Scar is NOT the problem!

SCAR is NOT the Problem!

Sure, we all agree SCAR has its flaws. Nonetheless, SRL has thrived with SCAR throughout the years. Why the rocky relationship all of a sudden? SRL has many problems to deal with, and Simba is not the answer to the most pressing ones. Scar will get better, it always has. The real problem is keeping up with Jagex. Color is ancient. I mean, it was good a couple years ago, but now, it's nearly impossible to keep up. The SRL Community as a whole is most likely the smartest of the botting scene. Why not make use of that? Why do we instead live in the past for a 'challenge' (which appears to be your main argument for color)? If you want a 'challenge', why don't you try perfecting SRL with color? Oh right, you can't, because jagex is too far ahead of us right now. So now, instead of sitting in the corner with 'advanced' color, which isn't getting the job done, we need to move on. Did we not create SRL with the goal of creating a successful autoing community? Why are we still in the stone age when everyone else has long since passed that?

This begins with fixing reflection. We began to actually become relevant during the time of the unsupported reflection. Our mistake was shunning it and basically leaving its whole fate in the hands of one man. And enough with all of the "Some people are working on reflection" and "We're going to support it now". It doesn't mean virtually anything until it is in SRL. We're not losing any of the 'challenge' since huge Reflection projects are just as hard as small color projects.

Has anyone noticed that RSBot solves EVERY random with ease? Why cant we use our resources (One of the smartest communities in the botting scenes) and get past color, its old. Plain and simple, it's NOT cutting it anymore. Its just not. Several people from SRL are moving to RSBot, Heck, Why not? Ok they lack a community, so what. Their scripts work with ease and creating something like an AIO skiller is no more complicated than creating a single, one dimensional script in color(which still only runs for a few hours before failing either by a random or by the script it self).Why aren't the leaders doing anything? SRL-Leaders, if you would only see the light and support reflection, everyone else would do the same. You have the power.

Fixing reflection and getting rid of color (Color could be kept for few things it is good at) would fix this problem completely.

Who's down to kick some jagex ass!?

Tl;dr: SRL has many imperfections. Fix it. If we can't fix it, make it easier to fix. To make it easier to fix, use Reflection. We're not losing any of the 'challenge' since huge Reflection projects are just as hard as small color projects. There is no more downside to reflection, if we worked like the smart community that we are, we could build an updater to update the hooks just hours after an update.

I agree that reflection is awesome, and if it is revived, who says you can't still use pure color or color as a backup? I think that the community would be a little more active if it was fixed, but that's just my 2 cents. ^.^

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Originally Posted by Lancelot074

I agree that reflection is awesome, and if it is revived, who says you can't still use pure color or color as a backup? I think that the community would be a little more active if it was fixed, but that's just my 2 cents. ^.^

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I agree, except Colors useless, its too hard to keep updated and strong, and besides what could go wrong with reflection that color could fix?
If we devoted all our time to reflection, the possibilities are endless

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Originally Posted by Camaro'

SCAR is NOT the Problem!

Sure, we all agree SCAR has its flaws. Nonetheless, SRL has thrived with SCAR throughout the years. Why the rocky relationship all of a sudden? SRL has many problems to deal with, and Simba is not the answer to the most pressing ones. Scar will get better, it always has.

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No, SCAR is not the problem... it never has been the problem. Rather the problem is a minor annoying error or two which requires SCAR to be restarted and can become annoying when you're sugar high or overly excited or just doing a large amount of redundant work. It's not an all the sudden rocky relationship, people have been nagging for the SCAR source since before reflection or freddy even had it.. this is nothing new nor revelation completely separate from reflection and even simba.

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Originally Posted by Camaro'

The real problem is keeping up with Jagex. Color is ancient. I mean, it was good a couple years ago, but now, it's nearly impossible to keep up. The SRL Community as a whole is most likely the smartest of the botting scene. Why not make use of that? Why do we instead live in the past for a 'challenge' (which appears to be your main argument for color)? If you want a 'challenge', why don't you try perfecting SRL with color? Oh right, you can't, because jagex is too far ahead of us right now. So now, instead of sitting in the corner with 'advanced' color, which isn't getting the job done, we need to move on. Did we not create SRL with the goal of creating a successful autoing community? Why are we still in the stone age when everyone else has long since passed that?

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Yes the real problem is keeping up with Jagex, but it's not just a problem exclusive to SRL... it's a widespread problem that affects reflection just as much as color and even effects ingame players, merchants, the black market, and rs economy. Surely you understand that no one is here because 'interwebz is serious business' the purpose of SRL or of any forum is to have fun coding, to learn, and make friends. Not many people are "sitting in the corner" with reflection, it's just there is too few of people and lack of motivation for it to be fixed with SRL... people are trying to fix it but it just isn't happening... and everytime it breaks you're in the same boat... you just spent a week+ on a script to have it nerfed in a hour because there isn't a reliable reflection team around. Color is hardly the stone age at all, if you get good enough at it pretty much anything is possible... I have an abyssal space crafter with which walking has never failed, hell I have more trouble with the small things like unequiping Glories and using a good average wait time which is a logic problem.. not really something reflection can wave a wand at.

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Originally Posted by Camaro'

This begins with fixing reflection. We began to actually become relevant during the time of the unsupported reflection. Our mistake was shunning it and basically leaving its whole fate in the hands of one man. And enough with all of the "Some people are working on reflection" and "We're going to support it now". It doesn't mean virtually anything until it is in SRL. We're not losing any of the 'challenge' since huge Reflection projects are just as hard as small color projects.

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Reflection hasn't been shunned by anyone since it was first introduced by a person named solarwind, it was widely embraced after SMART supported it. Again, not many people are capable of even fixing reflection because it requires extensive java knowledge, something there is little to none easy tutorials to learn from for this specific purpose.. and it's very time consuming at that... a lot of us don't have the time to pick up java soley to single handedly fix reflection. To hell with putting reflection in the actual SRL include... there is already an entire replicate SRL with useless functions like R_BankScreen which can be done with a simple GetPixel... Huge reflection projects are no where near as hard a color projects. I could gather all the data for all the rune atlars put them in a variant array and have like 6 functions to make an every runecrafter just by gathering an array of numbers... that doesn't come anywhere near using trig to navigate the abyssal space.. and I'm not really learning or challenging myself by using path finders TPA export function.

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Originally Posted by Camaro'

Has anyone noticed that RSBot solves EVERY random with ease? Why cant we use our resources (One of the smartest communities in the botting scenes) and get past color, its old. Plain and simple, it's NOT cutting it anymore. Its just not. Several people from SRL are moving to RSBot, Heck, Why not? Ok they lack a community, so what. Their scripts work with ease and creating something like an AIO skiller is no more complicated than creating a single, one dimensional script in color(which still only runs for a few hours before failing either by a random or by the script it self).Why aren't the leaders doing anything? SRL-Leaders, if you would only see the light and support reflection, everyone else would do the same. You have the power.

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Has anyone noticed that RSBot has the power of reliable reflection, and their scripts are STILL poor? How can this even be? The majority of people that script for rsbot can't even make a simple script that utilizes the power of reflection, or it's some payscript that will probably die out at some point anyways. The random solving is sad, they don't break out of infinite loops and your players sits there for hours doing nothing, detectability anyone? Smart people would rather not get their accounts banned by faulty coding. People are always moving around communities, in the past month there has been 5 new SRL members, and a few new scripts. I'm sure the number of significant people that moved to rsbot weren't really vital to this community. Why must the SRL leaders do everything, what are the people that keep making these 'Reflection threads' doing about it? All the same, they are just posting long persuasive statements in hopes that someone else will fix it, when if they truly felt this way they would learn java their own and show results on how they could manage such a proposal. No, you have the power.

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Originally Posted by Camaro'

Fixing reflection and getting rid of color (Color could be kept for few things it is good at) would fix this problem completely.

Who's down to kick some jagex ass!?

Tl;dr: SRL has many imperfections. Fix it. If we can't fix it, make it easier to fix. To make it easier to fix, use Reflection. We're not losing any of the 'challenge' since huge Reflection projects are just as hard as small color projects. There is no more downside to reflection, if we worked like the smart community that we are, we could build an updater to update the hooks just hours after an update.

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Fixing reflection would help, yes, but getting rid of color would be like throwing away all excess food in a post apocalyptic world and wasting your valuable resources. SRL has so many imperfections because reflection was a distraction in the first place, it didn't used to be this way, and people are working hard to improve it to be better than ever before. If you want the hooks find them yourself, infact they are easy to get with RS.jar and notepad++ and if rsbot has them then everyone else will because the it's open source, the problem is knowing how to convert the raw information into usable data to interpret in SCAR which requires extensive java, math, and SCAR knowledge as well as time and will to accomplish. So it begs the question

Who is stopping you?

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Originally Posted by Camaro'

I agree, except Colors useless, its too hard to keep updated and strong, and besides what could go wrong with reflection that color could fix?
If we devoted all our time to reflection, the possibilities are endless

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:p Too hard to change a few colors? I don't think that's too hard to keep updated..

And what could go wrong with reflection? Oh.. I dunno.. Maybe something that keeps it down for months and months.. :p

I've nothing against ref/color/anything.. just saying that those aren't really valid points (that it's too hard to keep color updated, as usually it only requires a few pixel/color changes to fix).

I would of used reflection if it wasn't down for so long (It's just ridiculous that its been down this long) If someone would update it then maybe it would be good.

I agree on reflection comming back would be good, but colour HAS to stay alive. And it will.
I'm not saying that a good, big ref script is easy. I know it's not because I have experience in them but reflection is always a good backup.

I love how everyone bitches about reflection but no one cares to fix it. Just because you are uneducated doesn't give you the right to bitch about something/bitch about someone.

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Originally Posted by Blumblebee

I love how everyone bitches about reflection but no one cares to fix it. Just because you are uneducated doesn't give you the right to bitch about something/bitch about someone.

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As IceFire stated it cannot be fixed just like that. You need more then just the idea.

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Originally Posted by i luffs yeww

:p Too hard to change a few colors? I don't think that's too hard to keep updated..

And what could go wrong with reflection? Oh.. I dunno.. Maybe something that keeps it down for months and months.. :p

I've nothing against ref/color/anything.. just saying that those aren't really valid points (that it's too hard to keep color updated, as usually it only requires a few pixel/color changes to fix).

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Keeping color updated requires more than 'a pixel change'. I've never experienced it first-hand, but when something color breaks, you're going to be re-doing the whole thing. Nonetheless, this is beside Camaro's point. He's saying the Devs can't keep up with Jagex using color, which is true, there's no denying that. Just look at the state of the anti-randoms, for instance.

What could keep reflection down for months and months? Are you talking about RuneTek6? For one, game engine updates are not common, at all. Even if it was so, when SRL is down, devs usually fix it up pretty quickly, seeing as the community is absolutely dead without at least a somewhat functioning include. Therefore, if the community was centered around Reflection, it would be fixed equally as fast.

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Originally Posted by cycrosism

I would of used reflection if it wasn't down for so long (It's just ridiculous that its been down this long) If someone would update it then maybe it would be good.

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That is what I believe the one problem is... Nobody knows how. Anyone who might have had a desire to learn has left since they saw no support; let's change that.

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Originally Posted by Floor66

I agree on reflection comming back would be good, but colour HAS to stay alive. And it will.
I'm not saying that a good, big ref script is easy. I know it's not because I have experience in them but reflection is always a good backup.

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Why does color have to stay alive? What can color do that a well maintained reflection can't?

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Originally Posted by Blumblebee

I love how everyone bitches about reflection but no one cares to fix it. Just because you are uneducated doesn't give you the right to bitch about something/bitch about someone.

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Yeah, of course a 15 year old barely in high school can learn everything about Java and how to manipulate a client made by a large foreign company, then proceed to do all the work to fix it. You're not looking at the big picture. The people ranting about Reflection are asking to come together and work as one to solve it. Nobody is going to get it done alone.

@Icefire: I would quote you word for word but I need my sleep.

Re: SCAR always being a problem: Even if it is a minor nuisance, why use all of the devs' time to develop Simba instead of the dieing include that its being made for? In doing so, you're putting an exhaust pipe on an old bicycle.

Re: Reflection/BCEL communities being affected by being left behind: Give me the names of the major communities and their problems, then I'll believe you.

Re: People are trying to fix reflection: It's an overwhelming task. The 'people trying to fix it' are probably working alone and hardly have any idea what they're doing. In the end, the whole project will be thrust on them, and it'll die again. SUPPORT is needed from the rest of the community. It seems the only way to give that support is the make Reflection primary.

Re: Reflection scripts are easier than Color scripts: You're probably right on this one. However, I'd wager that about 5% of SRL scripters use those sorts of complex trigonometric techniques and whatnot. It doesn't represent the majority.

Re: Color is not the stone age: You can make anything out of the simplest materials. But the quality of your materials * the amount of work you put in = the product. Increase the quality, keep the same amount of work, and you'll make a much better product. Right now, most people here are using stone and putting so much effort in making a car. Why not pick up some of metal that's just waiting to be used?

Re: People not having the knowledge to do reflection/not having time to learn it: You learned how to use SRL. You can do the same with reflection.

Re: RSBot scripts are poor: You clearly haven't visited RSBot in the last few years or so. Theoretically, they have all the randoms solved. In reality, over 90% of them work. Divide those numbers by 3 and you get SRL. Scripts not working? Scripts there run for hours on end, with none of the endless loops you mentioned. I recently made an RSBot script within two weeks of learning about RSBot along with basic java: It was by far superior to any SRL script I've ever made. As for their members not being intelligent: that is true, in part. Now, imagine RSBot, but with the members and intelligence of the SRL community?

Re: You have the power: See response to Blumble up above

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Sure, we all agree SCAR has its flaws. Nonetheless, SRL has thrived with SCAR throughout the years. Why the rocky relationship all of a sudden? SRL has many problems to deal with, and Simba is not the answer to the most pressing ones. Scar will get better, it always has. The real problem is keeping up with Jagex.

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Agreed, SCAR is not really the problem, we just need to be patient, nothing's 100% functional all the time, and Freddy is a busy man. This isn't some SCAR Vs Simba stuff, its just an alternative option, and open source like many people want. PEOPLE create the rivalry between the two. No problem here just two programs, friendly 'competition'

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Color is ancient. I mean, it was good a couple years ago, but now, it's nearly impossible to keep up. The SRL Community as a whole is most likely the smartest of the botting scene. Why not make use of that? Why do we instead live in the past for a 'challenge' (which appears to be your main argument for color)? If you want a 'challenge', why don't you try perfecting SRL with color? Oh right, you can't, because jagex is too far ahead of us right now. So now, instead of sitting in the corner with 'advanced' color, which isn't getting the job done, we need to move on. Did we not create SRL with the goal of creating a successful autoing community? Why are we still in the stone age when everyone else has long since passed that?

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It's our choice to auto with color. Its the challenge, fun, actually having to think of fun/creative/'advanced' etc ways to script besides
Repeat
ClickID(RockID)
DropOres
Until(False)
that's no fun. We CHOOSE to use color, and script the harder way, its fun for us, we like it! Do not compare color scripting to reflection, its not a competition, its a choice. Ref is for speed/accuracy/ 'scripting fun'.
Color is for experience/challenge/programing knowledge and also 'scripting fun'

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This begins with fixing reflection. We began to actually become relevant during the time of the unsupported reflection. Our mistake was shunning it and basically leaving its whole fate in the hands of one man. And enough with all of the "Some people are working on reflection" and "We're going to support it now". It doesn't mean virtually anything until it is in SRL. We're not losing any of the 'challenge' since huge Reflection projects are just as hard as small color projects.

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Well only ONE MAN knows enough about java and the rsclinet to get it up and going it. No one wanted reflection to die it just happened. Many people tried/are trying to fix it, but its hard, as we dont have the proper knowledge to do so. When ref is/and will be alive again later, it will be developed and worked on a scripter for and la la la everything happy and great, but its dead right now, sorry. No one was anti-reflection, they just preferred to script with color, that's all. So once/if its ever fixed, you can have your happy perfect world again.

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Has anyone noticed that RSBot solves EVERY random with ease? Why cant we use our resources (One of the smartest communities in the botting scenes) and get past color, its old. Plain and simple, it's NOT cutting it anymore. Its just not. Several people from SRL are moving to RSBot, Heck, Why not? Ok they lack a community, so what. Their scripts work with ease and creating something like an AIO skiller is no more complicated than creating a single, one dimensional script in color(which still only runs for a few hours before failing either by a random or by the script it self).Why aren't the leaders doing anything? SRL-Leaders, if you would only see the light and support reflection, everyone else would do the same. You have the power.

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^Same as above. We are not reflection based and driven sorry. Rsbot/Ibot are, since you want that SOOOOO BADLY why not go there? Like you said many are leaving srl for rsbot/ibot, you can too! (We'd like you to say, or be a part of both, we love ALL MEMBERS!). But nothing/no one is stopping you from doing what you are asking us to do, learn java, learn rsbot/ibot coding, go to that community, use their scripts, make scripts, be happy! But still save some <3 for scar/simba/srl :]! You will always be welcome here too!


Yea color is 'worse, inefficient, harder, cry moan complain' but it is what SRL/SCAR/SIMBA has been/is/will be all about. Color coding is to teach you much more about programing, techniques, challenges, and its just SO MUCH MORE different than reflection scripting. You brain has to think so much differently and there is just so many more options when going about scripting with color.

I hate when people compare color to ref bots/techniques. They are TWO COMPLETELY DIFFERENT THINGS WITH TWO COMPLETELY DIFFERENT PURPOSES to me! Stop comparing! You have BOTH options so choose whichever you like more, what the heck is stopping you.
Also
Stop crying and saying that no one cares about reflection. LOTS of people do, its just broken, and we have a lack of people with enough knowledge to fix it, sorry about that, but once it's fixed it'll be back and kicking ass just like before.

If you wan SCAR relelfection fixed, wait it out, come back later when it is.
If you want efficiency, randoms solved, fast scripts, reflection stuff NOW, head over to RsBot/iBot, learn java scripting, use their scripts.

Don't bitch at the Amish people for using candles when you have a light bulb in your house!

[No hard feelings or anything at all in case this sounded harsh towards you! <3]

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Originally Posted by YoHoJo

Agreed, SCAR is not really the problem, we just need to be patient, nothing's 100% functional all the time, and Freddy is a busy man. This isn't some SCAR Vs Simba stuff, its just an alternative option, and open source like many people want. PEOPLE create the rivalry between the two. No problem here just two programs, friendly 'competition'



It's our choice to auto with color. Its the challenge, fun, actually having to think of fun/creative/'advanced' etc ways to script besides
Repeat
ClickID(RockID)
DropOres
Until(False)
that's no fun. We CHOOSE to use color, and script the harder way, its fun for us, we like it! Do not compare color scripting to reflection, its not a competition, its a choice. Ref is for speed/accuracy/ 'scripting fun'.
Color is for experience/challenge/programing knowledge and also 'scripting fun'



Well only ONE MAN knows enough about java and the rsclinet to get it up and going it. No one wanted reflection to die it just happened. Many people tried/are trying to fix it, but its hard, as we dont have the proper knowledge to do so. When ref is/and will be alive again later, it will be developed and worked on a scripter for and la la la everything happy and great, but its dead right now, sorry. No one was anti-reflection, they just preferred to script with color, that's all. So once/if its ever fixed, you can have your happy perfect world again.




^Same as above. We are not reflection based and driven sorry. Rsbot/Ibot are, since you want that SOOOOO BADLY why not go there? Like you said many are leaving srl for rsbot/ibot, you can too! (We'd like you to say, or be a part of both, we love ALL MEMBERS!). But nothing/no one is stopping you from doing what you are asking us to do, learn java, learn rsbot/ibot coding, go to that community, use their scripts, make scripts, be happy! But still save some <3 for scar/simba/srl :]! You will always be welcome here too!


Yea color is 'worse, inefficient, harder, cry moan complain' but it is what SRL/SCAR/SIMBA has been/is/will be all about. Color coding is to teach you much more about programing, techniques, challenges, and its just SO MUCH MORE different than reflection scripting. You brain has to think so much differently and there is just so many more options when going about scripting with color.

I hate when people compare color to ref bots/techniques. They are TWO COMPLETELY DIFFERENT THINGS WITH TWO COMPLETELY DIFFERENT PURPOSES to me! Stop comparing! You have BOTH options so choose whichever you like more, what the heck is stopping you.
Also
Stop crying and saying that no one cares about reflection. LOTS of people do, its just broken, and we have a lack of people with enough knowledge to fix it, sorry about that, but once it's fixed it'll be back and kicking ass just like before.

If you wan SCAR relelfection fixed, wait it out, come back later when it is.
If you want efficiency, randoms solved, fast scripts, reflection stuff NOW, head over to RsBot/iBot, learn java scripting, use their scripts.

Don't bitch at the Amish people for using candles when you have a light bulb in your house!

[No hard feelings or anything at all in case this sounded harsh towards you! <3]

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Well I guess here is the turning point. I suppose SRL is not an autoing community, but rather a programming community. I probably should have noticed this earlier instead of trying to convince myself that SRL's interests were predominantly to be better at RS, which I only realized a couple months ago and converted.

Now, I ask, since SRL is about the challenge of programming aspect, why bother with OpenGL or Reflection aspects at all?

I would reply to everything you said but I'm too lazy to read, anyways lets get started :)

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Originally Posted by Tad

What could keep reflection down for months and months? Are you talking about RuneTek6? For one, game engine updates are not common, at all. Even if it was so, when SRL is down, devs usually fix it up pretty quickly, seeing as the community is absolutely dead without at least a somewhat functioning include. Therefore, if the community was centered around Reflection, it would be fixed equally as fast.

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reflection is down for months and months because Method got tired of working to maintain his updater, and with the creation of runetek5, Method had to rewrite most of the updater to which he did not have the time nor the er [for lack of a better word] enthusiasm, or maybe drive would be a better word.

besides if we were reflection whats the difference between us and Rsbot?

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Originally Posted by Tad

Yeah, of course a 15 year old barely in high school can learn everything about Java and how to manipulate a client made by a large foreign country, then proceed to do all the work to fix it. You're not looking at the big picture. The people ranting about Reflection are asking to come together and work as one to solve it. Nobody is going to get it done alone.

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I am looking at the big picture, everyone's all in to "do something" and by do something they mean pretend to help while one or two people slave away and do everything and in the meantime attempt to make themselves look like hero's for contributing one line on the scar side of the development.

if you care to truly help method (or anyone else) fix it, go learn Java, spend the time reading the SMART source, and try to understand the hooks in RSbot and shit. 10 people with no knowledge of Java would simply hound and slow down the person who is doing all the work in the end.

sorry if I came off as rude, I don't mean to be. I just feel sympathetic for method at times due to the enormous amount of pressure people attempt to apply to him to fix reflection. And I know you'll say "well I didn't even mention Method" but lets be serious, the resurrection of reflection would only come if method played a part in it, even a small part.

TAD not exactly what I said. When ref is back we will be BOTH programing and autoing, and we DO CARE about autoing too, its just harder, but possible with color. I'll elaborate more tomorrow. Night.

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Originally Posted by Blumblebee

I would reply to everything you said but I'm too lazy to read, anyways lets get started :)



reflection is down for months and months because Method got tired of working to maintain his updater, and with the creation of runetek5, Method had to rewrite most of the updater to which he did not have the time nor the er [for lack of a better word] enthusiasm, or maybe drive would be a better word.

besides if we were reflection whats the difference between us and Rsbot?



I am looking at the big picture, everyone's all in to "do something" and by do something they mean pretend to help while one or two people slave away and do everything and in the meantime attempt to make themselves look like hero's for contributing one line on the scar side of the development.

if you care to truly help method (or anyone else) fix it, go learn Java, spend the time reading the SMART source, and try to understand the hooks in RSbot and shit. 10 people with no knowledge of Java would simply hound and slow down the person who is doing all the work in the end.

sorry if I came off as rude, I don't mean to be. I just feel sympathetic for method at times due to the enormous amount of pressure people attempt to apply to him to fix reflection. And I know you'll say "well I didn't even mention Method" but lets be serious, the resurrection of reflection would only come if method played a part in it, even a small part.

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SRL isn't made up of one person doing all the work; there's a group of devs who do it. Camaro was proposing the same, just with Reflection. As for what the difference between SRL and RSBot would be? SRL is made up of a more intelligent community, meaning SRL would be superior to RSBot; that's the difference.

But, as I said in my last post, this doesn't really matter. SRL isn't about autoing. What I don't understand is why bother with Reflection at all...

EDIT: Yohojo: I don't understand that. You're not going to auto successfully without committing to autoing. Yet, you're not going to commit to autoing without giving up the type of challenge you get with color. The way I see it, a middle path isn't worth it.

EDIT: You say 'when' ref is back as if somebody is hard at work on it and someone is planning to maintain it, yet this thread is full of how nobody wants to do either of those things. I don't see it coming back. If it does, it'll probably get washed away again unless SRL changes its philosophy (which won't happen).

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Originally Posted by Blumblebee

I would reply to everything you said but I'm too lazy to read, anyways lets get started :)



reflection is down for months and months because Method got tired of working to maintain his updater, and with the creation of runetek5, Method had to rewrite most of the updater to which he did not have the time nor the er [for lack of a better word] enthusiasm, or maybe drive would be a better word.

besides if we were reflection whats the difference between us and Rsbot?



I am looking at the big picture, everyone's all in to "do something" and by do something they mean pretend to help while one or two people slave away and do everything and in the meantime attempt to make themselves look like hero's for contributing one line on the scar side of the development.

if you care to truly help method (or anyone else) fix it, go learn Java, spend the time reading the SMART source, and try to understand the hooks in RSbot and shit. 10 people with no knowledge of Java would simply hound and slow down the person who is doing all the work in the end.

sorry if I came off as rude, I don't mean to be. I just feel sympathetic for method at times due to the enormous amount of pressure people attempt to apply to him to fix reflection. And I know you'll say "well I didn't even mention Method" but lets be serious, the resurrection of reflection would only come if method played a part in it, even a small part.

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First off, Sorry to come off rude? You told me to stop bitching>.>

Second, What makes us different from RSBot? Well, one, we are SRL, two they are RSBot.
Does that make it clearer for you? RSBot - > SRL

SRL = 100's of Genius's
RSBot = 5 genius's
Third, How do you know that only 2 people would work on reflection.

Fourth.

"Tad"

"
Well I guess here is the turning point. I suppose SRL is not an autoing community, but rather a programming community. I probably should have noticed this earlier instead of trying to convince myself that SRL's interests were predominantly to be better at RS, which I only realized a couple months ago and converted.

Now, I ask, since SRL is about the challenge of programming aspect, why bother with OpenGL or Reflection aspects at all?
"

Answer please..

If only you guys put all this energy towards something constructive, like fixing reflection

You are all assuming that everyone hates ref and doesn't care about it. We do, but we don't know didly about java/runescape client, so we can't fix it, sorry. Maybe someday eventually someone will learn and fix it. And once that does happen, we can be a strong thriving COLOR and REFLECTION community and you can all be happy.

Until then, stop complaining, and switch to RsBot/iBot. We don't care to hear about how much we such, how inefficient we are, and how much better other bots all. We know, everyone knows, and frankly NO ONE CARES.
Get to switching, and stop the bitching!

Quote:

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Well I guess here is the turning point. I suppose SRL is not an autoing community, but rather a programming community. I probably should have noticed this earlier instead of trying to convince myself that SRL's interests were predominantly to be better at RS, which I only realized a couple months ago and converted.

Now, I ask, since SRL is about the challenge of programming aspect, why bother with OpenGL or Reflection aspects at all?

---

We are both! We care about community, teaching, learning, programing. We care about reflection, efficient, being a good bot. Since reflection is broken now, and we have a lack of people to fix it, we are doing the best we can with what we have. Once reflection is fixed, you can be happy again.
SRL is a COMMUNITY no one person chooses 'what we are about' all people want different things. The once's who want color will stick with it, and code with it. The ones who want openGL/Reflection will stick with it, and code with it. The people who want ref w/ color backup and vise versa will do that. And the ones who care about autoing will choose whatever the hell works best.

Stop the bitching and get to swtiching!

I don't think that SRL should go all reflection but I do believe reflection is the best way to go. When scripting with colour, I get a challenge and in the end, I'm proud of myself with what I've done. Scripting with colour has made me a way better scripter and I can find more ways to make things fast and efficient. Most reflection is quite simple and I don't really have that much fun scripting with it but it kicks ass! Botting isn't about using scripts that were challenging to make, it's about getting levels up and making money the fastest you can without getting banned.

Some color functions can be just as accurate as reflection function. Some functions aren't that good to reflection... so how about incorporate both in scripts? SRL should still have colour in it and it always should.

Also, SCAR has been quite a problem for me... I always have to restart SCAR multiple times when I'm beginning to auto or are scripting. Something needs to be done about those errors!

I by myself am making a reflection bots that's starting to kick ass and I've worked with RSPSs for years. I have the knowledge to fix reflection. Next week, I'll have a week off of school so I will have the time to fix reflection. So, next week I'll be fixing reflection.

Reflection won't be very strong if not a lot of people have java knowledge. If only a few people know how to work with reflection, it won't go very far. We need a lot of people to learn java before SRL goes reflection. If SRL were to go reflection immediately, what if reflection broke and nobody was able to fix it? SRL could just die. SRL will be colour for a long time.

Colour scripts are pretty stable and will keep working most of the time after an update, while reflection will need to get a hook update which could take days. Although, people could easily steal hooks from RSBot...

SRL will stay colour for a long while, but, there will always be reflection close by.

Edit: I've been running Tarajunky's chicken killer for 75 hours straight and not a single random... we just need to make scripts where it switches players often and auto on a whole bunch of accounts with the one script.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Camaro'

I agree, except Colors useless, its too hard to keep updated and strong, and besides what could go wrong with reflection that color could fix?
If we devoted all our time to reflection, the possibilities are endless

---

The only reason you, or anyone else would find color to be useless is because you don't know how to use it properly. I constantly make color scripts and they all work. I made an IvyChopper a couple months back and just ran it today for 4+ hours. It's 100% color and didn't require me to update anything.

That's why reflection bugs me, it makes people stop thinking and just doing things the easy way. Don't get me wrong, I respect those who use reflection when needed, or sometimes for fun, but if you rely on Reflection to make a script work (I will remain nameless, though it's not hard to tell who you are) then I see no reason to applaud that. Anyone could do that.

• Sry. Disagree Camaro. Over the last three years I have been involved in the cheating scene colorbotting has not become more difficult. True, Jackex has somewhat dynamified its interface, but apart from that, things are pretty much the same. It's the same old static interface, the same old boring repetitive game, the same old pixelrelated game. I am convinced I could still write a 100% perfect Lumby - Falador walker based on colors... just as I did two years ago. so: Colotbotting has not become more difficult!
  
  
• On the subject of reflection: it is a league I dont play. This is where the copyright infringement pops into vision. We do not infringe any copyright (apart maybe from the chattextfont...all the rest is almost strictly legal). It is true, we are the only surviving legal cheaters!...probably in the whole world. To me, this is a very big deal. I am a MasterThieve, I have honour, I am not a raper of the game.
  
  
• So, why do other commumnities thrive, and is SRL such a marginal player? Well, the answer to that is pretty simple...it is money.There is no money in SRL, apart from the investments I have done over the last years. But if you where to calculate the countless hours others have invested into SRL, you'd be amazed how much its worth in terms of knowledge. But indeed, the lack of money in this community is what keeps us marginal. But would you really want all the trouble of money? Look what it does to all the other communities. They are either a complete scam, no matter how professional they look, I would not trust them with my creditcardnumber, or filled with badbreathed illtempered youngsters fulminating over 5$. No, I am very glad we dont do this, although it might just work here right now because we are a true community, and have been for over three years...and hopefully will stay that in the years to come.
  
  
• Which brings me to the fourth pont and the reason why I started SRL in the first place. I know we have helped 1000's of young people from all over the globe starting up programming, serving them with a broader understanding of logic and mathematics and social -albiet ASCII- interaction. I am convinced it has helped them not only becoming better at school, but also becoming a deeper person.
  
  
• Now, this may sound all trivial to you since you might be very preoccupied with gaining profit from RS, but to me this is far beyond the point. True, SRL has been in a better state, but most of us are busy with real life. Anyone questioning the legitimacy of SRL has not understood its roots.

What maybe could be questioned is the lack of organisation and leadership. Then you would be referring directly to me. Yes indeed, mea culpa, I have paused cheating 1 1/2 year, too busy irl, no time whatsoever...and I still dont really have time at all, with 60 hours of work each week. But I have found good admins, good mods and honest people by my side who have helped and enhanced SRL beyond my wildests dreams. This is what keeps the community alive, my friend.

And I will make you this promise: SRL will survive, and we will be the last man standing, as we have been the first to see the light. You'd be amazed.

I think it is ridiculous to state that SCAR is not a/the problem. I tried running a script in it last night to see if it gave the same results as Simba, and I really simply couldn't get it to run more than 5 minutes. Sure, SRL contains some poor coding; but that should never be able to crash SCAR. However, SCAR does crash. May it be from poor coding in SRL or poor coding in SCAR. I run SCAR, it immediately gives me a DIB error. Camaro, thanks for making me laugh in real life. SCAR has not become better, it's a mess. Even Freddy himself says so. Stop saying it isn't.

Reflection won't change anything. If you want to use pure Reflection, go to another community/bot. SCAR was and is not really made to use Reflection. If you want to use it properly, then seek a better program.

@TAD: I see you're dropping in again... I thought you rageleft?
Anyway, the problem is not support.

The people who want to use Reflection can't update it themselves, doesn't that tell you enough? It isn't "hard" to update. If it was, then rsbot would have trouble doing that too. Since virtually every other reflection uses some sort of java hack to cheat within cheating RuneScape, it isn't too hard to copy their code. Most of them are open, too.

The problem is not that colour simple doesn't cut it; the problem is the way it is currently being used. I took a look at SRL (with Raymond) for the first time in months, and found several bugs instantly. Colour will do fine.

EDIT:

Missed this first, so true...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by The Claw

If only you guys put all this energy towards something constructive, like fixing reflection

---

Addind on to previous points, SRL is just NOT ABLE to go fully reflection. Stop dreaming about. Why?

Very simple, most of us are NOT PROFICIENT in java. There's only a handful - if even so - who would be able to really manage reflection. And from those, none really has the time to do so.

SRL is outdated? Yes, I suspect it might be. Most devs have passed the age to really feel like cheating for RS and now we just do it either for challenge or love for the communitty since we know that the include must stay active for you guys to keep on enjoying it.

What is possible with reflection is generally harder with color. It's true. It takes more creativity, more work. But it's doable all the same;

And why Simba? We're open source. That's a big part of the philosophy behind SRL. You can learn from all the resources here. I for instance have no idea how I'd code something like Scar/Simba, but now that I have a source to look at, I could learn.

I think I should point out that Fawk's point is very obvious about what this communitty brings you, how it makes you develop.

No money is used here, your only way up the ranks is maturity, decision making skills and scripting skills.

And from scripting to programming the gap is not so huge. I used my SRL Developer status for my Uni application. It was a big factor that got me in. What you learn here you can actually end up having a job out of it.

~RM

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rasta Magician

Addind on to previous points, SRL is just NOT ABLE to go fully reflection. Stop dreaming about. Why?

Very simple, most of us are NOT PROFICIENT in java. There's only a handful - if even so - who would be able to really manage reflection. And from those, none really has the time to do so.

SRL is outdated? Yes, I suspect it might be. Most devs have passed the age to really feel like cheating for RS and now we just do it either for challenge or love for the communitty since we know that the include must stay active for you guys to keep on enjoying it.

What is possible with reflection is generally harder with color. It's true. It takes more creativity, more work. But it's doable all the same;

And why Simba? We're open source. That's a big part of the philosophy behind SRL. You can learn from all the resources here. I for instance have no idea how I'd code something like Scar/Simba, but now that I have a source to look at, I could learn.

I think I should point out that Fawk's point is very obvious about what this communitty brings you, how it makes you develop.

No money is used here, your only way up the ranks is maturity, decision making skills and scripting skills.

And from scripting to programming the gap is not so huge. I used my SRL Developer status for my Uni application. It was a big factor that got me in. What you learn here you can actually end up having a job out of it.

~RM

---

Ok, so maybe SRL couldn't go 100% Reflection seeing as what Trilez has brought up, thats okay though. Have reflection the primary of SRL.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Wizzup?

I think it is ridiculous to state that SCAR is not a/the problem. I tried running a script in it last night to see if it gave the same results as Simba, and I really simply couldn't get it to run more than 5 minutes. Sure, SRL contains some poor coding; but that should never be able to crash SCAR. However, SCAR does crash. May it be from poor coding in SRL or poor coding in SCAR. I run SCAR, it immediately gives me a DIB error. Camaro, thanks for making me laugh in real life. SCAR has not become better, it's a mess. Even Freddy himself says so. Stop saying it isn't.

Reflection won't change anything. If you want to use pure Reflection, go to another community/bot. SCAR was and is not really made to use Reflection. If you want to use it properly, then seek a better program.

@TAD: I see you're dropping in again... I thought you rageleft?
Anyway, the problem is not support.

The people who want to use Reflection can't update it themselves, doesn't that tell you enough? It isn't "hard" to update. If it was, then rsbot would have trouble doing that too. Since virtually every other reflection uses some sort of java hack to cheat within cheating RuneScape, it isn't too hard to copy their code. Most of them are open, too.

The problem is not that colour simple doesn't cut it; the problem is the way it is currently being used. I took a look at SRL (with Raymond) for the first time in months, and found several bugs instantly. Colour will do fine.

EDIT:

Missed this first, so true...

---

I never said scar wasn't a problem, its not the problem that were to be worrying about. I never said scar has become better, i was stating that freddy always gets around to fixing it. I'm glad you had a good laugh :).

Don't you see that when we had reflection with smart months ago, SRL was at a peak?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by WT-Fakawi

• Sry. Disagree Camaro. Over the last three years I have been involved in the cheating scene colorbotting has not become more difficult. True, Jackex has somewhat dynamified its interface, but apart from that, things are pretty much the same. It's the same old static interface, the same old boring repetitive game, the same old pixelrelated game. I am convinced I could still write a 100% perfect Lumby - Falador walker based on colors... just as I did two years ago. so: Colotbotting has not become more difficult!
  
  
• On the subject of reflection: it is a league I dont play. This is where the copyright infringement pops into vision. We do not infringe any copyright (apart maybe from the chattextfont...all the rest is almost strictly legal). It is true, we are the only surviving legal cheaters!...probably in the whole world. To me, this is a very big deal. I am a MasterThieve, I have honour, I am not a raper of the game.
  
  
• So, why do other commumnities thrive, and is SRL such a marginal player? Well, the answer to that is pretty simple...it is money.There is no money in SRL, apart from the investments I have done over the last years. But if you where to calculate the countless hours others have invested into SRL, you'd be amazed how much its worth in terms of knowledge. But indeed, the lack of money in this community is what keeps us marginal. But would you really want all the trouble of money? Look what it does to all the other communities. They are either a complete scam, no matter how professional they look, I would not trust them with my creditcardnumber, or filled with badbreathed illtempered youngsters fulminating over 5$. No, I am very glad we dont do this, although it might just work here right now because we are a true community, and have been for over three years...and hopefully will stay that in the years to come.
  
  
• Which brings me to the fourth pont and the reason why I started SRL in the first place. I know we have helped 1000's of young people from all over the globe starting up programming, serving them with a broader understanding of logic and mathematics and social -albiet ASCII- interaction. I am convinced it has helped them not only becoming better at school, but also becoming a deeper person.
  
  
• Now, this may sound all trivial to you since you might be very preoccupied with gaining profit from RS, but to me this is far beyond the point. True, SRL has been in a better state, but most of us are busy with real life. Anyone questioning the legitimacy of SRL has not understood its roots.

What maybe could be questioned is the lack of organisation and leadership. Then you would be referring directly to me. Yes indeed, mea culpa, I have paused cheating 1 1/2 year, too busy irl, no time whatsoever...and I still dont really have time at all, with 60 hours of work each week. But I have found good admins, good mods and honest people by my side who have helped and enhanced SRL beyond my wildests dreams. This is what keeps the community alive, my friend.

And I will make you this promise: SRL will survive, and we will be the last man standing, as we have been the first to see the light. You'd be amazed.

---

Honestly, thats well spoken wt-fawki. But I didnt knew you would give anyone over the internet your credit card number. Didn't knew you can trust someone you haven't met in real life yet with your CC #

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TRiLeZ

I don't think that SRL should go all reflection but I do believe reflection is the best way to go. When scripting with colour, I get a challenge and in the end, I'm proud of myself with what I've done. Scripting with colour has made me a way better scripter and I can find more ways to make things fast and efficient. Most reflection is quite simple and I don't really have that much fun scripting with it but it kicks ass! Botting isn't about using scripts that were challenging to make, it's about getting levels up and making money the fastest you can without getting banned.

Some color functions can be just as accurate as reflection function. Some functions aren't that good to reflection... so how about incorporate both in scripts? SRL should still have colour in it and it always should.

Also, SCAR has been quite a problem for me... I always have to restart SCAR multiple times when I'm beginning to auto or are scripting. Something needs to be done about those errors!

I by myself am making a reflection bots that's starting to kick ass and I've worked with RSPSs for years. I have the knowledge to fix reflection. Next week, I'll have a week off of school so I will have the time to fix reflection. So, next week I'll be fixing reflection.

Reflection won't be very strong if not a lot of people have java knowledge. If only a few people know how to work with reflection, it won't go very far. We need a lot of people to learn java before SRL goes reflection. If SRL were to go reflection immediately, what if reflection broke and nobody was able to fix it? SRL could just die. SRL will be colour for a long time.

Colour scripts are pretty stable and will keep working most of the time after an update, while reflection will need to get a hook update which could take days. Although, people could easily steal hooks from RSBot...

SRL will stay colour for a long while, but, there will always be reflection close by.

Edit: I've been running Tarajunky's chicken killer for 75 hours straight and not a single random... we just need to make scripts where it switches players often and auto on a whole bunch of accounts with the one script.

---

Ahh...
1. If Reflection was the primary part of SRL(and color was backup), then it would take an hour or two to update the hooks.

2. You made a good point on the what if it turns out that no one could fix reflection, that is why we should keep color, but put most of our time and effort into reflection. Ok, i may of said to 'f' color in the main post, so my opinion has changed seeing these posts.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by YoHoJo

We are both! We care about community, teaching, learning, programing. We care about reflection, efficient, being a good bot. Since reflection is broken now, and we have a lack of people to fix it, we are doing the best we can with what we have. Once reflection is fixed, you can be happy again.
SRL is a COMMUNITY no one person chooses 'what we are about' all people want different things. The once's who want color will stick with it, and code with it. The ones who want openGL/Reflection will stick with it, and code with it. The people who want ref w/ color backup and vise versa will do that. And the ones who care about autoing will choose whatever the hell works best.

Stop the bitching and get to swtiching!

---

I'm not bitching.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by YoHoJo

You are all assuming that everyone hates ref and doesn't care about it. We do, but we don't know didly about java/runescape client, so we can't fix it, sorry. Maybe someday eventually someone will learn and fix it. And once that does happen, we can be a strong thriving COLOR and REFLECTION community and you can all be happy.

Until then, stop complaining, and switch to RsBot/iBot. We don't care to hear about how much we such, how inefficient we are, and how much better other bots all. We know, everyone knows, and frankly NO ONE CARES.
Get to switching, and stop the bitching!

---

I'm not bitching.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by The Claw

If only you guys put all this energy towards something constructive, like fixing reflection

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:duh:




I would like everyone to no, that i'm not bitching, i'm stating my opinion. Whats so bad about that? People like yohojo and blumblebee if you think then i'm bitching then i'm sorry, cause I dont think i am.

K. Two small things.

• Color fails right now. Reflection is the future.
• But it is SCAR too. SCAR keeps crashing with the DIB handle error, keeps throwing off the colors and you need to close it, etc. But what you say is true, color is ancient.

Color is like hitting two rocks together to make a fire, whilst reflection is using a lighter.

Grantit, if reflection is fixed, I will still use color for fun and for the enjoyment of a challenge, but reflection needs to be fixed. We need to start using reflection. Don't be afraid of change, change is good. Without change we would still be bleeding people hoping that will heal what ever sickness they have.

I say fix reflection!

EDIT: Before responding to any of my responses to your quotes, please answer my question at the end of this post.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by YoHoJo

We are both! We care about community, teaching, learning, programing. We care about reflection, efficient, being a good bot. Since reflection is broken now, and we have a lack of people to fix it, we are doing the best we can with what we have. Once reflection is fixed, you can be happy again.
SRL is a COMMUNITY no one person chooses 'what we are about' all people want different things. The once's who want color will stick with it, and code with it. The ones who want openGL/Reflection will stick with it, and code with it. The people who want ref w/ color backup and vise versa will do that. And the ones who care about autoing will choose whatever the hell works best.

Stop the bitching and get to swtiching!

---

I already switched. Right now, I was/am trying to figure out why you guys don't want to improve (in the botting aspect), and I see why.

As for reflection being fixed, who's fixing it and who's ready to maintain it?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TRiLeZ

Some color functions can be just as accurate as reflection function. Some functions aren't that good to reflection... so how about incorporate both in scripts? SRL should still have colour in it and it always should.

Also, SCAR has been quite a problem for me... I always have to restart SCAR multiple times when I'm beginning to auto or are scripting. Something needs to be done about those errors!

Colour scripts are pretty stable and will keep working most of the time after an update, while reflection will need to get a hook update which could take days. Although, people could easily steal hooks from RSBot...

---

I don't believe there's anything reflection struggles with. All the same, yes, a little bit of color would be beneficial, but, if you want to become a superior botting community (which is not SRL's goal), you would need to have take the backseat to Reflection.

Quote:

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Edit: I've been running Tarajunky's chicken killer for 75 hours straight and not a single random... we just need to make scripts where it switches players often and auto on a whole bunch of accounts with the one script.

---

Armies are nearly pointless nowadays. If you're limited to things like chicken fighting with a bunch of level 3's, you're not bound for success.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by WT-Fakawi

[LIST][*]Sry. Disagree Camaro. Over the last three years I have been involved in the cheating scene colorbotting has not become more difficult. True, Jackex has somewhat dynamified its interface, but apart from that, things are pretty much the same. It's the same old static interface, the same old boring repetitive game, the same old pixelrelated game. I am convinced I could still write a 100% perfect Lumby - Falador walker based on colors... just as I did two years ago. so: Colotbotting has not become more difficult!

---

I think the point Camaro was trying to make is that SRL can't keep up (using color) with everything Jagex has been doing. If there was a well maintained reflection, not only could the Devs find time to make anti-randoms, but other people could contribute as well.

Quote:

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[*]On the subject of reflection: it is a league I dont play. This is where the copyright infringement pops into vision. We do not infringe any copyright (apart maybe from the chattextfont...all the rest is almost strictly legal). It is true, we are the only surviving legal cheaters!...probably in the whole world. To me, this is a very big deal. I am a MasterThieve, I have honour, I am not a raper of the game.

---

Copyright infringement? I don't know much about copyrights, but if that was true, why wouldn't Jagex get rid of most botters by just shutting down every Java bot? As for honor, I don't see the point of honor whilst cheating on an online video game, but that's a difference of opinion I suppose.

Quote:

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[*]So, why do other commumnities thrive, and is SRL such a marginal player? Well, the answer to that is pretty simple...it is money.There is no money in SRL, apart from the investments I have done over the last years. But if you where to calculate the countless hours others have invested into SRL, you'd be amazed how much its worth in terms of knowledge. But indeed, the lack of money in this community is what keeps us marginal. But would you really want all the trouble of money? Look what it does to all the other communities. They are either a complete scam, no matter how professional they look, I would not trust them with my creditcardnumber, or filled with badbreathed illtempered youngsters fulminating over 5$. No, I am very glad we dont do this, although it might just work here right now because we are a true community, and have been for over three years...and hopefully will stay that in the years to come.

---

I'm not sure what you mean by this. Do you mean not enough money has been invested in SRL? Or are you talking about the exclusion of a public black market and the like? I'm guessing the latter, which I agree is a major reason why SRL isn't a large community. But, other than that, you just don't see the same quality (by quality I mean botting quality, not scripting quality) or quantity of scripts at SRL, in addition to the flaws of the include.

Quote:

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[*]Which brings me to the fourth pont and the reason why I started SRL in the first place. I know we have helped 1000's of young people from all over the globe starting up programming, serving them with a broader understanding of logic and mathematics and social -albiet ASCII- interaction. I am convinced it has helped them not only becoming better at school, but also becoming a deeper person.

---

This is true, and this is what I didn't realize up until a few months ago. Logic, yes, though I would argue that any type of programming requires and teaches logic. Mathematics? Maybe I've been missing something, but, like I said in one of my other posts, it seems to me only about 5% of scripters actually utilize the advanced mathematics that can come with SRL. Social... Yes, that is what SRL is best at; having a good community.

Quote:

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[*]Now, this may sound all trivial to you since you might be very preoccupied with gaining profit from RS, but to me this is far beyond the point. True, SRL has been in a better state, but most of us are busy with real life. Anyone questioning the legitimacy of SRL has not understood its roots.

---

That's what Camaro was suggesting; an antidote to the lack of time that most Devs experience. But, again, that's not SRL's philosophy.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Wizzup?

I think it is ridiculous to state that SCAR is not a/the problem. I tried running a script in it last night to see if it gave the same results as Simba, and I really simply couldn't get it to run more than 5 minutes. Sure, SRL contains some poor coding; but that should never be able to crash SCAR. However, SCAR does crash. May it be from poor coding in SRL or poor coding in SCAR. I run SCAR, it immediately gives me a DIB error. Camaro, thanks for making me laugh in real life. SCAR has not become better, it's a mess. Even Freddy himself says so. Stop saying it isn't.

---

He stated it was a problem, but not the [main] problem. I see this not as an attack at Simba, but rather a proposed change in philosophy.

Quote:

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@TAD: I see you're dropping in again... I thought you rageleft?\

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Yes, I did. I don't SCAR script, vote on applications, or the like anymore.

Quote:

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Anyway, the problem is not support.

The people who want to use Reflection can't update it themselves, doesn't that tell you enough? It isn't "hard" to update. If it was, then rsbot would have trouble doing that too. Since virtually every other reflection uses some sort of java hack to cheat within cheating RuneScape, it isn't too hard to copy their code. Most of them are open, too.

---

I'm not sure what you're trying to get at here. "Doesn't that tell you enough?" - What does it tell me? It tells me nobody is motivated enough to actually update it. You're telling everyone who wants reflection to either build up and maintain it or go to another bot. Most are probably doing the latter; in effect killing any chance of bringing it back.

Quote:

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The problem is not that colour simple doesn't cut it; the problem is the way it is currently being used. I took a look at SRL (with Raymond) for the first time in months, and found several bugs instantly. Colour will do fine.

---

Again, like I said above, an antidote to, primarily the time, it takes to make something color would be reflection.

Most of my arguments above are assuming SRL wants to become a better autoing community, which is not the case, so I guess they don't apply. What I don't understand now is how you can try to do both: become great autoers yet keep the challenges of color there. I'm not satisfied with Yohojo's response. If you support reflection or OpenGL, most new scripters will take one or the other instead of color (Most of you came here with the intention of RS botting, not programming, so it's reasonable to think people would choose the more advanced techniques). Your goal is to give people the experience of coding with many challenges, correct? By supporting those things, you are, in effect, vastly decreasing the 'challenge' that you're looking are. Again, I don't see a middle route as being feasible.

Please, no flaming. I'm genuinely interested as to what the reasoning behind this is. I don't know the answer to my question, I'm looking for a logical response.

Nono Camo, it is ok. No problems here:) Respect your views and more then welcome to state them of course

Quote:

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Originally Posted by WT-Fakawi

Nono Camo, it is ok. No problems here:) Respect your views and more then welcome to state them of course

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Thanks dude :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tad

EDIT: Before responding to any of my responses to your quotes, please answer my question at the end of this post.



I already switched. Right now, I was/am trying to figure out why you guys don't want to improve (in the botting aspect), and I see why.

As for reflection being fixed, who's fixing it and who's ready to maintain it?



I don't believe there's anything reflection struggles with. All the same, yes, a little bit of color would be beneficial, but, if you want to become a superior botting community (which is not SRL's goal), you would need to have take the backseat to Reflection.



Armies are nearly pointless nowadays. If you're limited to things like chicken fighting with a bunch of level 3's, you're not bound for success.




I think the point Camaro was trying to make is that SRL can't keep up (using color) with everything Jagex has been doing. If there was a well maintained reflection, not only could the Devs find time to make anti-randoms, but other people could contribute as well.


Copyright infringement? I don't know much about copyrights, but if that was true, why wouldn't Jagex get rid of most botters by just shutting down every Java bot? As for honor, I don't see the point of honor whilst cheating on an online video game, but that's a difference of opinion I suppose.


I'm not sure what you mean by this. Do you mean not enough money has been invested in SRL? Or are you talking about the exclusion of a public black market and the like? I'm guessing the latter, which I agree is a major reason why SRL isn't a large community. But, other than that, you just don't see the same quality (by quality I mean botting quality, not scripting quality) or quantity of scripts at SRL, in addition to the flaws of the include.



This is true, and this is what I didn't realize up until a few months ago. Logic, yes, though I would argue that any type of programming requires and teaches logic. Mathematics? Maybe I've been missing something, but, like I said in one of my other posts, it seems to me only about 5% of scripters actually utilize the advanced mathematics that can come with SRL. Social... Yes, that is what SRL is best at; having a good community.


That's what Camaro was suggesting; an antidote to the lack of time that most Devs experience. But, again, that's not SRL's philosophy.



He stated it was a problem, but not the [main] problem. I see this not as an attack at Simba, but rather a proposed change in philosophy.


Yes, I did. I don't SCAR script, vote on applications, or the like anymore.



I'm not sure what you're trying to get at here. "Doesn't that tell you enough?" - What does it tell me? It tells me nobody is motivated enough to actually update it. You're telling everyone who wants reflection to either build up and maintain it or go to another bot. Most are probably doing the latter; in effect killing any chance of bringing it back.



Again, like I said above, an antidote to, primarily the time, it takes to make something color would be reflection.

Most of my arguments above are assuming SRL wants to become a better autoing community, which is not the case, so I guess they don't apply. What I don't understand now is how you can try to do both: become great autoers yet keep the challenges of color there. I'm not satisfied with Yohojo's response. If you support reflection or OpenGL, most new scripters will take one or the other instead of color (Most of you came here with the intention of RS botting, not programming, so it's reasonable to think people would choose the more advanced techniques). Your goal is to give people the experience of coding with many challenges, correct? By supporting those things, you are, in effect, vastly decreasing the 'challenge' that you're looking are. Again, I don't see a middle route as being feasible.

Please, no flaming. I'm genuinely interested as to what the reasoning behind this is. I don't know the answer to my question, I'm looking for a logical response.

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+10000

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bionicle1800

K. Two small things.

• Color fails right now. Reflection is the future.
• But it is SCAR too. SCAR keeps crashing with the DIB handle error, keeps throwing off the colors and you need to close it, etc. But what you say is true, color is ancient.

Color is like hitting two rocks together to make a fire, whilst reflection is using a lighter.

Grantit, if reflection is fixed, I will still use color for fun and for the enjoyment of a challenge, but reflection needs to be fixed. We need to start using reflection. Don't be afraid of change, change is good. Without change we would still be bleeding people hoping that will heal what ever sickness they have.

I say fix reflection!

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And using Colour right is like making a fire with a flame thrower...

[OFFTOPIC]Wtf is wrong with reflection anyway? I know it doesn't work.. but why? I was gone for awhile... PM me, kthx. [/OFFTOPIC]

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Timer

And using Colour right is like making a fire with a flame thrower...

[OFFTOPIC]Wtf is wrong with reflection anyway? I know it doesn't work.. but why? I was gone for awhile... PM me, kthx. [/OFFTOPIC]

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RuneTek 5 updated which made all of the math on reflection wrong. Getting the hooks is not a problem.

Not really, even if you made a deadly script in color, randoms suck so bad that once you would get a random it would stop the script. (+ more chance of banhammer)

Reflection you could fix all the randoms, + make the same deadly script with ease.

As we have seen from our past experiences with reflection you cannot just "maintain" reflection next to (colour) SRL. They both require full attention, and we simply don't have the man power to fill in this requirement. And as our roots lay in Colour-bots, it seems logically we would keep developing this part of RS-botting.

After all, it wouldn't make sense to make a fully reflection-driven bot in Delphi with an interpreter. That would just require a full javabot..


EDIT: And yes, atm both are broken. But for me it would just be impossible to fix reflection, as I have no clue how it works..

Let me ask you this,
Why does SRL have such good scripters?

In my opinion it's because colour scripting promotes skillful scripting where as reflection doesn't. If SRL became a reflection-based include, I strongly believe the quality of scripters would decrease, the forum would become flooded with RSBot-like leachers and the community as a whole would start to become similar to RSBot's.

I would also like to ask you,
Why would people come to SRL if it were primarily a reflection include?

I say this, because RSBot is much more established as a successful bot. It also is much easier to setup - you just download and run - and all it requires is Java being installed.

Lastly, I want to ask you,
Why should SRL switch to reflection?

As time showed, just about no one actually knows enough about it at SRL. So why should SRL give up everything and chase after a non-working system? I seriously want an answer - if reflection is so hard to learn and everything else, then why should SRL give up on something that at least works to chase after something so difficult to learn that everyone who wants reflection back couldn't learn? If you want SRL to switch, then you're just being an idiot while there is no working reflection include at all.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mixster

Let me ask you this,
Why does SRL have such good scripters?

In my opinion it's because colour scripting promotes skillful scripting where as reflection doesn't. If SRL became a reflection-based include, I strongly believe the quality of scripters would decrease, the forum would become flooded with RSBot-like leachers and the community as a whole would start to become similar to RSBot's.

I would also like to ask you,
Why would people come to SRL if it were primarily a reflection include?

I say this, because RSBot is much more established as a successful bot. It also is much easier to setup - you just download and run - and all it requires is Java being installed.

Lastly, I want to ask you,
Why should SRL switch to reflection?

As time showed, just about no one actually knows enough about it at SRL. So why should SRL give up everything and chase after a non-working system? I seriously want an answer - if reflection is so hard to learn and everything else, then why should SRL give up on something that at least works to chase after something so difficult to learn that everyone who wants reflection back couldn't learn? If you want SRL to switch, then you're just being an idiot while there is no working reflection include at all.

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People would come to SRL the same reason people come now, COLOR wont be eliminated completely.

Why would srl switch to reflection?

To advance!

I'm not saying(anymore) that srl should go 100% Reflection. It should be more primary then it was before though.

You pretty much ignored my point though - reflection has been down for how long now? In all that time, no one else has been able to learn how reflection works well enough to be able to start it up again, yet you want the entire community to take to this method, especially when there isn't even a currently working version?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mixster

You pretty much ignored my point though - reflection has been down for how long now? In all that time, no one else has been able to learn how reflection works well enough to be able to start it up again, yet you want the entire community to take to this method, especially when there isn't even a currently working version?

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Touche

I bet if we worked together, it could get done.

Then instead of telling the rest of the community to do it, get together with other people who want to and do it.

Lead by example. Iron with words.

I like your way of thinking, but I tink you might still be missing the main point.

There are very few people who are able to fix reflection right now. And out of those, no one really has the time.

Problem 1: Getting reflection fixed.

If reflection breaks again, we're fixless again. Maybe if there's an updater. But if there's an engine change again?

Problem 2: See Problem 1

Now maybe we do fix it now and do get an updater an jagex doesn't change their engine for the ext two years. After two years of SRL basing itsel on reflection, there is an engine change. Color hasn't been the main for so long that it doesn't work propery at all. We've given up on color antiramdoms a long time ago.

Problem 3: See Problem 2
Problem 4: Color SRL Failing
Problem 5: SRL = DEAD

~RM

Will people fucking stop bitching about fixing reflection? If it was easy shit for anyone to be assed to do it, it would have been done, but the problem is you can't do client-hacking shit (although we are discussing copying what RSBot does) by learning a bit there and a bit there u need to learn Step 1 to learn Step 2 etc...

Also,

Quote:

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Did we not create SRL with the goal of creating a successful autoing community?

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So are we driving on competing Java bots by using Java in-directly through plugins in PascalScript?

IDEA!

How about all you kids that struggle with color so much that you must relate to begging for a reflection fix leave and go to a different community?! Your obviously here for the wrong reasons anyways..

IMO you don't deserve to be here if your not willing to learn. You people are exactly the same as the "leechers" we try to keep out. Only with falsely rewarded scripting cups...