Logical Proof of God's Existence

From my point of view, not believing in god, people failed making a story for how life came on earth. You see, (afaik)according to bible there just were Adam and Eve, (So don't complain about dark matter just 'poffing'), who were banished from the garden, but they have no explanation for other animals? That will work for long because people want to know about their origin, people who work in scientifical jobs, e.g archeology etc, don't believe in god and won't be any trouble for church by asking "What about animals".

Animals are just like humans, except for the size of our brain, humans aren't some divine creatures, and for me, this is one of the things that science wins church in. Church explained only humans, I doubt that if you ask a priest or some other dude who just knows the bible well, that he will tell you animals also ate god's (tempted to say chips, but I'll do my best not to :( ) fruit, and were banished to earth.

Also, where did god come from, since it seems to be the origin of everything? Maybe this all could work, but no-one has any idea where has this god come from, and they'll just say it has been there forever and will be, or something like that, but why the hell do people who believe in god claim so while they deny that dark matter can't just pop into the world?!

i believe in god, but to be honest, i dont believe in Jesus, or the Bible for that matter.

if you look at religion all over the world, it all has the same umm for lack of a better word perspective. its all worshiping a higher power, as they we ow we came to being, jsut interpetted (i cant spell i know) differently.

just my opinion, dont call me a hypocrite for not believing in the bible, i just think that the stories in the bible are not meant to be taken literally, and waaaay to many people do.

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Originally Posted by n3ss3s

From my point of view, not believing in god, people failed making a story for how life came on earth. You see, (afaik)according to bible there just were Adam and Eve, (So don't complain about dark matter just 'poffing'), who were banished from the garden, but they have no explanation for other animals? That will work for long because people want to know about their origin, people who work in scientifical jobs, e.g archeology etc, don't believe in god and won't be any trouble for church by asking "What about animals".

Animals are just like humans, except for the size of our brain, humans aren't some divine creatures, and for me, this is one of the things that science wins church in. Church explained only humans, I doubt that if you ask a priest or some other dude who just knows the bible well, that he will tell you animals also ate god's (tempted to say chips, but I'll do my best not to :( ) fruit, and were banished to earth.



Also, where did god come from, since it seems to be the origin of everything? Maybe this all could work, but no-one has any idea where has this god come from, and they'll just say it has been there forever and will be, or something like that, but why the hell do people who believe in god claim so while they deny that dark matter can't just pop into the world?!

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Thats the problem about Christianity. They dont fully explain everything, and make new editions to the bible every year. So the bible is not gods words anymore. Instead its us humans. (No im not being racist to christians. Im just saying that flaw is big against athiests.) Try studying or read about islam once. It will answer most of your guys questions.

I said that from the start. The modern day bible is filled with the churches bullshit and mis-translations.

And as for atheists having less faith? Thats a bit simplistic too, then. They have to believe in something about the world, maybe they believe in Evolutionism? Just because not everyone believes in Creationism doesn't mean they are not faithful. An atheist guy marries, is he not very faithful towards his wife? Right. You cant say someone who is a non-believer has more or less faith.

And n3ss3s, you bring up a good point, Christians believe in the Creationism theory, that God creates everything, but they do not except the big bang, that matter was created, but Afaik, God = Matter?

According to Einstein's threory anyway, we can see the past, and we can see the future. We can go back into the past, as we can go to where we previousley was, but we cannot go into the future as the future is already planned, so we cannot change the future, only live what we are going to do. Also according to Einstein, we are living something that has happened already, so we are seconds behind the future, which has been planned out, so we can see the real unmapped future ahead of us, we just cant reach it to change it.

How does your argument prove anything?

- The concept of A planet of Giant talking monkeys name Chad is not logically impossible.

- If A planet of Giant talking monkeys name Chad exists, then it HAS TO exist, and it is impossible for A planet of Giant talking monkeys name Chad to not exist.

- If A planet of Giant talking monkeys name Chad does not exist, then it is impossible for A planet of Giant talking monkeys name Chad to exist.

- The idea of A planet of Giant talking monkeys name Chad is not impossible, so the last post is refuted. Therefore, A planet of Giant talking monkeys name Chad exists.


Apparently I just proved there's a world of giant talking monkeys who are all named Chad.

So how is the idea of a god not impossible?

The "setup" he used to prove this is flawed.

Me falling asleep right now is not logically possible.

If I fell asleep, I would have to be asleep, and it would not be impossible for me to be asleep.

If I am not falling asleep, then it is impossible for me to fall asleep.

Me falling asleep is not impossible, so the last point is refuted. Therefore, me falling asleep is possible.



But. I'm not falling asleep.

GTFO WITH YOUR MADE UP THEORIES.

Religion and faith are not just based on stories. They are based on "religious experience". In other words, people hear something, and they have a religious experience by having a feeling of burning or excitement or some physiological response that confirms the story to them as being true. Without that religious experience, a story is just a story.

That's why the Flying Spaghetti Monster isn't catching on. It's a story without any sort of accompanying religious experience.

That physiological response is real. It can be measured by scientific instruments when it occurs. And as I said before, if you look at it from a purely scientific perspective, that physiological response is a part of our species, and has been retained through evolution. Logic would suggest that it confers a selective advantage. Since the primary way that it was manifested itself historically has been through embracing religion or mysticism, I think there is a strong logical argument that religion is beneficial to people.

There is also a strong economic argument, based on Game Theory. The general idea behind Game Theory is that between two choices, "rational" people will always choose the one most likely to benefit themselves at the expense of others. It's often represented as a 2x2 matrix.

3/3 5/0
0/5 1/1

The first number is the benefit person A gets by making choices, and the second number is the benefit person B gets.

If both make choice 1, then they both get 3 units. If A chooses 1 and B chooses 2, then A gets 5 and B gets 0. If both choose 2, then they both get 1.

Now Game Theory would predict that both people should always choose 2. But if you look at it from a group perspective, that would be the worst outcome of all. The only reason a "rational person" would choose 1 is if there's some other game being played. Religion could be this other game.

For instance, if your religious beliefs promise you eternal life and happiness for making choice 1, then you would be more prone to do it, even if choice 1 isn't the best for you individually. If you were in a religious community where everyone was making choice 1, then the group as a whole would benefit much more than a group of "rational actors" making the rational, selfish choice #2.

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Originally Posted by Timer

here, If god doesn't exist, where the hell did all of this start from, is not like, -POOF-, oh shit! Matter randomly created it self! ~~ OUT OF NOTHING.

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Where did the "God" came from? Created itself?! Right... That makes even less sense, doesn't it? ;)

I am an atheist, and PROUD of it!

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Originally Posted by Widget

1). This apple is not necessary

The world doesn't care if it exists or not

2). This apple is as so defined either exists or does not exist.

It can't half-exist

3). If this apple exists, he necessarily exists.

If this apple exists, it has to exist.

4). If this apple does not exist, he necessarily does not exist.

If this apple does not exist, it cannot exist.

5). The idea of apples are not self-contradictory.

Apples can make perfectly logical sense.

6). This apple exists.

Since it is not impossible for this apple to exist, and since if this apple does not exist, it won't exist, this apple exists.


But wait!
I have no apple. There must be something wrong here then.


Mind expanding step/point 6?

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That makes absolutely no sense. You said that since you don't have an apple, they don't exist. I don't have a telephone right now, does that mean they don't exist?

Anyways, this whole thread doesn't make sence either...

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- If God does not exist, then it is impossible for God to exist.

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Esteban was saying that since it's possible that God can exist, he must. I was saying that even though it's possible for me to have an apple, I still don't have an apple. Just because God could exist doesn't mean he has to (assuming he/it could in the first place)

personaly mate id just say go kill your self,and if he is real why has he not answered my calls on a saterday night for lotto?

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Originally Posted by Widget

Esteban was saying that since it's possible that God can exist, he must. I was saying that even though it's possible for me to have an apple, I still don't have an apple. Just because God could exist doesn't mean he has to (assuming he/it could in the first place)

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Oh, I get what you're trying to say, I just really don't understand how all the 'if he exists he must exist' stuff. Doesn't make much logical sense to me.

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Originally Posted by tarajunky

In other words, people hear something, and they have a religious experience by having a feeling of burning or excitement or some physiological response that confirms the story to them as being true.

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So you are saying that people feeling left out and wanting to fit in is religious experience. That's all that it is. The only reason the religion exists is because people want to feel like they are part of something. They want friends and to be included in something.

How many people do you know who have "faith" as you call it that are not part of a big group. I know that I hate being around people because they are always so needy. So many people in the world have to be included in everything.

It's like the annoying kid a school who is an attention bitch. They do anything to get people to like them. They even convince themselves that what they are doing is their normal personality and not some stupid plan to fit in.

I believe in a higher power but I don't flock together with others to decide what should be right. I decide for myself. I don't let anybody tell me what is right for me. People that are members on organized religions let their religious "leader" tell them what is right thus taking the spiritual out of religion and replacing it with "I want to be a part of the group so people don't make fun of me."

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Originally Posted by Aser

So you are saying that people feeling left out and wanting to fit in is religious experience. That's all that it is. The only reason the religion exists is because people want to feel like they are part of something. They want friends and to be included in something.

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No, I believe that faith and religious experiences are intensely personal. Any faith built on being part of a group will be temporary and evaporate as soon as the group is no longer there. It's like some people that are raised in a very religious family, but never get a personal testimony of their own. As soon as they move away from their family, they lose that faith because it was never theirs to begin with.

However, the personal faith that an individual develops through their own personal pursuit of truth, and through their own personal religious experiences can abide with them for a lifetime, regardless of whether they are part of a group or not.

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Originally Posted by Vytaliti

LAWL FKN OWND UR A>S

ps: lawl trying 2 use theory of relativaty to prove/disprove the existance of god.... ironically enough its what i did on my sat's....(well i realizes it was lame and changed it at last min)

i dunno how you people live ur lives but lets face some facts:
higher beings were "created" to fill in the blank.
example:
3251613456134 AD
Tom: oh its raining! but...why or how?
Jane: well tom, i just happend to kill my goat at the time it started to rain...maybe theirs a rain god.!!!!!! (hintity hint hint) and maybe i have to kill somthing to make it rain....

A bunch of years later:
Thomas: hey precipitation is occuring...
Janine: indeed, you are very observant thomas. this means condensation will occur, and i dont even have to kill you for it! isnt science great tom?!
Thomas: you know janine...i think i liked it better with that raspberry syrup on you from the goat prop....mmm *for 'GOD' knows what reason wearing a metal cup* (DING!)

LAWLAW#LAWLALWLALWLAW i hope u enjoyed that cuz i did... anyway im not saying i dont belive in god...im saying that evrything that has a begingin has an end. which means when this (fill in the blank) religion fails, another will takes its place.

i may not bvelive in one god but i do belive in higher power...just not one of em...cuz that just doesnt work...

AD:for more funny aspects on life... request...otherwise i wont bother cuz im happy already.

EDIT: 2x2 matrix would 1/1 ne 3/3 ???? no?

EDIT: ok final though here...IT WAS A HORRIBLE IDEA TO POST THIS TOPIC...NO YOUR NOT CONVERTING ANYONE...IF YOU WANA BE A MISSIONARY GO DOOR TO DOOR WITH A PAMPHLET. THIS TOPIC CAN EASILY BE DISCUSSED/ARGUES DEBATED INDEFINATLY...SO HOPEFULLY THIS IS IT... IVE SEEN THIS MANY TIMES AND GOSH DOES IT FAIL ....SO WOULD SOME ON LOCK DAT SH.T UP. ...OR SOMTHING?

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LAWLAWLALWLALWLALWLAWLALW# I did not understand one word you just said!

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Originally Posted by Vytaliti

LAWL FKN OWND UR A>S

ps: lawl trying 2 use theory of relativaty to prove/disprove the existance of god.... ironically enough its what i did on my sat's....(well i realizes it was lame and changed it at last min)

i dunno how you people live ur lives but lets face some facts:
higher beings were "created" to fill in the blank.
example:
3251613456134 AD
Tom: oh its raining! but...why or how?
Jane: well tom, i just happend to kill my goat at the time it started to rain...maybe theirs a rain god.!!!!!! (hintity hint hint) and maybe i have to kill somthing to make it rain....

A bunch of years later:
Thomas: hey precipitation is occuring...
Janine: indeed, you are very observant thomas. this means condensation will occur, and i dont even have to kill you for it! isnt science great tom?!
Thomas: you know janine...i think i liked it better with that raspberry syrup on you from the goat prop....mmm *for 'GOD' knows what reason wearing a metal cup* (DING!)

LAWLAW#LAWLALWLALWLAW i hope u enjoyed that cuz i did... anyway im not saying i dont belive in god...im saying that evrything that has a begingin has an end. which means when this (fill in the blank) religion fails, another will takes its place.

i may not bvelive in one god but i do belive in higher power...just not one of em...cuz that just doesnt work...

AD:for more funny aspects on life... request...otherwise i wont bother cuz im happy already.

EDIT: 2x2 matrix would 1/1 ne 3/3 ???? no?

EDIT: ok final though here...IT WAS A HORRIBLE IDEA TO POST THIS TOPIC...NO YOUR NOT CONVERTING ANYONE...IF YOU WANA BE A MISSIONARY GO DOOR TO DOOR WITH A PAMPHLET. THIS TOPIC CAN EASILY BE DISCUSSED/ARGUES DEBATED INDEFINATLY...SO HOPEFULLY THIS IS IT... IVE SEEN THIS MANY TIMES AND GOSH DOES IT FAIL ....SO WOULD SOME ON LOCK DAT SH.T UP. ...OR SOMTHING?

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Are you drunk and/or high?

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Originally Posted by Vytaliti

3251613456134 AD

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Do you even come close to thinking before you express your ideas? Even thought I disagree with tara's ideas I can respect him (her? sorry don't know) because at least the post contributes to the topic.
All you did was waste my time trying to decipher the point you were trying to get across. Epic Phail on that one by the way. Would it be possible for people to give posts even a couple of seconds of thought before posting.

@tara I agree that some people have their own religious experiences that aren't 'just to be part of the cool club', but many, I would guess around 75%, of people that are part of organized religion just follow along because they are told to. They see somebody hanging on every word that is said by a leader and they decide that if someone else does it then it is okay for them to do it also.

Science is just now delving into what they think the mind can do. Strange occurrences, etc. Some stories that I'd like to point out: The Stars My Destination, where there is a method of travel called "Jaunting"; the books from the Ringworld series, where one of the characters is extremely lucky (where the book assumes that luck is the ability of the mind to influence events); and a short story that I've forgotten the name of. In this story, a space-faring race far in the future has catalogued every known species in existence. A "librarian" of the catalogue comes upon the entry for Homo sapiens, reads the file, and notices a big-bright-red sticker reading "dangerous" or the like. Apparently, through testing, it was discerned that things happened "differently" for humans, as they were put through a series of tests in which the only chance to survive was to do the impossible, which the subjects did. Anyhow, the librarian clones himself a human for observation, human takes over the ship w/ equipment to make more clones, etc, end. (The clones are immortal, though)

Are you posting on the right thread? I was totally lost to the point you were trying to make. Was it that humans are unpredictable?

Just taking a guess, but I think he's trying to say that the human brain is so complex that it couldn't have been created through evolution and/or only God would be able to create/understand it.

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Originally Posted by Vytaliti

so sad not all enjoy my - lol...i was trying 2 type "wiered" but i sreiously just hit "qu" going for "e"...omg my stomach is hurting from laughter... - as i was saying sad not everyone enjoys my humor but thats ok....and yes Aser i do think before i say, but i dont always show it...
and to clear things up, i was saying that

• people make up religions for things they cant explain (yet)
• where one religion fails, another rises
• you shouldnt use theory of relativity in religious arguments because (GOD/Science)*Humanity + Mass reproduction = floss - mint
• if you didnt get what i said dont worry about it, hopefully someone did
• janine is better with raspberry syrup (lawl)

so yeah...look who cares if god exists....will it really change life that much? example:

im about to get shot in the head-
no god:fk im dead...
with god:fk im dead...oh yeah, ..and i hope i go to heaven...

ok im drawing a blank nevertheless, the above should suffice...

EDIT: for the sake of argument, the way i prove a higher power (not "god" perse) exists to myself is i think of how its possible for all the cells in my body, which keep in mind are individual "creatures," can think as one, not function as one, think as one...when i think, its as if im an individual cell, and since i also belive that all things do evrything on purpose and for their own benefiet, (but thats another story) then how can many cells think as one and ...fk it just got too complex....

the point is...i can think as 1 even though im many, somthing one might call a "soul"...i mean its not like all the cells in my body VOTE to do somthing...its a monarchy.. (which is my thoughts) and my subjects (my cells)???? make sence no i didnt thinkso and yes i didnt bother to punctuate or yeah done...yup

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We are trying to discuss something here, but while you can't pull your brains together go have a discussion with yourself somewhere else...

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fk it just got too complex....

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http://omglol.kerrolisaa.com/1/10608.gif


http://www.spellchecker.net/spellcheck/

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Originally Posted by Yakman

wherever you go in the world, regardless of religion or faith, people are generally nice to each other, they dont lie, they dont steal or cheat and they pay their taxes.
if someone doesnt do these things, normally the rest of his community look down on him somehow.

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Since you obviously didnt take the time to thoroughly read my post and understand what I was trying to say, let me quote myself here.

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Originally Posted by gerauchert;

All I am saying is that without faith our world would be worse off (as in we never had it to begin with).

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Of course people generally decent to each other and hold to certain morals in this world. You dont think that the values religions taught (dont kill, dont steal, dont rape) were passed on through generations until it became so common that mostly everyone (including atheists) hold those values today?

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Originally Posted by Yakman

it seems to me like your saying "It doesnt matter if faith is wrong, people should believe in it anyway, since it makes us good"

as for morals and values,
they cant come from religion, since many religions teach so many bad, immoral things. to take the christian example, you only need to read leviticus or deuternonomy to see what im talking about.

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Im saying that faith gives people hope during tough times, faith alone doesnt make someone "good", however faith does influence someone to "want" to be "good".

I agree with you 100% that religion has taught some bad things. Religion as I stated in my previous post has caused so much death and destruction in the world that we would be better off with out it.

However faith and spirituality themselves have caused little to no harm to anyone (it is the mob mentality of religion that has). If you choose to believe that this "faith" is false, then that is your choice. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that.

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Originally Posted by Yakman

if you want to take a evolutionary point of view. piece is better then war because piece provides a stable and secure society where bringing up children is easier and safer.
to risk stating the obvious, in war it is hard to reproduce and have your children survive to reproductive age.

the reason people are nice is because in societies where humans evolved, almost everyone was related to each other, so when you were nice to someone, you were being nice to part of yourself (your genes)

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I agree with the peace vs war aspect. The "nice" gene theory that you are throwing out there seems a little shakey though.

No, I'm trying to say that sometimes things do, infact, seem to "just happen". There are many experiences where people claim something extraordinary happened, where it can either be attributed to God or to something else.

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Originally Posted by Vytaliti

For without imperfection there wouldn't be a perfection.

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When is anybody going to listen to me? Again...think before expressing ideas. Without imperfection there would only be perfection. Think about it. If there was nothing that was imperfect...everything would have to be perfect.

I think that the education system today should teach less dependence. Some day society will fall and all the people who are so attached to it will fall as well.

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Originally Posted by R0b0t1

No, I'm trying to say that sometimes things do, infact, seem to "just happen". There are many experiences where people claim something extraordinary happened, where it can either be attributed to God or to something else.

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Things sometimes do just happen, and they seem to be unexplainable to science. This doesn't make a God exist it just says that science is not advanced enough to explain it yet. Like when people used to think that stars were holes in a blanket covering the sky. If a person still believed that they would be called a fag and probably shunned for life. Basically my point is that religion blinds us. It has this handy little tool called faith that successfully blocks out 95% of reason and fact.

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Originally Posted by Aser

When is anybody going to listen to me? Again...think before expressing ideas. Without imperfection there would only be perfection. Think about it. If there was nothing that was imperfect...everything would have to be perfect.

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How would you appreciate it for perfect if you didnt know what imperfect was? Nothing would be perfect, nothing would be imperfect, everything would be neutral.

Yes, but just because everything is perfect doesn't mean that it isn't perfect. Otherwise you are defying the idea of everything being perfect. I understand the essence of the idea, but the way it is delivered is flawed.

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Originally Posted by Widget

Just taking a guess, but I think he's trying to say that the human brain is so complex that it couldn't have been created through evolution and/or only God would be able to create/understand it.

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Once again...through millions of years of trials and evolution, it was bound to happen.

I am 15 years old and I am amazed by this subject.

-There are thousands of religions in the world, even if one is correct its about a 0.1% chance that the Christians god is the acctual one.

-People say 'Christians have evidence'. This is the bible. To me, the bible is BALLSHIT(not offence). Any dude on crack could have come up with some random shit like that.

-Even if Jesus DID exist 2000 years ago, he was killed. Maybe god decided the humans he created had become to evil and so he left to go and help another world, and that is why we have wars/starvation/poverty.

-I think we would know if we have a god, there would be world peace, no starvation, sharing and plenty of food to go around.

-Before the big bang, there was nothingness, before you were born, you were nothingness, after we die, we will be nothing. We do not have souls, there is no proof for us having a spiritual existence therefore we will not get reincarnated as we will be dead.

-Why have so many countries and human beings turned to religion? becuase they are WEAK humans and cannot come up with any other reason for us being alive. Once an idea takes hold, it is hard to get rid of. With humans getting more and more intelligent it seems that more and more people are driving more towards the idea of science, the logical idea, the idea that explains more than any of the other ideas.

I hope you enjoy reading my views, anyone else think this is true??

thanks,

-PK;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkhQLt1vbWU&fmt=18

Pretty much sums it up.

I dont mean this as disrespect, but I am just curious because I have a different view point, so I have to ask this to the Atheists in this thread.

What do you think your purpose in life is? What allows you to keep going in this world if you believe that once you are dead, you are dead, and that in a few hundred years no one would even know you existed.

Once again, I am not trying to be rude, I am just curious.

gerauchert: Once you're dead, your heart stops, your brain stops, etc. etc. No one will care except family. Nothing keeps us going, we all can die at anytime.

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Originally Posted by gerauchert

I dont mean this as disrespect, but I am just curious because I have a different view point, so I have to ask this to the Atheists in this thread.

What do you think your purpose in life is? What allows you to keep going in this world if you believe that once you are dead, you are dead, and that in a few hundred years no one would even know you existed.

Once again, I am not trying to be rude, I am just curious.

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I don't really think I have a "purpose". I will just make the best of my life, and hope it turns out good. Nothing but the love of life keeps me going. But in an evolutionary view, the reason we keep going is because the genes of only creatures that want to live were passed on to offspring, and the genes of the ones who didn't want to live were not, as they.. didn't live. (Not looking to start a creation vs. evolution debate here; I was just throwing that out there)

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Originally Posted by gerauchert

I dont mean this as disrespect, but I am just curious because I have a different view point, so I have to ask this to the Atheists in this thread.

What do you think your purpose in life is? What allows you to keep going in this world if you believe that once you are dead, you are dead, and that in a few hundred years no one would even know you existed.

Once again, I am not trying to be rude, I am just curious.

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Just because you don't believe in God doesn't automatically mean you don't believe in an afterlife.

I would assume that people who don't believe in an afterlife live to enjoy living and to make sure that they can have as much fun in life as they can. Also the probably live give their future generations a better life.

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Originally Posted by gerauchert

I dont mean this as disrespect, but I am just curious because I have a different view point, so I have to ask this to the Atheists in this thread.

What do you think your purpose in life is? What allows you to keep going in this world if you believe that once you are dead, you are dead, and that in a few hundred years no one would even know you existed.

Once again, I am not trying to be rude, I am just curious.

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I love these debates about God. They are very covering from both sides, and very entertaining. I am an atheist myself, and I would like to answer my religious counterpart's questions.

What do you think your purpose in life is?:I do not have a specific purpose. My goal is to get an education, get a job, find somebody to love, start a family and live till I die.
The purpose of a purpose is purposeless (Ok, I admit I didn't think about that one. But it sounded smart).

What allows you to keep going in this world if you believe that once you are dead, you are dead, and that in a few hundred years no one would even know you existed:Every human makes a difference. Some of us may not have much magnitude, but some people play a major part. Osama bin Laden (Never said they were all good parts in the play), George Bush, Bill Gates, Elvis Presley and so on and so forth. I live my life, because I may be able to have importance. I live to gain glory, to help others achieve it and to help my surroundings and especially myself. Ruthlessly honest.

There you go, Gerauchert! :D
-Knives

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-Even if Jesus DID exist 2000 years ago, he was killed. Maybe god decided the humans he created had become to evil and so he left to go and help another world, and that is why we have wars/starvation/poverty.

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I've yet to see evidence that Jesus didn't ever exist, and/or was never crucified. Of course, if you have some, I'd be interested in seeing it.

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Originally Posted by Aser

Do you even come close to thinking before you express your ideas? Even thought I disagree with tara's ideas I can respect him (her? sorry don't know) because at least the post contributes to the topic.
All you did was waste my time trying to decipher the point you were trying to get across. Epic Phail on that one by the way. Would it be possible for people to give posts even a couple of seconds of thought before posting.

@tara I agree that some people have their own religious experiences that aren't 'just to be part of the cool club', but many, I would guess around 75%, of people that are part of organized religion just follow along because they are told to. They see somebody hanging on every word that is said by a leader and they decide that if someone else does it then it is okay for them to do it also.

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Correct on the response to Tarajunky. Everyone does it because their family did it, or they see other people doing it. The reason that religion was created, I believe, was to show people answers to a question, not neccessairily (can't spell right now ahckk) to be taken seriously. I think that if Jesus existed, the stories of biblical proportions were meant to portray a fable in a way we cannot understand. Christianity could be an Aesop taken much too seriously.

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Originally Posted by R0b0t1

Science is just now delving into what they think the mind can do. Strange occurrences, etc. Some stories that I'd like to point out: The Stars My Destination, where there is a method of travel called "Jaunting"; the books from the Ringworld series, where one of the characters is extremely lucky (where the book assumes that luck is the ability of the mind to influence events); and a short story that I've forgotten the name of. In this story, a space-faring race far in the future has catalogued every known species in existence. A "librarian" of the catalogue comes upon the entry for Homo sapiens, reads the file, and notices a big-bright-red sticker reading "dangerous" or the like. Apparently, through testing, it was discerned that things happened "differently" for humans, as they were put through a series of tests in which the only chance to survive was to do the impossible, which the subjects did. Anyhow, the librarian clones himself a human for observation, human takes over the ship w/ equipment to make more clones, etc, end. (The clones are immortal, though)

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I think he is saying here that humans are a species that only a being of biblical proportions (sorry about using this phrase way too much, I was watching the History Channel :S) could create us. However, why wouldn't we think the same thing about a spider, or even the smallest single cell organisms? We are not perfect. We just seem perfect. We have many defects such as emotions, which for example ants or other insects don't have. We are dynamic, yes, but doesn't mean a creator had to make that.

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Originally Posted by Widget

Just taking a guess, but I think he's trying to say that the human brain is so complex that it couldn't have been created through evolution and/or only God would be able to create/understand it.

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Exactly what I think. Think about my points everyone. Merry christmas (happy holidays) btw.

Cut em2 it

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I think that the education system today should teach less dependence. Some day society will fall and all the people who are so attached to it will fall as well.

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You and I will be long dead before this happens. The precise reason that society won't fall is because too many are attached to it, until this number gets exponentially smaller than the uncivilized people, which we know won't happen in our lifetime, that it is possible for anarchy, or tribalism to make a comeback. This age would be a huge dropout in technology, people are too busy putting food in their bellies, there is no time for advancement, (soz for going off topic, but I had to to prove my point).

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Originally Posted by Cut em2 it

You and I will be long dead before this happens. The precise reason that society won't fall is because too many are attached to it, until this number gets exponentially smaller than the uncivilized people, which we know won't happen in our lifetime, that it is possible for anarchy, or tribalism to make a comeback. This age would be a huge dropout in technology, people are too busy putting food in their bellies, there is no time for advancement, (soz for going off topic, but I had to to prove my point).

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Just because people are attached to something doesn't mean that it will survive. Lots of things that people have been attached to have fallen: any of the empires throughout time, the prohibition (okay only bitches were attached to that), slavery, $0.50 a gallon gasoline, legalized drugs... I'm not saying that society will fall in my lifetime or soon, but it will fall eventually. All good things must come to an end (the good is how most people consider it, personally I think society sucks). When it falls I seriously doubt that it will be because people don't like it anymore. It will be because the current system that runs society is a failure and will bring about its own collapse.
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There is no logical way to prove the existence of an omnipotent being. If there was then everyone would be following the same God/gods/thing. Because there is so much dispute over a higher power I believe that there either is no higher power OR people are way off on what they conceive is a higher power/God. Maybe we need to rethink what it really is that everybody is arguing about. My theory is that people are shooting in the exact opposite direction when thinking of the 'all powerful'.

I think (on risk of getting flammed...*cringe*...) instead of asking a God to help us out in life so much, we need to become our own Gods. What really can we not accomplish if we work together.

Recall the story of the Tower of Babel. God, in his infinite wisdom, screwed us all over because we were becoming to great. Maybe, if there is a God, he saw that humans had just a little too much potential and he wanted to remain a few steps ahead of the game.

I just ask that you think about it for a minimum of two seconds before making a case against it. I realize that a few...a lot of people won't agree with this but I just ask that you think about it before discarding it as a worthless idea.

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Originally Posted by benjaa

...Scientific evidence says otherwise



that isn't proof, thats like saying;

"Im tired, so i MUST be tired"

@ contradictions :- the bible defies the laws of physics, when Moses split the sea
that is a contradiction to reality, in a way

also, the legends of god and religion are, in the least, outdated.
they were written in times when people still thought the world was flat, which has since been proved wrong too


I myself still ponder on existence of religion, i LIKE to think that a god exists, but its so illogical. it seems that santa and god are in the same boat

merry xmas

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Please, do your research. Science in no way contradicts the trachings of Jesus Christ himself. And to the Bible comment. The Bible is not meant to be taken only as literally, but as figuratively as well, as we ask ourselves: How does this relate to our lives? Moses "defying physics" is only trying to convey a point, and is illustrating how God has revealed himself throughout salvation history.

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Originally Posted by Torrent of Flame

Faith gives people hope. Without Faith people would be nowhere?

And as for God? Fuck dat, its not logical that theres a guy running about on clouds to be honest.

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You know nothing about Him. You have just bought into what you have seen and know absoultely nothing about Him. How dare you.

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Originally Posted by PlAnT

You know nothing about Him. You have just bought into what you have seen and know absoultely nothing about Him. How dare you.

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You no absolutely nothing. You have just bought into what the church has told you, and no absolutely nothing. How dare you.