Poll: Do mouse movements decrease ban chance?

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Thread: [POLL] Do mouse movements decrease ban chance?

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    Post [POLL] Do mouse movements decrease ban chance?

    There's lots of opinions about whether or not mouse movements decrease ban rate. I've heard some of the arguments, but would like to see data on what the community thinks.
    I have a big project coming up and am debating whether or not to include them.

    So far my thoughts include ones that are unrelated to ban rates.

    1. Mouse movements look cool
    2. Mouse movements make the script much more inaccurate when interacting with on-screen objects.



    Please discuss <3

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ross View Post
    Mouse movements make the script much more inaccurate when interacting with on-screen objects.
    I think you're wrong when you say they are unrelated to bans. If you missed a banker by a couple pixels and clicked to get a yellow X, Then quickly reacted and moused the banker accurately, that situation seems really human to me. I do it all the time when I play legit. This could be replicated this with MoveMouse, but I feel like it wouldn't look as human overall. And it would require a bit more effort.

    Mouse movements also add a nice amount of randomness to the time between things.

    My conclusion is use mouse movements as much as you can, but if you need to mouse something pretty small while moving, then go ahead and use MoveMouse.

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    I'm convinced they don't really matter seeing as AHK used properly doesn't get you banned. You can create some crazy banking scripts with AHK and get away with it. However I've someplace ingame that Jagex records 60 seconds of your gameplay when you get reported, who knows, maybe they also record your mousemovements then.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ross View Post
    There's lots of opinions about whether or not mouse movements decrease ban rate. I've heard some of the arguments, but would like to see data on what the community thinks.
    I have a big project coming up and am debating whether or not to include them.

    So far my thoughts include ones that are unrelated to ban rates.

    1. Mouse movements look cool
    2. Mouse movements make the script much more inaccurate when interacting with on-screen objects.



    Please discuss <3
    Honestly, this could easily be looked at from a SRL vs ogLib stand point. SRL uses them and ogLib does not. if in the near future we don't see a significant difference in the ban rates between either methods, then the answer becomes obvious in my opinion. I am leaning towards them being irrelevant based on that hasn't really been a difference lately in ban rates and if they were relevant I feel like no mouse movements is a pretty big indicator of a bot. its all still low for our community.

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    TeamViewer, AHK, and Mousekeys have all been stated to be legal (with a 1:1 ratio). Touchscreen computers and playing via mobile browser are also far more common than years ago.

    It doesn't make any sense for them to bother with mouse movements in the current state of our cat and mouse game. They can detect everyone easily already, including RiD and other "biometric" bots, but they choose not to most likely for business reasons. They'll ban when it's in their interests, and leave us alone when it's in their interests.

    I do think mouse movements look cool, but they are horrid in a single threaded script when you are trying to handle advanced combat situations (GWD/QBD/Arax etc). You can die so easily because a mouse movement stalled your script.

    They do, however, add in a randomized delay between clicks, which we know less about. Many people have run scripts to 99 skills with constant, clearly obvious robotic clicking with no bans.

    Their exact ban strategy will forever be a mystery, but I'll make the same point I've made before, it is surely business motivated. Being detected does not mean they care/will ban you.

    Ideally of course we would be undetectable, which I think we should strive for - that's another discussion mouse movements, again, would be the last or optional step, imo, in reaching that endgame.
    Last edited by Clarity; 01-13-2016 at 06:01 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Camel View Post
    I think you're wrong when you say they are unrelated to bans
    I may be missing something but I don't think I gave my opinion at all in OP.

    Quote Originally Posted by fady View Post
    Honestly, this could easily be looked at from a SRL vs ogLib stand point.
    Maybe, but I use both includes (I don't like to vs. them since I think they are both extremely powerful in their own ways) and use mouse movements whenever I can.

    Quote Originally Posted by Clarity View Post
    ...
    Yet some things cause bans whereas others don't. I see the same bots every time I'm in Taverley every time I'm at the bank spamming "What is your level in Defence?" before running to the dragons to goldfarm more, yet some accounts report that they can't even bot to 40 WC without getting banned. Surely there is something outside of the business aspect.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ross View Post
    I may be missing something but I don't think I gave my opinion at all in OP.
    I mean't that by being inaccurate it does affect bans.

    You said mouse movements are inaccurate (which is true) but it is unrelated to bans (which is questionably true)

    I think I may have misread what you wrote though..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Camel View Post
    I mean't that by being inaccurate it does affect bans.

    You said mouse movements are inaccurate (which is true) but it is unrelated to bans (which is questionably true)

    I think I may have misread what you wrote though..
    Ohhhhh I see what you're saying. I'd say they are tangentially related, mainly because I fake missing the mouse on purpose.

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    Just had a great discussion on Skype about this. From my history, I'd say Mouse Movements are needed due to what I'm used to. It was one of the most important things to make sure your script did. However, things have changed. ogLib doesn't have them, and I've been told people haven't used them for at least a year with no bans. I'd like to see some data, like hours botted, skills botted, how many 99's, how much gp earned, etc, all without mouse movements. I think it would be great for the community, not saying everyone should change depending on the data. Everyone should write their scripts to how they feel comfortable, as you may like to use mouse movements. I can't really say either way at this point, as I'm kind of leaning towards mouse movements do not matter, but the old me says it does.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyle Undefined View Post
    Just had a great discussion on Skype about this. From my history, I'd say Mouse Movements are needed due to what I'm used to. It was one of the most important things to make sure your script did. However, things have changed. ogLib doesn't have them, and I've been told people haven't used them for at least a year with no bans. I'd like to see some data, like hours botted, skills botted, how many 99's, how much gp earned, etc, all without mouse movements. I think it would be great for the community, not saying everyone should change depending on the data. Everyone should write their scripts to how they feel comfortable, as you may like to use mouse movements. I can't really say either way at this point, as I'm kind of leaning towards mouse movements do not matter, but the old me says it does.
    Took the words out of my mouth.

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    I cannot vote; as a suitable option is not available.

    My opinion is .mouse off screen is the only useful anti-ban. As uptext 'could be monitored', if i were to play RS i would always be working on the main monitor, not the RS one. Therefore the mouse would rarely be 'on' screen.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AFools View Post
    I cannot vote; as a suitable option is not available.

    My opinion is .mouse off screen is the only useful anti-ban. As uptext 'could be monitored', if i were to play RS i would always be working on the main monitor, not the RS one. Therefore the mouse would rarely be 'on' screen.
    Interesting idea. What about the actual movement though? Would click something, teleport off would be sufficient in your view?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ross View Post
    Maybe, but I use both includes (I don't like to vs. them since I think they are both extremely powerful in their own ways) and use mouse movements whenever I can.
    I didn't mean to do a vs situation, I currently use both too. I only meant it from a methodology stand point where we can obtain data on bans based on use/non use of mouse movements because the 2 includes do them differently, not which is better.

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    Well i don't really use much antiban on my personal scripts; i usually add them before public release since that is what the community is accustomed too.

    teleport off? You mean instant mouseoff? if so that is absolutely fine in my mind.

    random mouse movements around the screen; well i guess the odd uptext would occur. Could be useful but i doubt.

    ## edit

    Fady's reply - I would to be interest in the cross ban rates, But from looking around the forum. It seems the choice of include is decided in the back of the mind based on logic/style of the senior devs for that include.
    So i witness different includes lead to a completely different botting experience; this also occurs due to the senior devs development and us underdogs follow the styles until we find our own. (which i have my own and this reduced ban rates; maybe, maybe not).

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    It really depends on algorithms they use. It could be researched.

    Just consider tracking your mouse position every x milliseconds would send enormous amount of data to servers. I don't play RS anymore, but when I did I made an experiment one time: observing packets when I'm alone in the map with no NPCs and I didn't see any additional packets send when I'm moving mouse. Of course game could have been sending every X minutes a file containing all your logged mouse traces, but just imagine how big that structure would be.
    So if they wanted to analize mouse movements they would rather put an algorithm inside the client, which would only send flag to server if detected something suspicious.

    Although there might be also a hidden mechanism, which can trigger only if your account is under investigation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyle Undefined View Post
    I'd like to see some data, like hours botted, skills botted, how many 99's, how much gp earned, etc, all without mouse movements.
    Clarity and Ross can verify, got multiple accounts to 200M Constitution, Magic, Ranged from farming Ascension and training at the Abyss. I had them logged in all day. The minute I got home and realized they weren't logged in, they were put back online. Did this for several months, maybe more than a year - Clarity would know better than I. Don't keep track of that stuff.

    That alone was enough to convince me to never bother with them again.




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    I was talking to Clarity in Skype, it sounds very awesome that the no mouse movements worked out like that. I just can't imagine watching the mouse just click instantly on what it is told. Just new to me.
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    I'm leaning towards No - irrelevant so that's what I voted for.

    I think mouse movements are useful for adding in a natural wait timer between clicks.

    I think it is time between clicks that is more of a red flag than anything else.
    Example: clicking (0,0), MoveMouse to (500,500), clicking (500,500) - two clicks with a significant distance between them within a matter of milliseconds? Hmm..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyle Undefined View Post
    I just can't imagine watching the mouse just click instantly on what it is told. Just new to me.
    This is EXACTLY what I thought the first time I used OgLib. After a few weeks of using it I have gotten used to it and haven't seen any difference in bans (that being said I have only ever been banned once using Simba and it was due to reports mining for weeks straight). I honestly don't know what triggers their automatic banning system though because I have even used a simple 1000ms wait autoclicker for multiple hours with no repercussions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by honeyhoney View Post
    I'm leaning towards No - irrelevant so that's what I voted for.

    I think mouse movements are useful for adding in a natural wait timer between clicks.

    I think it is time between clicks that is more of a red flag than anything else.
    Example: clicking (0,0), MoveMouse to (500,500), clicking (500,500) - two clicks with a significant distance between them within a matter of milliseconds? Hmm..
    That's the only reason I still use mouse movements in the scripts I write. I just don't want to have to make custom waits between each click depending on how far they would be.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AFools View Post
    I cannot vote; as a suitable option is not available.
    My opinion is .mouse off screen is the only useful anti-ban.
    I would vote no, but I believe moving the mouse off screen does help.

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    ** Delete ** Went full retard;
    Last edited by AFools; 01-14-2016 at 12:59 AM. Reason: ^^ You didn't edit that post Hoodz??

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    Quote Originally Posted by AFools View Post
    ** Delete ** Went full retard
    no problem.

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    I don't remember whether you can detect focus with Java, so someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't mousing off of the client do literally nothing for antiban if the input focus is still on the client?



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    Quote Originally Posted by Incurable View Post
    I don't remember whether you can detect focus with Java, so someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't mousing off of the client do literally nothing for antiban if the input focus is still on the client?
    Focus is irrelevant, you can use mouseEntered/Exited in the MouseListener interface

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