight, they want to be the world power ;)
Do you know what his plan is? I was not aware he had written any major legislation... I personally think that we are almost done in Iraq, but it is stupid to put any condition of leaving a place we are needed other than winning, especially because we CAN win, its not like this is an unwinnable war...
Foreign Policy? Solid? *Thinks about that for a second* Are you talking about Obama? Seriously? Has he written any major legislation? Or served in an executive position? He wants to invade Pakistan, a nuclear country, thats pretty reckless if you ask me, especially as him being an inexperienced senator...
Okay, so you think it is okay to give people who dont pay taxes "tax breaks"? Your family is going through tough times and I am sorry, but being dependant on the government will do nothing for you, it is coming from someone else higher up the chain, and because of the taxes cannot employ people. Everyone is going through hard times, dont think you are the only one, but having the government come in and take over everything is impractical.
He no longer wants out of the Middle East. He used to want that, but now he's planning on leaving 80,000 troops in Iraq indefinitely, and escalating the war in Afghanistan. If anything, our total spending in the Middle East should go UP.Quote:
Originally Posted by kingarabian
As far as his health plan, it's kind of a mess. It's based on HMO's, so there won't be any major cost reductions. And he won't cover everyone. And it will be extremely expensive. And he has said that he will fine people that don't buy health insurance, but won't tell anyone how much that fine will be, or who exactly will be targeted.
He has no education plan. At least none that matters. K-12 is where our system is failing, and he does literally nothing to address that. He wants to add 2 more years of pre-k, which would mean every child starts school at the age of 3. This is feel-good bunk. Studies have proven over and over and over again that pre-k has no lasting educational benefit whatsoever. It's free babysitting, nothing more. And then once the K-12 system spits out failed students, he wants to herd them into college on the taxpayer's dime. Utterly ridiculous and counterproductive.
That's what happens when you got a 'democracy' with only two parties.Quote:
Originally Posted by mastaraymond
[offtopic] Hmm, wiki tages [wiki]Markus[/wiki] [/offtopic]
[/offtopic] I like markus so I'll do the same :p [Acronym=Obama will win]Hover for message (wait 4 secs)[/Acronym]
Obama. Because he has charisma.
falling demand,Quote:
Originally Posted by Widget
less people building stuff or whatever,
clearly the economy has not bounced back as much as was hoped,
OPEC countries actually cut their production to try to increase the price.
Isnt lower gas prices a good thing...?
Lower gas prices is prolly the left wing lowering the prices around the election to show that we dont need to start offshore drilling.
Conspiracy theories lol, but i think that is kind of believable.
Sirlaughalot and Tarajunky have already replied to these, but I'll put my own opinion in...
EDIT: Whats up with the quote tags >_<?
[QUOTE]You're missing parts of my point. I said that people are acting like un-lowering the taxes to pre-Bush times has nothing to do with socialism. Not only does McCain try to link it to socialism, but he goes on to describe things more related to communism, which past experience shows doesn't work well (though never properly executed in theory, they were mainly dictatorships and those are guaranteed to never end well).[\QUOTE]
"un-lowering the taxes"? I hear he wants to cut taxes 'For 95% of Americans' >_< He cuts taxes for the middle class, takes money from the harder-working upper class (not saying that the middle class doesn't work hard, just saying that, in most cases, the people with more money work harder/have worked harder to get to that point). That is definitely a start towards socialismYour point? Sure, he may have had to work harder, but that doesn't mean that he's smarter/better.Quote:
Unlike McCain, Obama was raised in a rather poor family. He had to rely on his brains and determination to get the scholarships to even get through college. I'm in a similar position (though from debt, not lack of money, my family's net worth is low regardless), but unlike him, I miss out on quite a few scholarships from race/income/IQ and it seems like it will be a lot harder to get a student loan now.
I'm not generalizing here, but my relatives in Europe, when asked about the election, usually say "I hope the black guy wins". When I'm in Europe (or at least Lithuania), it seems that quite a few people are racist and usually look down on the few African-....Europeans? there are as uneducated and stupid :\ Of course, as we all know, that's not the case. But, from that, I assume that they imply that since Obama is black, that he wouldn't make a good President, and therefore would make the US weak. Henceforth, they hope he wins and weakens the US. Again, I'm not saying that all Europeans think like this, this is merely what I've seen in my experience in Europe.Quote:
Originally Posted by kingarabian
Or another theory would be that since quite a few European countries have a Socialistic government (I think?), they know what Obama plans to do and want the US to be like them, but that's probably unlikely.I still fail to see your logic in leaving a country in chaos >_<Quote:
LOL. Prematurely... I think obama's plan of getting the hell out of the middle east is pretty mature. I also like his health and education plans. His economy crisis fix plan is really good to. His foreign policy is pretty solid, cause in my opinion right now, bush's policy is fucked up.
For now I do like his tax plan, as my family's income could use the extra money. But for my planned future not really.
His problem with healthcare (I think I already mentioned it, not sure) -
Ok, so the government pays for all of it. Where does the government get this money? - Taxes. Now, the price of healthcare obviously depends greatly on doctors (how many there are, how expensive operations are, etc.). Most doctors make over the 250,000 that Obama would reduce taxes on, and therefore doctors would be getting taxed more. There would be less motivation for younger people to become doctors because it wouldn't be worth going through all those years of med school and residency just for an OK paying job. == Higher healthcare prices == Higher taxes.
If Obama could get all of this money for stuff (Healthcare, New energy, etc.), I'd be amazed. Furthermore, if he was to do that AND cut taxes AND start paying off the US's debt to other countries, I'd be twice as amazed. But to get all this money solely from removing governmental programs that have no use? Not going to happen. If you could get all of this money from just doing that, don't you think somebody would have done it long ago? This just indicates how inexperienced Obama is.
Thats what my dad said to. Probably to aid mccain since most americans dont trust him with the economy.Quote:
Originally Posted by nobody u kno
If you like 40+ hot women, vote for McCain. (I'm for.)
If you like 40+ hot women as president, vote for McCain. (I'm against.)
If you like African-American culture, vote for Obama. (I'm for.)
If you want crazy radicalist preachers as your president's left wing, vote for Obama. (I'm against.)
Sorry guys, I'm going with McCain.
Pro-gun, ftw :)
Well guys, todays the day!
Obama all the way!
its not believable at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by nobody u kno
you cant just change prices at your own whim
its probably good for you since you drive a car, and food is brought to your town by lorries which need petrol, and you fly around in planes and use electricity.Quote:
Originally Posted by kingarabian
however, its not good if you produce the oil, if you're from Saudi Arabia.
also, its not good for america, since they get less profit from iraq.
btw, how many of you guys are actually old enough to vote?