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I've always thought that the bots support the RS economy for the most part. My freind however thinks that bots ruin the economy. Now that i think about it, i'm not really sure on which it is =( I haven't taken econ (only a sophomore lol) so i can't really form any valid opinions, so i wanted to know what you guys thought.
Bots support the economy by generating the raw materials needed for legit player to level. IMHO
~BraK
It makes the economy healthy, makes prices stay low because you have lots of people botting to mine rune essence for example. These people generally sell these to the G.E and people buy these to make essences and level up their magic.
If no one botted then the prices for rune essence would rise a lot, because there is only legit people mining it.
It depends on what side you look at it. IF you are a legit player trying to sell your raw materials for max profit, then to them we hurt the economy. IF you are a player trying to buy raw materials to level skills, then we are helping them.
I would say overall though, bots make the RS economy more stable.
Pretty much this. If you do a raw-skill like mining or woodcutting, you're going to hurt. If you do a skill where you use the botted raw materials, you're going to win.Quote:
Originally Posted by HyperSecret
A lot of various prices would Sky rocket to retarded levels if the botting suddenly stopped. That's one of those things that most people don't look at. Unless they are trying to sell they're goods. Then that same person would turned around and complain about high prices elsewhere. They would not care where the goods came from bot or not.
It's supply and demand. As RuneScape grows larger and larger every day, there is a larger demand for goods. Both legitimate users and bots provide the goods that are in such high demand. Take out the bots, and a large amount of goods is not put into the economy. Lower supply and continually increasing demands would crash the market.
This is such a fun topic to discuss! :)
I remember when I legitimately fished like 3+k shark one time before I even started using a robot. There was this huge ban and a lot of people got removed from the game. The shark prices basically skyrocketed and I made SO MUCH money. They jumped up to 1.3k ea if I remember correctly.
I think if you're a raw-materials hoarder, you should just hoard out as much as you can until a mass ban, then reap the reward after. That's what happened to me, I went from 2.5 million in shark to around 4 million in a few days :D
Now to answer the question:
A lot of skills would be fudged up if robots were completely stopped dead in its tracks. Rune essence and pure essence would increase a lot. I think rune ess. is probably the most autoed thing next to willows/woodcutting because anyone can hop right on into getting it by completing a very short quest.
So lets assume rune essence goes way up in price. This will probably jack up nature rune prices. Natures are a massive field for selling/buying; from experience I can buy AND sell 25,000 natures at normal price instantly. Due to how busy it is, a lot of people do nature crafting because its great for money making. If the price of natures go up, less people may feel it is worth the time to make some for money. This may take out a chunk of people, and deter the ones who are in it just for the leveling. It won't stop the 91+ RC'ers, but then again-- how many people really are that high?
Natures now go up in price by a large margin (I doubt they'd jump less than 50gp), which offsets all the people training magic. All the alchers will now probably not be able to alch for profit. Since the woodcutters are banned too, fletching quickly comes to a literal halt. No one will be able to get the supplies to fletch without losing a large amount of money in the process. The best way is making bows, and all our flax/yew cutters/nat runners have vanished.
Same for smithing, what do people do with all those swords? Now that skill is a total pain in the [rear] to raise... so any additional stress will offset people from getting higher in those skills.
As you can see, almost all the production skills take it up the [rear]. Less money means less cooking (unless you fish it all, which is irritating). Less money to buy arrows with, less money to afford your guthans for AFKing at bandits, less money to buy potions that people do herblore with. Herblore is only possible to be done if people are willing to buy the final product. Imagine how painful it would be to get 70+ herb w/o being able to buy the herbs/pieces? All the people who want to do WGS will be in for some depression possibly if a mass ban happens. Of course it won't be that bad, I'm just saying if *every* bot got removed and jagex could stop all botting instantly, I think the above would happen.
Skills that would take it royally up the behind would be:
Attack
Defense
Strength
HP
Slayer especially, with those irritating hard tasks that require oodles of food
Need food for training
Cooking
Fletching
Firemaking
Smithing
Runecrafting
Prayer
Herblore
These last two would get nailed since everything is so expensive
Summoning (sort of...)
Magic
Probably a few more I missed.
as i thought. alright now i can tell him he's an idiot =P
and also cstrike wow you must have thought about this before lmao
Very Nice Description of RS Economy apocalypse.
i see no one named apocalypse in this thread o.OQuote:
Originally Posted by BraK
Bots support the P2P economy, ruin F2P economy.
In F2P legit players can't make any money, cause all the methods are ruined by bots. Bots cut all the logs, mine all the ores and pick all the feathers and sell them so cheap that the prices fall a lot. This makes moneymaking hard for legit players.
Members, however, benefit. Members need raw materials and have their own, efficient ways of making money, such as combat.
It makes leveling so easy which ruins the the point of hi-scores imo.
Meant that no bots = Economic crash again.
100% agree, but i liked it when yews were 280ea o.O as the consumer. :pQuote:
Originally Posted by marpis
It isn't about bots or no bots, it's about the cat-and-mouse game we play with Jagex. The only stuff that can cause prices to fluctuate as much as they do is:
1. Botting
2. Merching
3. Jagex Updates
So, Jagex hates 1 and 2 pretty much... So, Jagex cracks down on botting, prices go up, we develop some revolutionary technology, and prices go down. Without this factor, the market/economy would be boring IMO. Bots increase supply, legit players increase demand. Both fluctuate as botters enhance technology, or as Jagex adapts theirs. It's not just cat-and-mouse, it's a easily visible pattern in the rs economy.
Ok... so I wrote a super-long explanation of what bots do, based in economic principles (I got a 4/5 on the AP test, and I'm going to a highly selective university for it; I'd say I'm qualified), but refresherased it :duh:. Basically, this is what bots do:
1. Promote deflation
2. Cause prices (and thus incomes and expenditures) to be lower, especially for people selling highly liquid goods made from mining, woodcutting, and fishing.
However, due to Runescape's long term natural inflation (caused by it's ever-growing workforce [e.g. population]), the overall effect on prices is still positive. They would be higher, however, if bots sold at the highest possible price. This would, of course, reverse the current situation, hurting people using skills that need several complex inputs, and members.
TL;DR - bots don't hurt the Runescape "economy" too much, and they aren't bad. They just keep prices artificially very lower than they should be, but in the long run, prices still increase. If you want them to increase faster, get all bots to sell at higher prices, or take bots out of the game (would cause giant inflation in the latter part).
Note: If you want to study a similar situation IRL, look at the economic history of slavery.
In my opinion bots ruin the economy... here's my thought process behind the logic.
- Runescape™ is a game where you have a character, who has multiple skills to gain experience in, which promote either the character strength or wealth.
- These skills take time to master, and all invested time generally grants some sort of value or wealth.
- Stock market (G.E.) works by the laws of supply and demand, if there is a low supply of an item and a high demand, the prices shall rise, and vice versa.
- Each skill has different materials to gather or create.
- Each of those materials take the same amount of time to gather no matter the supply or demand of an item, it's a set attribute of the game itself.
Okay, so far you agree with me... correct? If you don't please quote me and bold the specific statement in which you disagree...
Now here is the rest of my thought process...
- Botting earns a player unfair¹ amount of time invested in to the game, thus generating unfair¹ amount of materials.
- These materials flood the market, thus decreasing the demand for them, which brings the value of the gathered materials down.
- Those given materials still take the same amount of time to generate through game mechanics.
¹ = I believe it's unfair because it's against the rules and most people are unaware of bots.
I'd love to see someone try and compose an intellectual argument against those points...
Are you being fractious?Quote:
Originally Posted by Feroc1ty
Erroneous for events akin to (for example: ) shades of mort'ton or likewise activities, otherwise agreed.Quote:
Each of those materials take the same amount of time to gather no matter the supply or demand of an item, it's a set attribute of the game itself.
Runite ore disagrees unless we refine that definition to a timeframe rather than a static one.Quote:
Those given materials still take the same amount of time to generate through game mechanics.
Please upon making further posts be succinct without re-hashing things that have both already been covered above. For example:
Arguments for this have clearly been made previously. Instead of requesting something, read their posts and respond appropriately. Shoddy comments aren't welcome either, and if you had no intent of that matter then you need to work on connotation.Quote:
These materials flood the market, thus decreasing the demand for them, which brings the value of the gathered materials down.
In 2007 there were a shit load of Chinese bots selling a shit load of items in game. But no one really complained. Runescape was at its highest at that point. Then shortly after the removal of the wilderness, duel arena updates, and the grand exchange the game became pointless to play legit. I mean look without bots, real players would suffer to the fullest extent. All the prices would sky rocket. Armour would be harder to obtain, food would be harder to obtain which is needed in mostly everything you do on Runescape. People would start to quit, because Runescape has just changed to the "grinding" style of play.Quote:
Originally Posted by Feroc1ty
A real player who wants to go pk would rather have a bot, bot him 1k sharks and sell it on the g.e, so he can buy it. Rather then he himself the pker grabbing a harpoon and spend couple of hours fishing for sharks.
Botters save you valuable time. As long as Jagex keeps the trade limit and everything else I will continue to bot forever.
@cstrick nice grammar rofl, totally laid it out +1.
What you're doing is using assumptions and claiming them to be real, when really it's your opinion. What I asked anyone quoting me is proving one of my points wrong, you didn't, you have failed to prove anything...Quote:
Originally Posted by kingarabian
No assumptions here buddy. This is how truly everyone felt on Rs during those months. Wiki it if you like. Anyway explain how your "facts" are facts, and how do you know they are facts.Quote:
Originally Posted by Feroc1ty
And answer cstrike?
What people feel is an opinion, go expand your English vocabulary.Quote:
Originally Posted by kingarabian
EDIT: And for answering cstrike, all of his disagreements to my statements favor my side rather than your side, there's really no reason for me to address them.
Suit yourself. Jagex knows more then you and I. And what we know is that they have not done a mass ban to autoers in more than 3 years.Quote:
Originally Posted by Feroc1ty
Botters keep the economy flowing which also keeps real players and also brings income to Jagex.
Sidenote: This is a forum based on Runescape autoing. With your views you will probably fair better on the Runescape forums located @ Runescape.com
The bolded statement is an opinion of yours... as are my previous statements (but I'm intelligent enough to state that I'm conjuring up an opinion rather than just state it as a fact), I just have a lot more proof to back up my point of view, whilst you have absolutely none.Quote:
Originally Posted by kingarabian
Your side-view is irrelevant to the argument which you lost, but you don't admit defeat, you simply give me another opinion of yours... Which by the way is bent way out of perspective, in my opinion.
Go ahead and re-direct me to a forum that's 1000x more populated than this, doesn't really change the matter of fact; nothing personal against you, but you just seem to think you're smarter than you really are, and I took this up as chance to enlighten you.
no. they do go into the market, but the demand remains high, because other botters want those items to use. example: iron. botters bot it and sell on ge. i buy it along with coal to bot smelting. then sell bars. someone buys to smith. botters request all of these items. then they sell steel plates and alchers alch it. they keep the prices even, and as previously stated by idr his name, overall everything is gradually going up and bots just keep it at a slow craw instead of steamrolling up so nobody can get itQuote:
Originally Posted by Feroc1ty
But how did the botter earn the money to buy those supplies?Quote:
Originally Posted by bolshak25
He devalued other items.
Now, if you use the same logic as in my quote (which is yours), you're gonna think "So what's wrong with that, so he drove the price down to drive another price up... it evens out, right?"
Well, partially, it would be right if half of runescape botted, but that's not the case, at least I don't think it is... do you?
lol I believe i read somewhere that at least 75% of rs players bot.
Maybe not 24/7, but almost everyone is doing it now.
I think that may be the reason why Jagex hasn't been doing as much bans as they should...
You remind me of the classical greek philosiphers - refusing perfectly solid logic because of a lack of proof, when you yourself have just the same amount (if not less) of proof as the other person.Quote:
Originally Posted by Feroc1ty
If you want to flame and ride your high-horse, go somewhere else; we don't want people like you here.
Alright, explain to me what keeps the economy flowing, because there is NO way that sharks and lobsters are at record lows because of real players supplying it, also why real players are still playing despite the updates Jagex made and made runescape harder to play, and why hasn't Jagex done anything about bots. Enlighten me. And no, even tho your grammar or whatever it is is better than mine I still have a better common sense logic then you do. Your also contradicting yourself as you have not posted any proof backing up your opinions.Quote:
Originally Posted by Feroc1ty
What Kingabrian said is a fact. When JaGeX removed wilderness and created the tradelimit all the pkers, bots and most of the legit players stopped playing for a while. There were no more reasons to play runescape.Quote:
Originally Posted by Feroc1ty
Oh, and it's really mature to argue about who's got the best vocabulary <_<
My points still stand, despite you trying to weasel your way out of answering them (even with your trolling attempts). If you can't handle my arguments and respond appropriately when calling people out to do so, why even bother posting or requesting it?Quote:
Originally Posted by Feroc1ty
Oh, bots sure have an impact on the economy. I'm sure at least some of you remember the bankscreen update which caused Wizzup's essminer to break for 2 weeks, ess prices went from 25ea to 50ea. After it got fixed, it went back to 25-30ea.
And cosmic runes were stable at 150-160ea for years, until some bot came along and made them only 69ea :) (I still don't understand why blood runes went so high after over a year of 275ea, but that doesn't matter).
This is not necessarily a bad thing, however. RuneScape got its fair share of inflation and bots kept it under control for a while.
Since your points still stand I shall address them.Quote:
Originally Posted by cstrike
No, I'm simply confident as I am with anything I do.Quote:
Are you being fractious?
This little block of text I skimmed over and saw agreed, and assumed you were agreeing with me... but I guess I was deceived; your comment both states that I'm wrong, shows an example of where I was not, and than states that you otherwise agree with me which completely counteracts what was previously written, but I'll address the point anyways.Quote:
Erroneous for events akin to (for example: ) shades of mort'ton or likewise activities, otherwise agreed.
Now since your statement wasn't clear and simply said that I was incorrect I'll try and assume what thought process you used to come to that conclusion.
You may have thought that the materials may take a different amount of time to gather, due to the price of those materials being higher. Now let's take a look over that statement... if bots didn't exist, most of you guys believe that the prices would shoot up, and you are partially right.
Now since botting exists in most of the skill categories, it means that every single category of money making is affected by botting, which drives the prices down, correct?
Since I don't want to waste my time gathering my thoughts without your feedback on what I have written so far I'll wait till you respond and either agree or disagree with me, so I can either address the reason of why you disagree or continue writing.
Yes, runite ore indeed disagrees, but to my advantage; if bots didn't exist legitimate players could attain the ore easier, and gain larger amount of gold for the same amount of gold. But don't bother quoting this comment and explaining why it's erroneous, as I can foresee your argument which will be addressed when my previous statement has gotten a response.Quote:
Runite ore disagrees unless we refine that definition to a timeframe rather than a static one.
I skimmed through most of the stuff but couldn't really find anything that addressed my points directly... please help me do so, if you believe that I'm in the wrong.Quote:
Please upon making further posts be succinct without re-hashing things that have both already been covered above. For example:
:duh:Quote:
Originally Posted by Feroc1ty
What a great way to write so much about so little. They should give you Timer's award.
You did not even address my point either, but just blabbed on about how you think my point helped you when it seems to either have gone over your head, or you mis-read it.
No, what I said at the end does not suddenly disregard anything previous.
No, my statement was clear. Please expand upon
Versus how Shades of Mort'ton contrasts that (with specificity of the sacred oil).Quote:
Each of those materials take the same amount of time to gather no matter the supply or demand of an item, it's a set attribute of the game itself.
Have you done this activity? Do you know what this is? You didn't claim that you have not played it, so I assume you have.
No, that is not what I said. The discussion went:Quote:
Yes, runite ore indeed disagrees, but to my advantage; if bots didn't exist legitimate players could attain the ore easier, and gain larger amount of gold for the same amount of gold. But don't bother quoting this comment and explaining why it's erroneous, as I can foresee your argument which will be addressed when my previous statement has gotten a response.
And then I responded giving you an example for you to discuss runite regeneration time with regards to it's non-static state.Quote:
Those given materials still take the same amount of time to generate through game mechanics.
Please address this appropriately.
LOL :D!!Quote:
I skimmed through most of the stuff but couldn't really find anything that addressed my points directly... please help me do so, if you believe that I'm in the wrong.
Valid points I made remain valid despite purposeful evading of the point.
I really don't have the time for another pseduo-Asperger post, and I doubt anyone else wants to see another one either. Maturity comes with time, and you need more time. If you'd like to make a huge rant about how no one sees your point, take it to the BBQ. Stay on topic or we will have to get a mod here.
;)
I've never played the mini game nor do I want to know what it is (although I attempted to attain some information from tip.it), please give another example of an activity since you implied there were a few.Quote:
Originally Posted by cstrike
That is an unacceptable cop out, how do I know you just won't go "I've never used it, next point please" again and again :rolleyes:, your posts already show you waste people's time by either not reading it or deeming it "unworthy", so I will waste no more time debating if your just going to pretend each point is invalid to suit your own viewpoint.Quote:
Originally Posted by Feroc1ty
You justify your cop-out by displaying that I "coped-out" although it was a completely normal and reasonable response, even so inclined by your previous response.Quote:
Originally Posted by cstrike
Okay Dr. Dickwad, we get it, you had no idea what you were trying to say and gave up after I called you out on your bullshit, I gave you a chance to even evade your bullshit and gave you a genuine route to take, but you knew that I was prepared for it as I mentioned that I already foresee your response.
Cant you please just let it drop? Obviously we all have valid points that shut down your opinions. Atm your just being an attention whote.Quote:
Originally Posted by Feroc1ty
I hit the red X button beside his post and reported it to the mods ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by kingarabian
I'm at fault for falling into and somewhat feeding his bait though, to those offended by this debacle I apologize.
Hopefully they take action, based on his entire post history he has little interest in contributing to our atmosphere as a community. Once appropriate action has been taken, hopefully we can resume the thread to where it once was. His angry belligerent responses aren't welcome here.
;)Quote:
He who angers you conquers you.
- Elizabeth Kenny