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Thread: S.M.A.R.T Is against the law?

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    Default S.M.A.R.T Is against the law?

    The smart client isn't against the law is it? I have a ignorant person trying to tell me it is, by it leads to to wonder.. is it? It's technically not even a different Runescape client is it?

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    im sure somewhere in their TOS there is a clause saying something to the effect of:

    Code:
    if(not(accessViaRSWebsite) or not(accessViaRSOfficialClient))then
      breakingTOS := true;
    and as far as breaking their TOS goes in america: http://lifehacker.com/5901773/breaki...sarily-a-crime

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    To my knowledge, it is not. It simply loads the RS client. It doesn't copy or manipulate anything.

    This is probably a good question for @BenLand100.
    Last edited by Coh3n; 01-31-2013 at 12:27 AM.

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    In Norway it's completely legal to break any TOS, unless doing so means breaking any law, of course.

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    Quote Originally Posted by x[Warrior]x3500 View Post
    im sure somewhere in their TOS there is a clause saying something to the effect of:

    Code:
    if(not(accessViaRSWebsite) or not(accessViaRSOfficialClient))then
      breakingTOS := true;
    and as far as breaking their TOS goes in america: http://lifehacker.com/5901773/breaki...sarily-a-crime
    An interesting read!

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    Hey rr I saw that thread you made, quite entertaining, but those guys will never change their ways.
    I hope you're right /other guy is just talking out of his butt!
    Either way even if it is illegal/against ToS it really doesn't matter to bots of smaller scale at all and won't put us in any radars.

    I'd also like to know the exact details about this all!

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    How am I supposed to know if it is illegal or not? I neither know nor care what the laws are. If it is "illegal" it's not worth the cost of a court case and the worst case scenario is you get banned. You're taking that risk anyway, so it seems like a moot issue.

    Wizzup? p.s. redname me again when you get a chance

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    Quote Originally Posted by x[Warrior]x3500 View Post
    im sure somewhere in their TOS there is a clause saying something to the effect of:

    Code:
    if(not(accessViaRSWebsite) or not(accessViaRSOfficialClient))then
      breakingTOS := true;
    and as far as breaking their TOS goes in america: http://lifehacker.com/5901773/breaki...sarily-a-crime
    That'd be a valid point were SMART not loading RS directly from the official website.
    SMART even tells you it's loading straight from runescape.com in the debug when it starts up.

    All it does different is load it inside a JVM so it has its own mouse.
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    Pretty much i made a suggestion for them to have a minimizable bot, and they all got scared and teamed up thinking it was against the law.

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    Rjj could you link us to the thread?

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    Quote Originally Posted by BenLand100 View Post
    How am I supposed to know if it is illegal or not? I neither know nor care what the laws are. If it is "illegal" it's not worth the cost of a court case and the worst case scenario is you get banned. You're taking that risk anyway, so it seems like a moot issue.

    Wizzup? p.s. redname me again when you get a chance
    Well, you're the creator of SMART, so I thought you might know.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rjj95 View Post
    Thanks. It's kind of weird for them to close your thread just for making a suggestion that would make Rid be less bad.

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    I agreed at first, but it's just a thing RiD will most likely never have. RiD seems to be pretty again making the bot minimizeable natively so there's not really a need for a thread dis using it.
    But yeah I don't see why they're so against it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by YoHoJo View Post
    I agreed at first, but it's just a thing RiD will most likely never have. RiD seems to be pretty again making the bot minimizeable natively so there's not really a need for a thread dis using it.
    But yeah I don't see why they're so against it.
    Because it apparently breaks Jagex's ToS, but I would assume there's also something in there about breaking the rules of the game (in which case they would be violating the ToS anyway). Maybe there is no such term in the ToS, I don't know, but from that thread it seems RiD is pretty on top of things like that.

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    That's a good point Coh3n, if they think breaking the tos = breaking the law, then wouldn't they be just as guilty as any other bot developer?

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    RiD is a POS anyway.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BMWxi View Post
    That's a good point Coh3n, if they think breaking the tos = breaking the law, then wouldn't they be just as guilty as any other bot developer?
    Assuming rule breaking is against their ToS, then yes.

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    So Firefox doesn't modify the client, it just loads it. Does that make Firefox illegal?

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    I think it's not illegal it's just other people are confused and not sure what they are talking about.

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    Wow i am just amazed at the stupidity of those people. the first post after...
    Sorry to burst your bubble, but RiD is also mimimizable as seen here: http://www.roboru...imize-Your-Bot
    Sorry to burst StevenC's bubble, but minimizing a VM is not minimizing rid/a program. it still leaves everything open in its original state.

    as for everyone else there thinking that smart is illegal because it modifies the rs client or doesnt ... something, is just plain stupid. imagine smart as firefox like @Echo_ said. A long time ago (prolly right after 2011 nuke) i was looking into new botting 'methods' and finally went there. I made an account. downloaded the client and then deleted it. It sucked. who wants to pay for crap you can get for free?

    Annyway. long story short. the people at rid are, imo, stupid beyond belief.

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    Look, I'm not here to argue with everyone, but just going to leave this here:

    Minimizing RuneScape directly would be a violation of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA). Users of any customized version of the RuneScape client, are violating real-world rules and could potentially be sued by Jagex.

    We don't minimize RuneScape directly, to protect our users, and because (although we disagree with some aspects of gameplay) we absolutely respect Jagex's rights, according to the DMCA.

    You can minimize your bot without committing an offense, with very little overhead, using Adam's Virtual Machine.
    Another bit:

    Regarding this issue, the TOS of RuneScape states, "You must not use a modified/customised version of the client software" and "such activity may constitute civil wrongs and/or criminal offences, and Jagex reserves the right to take such action as appropriate in the circumstances should it become aware that such offences are being committed."

    Many bots do this (for minimization), and this is what leaves their users open to being sued.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jagex Terms and Conditions
    You must not reverse-engineer, decompile or modify any Jagex Product client software in any way (except to the extent allowed by applicable law). You must not use a modified/customised version of the client software or attempt to copy, transfer or sub-license it. You must not create or provide any other means by which any Jagex Product may be played by others (including, without limitation, replacement or modified client/server software, server emulators). Please note that any such activity may constitute civil wrongs and/or criminal offences, and we reserve the right to take such action as appropriate in the circumstances should we become aware that such offences are being committed.
    Now obviously the SMART client doesn't decompile, reverse-engineer, or anything of that sort. The technicalities arise in the DMCA (Digital Millenium Copyright Right Act). WoW has had court cases regarding copyright violations similar to what is mentioned in Jagex's ToS (and won).

    Now obviously all of the bits and pieces of the ToS will be subjective based on the reader, but ultimately only a lawyer specializing in these kind of matters would be able to make a strong verdict on the matter, so there's no point in arguing back and forth, because no one will change their mind.

    Now obviously, like Benland said, the SMART client and the Villavu community are not a big enough threat for Jagex to go through all the time and money to bring him to court. Even then, if they succeeded, it would not pose a long-term solution for the "problem," and someone else could/would probably pop-up with another similar project. Ultimately legal action is highly, highly unprobable, and wouldn't be worth the effort on Jagex's end.

    Like I said, I'm not trying to argue with everyone (I will not respond to people who blatantly attempt this, so don't waste your time).

    If Benland wants to explain exactly why and how it does not violate the DMCA, then I'm all ears and would be very very interested to hear it. If he can explain how and why, and it's a pretty concrete method, who knows, maybe RiD could learn a few things and incorporate it himself. But, again, RiD refuses to do anything that would jeopardize the legality of his software, so if there's any doubt or legal grey area, I don't see him doing anything like it.

    (Again, don't try arguing with me on this one, I will not play that game and respond, so do not waste your time)

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    I believe you'll just get a lot of opinions on this thread, as no one can really answer this thoroughly. In my own opinion, no SMART is technically not breaking the "DMCA", therefore causing no legal issues. SMART does not modify Runescape's client in any way, SMART simply loads it. The factors that make it minimizable are just canvas hacks, as you can read more about on Mopar's forums. They're quite separate from the client, just like the GUI and what not; no client modification.

    As with popular RS loaders, like Swiftkit I believe, they're simply loading the client, and 100% legal in Jagex's eyes.

    @Echo_: You make a good point mate. Even if Jagex wanted to pull some legal disputes against using SMART I would gladly take them up on that argument. There's plenty of current-day examples I could cite on how SMART is no more of a threat than FireFox, Swiftkit, ect...


    Also one more detail I'd like to bring up. Let's not call other people names and talk badly about them. If the community over at RiD want to argue that SMART is indeed illegal then let them believe it. It's their opinion, they're entitled to believe whatever they want, just as we are. We don't need to fall to the level of attacking one another, here we're better than that... As the wise WT-Fakawi said, we're all in the RS-cheating scene, like it or not we're in the same boat here. Especially RiD & Simba, we've much in common.
    Last edited by Flight; 01-31-2013 at 04:35 AM.

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    You must not create or provide any other means by which any Jagex Product may be played by others
    that part of the TOS is the most important as far as we are concerned. It clearly states that we can not create or provide a way to play RS other than the official site or client. This does not state the use of such a client though. so technically by this statement alone, both benland and those incharge of SRL have been in violation of the TOS (benland- created; SRL- i believe it automatically comes with srl, so they provide it)

    edit: but if u look at the sentence before that, we clearly are breaking the ToS as well. so as my post way up above said...

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    Quote Originally Posted by x[Warrior]x3500 View Post
    that part of the TOS is the most important as far as we are concerned. It clearly states that we can not create or provide a way to play RS other than the official site or client. This does not state the use of such a client though. so technically by this statement alone, both benland and those incharge of SRL have been in violation of the TOS (benland- created; SRL- i believe it automatically comes with srl, so they provide it)

    edit: but if u look at the sentence before that, we clearly are breaking the ToS as well. so as my post way up above said...
    From how I see it, Smart loads the official runescape site, but uses the java applet URL, so its no different from a browser, and all the canvas stuff is nothing to do with jagex, so nothing here is illegal lol, none of the original client code is touched


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