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Thread: Reddit Awareness Increase

  1. #1
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    Default Reddit Awareness Increase

    Perhaps I am just browsing r/runescape more often these days, but I feel like I am starting to see bot sighting posts much more frequently, gaining more and more traction.

    Some recent discussions:
    120 Mining, 76M Agility Sighting & Discussion
    Nature Rune Bots
    Maxed Bots Discussion
    Maxed Bot Sighting & Discussion
    How to bots get that far? Discussion
    Another Maxed Players Botting Discussion
    1B+ Hunter XP Bot Army Banned after Reddit Sighting (longer ago)

    There is a lot of emphasis on maxed account botting lately, these type of sightings naturally gain more traction and hype for JMods to see.

    Nobody in these sightings may be from SRL, but I'd recommend if you are new here, and thinking about simplistic click-scripting in Elf City, you should consider being more subtle about your activities, implementing failsafes, et cetera. Don't draw attention to yourself.

    People seem more jaded and less interested in reporting/banning generic gold farming bots, and much more interested in banning maxed/completionist accounts since they feel they are taking away from the "real" high scores.

    Bot safe everyone. Don't get banned because of a stray player report or reddit hype thread about your account(s).
    Last edited by Clarity; 04-21-2015 at 12:55 PM.

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    Time to add world hopping to my elf city scripts after x hours!

    Forum account issues? Please send me a PM

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    Definitely been seeing these as well. It seems though that most of the ire is being drawn to seren stone bots though. There's like a post a day about a broken one of those in the HLF as well.

    One hidden reason behind people wanting to banned maxed/comped bots is that everyone is totally jealous that they don't have a max/comp cape so they are most likely more driven to report you. It's kinda surprising that they can't / don't detect all these idiotic green drag/ chaos tunnel bots because I'm pretty sure I could design a botwatch to catch 99% of them: check combat stats, if they're "high" then if they have more than 15 level 1 skills (<10qp could be added here too) they are a bot...

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    Quote Originally Posted by J_R View Post
    Definitely been seeing these as well. It seems though that most of the ire is being drawn to seren stone bots though. There's like a post a day about a broken one of those in the HLF as well.

    One hidden reason behind people wanting to banned maxed/comped bots is that everyone is totally jealous that they don't have a max/comp cape so they are most likely more driven to report you. It's kinda surprising that they can't / don't detect all these idiotic green drag/ chaos tunnel bots because I'm pretty sure I could design a botwatch to catch 99% of them: check combat stats, if they're "high" then if they have more than 15 level 1 skills (<10qp could be added here too) they are a bot...
    Well that's all circumstantial evidence, and while it is 99.99% likely that they are bots, they might not be. Action cannot be taken based on appearances alone.

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    Wow :O thanks for the heads, Clarity!
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    I'm curious as to how they got to 99 without a ban. Without basic failsafes, you think you'd have gotten banned earlier on.
    I understand that they could've used another script to get there, but wouldn't they have some general knowledge about how to bot after all that time?
    Come on, botters. Come on.

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    It's understandable. The people seeing these kinds of bots have spent hundreds of hours grinding skills, so when they see someone else who has a similar account but who appears to have gotten there by cheating, it makes them envious. While this might make some people decide to bot at well, recently Jagex has done a pretty good job of scaring people away from botting. So they decide to try to get the offending account banned, and know the most effective way of getting Jagex's attention is by social media.

    What you can do to avoid this happening to you:
    • Don't bot (Elf city is super afk anyway, plus amazing XP rates)
    • Bot somewhere without envious maxed players
    • Make sure your script doesn't expose you as being a bot


    Because you're reading this, the first option probably isn't one you want to take.
    The second option is reasonable, but it's not an option for those with the 'no xp-waste' approach to training.
    That leaves the third option, which is blend in so well they think you're a real player. I think this is the best one because in an ideal situation all legitimate RS players would think that there were no bots left in Runescape, so they would contentedly play the game without getting unhappy about people who bot.

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    At this point, I'm pretty sure that Jagex has the power to ban all of us if they wanted to, but they legitimately can't do that anymore without suffering a giant profit loss. Let's think about it like this:

    Definite Changes:
    1. Split Community (RS3 vs Old School)
    2. Less legitimate F2P newcomers and new long term players
    3. Polarizing game changes with Treasure Hunter and Solomon Store

    The main times I played Runescape was around 2006-2008 era, briefly in 2012-13, and a lot more in the past few months than I ever have. I've never seen a company manage to alienate their player base so ridiculously hard. I feel like the "good old days" around 2007 was cut short by the removal of the Wilderness some time around that area which was the first major business error they made. People started to quit in massive numbers. Continued alienation came even after free trade and the Wilderness came back with the introduction of the squeal of fortune in 2012. The failure of EOC and the slow response time to fix major problems and the introduction of RS3 has provided more nails for the coffin.

    So taking a step back, and looking at RS3 overall we see a drop in the overall numbers of players, but the realization that Jagex doesn't care. It's like modern RS is like a freemium app. The majority of money is no longer made on subscriptions, but instead through the relatively smaller percentage of players with deep wallets who like to pay for spins and nice cosmetics. This is what makes apps like Clash of Clans and Game of War gain millions of dollars, but its also what has driven the population away from RS3 itself. The people legitimately playing the game still are dropping like flies, but the game is still profitable because of these few out of pocket players.

    Since the F2P version of RS3 is absolute garbage at this point, I don't think hardly anyone is actually signing up for legit accounts. I know this isn't the greatest sample size, but just looking at this forum participation, how many players are left? How many new long term members are we getting? Recently, I've been digging through the forums and looking at the "giants" of Runescape botters, many of whom haven't posted in this forum for a good long while. YoHoJo was the one who taught me basics of programming, but his profile seems to be silent. Looking at the profiles of some of the original developers seems to show similar things. It makes me feel like I missed a golden age of some great Runescape era.

    At this point, the main players are completionists as PVP, the previous main reason to play this game, is almost nonexistent. Even submitting to the player base and creating old school as well as legacy mode is like admitting defeat. However, the completionists are the greatest consumers of resources and hold the most potential profit to be made. To a company, people who have been paying for 5-10 years are some of the best investments into the future a company can hold for. That means that autoclicking and minor botting for skill bans are near non-existent for fear of losing a long term customer and heavily consumed resources must enter the game somehow. Just think about it. Who even legit kills dragons anymore? If all those crappy wildy dragon bots got banned, how would the economy react? This isn't like after the first bot nuke which benefited legit players by granting them money making opportunities. Who legit crafts natures anymore? Who makes unf potions just for profit? Who legit harvests any natural resources anymore? It's all xp waste to these high level players. That's also why I think divine locations where created: just to fill the void of natural resources that the bots left. Also, the only reason RS3 gp isn't like a cent a mil nowadays is because bonds are inflating the price. I was reading a thread on here a few days ago that said that gold sellers aren't even buying rs3 gold anymore because no one wants to buy it from them.

    It's really sad to see the population numbers of worlds whenever Runescape updates and all of the bots break. Anyways, this turned out much longer than I'd think. I apologize for the rants, but I'd like to see other people's commentson this issue as well.

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    I wonder why maxed people bot to begin with... Haven't they already "made" it? Or is there something I'm not seeing? Why not start a new acc. or a hardcore for instance?

    EDIT:
    Quote Originally Posted by yourule97 View Post
    It makes me feel like I missed a golden age of some great Runescape ear.
    I feel the same way, I started playing the last couple of months of Runescape classic and stopped around 2007, but never stepped out of free-to-play until 2012, when by then the community had already begun to disintegrate, and then I didn't find simba until 2014. It's sad that the game's changed to the point where it's unrecognizable, the main reason I'm botting now is the nostalgia of what the game once was.

    Maybe when I've finished botting I'll run though all the members quests, will be a nice cap to the years of playing. Is there any way to capture the good ol' days?
    Last edited by Lobster; 04-20-2015 at 01:04 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lobster View Post
    Is there any way to capture the good ol' days?
    I believe that when RS dies, the private server community will explode. There's literally thousands of server bases out there, some poorly coded and some professionally ...

    There will always be people who want to play RS (no matter how crappy it becomes).
    So when Jagex finally rolls over and dies, I'd imagine a lot of them will pick up where people like Graham, Delta_, Sanity, winterlove, Scully, Miss Silabsoft, and moparisthebest left off.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clarity View Post
    Well that's all circumstantial evidence, and while it is 99.99% likely that they are bots, they might not be. Action cannot be taken based on appearances alone.
    Yeah, but if you're 99.99% likely to be right (even if you remove one 9), I think the correct decision would be to take the action and just risk that you're wrong in 1 out of 10k attempts. The action could very well be more heavily scrutinizing their play for like 15~ mins to even further reduce the false positive rate; however, in this case it's probably not necessary. If the problem is that Jagex just can't run botwatch/whatever on the vast sea of bots out there because of insufficient computing power then I suppose they are up that creek without a paddle and maybe even using the really rotten one I suggested would probably 'improve' things. Together with an improved appeal system (haha right) I feel that it would be a workable solution (I doubt goldfarmers will take the time to write out a heartfelt appeal anyways)

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    Quote Originally Posted by yourule97 View Post
    It makes me feel like I missed a golden age of some great Runescape era.
    I used to feel this a lot. Not much I can do about the runescape side of things though so I try to help scripting/botting side stay useful.

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    Without ever being in elf city, what makes it so easy to afk and get stuck?

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    Quote Originally Posted by yourule97 View Post
    At this point, I'm pretty sure that Jagex has the power to ban all of us if they wanted to, but they legitimately can't do that anymore without suffering a giant profit loss. Let's think about it like this:
    Jagex doesn't detect macroing and not ban. They're also not stupid and dont give the same punishment to all.

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    Last month is ridiculous for me(0 bans in rs3 1in osrs while rs3 monthly average used to be around 50-80 or around 3 weeks per account average survival in suicidal areas). Jagex just DOES NOT BAN ANYMORE on RS3. Got few accounts stuck, got millions of resources farmed WITHOUT antiban, increased shift time from around 6h to ridiculous high 12, sometimes 15-16 as lazy to redeem bonds and some guys work nearly double shifts. Seen NONE of concurents being banned last month. SOME of them are being stuck WHOLE time they run bot, for example working with 1 net 15 straight hours at salamanders, or watching 15 hours for my bots to crash their world(some keep coming to bank-from bank seeing my and teleying and whole time this , some just probably opened some random interface stands still logged in for few hours everyday ), and ALL of them managed to get to low 90's in hunting during that month. Proffit in some areas became so ridiculously low, some crashed 4 times. For example fungus is now around 160k/h in p2p, thats unimaginable. And chineese still bots cause NO bans have been given recently.

    Running mud runes bots i see everyday same world red spider eggs bots at CW. Some run like 20h a day, some with 35+summoning, which is like 150k+ eggs made, NO bans. Tanning hides sometimes give no proffit at all, which suggests its heavily being botted now.

    Have green drags bot, but wont run there even i am pretty sure wont get bans cause its ridiculously unprofitable, around 250k/h with accounts i got, and up to 500k with maxed ones But chineese continue to bot, because they get no bans.

    All other farming methods, even in semi-high lvls are declining rapidly. Fungali mages, Mud runes, Nats..

    Well bout gold, sold all i had around 0.21€ but it tooked a while. It seems to settle there but for long? doubt it. Also increased bond prices hits proffit too, especially in low lvl farmig.

    Personally i have got left only 1 low level farming method which is proffitable for me in rs3. And its getting crowded cause everyone tries to shift there. Soon there with those tendences will be none methods left.

    Pretty sure game is dead now, as i am shifting to osrs since yesterday

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    One interesting question I actually just thought of (tangentially related to the topic kinda sorta) is considering whether the mass crash of like everything (particularly t90 weps/t70+ armours) is related somehow to the increase in the number of bots. I'm a bit skeptical that it's just because people are wanting pets as before everything started crashing they've wanted pets all the same and the prices were ok; however since around the time of the wicked hood teleport token being tradeable everything seems to have crashed (not only nats). At least to me this would be an interesting speculation to have.

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    Quote Originally Posted by J_R View Post
    One interesting question I actually just thought of (tangentially related to the topic kinda sorta) is considering whether the mass crash of like everything (particularly t90 weps/t70+ armours) is related somehow to the increase in the number of bots. I'm a bit skeptical that it's just because people are wanting pets as before everything started crashing they've wanted pets all the same and the prices were ok; however since around the time of the wicked hood teleport token being tradeable everything seems to have crashed (not only nats). At least to me this would be an interesting speculation to have.
    There has been talk of T95 weps coming out so I'd put T90s crashing due to that speculation.

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    So, to provide a little bit more info on my claims and to reinforce my argument, the reason that I think people aren't banned nowadays is because Jagex can't handle that profit loss. Just look at the look at the upsides of not banning those crap dragon killing bots. Jagex gets continued membership payments and the bone economy stays the same. The only reason that the bot awareness movement is gaining traction on reddit is because Jagex is not even banning them after the reach 99 combat stats. Take that hunter bot clarity mentioned in the original post for instance. That bot was supposedly there for months, and was only manually banned after the community had an uproar.

    To add to that just watch this video of the original bot nuke: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4-d21MUQAs

    I didn't play members during this time period, so seeing that many bots is an absolutely crazy image for me. When I did more research, I found that 40% of active RS accounts were banned. This was in 2011 and since SOF was introduced in 2012, Jagex lost a ridiculous 40% of their profits. From a business perspective, that is absolutely ridiculous for a company to take that risk. The more I research this, the more that I think that either 1. They planned the loss of membership accounts so that they could introduce SoF in early 2012 to recoup losses or 2. They introduce SoF as a panic maneuver.

    For those who are still unsure, look at it this way: In a game (Old School) that is solely profitable through memberships, has a growing and active playerbase, and an actual valuable ingame currency, bots must be banned within a day or two of detection to stabilize the ingame economy. A couple of IRL friends and I have been doing a couple of yew bots just to fund out actual main accounts, and we found that we couldn't get the bots to last more than one or two days. I even started to go legit on a couple of accounts and play on shifts of around 6 hours a day with a very slightly 1 day longer range before a ban. I definitely don't think its the script maker's fault. Ineedbot has some of the most amazing scripts out there and I've tried upping the antiban as well. Even the ban rates on Tribot, which has "human-like mouse movements" and "Anti Ban Compliance Levels" are still remarkably high. However, in RS3 in which it appears that Treasure Hunter and Solomon Store are the biggest money makers, have a declining population, and a worthless in-game currency, ban rates are almost nonexistent because its the only way to slow down the game's death (other than to scrap dead content and such). The only ban I've had was on an account that had a microing minor offence already recorded.

    And just to give those who only bot RS3 a perspective, a f2p account with around 65 wc'ing can cut around 130-150 yew logs (dependent on world population and other factors of course) an hour which is roughly around 450-520k an hour RS3. If it gets banned? Just make another one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KeepBotting View Post
    I believe that when RS dies, the private server community will explode. There's literally thousands of server bases out there, some poorly coded and some professionally ...

    There will always be people who want to play RS (no matter how crappy it becomes).
    So when Jagex finally rolls over and dies, I'd imagine a lot of them will pick up where people like Graham, Delta_, Sanity, winterlove, Scully, Miss Silabsoft, and moparisthebest left off.
    And Wolf with his Porject16 and/or Flight (Flight was my latest creation, where this name came from). Although I still have all the old P16 & Flight bases (some never released) I would probably start from scratch, no longer working with the Whitefang-style server but packaged projects as how RSC servers were designed.

    Current project:
    [AIO Fisher]

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nice Balance Bro View Post
    There has been talk of T95 weps coming out so I'd put T90s crashing due to that speculation.
    I would agree if the t95 weps weren't said to require t90s to make them anyway in the same announcement iirc, so I believe that either the RS community is derping or there is another real cause (haven't seen much change other than a rise in bots which is why I suggested it).

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    Quote Originally Posted by yourule97 View Post
    Ineedbot has some of the most amazing scripts out there and I've tried upping the antiban as well.

    And just to give those who only bot RS3 a perspective, a f2p account with around 65 wc'ing can cut around 130-150 yew logs (dependent on world population and other factors of course) an hour which is roughly around 450-520k an hour RS3. If it gets banned? Just make another one.
    Got banned within 30 mins using his fisher.Whats the point of antiban if mainloop is bottish? I mean clicking fishing spots without mistakening with other ones, in my case sharks vs swordfishs and it managed to click like 10 times in a row correct spot from the fishing guild bank through wall, that was the case. I can bet that type of scripts would be banned within a day or two in rs3 before, like month ago too. Not to mention static waits, no failsafe if banking fails, ridiculous mainloop configuration taking away 100% CPU while fishing . Who the hell closes bank before clicking on minimap? Logical hits everywhere: Toomuch standing, toofast reacting, static camera,deck changing(Do you know how we used to distinquish bots in real 2007? By watching them changing docs when there was no reason. Thats eazy way to get reported). Thats flaws who few combined together could have been critical to get banned.

    Tooked his script as learning one, cause shifting to osrs.

    Point is jagex cant ban you if they havent proof. Proof is statistical data. Or smart/simba is detectable, but if it would then accounts would get banned instantly. Iv trained on that acc 76 fishing by hand in smart browser so doubt that.

    Talking about rs3, yesterday some areas have clearly been hit by a banwave. But still most bots i used to spot 2 months ago were bellow 70 for example now above 90. Average lifespan increased drasticly. Got few of my bots in quarantine as they were stuck in different places, some like 2+weeks after being stuck for up to 10 hours in a 200ms loop no bans yet.

    And seems you havent played rs3 for a long time, yews are actually around 50-100k per hour NOBODY cares about them.

    Talking about rs3 economy. I think those updates like t95 weapons are just a desperate updates to make player base busy, more like overloaded. Lately so much high lvl mobs released, nobody really got yet borred of them or prices stabilized and they releasing new ones... thats illogical cause it will hit recent moneymaking methods for most of population. Currencly is devalvating rapidly. During year bond rised like 2,5 times. Jagex has no idea how to fix economy and there is no real money sinks in game at all. Skilling is only needed for max cape. Because for exampe why would i chop yews to get 200 logs per hour when i can go dks and get 700-1k per hour yews + other loot, and combat xp? Another desperate move is divination. Divination locations, automatic banking with porters. It kills proffit from skilling. Jagex thought they very clever eliminating moneymaking so they can sell more gold for players but actually whats happening is skills and the whole game became pointless. Since the introduction of Nexus PVM became worthless. Why would i do Nexus nolife for like 4 months to get those sets just to do Nex with them? I dont want to do Nex i want armor, but its pointless to have it unless you do Nex(ofcourse could use elsewhere but proffit will be nonexistent cause of repair prices). Its like drinking for the sake of drinking. Does anyone drink vodka cause they thirsty? By that time i stopped playing rs because felt like whole game is pointless. It would havent been if wild would be alive. They eliminated pking as highest goal for all community and tried to change it to skilling as start was introduction of skillcapes, then lvl 120 capes and max capes. Jagex just thinks their customers are bunch of idiots who will do whatever jagex want them to do and will want whatever jagex want them to want. But they wrong, and they know it, but there is no way back, and thats why jagex is doing it differently in osrs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmasjdz View Post
    Got banned within 30 mins using his fisher.Whats the point of antiban if mainloop is bottish? I mean clicking fishing spots without mistakening with other ones, in my case sharks vs swordfishs and it managed to click like 10 times in a row correct spot from the fishing guild bank through wall, that was the case. I can bet that type of scripts would be banned within a day or two in rs3 before, like month ago too. Not to mention static waits, no failsafe if banking fails, ridiculous mainloop configuration taking away 100% CPU while fishing . Who the hell closes bank before clicking on minimap? Logical hits everywhere: Toomuch standing, toofast reacting, static camera,deck changing(Do you know how we used to distinquish bots in real 2007? By watching them changing docs when there was no reason. Thats eazy way to get reported). Thats flaws who few combined together could have been critical to get banned.

    Tooked his script as learning one, cause shifting to osrs.

    Point is jagex cant ban you if they havent proof. Proof is statistical data. Or smart/simba is detectable, but if it would then accounts would get banned instantly. Iv trained on that acc 76 fishing by hand in smart browser so doubt that.

    Talking about rs3, yesterday some areas have clearly been hit by a banwave. But still most bots i used to spot 2 months ago were bellow 70 for example now above 90. Average lifespan increased drasticly. Got few of my bots in quarantine as they were stuck in different places, some like 2+weeks after being stuck for up to 10 hours in a 200ms loop no bans yet.

    And seems you havent played rs3 for a long time, yews are actually around 50-100k per hour NOBODY cares about them.

    Talking about rs3 economy. I think those updates like t95 weapons are just a desperate updates to make player base busy, more like overloaded. Lately so much high lvl mobs released, nobody really got yet borred of them or prices stabilized and they releasing new ones... thats illogical cause it will hit recent moneymaking methods for most of population. Currencly is devalvating rapidly. During year bond rised like 2,5 times. Jagex has no idea how to fix economy and there is no real money sinks in game at all. Skilling is only needed for max cape. Because for exampe why would i chop yews to get 200 logs per hour when i can go dks and get 700-1k per hour yews + other loot, and combat xp? Another desperate move is divination. Divination locations, automatic banking with porters. It kills proffit from skilling. Jagex thought they very clever eliminating moneymaking so they can sell more gold for players but actually whats happening is skills and the whole game became pointless. Since the introduction of Nexus PVM became worthless. Why would i do Nexus nolife for like 4 months to get those sets just to do Nex with them? I dont want to do Nex i want armor, but its pointless to have it unless you do Nex(ofcourse could use elsewhere but proffit will be nonexistent cause of repair prices). Its like drinking for the sake of drinking. Does anyone drink vodka cause they thirsty? By that time i stopped playing rs because felt like whole game is pointless. It would havent been if wild would be alive. They eliminated pking as highest goal for all community and tried to change it to skilling as start was introduction of skillcapes, then lvl 120 capes and max capes. Jagex just thinks their customers are bunch of idiots who will do whatever jagex want them to do and will want whatever jagex want them to want. But they wrong, and they know it, but there is no way back, and thats why jagex is doing it differently in osrs.
    I don't find his mainloop too bottish, perhaps you are used to a higher standard of bot than I am, but compared to what I was using pre-simba it's extremely unbottish. As for the average lifespan of bots, I definitely agree- Jagex has gotten cocky thinking that their new detection is stopping all the bots; much to our benefit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmasjdz View Post
    Got banned within 30 mins using his fisher.Whats the point of antiban if mainloop is bottish? I mean clicking fishing spots without mistakening with other ones, in my case sharks vs swordfishs and it managed to click like 10 times in a row correct spot from the fishing guild bank through wall, that was the case. I can bet that type of scripts would be banned within a day or two in rs3 before, like month ago too. Not to mention static waits, no failsafe if banking fails, ridiculous mainloop configuration taking away 100% CPU while fishing . Who the hell closes bank before clicking on minimap? Logical hits everywhere: Toomuch standing, toofast reacting, static camera,deck changing(Do you know how we used to distinquish bots in real 2007? By watching them changing docs when there was no reason. Thats eazy way to get reported). Thats flaws who few combined together could have been critical to get banned.
    Then why did you continue to use it if you weren't happy with how it was performing? No one forced you to use it. Instead of posting here about how it think it's so bot like, have you PM'd him or posted on his thread giving him some tips on how to improve his script?
    <3

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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich View Post
    Then why did you continue to use it if you weren't happy with how it was performing? No one forced you to use it. Instead of posting here about how it think it's so bot like, have you PM'd him or posted on his thread giving him some tips on how to improve his script?
    First of all as i said was new to osrs botting, was looking how it works while running, basicly attention was drawed to the lines. Seen its behaviour not exactly what i expected but usually it takes few days of that type botting to get banned, and as i do test runs they sometimes are just tragic but short runs no matter how you fail mosly doesnt get you banned. Secondly was curious what else ill see, curiousity got me there. I am totally guilty for the account i lost as it was my decision to continue even if i wasnt feeling safe. Had no intention to trash script, but instead point out where might be flaws which gets jagex attention, because dont think jagex bans without strong proof most of the time.

    As for suggestions its very hard to suggest for aio type script, since it uses same mainloop and same functions for all locations. It happens like if it works everywhere it doesnt work pefectly anywhere. So in some places it might be great and in some bot-like like in fish guild and basicly its nearly imposible to change without rewriting most of functions. Will defitinely share banking routine if ill manage to write one, as i think humanlike bot should grab bankbooth and fish spots while running. Very new to osrs so might take a while.

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    Quote Originally Posted by J_R View Post
    I would agree if the t95 weps weren't said to require t90s to make them anyway in the same announcement iirc, so I believe that either the RS community is derping or there is another real cause (haven't seen much change other than a rise in bots which is why I suggested it).
    So more bots is reducing the price of T90s? The only way I'd see that happening is if there was a script for KK. The only way a price goes down is either increased supply or decreased demand. So I'd say in this instance it's as a consequence of T95s being released so people don't want to invest in T90s.

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