Jagenomics

Hello everyone, you probably heard and saw it with your own eyes that the runescape economy hard fails. I found this interested article on zybez forum

http://forums.zybez.net/index.php?showtopic=1312024

I loved this part and i would just share it with you guys:

Well I cant help notice the failure in jagex's logic.
They removed the wilderness in 2007, due to autoers ruining the economy.

I dont think autoers ruined anything, they actually helped it, if you noticed the increase in rune essence lately you will know what i am talking about.

So with old wilderness/trade limits/staking , lets see the pros and cons.
Pros

* Good loot
* Stable economy
* Took actual work for money

Cons

* a few bots making level 50's picking flax unable to make money.

Lets look at the new system
Pros

* 3m loot every 2 hours doing nothing at 110+ Combat

Cons

* Horrible economy
* No work for money
* Horrible loot on no ep regardless of what they lose
* Example


Ways to fix this

* Old wilderness
* Not a stupid pvp system


Discuss

He really speaks the truth. The grand exchange is really frustrating.

Jagex wont admit they're wrong.

people need to quit whining and ask for changes, not for them to undo. Why do you think they added bh worlds AND pvp? They wanted to keep BH because it was a "good idea".

Solve this like they used to in the old days!
There is power in numbers and Jagex gets their money from the PLAYERS!
So what is it? Boycott!

Just stop playing until they admit they were wrong.
Liberalism always creates the exact opposite of it's stated intent.

You honestly think a games economics that are as complex and complicated as Runescapes can be figured out by some random poster on zybez? Not only that but being some of the illegitimate players you helped fuel the change to post-GE.

I will even pick apart this post.

Quote:

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So with old wilderness/trade limits/staking , lets see the pros and cons.
Pros

* Good loot
* Stable economy
* Took actual work for money

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Good loot? Only sometimes. Most people protected still. Fought a rune pure? Ololol he'll just protect his whip. Oh wow look I got rune legs a neiz helmet and some rune boots. Stable Economy? Well depending on what you mean by stable than "sure". And it has never taken work in RS2 to make money.

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Cons

* a few bots making level 50's picking flax unable to make money.

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haha funny. A few bots. I have no idea if you even played RS three years ago but I remember when lobsters, shark, coal, iron, flax and yew were virtually worthless. People who macro are a scourge against everything good towards a good working economy. If you disagree, than look at it this way. A person running 20 bots will never, NEVER value anything the same if he played legitimately on one character.

Quote:

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Lets look at the new system
Pros

* 3m loot every 2 hours doing nothing at 110+ Combat

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76king has already been "fixed" afaik.

Quote:

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Cons

* Horrible economy
* No work for money
* Horrible loot on no ep regardless of what they lose
* Example

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Sure, maybe the economy is worse in some parts where it wasn't before, but it is better in others. How someone can put a straight-cut value on these is up for debate. Jagex recently modified PVP so I will leave any comments aside for the loot argument.

Quote:

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Ways to fix this

* Old wilderness
* Not a stupid pvp system

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We will never come back to the old wilderness, NEVER. Jagex was threatened with legal action from credit companies because gold sellers were stealing credit card information to pay for their companies gold farming.

[QUOTE=Capricorn;651099]You honestly think a games economics that are as complex and complicated as Runescapes can be figured out by some random poster on zybez? Not only that but being some of the illegitimate players you helped fuel the change to post-GE.

I will even pick apart this post.


Good loot? Only sometimes. Most people protected still. Fought a rune pure? Ololol he'll just protect his whip. Oh wow look I got rune legs a neiz helmet and some rune boots. Stable Economy? Well depending on what you mean by stable than "sure". And it has never taken work in RS2 to make money.


Uuhm that's a pretty reasonable drop. like 170-180k in one drop. That's my opinion. And yes most places were overcrowding that's true, but they have the option to ban hard against those players.

And about the credit card thing, there are other solutions like: For example when you use your credit card on the Jagex website to upgrade an account to members you should be forced to create a pin for that card number. So if the person used a RWT service to buy gold and the rwters stole the cc number, they wouldnt be able to use the cc because of the jagex specific pin number assigned to that card.

See that simple.

No, the items that dropped in price were not reasonable price drops. And your solution solves nothing, it just means they steal another credit card number.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Capricorn

You honestly think a games economics that are as complex and complicated as Runescapes can be figured out by some random poster on zybez? Not only that but being some of the illegitimate players you helped fuel the change to post-GE.

I will even pick apart this post.


Good loot? Only sometimes. Most people protected still. Fought a rune pure? Ololol he'll just protect his whip. Oh wow look I got rune legs a neiz helmet and some rune boots. Stable Economy? Well depending on what you mean by stable than "sure". And it has never taken work in RS2 to make money.


haha funny. A few bots. I have no idea if you even played RS three years ago but I remember when lobsters, shark, coal, iron, flax and yew were virtually worthless. People who macro are a scourge against everything good towards a good working economy. If you disagree, than look at it this way. A person running 20 bots will never, NEVER value anything the same if he played legitimately on one character.

76king has already been "fixed" afaik.


Sure, maybe the economy is worse in some parts where it wasn't before, but it is better in others. How someone can put a straight-cut value on these is up for debate. Jagex recently modified PVP so I will leave any comments aside for the loot argument.


We will never come back to the old wilderness, NEVER. Jagex was threatened with legal action from credit companies because gold sellers were stealing credit card information to pay for their companies gold farming.

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Your statements may be true, however Jagex still has there faults. When they removed the wilderness they did not tell there players whats going on in detail. After the removal of the wilderness, a couple of there Jagex mods said Runescape is moving away from PVP. Then the implementation of the Grand Exchange and them capping prices. Trade limit etc etc etc... They could of done a much better job. They didnt and they lost around 80k players. Alot of people still have a negative side against Jagex. They have finnaly tried to make things better. They redid bounty hunter twice, and redid pvp worlds twice. Still Rs was better in 07. The majority of Rs are just pre mature players.

You remember when lobsters, shark, coal, iron, flax and yew were worth less. What? Sharks were 1k back then, lobsters were 250-300 each, coal was 250-300, flax 90-100gp, yews were at a steady price to keep yew long bows in check. Now Sharks are 1.6k each, lobsters nearly 400, yew logs really high up in price to make the yew long bow worthless. You can barely buy anything from the g.e. We also have awesome merchenting clan, who raise up everyday prices.

What do you prefer:

Bots keeping every item in check for its price.
OR
Merchenting clans raising different items, to prices they were never before and make it hard on players to buy things when they need to.

Your pick. Honestly things were much better and funner. I liked how you had to interact with other players to gain items, instead of the G.e.

Another thing they screwed up is the event items. They should have just handed out the same items every year, allowed them all to be tradable, then they wouldn't be worth much and everyone would be happy.
(I'm still pissed off at losing my santa hat + halloween mask set years ago).

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Originally Posted by code841

Another thing they screwed up is the event items. They should have just handed out the same items every year, allowed them all to be tradable, then they wouldn't be worth much and everyone would be happy.
(I'm still pissed off at losing my santa hat + halloween mask set years ago).

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I just merched my red h'ween mask ^^ see my thread above:rolleyes:
& i do like my rubber chicken, rubber chickens are getting a little more rare.
Sorry for being of the subject.

Discuss

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kingarabian

You remember when lobsters, shark, coal, iron, flax and yew were worth less. What? Sharks were 1k back then, lobsters were 250-300 each, coal was 250-300, flax 90-100gp, yews were at a steady price to keep yew long bows in check. Now Sharks are 1.6k each, lobsters nearly 400, yew logs really high up in price to make the yew long bow worthless. You can barely buy anything from the g.e. We also have awesome merchenting clan, who raise up everyday prices.

What do you prefer:

Bots keeping every item in check for its price.
OR
Merchenting clans raising different items, to prices they were never before and make it hard on players to buy things when they need to.

---

The problem is bots do not keep items in check. They flood the market with items. And pleeeease, don't even bring up merchant clans. You think people didn't buy out items before? You really cannot compare prices from now to what they were 3 years ago. To much has changed and their values cannot even be close to compared now. But the item I do remember was rune essence. I remember when it crashed it was virtually worthless, you couldn't even sell it. It got so bad Jagex even introduced pure essence.

I don't think you have any idea how bad it was at one point. I remember people planned on running 20 bots 24/7 picking flax so they could pump out 240$ a day. This amount of botting was not sustainable and it was all in the name of one thing - money. Be it real or RS. But sure, go ahead thinking we can go back to free trade.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Capricorn

The problem is bots do not keep items in check. They flood the market with items. And pleeeease, don't even bring up merchant clans. You think people didn't buy out items before? You really cannot compare prices from now to what they were 3 years ago. To much has changed and their values cannot even be close to compared now. But the item I do remember was rune essence. I remember when it crashed it was virtually worthless, you couldn't even sell it. It got so bad Jagex even introduced pure essence.

I don't think you have any idea how bad it was at one point. I remember people planned on running 20 bots 24/7 picking flax so they could pump out 240$ a day. This amount of botting was not sustainable and it was all in the name of one thing - money. Be it real or RS. But sure, go ahead thinking we can go back to free trade.

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Sorry for replying late. But here we go.

Back then before the G.E came... no one ever mentioned people buying out items. Its virtually impossible. Your gonna have to go to each world and buy the items you want. To buy out an item you need a grand exchange or a huge group of players going around worlds buying items out. But it never happened. Ive been playing since 04, and never heard of people buying out items. Plus everyone has there own price for that item.

The bots did keep items in check. Despite how many auto fishers there were, lobsters did not go below 250 gp, or over 300gp each. Same with Sharks, Strength Potions, Yews especially and flax. Yews were around 300 each and made the yew longbow have a value so people alched it. Same with alot of prices.

As for essence read here: http://www.moparisthebest.com/index.php/2006/04/

Your last paragraph is just proof that Jagex can not tackle Autoers, and had to remove the best two things of the game to do some damage. Its there game, there choice. Eventually alot of players will really get bored and quit, and the amount of players playing will be so low Jagex will revert some updates. Mark my words.

TBH, The economy was best when there was nothing but a free market system. With this, back in 06 and later, the players ran the economy because when someone would charge too high of a price, ppl would laugh and just not buy unless they were desperate (which does happen by the way). Some ppl don't care about how much they pay for the most part. This and bots helped keep things in check. Now Fagex runs the show and behold, garbage... The GE was interesting, but honestly them being in control of the prices was a big no-no. they should have implemented the GE with the player-set prices of coal 200-250ea, lobs 250-300ea, sharks 1k ea, just to name a few.

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Originally Posted by Ranger135xp

TBH, The economy was best when there was nothing but a free market system. With this, back in 06 and later, the players ran the economy because when someone would charge too high of a price, ppl would laugh and just not buy unless they were desperate (which does happen by the way). Some ppl don't care about how much they pay for the most part. This and bots helped keep things in check. Now Fagex runs the show and behold, garbage... The GE was interesting, but honestly them being in control of the prices was a big no-no. they should have implemented the GE with the player-set prices of coal 200-250ea, lobs 250-300ea, sharks 1k ea, just to name a few.

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Thank you.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kingarabian

Sorry for replying late. But here we go.

Back then before the G.E came... no one ever mentioned people buying out items. Its virtually impossible. Your gonna have to go to each world and buy the items you want. To buy out an item you need a grand exchange or a huge group of players going around worlds buying items out. But it never happened. Ive been playing since 04, and never heard of people buying out items. Plus everyone has there own price for that item.

The bots did keep items in check. Despite how many auto fishers there were, lobsters did not go below 250 gp, or over 300gp each. Same with Sharks, Strength Potions, Yews especially and flax. Yews were around 300 each and made the yew longbow have a value so people alched it. Same with alot of prices.

As for essence read here: http://www.moparisthebest.com/index.php/2006/04/

Your last paragraph is just proof that Jagex can not tackle Autoers, and had to remove the best two things of the game to do some damage. Its there game, there choice. Eventually alot of players will really get bored and quit, and the amount of players playing will be so low Jagex will revert some updates. Mark my words.

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I am not quite sure you played RS back than, but there wasn't even much point in botting. When someone who almost bots exclusively on RS does not want to bot, I think that spells out a problem.

Look, you can continue to believe what you want but I do not want to go back. Runescape is the most popular free MMO and thus have a large real world trading following and coupled with free trade, this spells out trouble.

The only reason why yew logs stayed stable in price is because you can alch and fletch them faster than you can cut. Everything with "infinite" resources crashed in prices (look at Rune Essence, and yes fish did crash and so did flax). I like how half the items you mention are either hard to get or are used in a large amount. You cannot make a bunch of strength potions. For F2P you have to get limpwurt roots and red spider eggs, for P2P limpwurt roots were always 500-2k each (depending on what mm/yy) and there was never a point to make normal strength potions.

And you do not think people bought out items before? You've obviously never merchanted back then. I can remember quite fondly of some things being bought out. However, I am skeptical to believe any item can be literally bought out. I think thats impossible.

I think most people who remember what Aryan did and later its successors did do not want to go back to that time. It wasn't fun for anyone. You think RSBot is leeched? Hah. The fact that you even agree with me on the fact that the botting was unsustainable but yet disagree that we can go back to free trade is laughable.

uh...wildy was taken away cause of rwt(real world training).
people payed cash irl to kill some guy in the wildy carying so much cash.
thats why they took the wildy away, cause they didn't want people making cash off of their game.
Besides...I don't think that posting this here of all places is going to change Jagex's mind :p

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Capricorn

I am not quite sure you played RS back than, but there wasn't even much point in botting. When someone who almost bots exclusively on RS does not want to bot, I think that spells out a problem.

Look, you can continue to believe what you want but I do not want to go back. Runescape is the most popular free MMO and thus have a large real world trading following and coupled with free trade, this spells out trouble.

The only reason why yew logs stayed stable in price is because you can alch and fletch them faster than you can cut. Everything with "infinite" resources crashed in prices (look at Rune Essence, and yes fish did crash and so did flax). I like how half the items you mention are either hard to get or are used in a large amount. You cannot make a bunch of strength potions. For F2P you have to get limpwurt roots and red spider eggs, for P2P limpwurt roots were always 500-2k each (depending on what mm/yy) and there was never a point to make normal strength potions.

And you do not think people bought out items before? You've obviously never merchanted back then. I can remember quite fondly of some things being bought out. However, I am skeptical to believe any item can be literally bought out. I think thats impossible.

I think most people who remember what Aryan did and later its successors did do not want to go back to that time. It wasn't fun for anyone. You think RSBot is leeched? Hah. The fact that you even agree with me on the fact that the botting was unsustainable but yet disagree that we can go back to free trade is laughable.

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Im talking Post Aryan. Jagex's main problem after Aryan was RsDemon. All those Farmers, Goldsellers, used RsDemon.

NAME me the items that were "bought" out.

Tell me WHAT items crashed and which didnt. (other then the rune ess)

You can believe what you want to. But your on a cheating forum, WE ALL want what was taken from us, and so do atleast 80% of the people playing runescape. Simple as that.

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Originally Posted by kingarabian

Im talking Post Aryan. Jagex's main problem after Aryan was RsDemon. All those Farmers, Goldsellers, used RsDemon.

NAME me the items that were "bought" out.

Tell me WHAT items crashed and which didnt. (other then the rune ess)

You can believe what you want to. But your on a cheating forum, WE ALL want what was taken from us, and so do atleast 80% of the people playing runescape. Simple as that.

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Yes, exactly. "bought out". No item can ever be bought out even with the help of GE. Uhhh, the only thing that jagex took from us is free trade? Sure it was nice having it, but I never actually took advantage from it unless you counted running 20 bots to trade items over ...

And basically every pseudo rare to rare item was bought out lots. Before every holiday all the big merchants would buy out all the holiday items to make some big money. Resource stuff cannot really be bought out because they are so easy to get.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Capricorn

Yes, exactly. "bought out". No item can ever be bought out even with the help of GE. Uhhh, the only thing that jagex took from us is free trade? Sure it was nice having it, but I never actually took advantage from it unless you counted running 20 bots to trade items over ...

And basically every pseudo rare to rare item was bought out lots. Before every holiday all the big merchants would buy out all the holiday items to make some big money. Resource stuff cannot really be bought out because they are so easy to get.

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Jagex took 5 things away from us actually.

1. Free for all pking, were you would simply get the full drop at any certain time without the need for Ep.

2. Trading. Isnt Runescape a MMORPG? This game is meant for you to have multiple accounts. Well I miss trading shit from your main to your pure or skiller. I miss trading with other players and putting my own price on certain items that I like.

3. Dropping. I miss dropping items in my house to throw a party with a group of friends. I miss drop trading with my other accounts for the fun of it.

4. Staking. Seriously this had more thrill then pking.

5. Jagex made it really hard to merchant as one person. You need a big clan to do so.

Alright so rare items. Well im pretty sure at least 70% of the people playing rs dont have enough money for a phat or a mask or a santa at the time being. Im talking about regular items.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Capricorn

You honestly think a games economics that are as complex and complicated as Runescapes can be figured out by some random poster on zybez? Not only that but being some of the illegitimate players you helped fuel the change to post-GE.

I will even pick apart this post.


Good loot? Only sometimes. Most people protected still.

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Wrong.
When i played, the wildy was safer free.

We still have a great amount of work to do in social development, including resolving one of the biggest challenges we face in this area, namely, reducing the gap between high-income earners and people, citizens of our country, who are still living on very modest means indeed. But we cannot, of course, adopt the solution used 100 years ago and simply confiscate the riches of some to redistribute among others. We will use completely different means to resolve this problem, namely, we will ensure good economic growth.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nancy08

We still have a great amount of work to do in social development, including resolving one of the biggest challenges we face in this area, namely, reducing the gap between high-income earners and people, citizens of our country, who are still living on very modest means indeed. But we cannot, of course, adopt the solution used 100 years ago and simply confiscate the riches of some to redistribute among others. We will use completely different means to resolve this problem, namely, we will ensure good economic growth.

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R...unescape? Not current real world economics?

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We still have a great amount of work to do in social development, including resolving one of the biggest challenges we face in this area, namely, reducing the gap between high-income earners and people, citizens of our country, who are still living on very modest means indeed. But we cannot, of course, adopt the solution used 80 years ago and simply confiscate the riches of some to redistribute among others. We will use completely different means to resolve this problem, namely, we will ensure good economic growth.
Vladimir Putin

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taken from here

capricorn you do really like the fact that jagex removed anything that actually made the game fun to play?

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Originally Posted by kingarabian

Jagex took 5 things away from us actually.

1. Free for all pking, were you would simply get the full drop at any certain time without the need for Ep.

2. Trading. Isnt Runescape a MMORPG? This game is meant for you to have multiple accounts. Well I miss trading shit from your main to your pure or skiller. I miss trading with other players and putting my own price on certain items that I like.

3. Dropping. I miss dropping items in my house to throw a party with a group of friends. I miss drop trading with my other accounts for the fun of it.

4. Staking. Seriously this had more thrill then pking.

5. Jagex made it really hard to merchant as one person. You need a big clan to do so.

Alright so rare items. Well im pretty sure at least 70% of the people playing rs dont have enough money for a phat or a mask or a santa at the time being. Im talking about regular items.

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2) So if I make a game, and make 1000 accounts, and since there are 1000 accounts it can be a MMO? I don't think thats the point of a MMO

3) There is still the party room

4) cannot deny this, staking is the only thing I miss.

5) I am solo merchanting right now? Making around 1M a day. (5% of my money)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Capricorn

2) So if I make a game, and make 1000 accounts, and since there are 1000 accounts it can be a MMO? I don't think thats the point of a MMO

3) There is still the party room

4) cannot deny this, staking is the only thing I miss.

5) I am solo merchanting right now? Making around 1M a day. (5% of my money)

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1. I guess you could not say anything about free for all pking.

2. What? Party room? The party room is limited on 2 worlds! EVERYBODY is there. Ontop of that the fricking bankers start screaming if you put 1m. Seriously fuck the party room, it wont ever make up for anything.

3. Thank you-staking.

4. Im talking about going to different worlds, buying items from people for less, then quickly hopping to world 1 and sell items your high price. Merchanting before is way better then the Grand Exchange. You have to wait 4 hours to buy 10-100 of an item. Then wait another 4 hours to have some sell.

5.

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So if I make a game, and make 1000 accounts, and since there are 1000 accounts it can be a MMO? I don't think thats the point of a MMO

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I dont know where you are going there. However there was a beauty in Runescape that no other game had. It let you create how much accounts you want for free. You could go on those accounts if you got bored from the other. Now its pointless to have numerous accounts, since you have to work hard for money, especially in ftp.

But we can and should agree, that Jagex really did take alot and gave back less.