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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/ml_arabs_sexual_harassment :duh:
Quote:
"The religious leaders are always blaming the women, making them live in a constant state of fear because out there, someone is following them,"
This thread is about militant Islam, so here ya go.Quote:
As many as 90 percent of Yemeni women say they have been harassed, while in Egypt, out of a sample of 1,000, 83 percent reported being verbally or physically abused.
Those are people. Can you tell me there aren't any Christians who does that sort of stuff? Would you blame the religion for that? You can't blame a religion for something a person has done and you have no right to say anything bad about a religion or anything for that matter unless you know everything there is to know about it. Yakman seeing internet sites and having ideas about a religion isn't very smart. I suggest if you are that bent on insulting Islam, get hold of a Quran ( I am sure you can find one with English meaning) and read everything before posting links to more sites. I know you wouldn't do that but I just think its wrong to insult a religion based purely on internet websites or rumors from prejudiced people.Quote:
Originally Posted by josh81193
Edit: O and josh81193. That link you posted. See what the girls are wearing? Thats why Islam tells woman to cover up their body.
Also, you have to take into consideration religious 'standing.' Male & female persons that claim to follow a religion, devoutly follow a religion, or follow a religion in an extremist manner. There are more types, but that is just an example.
+1 check your sources.. and as hard as it may be, people, don't be stupid...
Yep I completely agree :)Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymity
Also don't see peoples action and say O he is a Muslim, thats why he is doing this. Some people claim to be doing something in the name of Allah and Islam but all they do is break the laws laid out by the Quran. For example, the Taliban is a group of terrorist. You can't see them and tell its Islams fault. For example all the suicide bombing they do. In the Quran its strictly written that Anyone who commits suicide will go to hell even if they were a saint. Life is given to you by God to safeguard and cherish, not to destroy...
Even in Saudi many laws are created by the king thats not in Quran. So don't look at something or someone and make assumptions about the whole religion.
And Yakman the main point of this thread...Trust me its not only Muslims that chant 'Death to America' Look at what Bush did in the middle East. Weapons of mass destruction my @ss. Saw what Tony Blair revealed recently? That war killed thousands of people from both sides. A huge waste of life all because of a few people. But people even now supports Bush and says that the war did some good. That right their gives enough reason for people to hate America.
Close this discussion now as its not going anywhere... And lay off other peoples religion. If you don't believe in religion thats your thing. Let people follow and believe whatever they want to believe...
Peace :cartman:
^ Whats your username here when your not protecting your identity for no apparent reason?
Because, from what I can see, thems posts to be proud of.
I hope you know what militant means, and considering those Arab states are mostly Muslim, that's why I posted it here. And if you read more, there is something about a girl that has tried covering herself up, but still doesn't help. Why don't men have to cover themselves up? The rest of the world is understanding that men and women are equal, the middle-east needs to catch on sooner or later.Quote:
Originally Posted by FEAR
I hope you were being sarcastic/trying to prove your point with using wikipedia as a source. Kinda funny actually.Quote:
Originally Posted by SRL_Sensei
Wishing to impose your way of life and morals on someone else? Isn't... isn't that what your mad at them for doing?Quote:
The rest of the world is understanding that men and women are equal, the middle-east needs to catch on sooner or later.
Yeah, because the widely known cornerstone aspects of something are certainly something that need a serious, academic citation! I will accept nothing below a peer-reviewed, double-blind study!Quote:
I hope you were being sarcastic/trying to prove your point with using wikipedia as a source. Kinda funny actually.
Did you read his post? I was trying to explain that this thread was about militant Islam and how my post was related to militant Islam. He used wikipedia for a quote after he stated to Yakman that his sources were biased and not reliable. You can't tell me wikipedia's answers can't be changed to be biased the TOTALLY unreliable..Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruroken
Yakman didn't claim to have proven anything; he simply did some research and posted the results in an attempt to strengthen his argument. Kingarabian, on the other hand, posted a link to an obviously more biased site containing interpretations of pieces of translated text that are thousands of years old and claimed that it was absolute proof that his religion is true.Quote:
Originally Posted by SRL_Sensei
kingarabian has summed his case up, now its my turn.
The debate started off with flat-out denial and no-true scotsman logical fallacies, then it moved onto preaching by the other side. After that came a sidetrack in the debate which confused the truth of Islam with the morality of Islam, with lots of preaching and creationism in the process. An interesting point was the 'miracles' in the Quran made by far-fetched interpretations. kingarabian ignored most of my points, especially the creationism one which I was quite keen on. After this came more far-fetched interpretations and preaching, finally kingarabian gave up and left.
Its sad that the debate got sidetracked, I should have spotted that earlier and I regret that. We ended up talking about whether Islam is true or not, which was not my intention.
I think I've done a good job trying to convince the impartial observer that Islam has much element of falsehood in it and that the Quran is not from God, even though that's not what I had in mind when I started this debate.
Well, obviously you've done your research and know what you're talking about. </sarc>Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruroken
How do you know that "nobody takes that stuff seriously". I really don't get how you can believe that when in this very thread, kingarabian has said he believes the Quran to be 100% and believes in creationism because the Quran said so.
I hope you don't take offence, but I suspect you've reached that conclusion by living in Canada and mixing with people there. Since nobody there takes the "that shit seriously", you extrapolate and think that nobody in the entire world takes that shit seriously.
Its a baseless assertion, with no evidence.
On the other hand, I did get sidetracked into talking about the Quran and the Bible and their alleged miracles.
You're wrong to say that nobody's beliefs are ever changed from this forum. I know of at least two people who've admitted to me their religious beliefs have changed. My owns beliefs have changed too, I used to believe in the economic model of communism. Due to much discussion on this forum with people like JAD and tarajunky, I slowly realised.
Its always worth going back to first principles. Its always worth debating about how do you know what you think you know. How do you know except that you've always been taught at school and never heard anything else?
What would you do if you sat next to a member of a flat earth society? What about the theory of evolution, I know its supposed to be true but here's someone who says its wrong and its all intelligent design. How sure are you of your own beliefs?
I hope you don't get offended, but to me this seems like wishy-washy babble.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruroken
Religion can be used to justify anti-women sexism, homophobia and anti-Semitism. You might claim (without evidence I might add) that every single one of these doctrines have been added afterwards by people with agendas, but it doesn't make a difference because people still follow it. As a moral person, I feel it is my duty to stand up for women, gays and other "undesirables".
"Do unto others and you would have done unto you" may be one of the doctrines preached by all religions, but its contradicted by other things.
Also, you might be interested to know that religion doesn't have a monopoly on such teachings. Secular moral philosophy was first recorded in ancient Greece, 500 years before the birth of Christ.
Again, a baseless assertion, with no evidence.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruroken
How do you know its 99% ? It could be 98% or 100% for all you know, or any number at all.
My thread was meant to be about state-sponsored bigotry before it got sidetracked. Its not just one or two people, but entire countries and governments.
You're right, there are Christians who harass women. However countries and governments with a Christian tradition have made and enforced laws to protect women for the last 100 years.Quote:
Originally Posted by FEAR
josh's article didn't just pick out one of two Muslims. It did a study involving a large sample and found statistical evidence that this isn't just one or two people.
I admit the article confused correlation and causation. The study doesn't mean the blame goes solely on Islam, it could be because of other reasons too.
I'm sorry but I think this is a stupid idea, here's why.Quote:
Originally Posted by FEAR
I have a lot of bad things to say about fascism and nazism, and I'm sure everyone else also here does. Does that mean I need to absorb myself in nazi literature for weeks before I can make a judgement? No of course not.
I say bad things about nazism and I feel I have the right to, but I havent' even read Mein Kampf.
You can disbelieve the existence of fairies without spending weeks in the library reading up on fairy literature.
If you actually read the article instead of just looking at the pictures (I grew out of picture books when I was 9) you would have seen stuff like this.Quote:
Originally Posted by FEAR
Quote:
Amal Madbouli, who wears the conservative face veil or niqab, told The Associated Press that despite her dress, she is harassed and described how a man came after her in the streets of her neighborhood.
Quote:
'I have put on the niqab. By God, what more can I do so they leave me alone,'
My bold.Quote:
In Saudi Arabia, another country where women cover themselves completely and are nearly totally segregated from men in public life, women report harassment as well
It doesn't matter what these women wear, according to josh's article, they will still get harassed.
This is exactly what you'd expect if my view that Muslim dress degrades and objectifies women. It is exactly the opposite of what you'd expect if the view that, "This is to keep our women safe and secure", was true.
No problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by SRL_Sensei
I was talking about how left-wing liberal feminists often reframed from criticising Islam, possibly because they felt like they were being racist (even though Islam is not a race)
The reason I said its changing is because their I think many feminists have woken up to the dangers of militant Islam and have started criticising it. Their attitude has changed only in the past couple of months.
I hope that clears it up for you. :)
I should tell you I'm not impressed by your new account who's only two posts are in this thread. What exactly are you trying to hide?
You must understand why I feel uneasy. Sometimes in these internet debates it can happen that somebody creates many accounts and uses them all to shout-down his opponent, making it appear that many people disagree with him when in reality it's only one person.
Woah what kind of logic is this?Quote:
Originally Posted by SRL_Sensei
Muslims and non-muslims also have access to books and newspapers. With your logic, I cant get any facts from those either.
The internet, like any other media can be corrupted. Its down to the individual to use his or her critical thinking skills to judge which sources are reliable.
To take an extreme example, here is a link to facts on the internet.
Interesting how you warn me about bias, and yet point me towards a bias source.Quote:
Originally Posted by SRL_Sensei
Why don't I also ask a Christian scholar what he thinks of Islam, and a Jewish scholar, and a non-religious scholar.
For all you know, I've already done these things. I haven't asked anyone personally, I've read books written by them which is almost as good IMO, especially since some of the authors are dead.
On weighing up the different arguments, for now I've decided that Islam fundamentally preaches bigotry and I made this thread to argue my case and see if it was robust.
I haven't made a serious post in this section for months.
Ofc those were baseless assertions, and ofc that was wishy washy babble.