I don't believe that's considered leaking because everything is already open-source. While selling scripts on the side has apparently been quite the controversy to some and yes I do understand their point of view, at the same time it can't honestly be the first time that members have sold scripts that they wrote or received payment for something they spent time on. Yeah they have a website but from what I could tell it's not the "OGLib Team" that has been advertising that site it's been those complaining about it. I honestly never knew it existed until someone else mentioned it and I've been using OGL well pretty much a month after I started here.
Straight off the rules thread, "Any users caught leaking information or scripts from their respective sections will be immediately de-ranked. The user will be given an opportunity to defend themselves and dispute the allegations."
And there goes one of the reasons SRL is still as active as it is today. You'll be missed, Mayor.
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In my opinion this whole situation is bizarre that it turned out this way. I would've imagined that Mayor would've been given a chance to explain himself before any demotion had been done. Sad business.
There used to be something meaningful here.
Well that very well could've been an option but I agree with the way the admins handled it, they followed the procedure that they put in place for situations like this and didn't try making a "workaround" due to someones status. This all escalated even further because this thread got created prior to The Mayor being able to state anything. Nobody was stopping him from stating the reasons or story behind it. Instead we got a thread where everyone began jumping to conclusions and started flaming the admins. Why it got opened again is beyond me.
this would've been the correct aproach. Besides, was the "leak" so important?? its not like he leaked something of VITAL importance to the community, it was just a post about clarity's opinion.
To the people that say that he still can do stuff, and allegate, and all that. If i were in his place, i wouldn't do it either, i would've felt so betrayed and stabbed in the back, that i would've just left and said fu*k it, fuc* everyone.
The mayor is one of the biggest members of this community, acting like this towards him is RIDICULOUS. I believe even though he "leaked" something, and if he were fully guilty of that, they shouldn't had taken away his github. That was the worst.
Formerly known as Undorak7
I've said multiple times why I started writing my own include. SRL-GLX was slow. Incredibly so. Things like getting bank information called glxTextures() multiple times in a single call. No one can argue that the speeds and reliability of SRL-GLX are at all comparable to ogLib.The second question many people had (which is actually irrelevant seeing as the first question went unanswered) was why he started developing his own include, when SRL-GLX already existed, and although basic, was largely still functional.
As many of others have pointed out, we're not the only one selling scripts. Sure, we do it on a bigger scale, but several other people take to Sythe and other sites. You can't cherry-pick who you'd like to go after. If one are guilty, then all are guilty.We have to remember that Team ogLib are not only selling scripts that use ogLib, but these scripts also require Simba, SMART, the OpenGL plugins, and the lape language, all of which have been developed, tested and refined by this community since 2006.
This was the confusing part. He sent me the post. We weren't arguing. The messages directly before were him asking me for my opinion on VPS. In fact, he and I still haven't argued or bickered once over Skype. We were very much on good terms when he sent me:He ended up getting into an argument with Obscurity and Lucidity which caused him to post the screenshot I showed him.
[2015-07-13 5:02:15 PM] Josh Jones: Yo man
[2015-07-13 5:03:12 PM] Obscurity: Heya
[2015-07-13 5:05:22 PM] Josh Jones: Do you know a good vps trail?
[2015-07-13 5:06:42 PM] Josh Jones: Or vps service?
[2015-07-13 5:06:50 PM] Josh Jones: There are so many options
[2015-07-15 6:41:18 AM] Josh Jones: Obs
[2015-07-15 6:57:50 AM] Josh Jones: Clarity must be a good friend
[2015-07-15 6:58:46 AM] Josh Jones: http://puu.sh/*****/**********.png
[2015-07-15 3:54:41 PM] Obscurity: Sorry mate - have been tied down with work. :P
[2015-07-15 3:54:55 PM] Obscurity: I couldn't think of any good services - could ask around to a few clients though?
[2015-07-15 3:58:19 PM] Obscurity: Also, what is that post in regards to? I just don't find anything related on the forums. :P
You failed to mention that I also brought up that I rarely use ogLib in scripts that I sell. They consist of the same (funcPointer+36)^ stuff you see in the include. Why? Because it's fast.Obscurity soon showed up, and because I have very strong opinions about this, it turned into a heated debate. Obscurity was essentially saying that he wrote ogLib so it was his right to sell scripts. I did not agree, because he wasn’t only selling treasures that had been developed, tested, and refined by this community since 2006. Could this be one reason why he never even attempted to resume SRL-GLX development? Did he want to have ‘rights’ to something he could sell?
And please, don't make it seem like I was spewing angry messages in retaliation during this "heated debate". My messages were very calm and not at all heated, as was I. Not once did I name-call, tell anyone to crawl back into their hole, etc. But, the same can't be said for the other party involved, can it? The total number of my responses, before you went to bed, could likely be counted on one hand, but here's my heated responses:
[7/16/2015 4:02:03 PM] Axel "Zyt3x" Selmer-Anderssen: the rules has always been "You are allowed to do whatever, but if you monetize, don't advertise on the forums"
[7/16/2015 4:02:05 PM] Ian - BMWxi: But from the sounds of it that's not something they want to do.
[7/16/2015 4:02:12 PM] [SRL] The Mayor: I mean, Lucidits divination script thread links directly to a frickin script selling site ffs
[7/16/2015 4:02:20 PM] Axel "Zyt3x" Selmer-Anderssen: link?
[7/16/2015 4:02:22 PM] Obscurity:
[Thursday, July 16, 2015 4:00 PM] [SRL] The Mayor:
<<< and TBH, Obs personality and attitude made this whole thing 10k times worse for me
After hearing nothing but complaining about funcfuncfunc, and indentation, and standards, about a ~10K line include to make things easier etc. I don't really keep your feelings in the highest of priorities.
[7/16/2015 4:02:35 PM | Edited 4:02:42 PM] Obscurity: Nor anyone else's.
[7/16/2015 4:02:47 PM] [SRL] The Mayor: ^ and that's wht im talking about
[7/16/2015 4:02:52 PM] Axel "Zyt3x" Selmer-Anderssen: ?
[7/16/2015 4:02:53 PM] [SRL] The Mayor: go back in your hole m8
[7/16/2015 4:03:06 PM] Axel "Zyt3x" Selmer-Anderssen: him answering you in a mature way is somehow a negative thing?
[7/16/2015 4:03:09 PM] Obscurity: The include works. It's fast. It's efficient. Get over the indentation, the var names, etc
[7/16/2015 4:03:38 PM] Axel "Zyt3x" Selmer-Anderssen: Your vision is clouded by your anger, mayor :/
[7/16/2015 4:03:56 PM] [SRL] The Mayor: http://puu.sh/j1Hkg/c25cd969de.png
[7/16/2015 4:03:59 PM] [SRL] The Mayor: I know it is
[7/16/2015 4:04:03 PM] [SRL] The Mayor: Doesn't change anything
[7/16/2015 4:04:16 PM] [SRL] The Mayor: People like Obs are not welcome in a community like SRL
[7/16/2015 4:04:24 PM] Fitta ?: Mayor, you're taking it a bit too personal, just relax
[7/16/2015 4:04:33 PM] Fitta ?: Well then I guess I'm not welcome
[7/16/2015 4:04:36 PM] Fitta ?: or NKN
[7/16/2015 4:04:42 PM] Obscurity: ogLib helps people. It makes coding with OpenGL incredibly easy. Yet I get the occasional thank-you on the thread. 99% of feedback can't get past the way it "looks"
[7/16/2015 4:05:21 PM] [SRL] The Mayor: and that has nothing to do with ogLib itself, that is because of you, your personality
[2015-07-15 6:44:22 PM] Obscurity: We're not selling Simba, nor are we selling SMART. Those are publicly available. We're selling our scripts and our time writing them.
[2015-07-15 6:44:58 PM] Olly: you're still a scum - quote from bland
[2015-07-15 6:45:21 PM] [SRL] The Mayor: See what bland thinks of you
[2015-07-15 6:45:24 PM] Olly: well
[2015-07-15 6:45:27 PM] Olly: anyone, lol
[2015-07-15 6:45:44 PM] Obscurity: I'm obviously terribly bothered by what people think of me
[2015-07-15 6:46:11 PM] Kasi Reddy: selling leaked script
[2015-07-15 6:46:15 PM] Kasi Reddy: 15$
[2015-07-15 6:46:40 PM] Obscurity: I was asked to sell someone else script. I decline.
[2015-07-15 6:47:47 PM] Olly: but in general on profiting on open source program you're a scum
[2015-07-15 6:48:00 PM] [SRL] The Mayor: which is still valid here
[2015-07-15 6:49:10 PM | Edited 6:49:22 PM] Obscurity: Sooo everyone who sells on Sythe is also scum? You've got a long list of SRL/SSRL to also dig at
[2015-07-15 6:51:27 PM | Edited 6:51:38 PM] Olly: nobody said he/she/they/whoever was doing anything against the rules
[2015-07-15 6:51:42 PM] Justin: oglib team*
[2015-07-15 6:52:06 PM] Obscurity: We're just immoral rapists for it, Justin. :P.
[2015-07-15 6:52:47 PM] [SRL] The Mayor: so change a few words around in ogLib and then sell it?
[2015-07-15 6:52:49 PM] [SRL] The Mayor: http://puu.sh/j0E0b/b2827b03cd.jpg
[2015-07-15 6:53:14 PM] [SRL] The Mayor: http://puu.sh/j0E29/71f6bdc9d8.jpg
[2015-07-15 6:53:17 PM] [SRL] The Mayor: ^
[2015-07-15 6:53:31 PM] Obscurity: Ah, so you're the one leaking SSRL pictures to Josh? :P
[2015-07-15 6:53:43 PM] [SRL] The Mayor: Yes
Again, you make it seem like, during this "heated debate", I was desperately grabbing at straws. Despite the chaotic scene that you paint it to be, for those curious, it was a bit more like:Anyway, at some point during this discussion, Obscurity threw in the ‘MAYOR LEAKED’ card.
[2015-07-15 6:52:47 PM] [SRL] The Mayor: so change a few words around in ogLib and then sell it?
[2015-07-15 6:52:49 PM] [SRL] The Mayor: http://puu.sh/j0E0b/b2827b03cd.jpg
[2015-07-15 6:53:14 PM] [SRL] The Mayor: http://puu.sh/j0E29/71f6bdc9d8.jpg
[2015-07-15 6:53:17 PM] [SRL] The Mayor: ^
[2015-07-15 6:53:31 PM] Obscurity: Ah, so you're the one leaking SSRL pictures to Josh? :P
[2015-07-15 6:54:40 PM] Obscurity: Because I was sent an SSRL screen from the same person whom I said that quote to
Stabs? I was continually seeing claims of an "accidental" leak. I simply questioned how that was possible. Call that a stab though, if you wish. It'll play very well with the, "This is all ogLib's fault".I was not surprised to see Obscurity and Lucidity getting in a few last stabs while I wasn’t around. Even attacking, jonesy259 who simply got caught up in all of this without knowing any better.
However, moving on to Jonesy. Don't play him to be an innocent victim who "didn't know any better. Just to show one example:
[3:22:40 PM] Josh Jones: Poor lucid
[3:22:50 PM] Josh Jones: Must be annoying being stuck at jr member hey
[3:23:18 PM] Josh Jones: And you know what?
[3:23:26 PM] Lucidity: Aren't you a jr member yourself? Lol?
[3:23:31 PM] Josh Jones: This include can actually log in your player....
Please, continue to paint us as the bad-guys that got you demoted. It works, evidently:
I struck my wife, but she pissed me off, so it's her fault. Wouldn't have happened if she'd shut her trap.[12:06:26 PM] elfyyy: https://villavu.com/forum/showthread...75#post1351675
[12:06:34 PM] elfyyy: I hope OGL was worth it kiddies
[1:38:36 PM] elfyyy: Well basically now it seems that ogl is here to stay while mayor is gone.. So there's that
[1:38:50 PM] Obscurity: Aaand it's OGL's fault.
[1:38:56 PM | Edited 1:39:03 PM] Obscurity: ^ Don't forget that part.
[1:39:47 PM] elfyyy: Would this have happened or would it not have happened had oglib.org not been started?
[1:40:01 PM] Obscurity: Oh please.
Despite this hate you seem to have toward myself and the ogLib team, I was rather upset when I heard rumors that you were leaving. Hell, I even voiced that to Clarity early Friday. Good luck with your future endeavors.
Last edited by Obscurity; 07-19-2015 at 07:52 PM.
I think you're missing the part where mayor got demoted / had his git access revoked before he had a chance to state anything; before the thread was created. In simple terms, as mayor already stated...he got demoted/restricted without having a chance to explain. This was way before the thread was created. Did you read mayor's post? Heck did you even read the thread title? How can anyone with half a brain think that daniel handled this perfectly / well? It was bad. Its bad enough that people go bitching to an un-active admin who quite clearly makes decisions based on impulse.
#DanielForRashDecisionMakerTitle
#DanielForDemotion
Reading all the drama makes me sad. Once again we see that trying to make money off/from/using SRL is a bad ideaâ„¢. I presume we still have anti advertising rules?
I recommend everybody to calm down. Perhaps a decision was made too fast, but said decision can always be reverted, if necessary. I'm going to dive into this a bit, hopefully without stepping on people's toes, mostly because I have not been active at all. In the end we all profit from staying friendly and civil.
The Mayor: Please do stay around meanwhile. You are and have been a great addition to our forums.
Last edited by Wizzup?; 07-19-2015 at 08:27 PM.
The best way to contact me is by email, which you can find on my website: http://wizzup.org
I also get email notifications of private messages, though.
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The best way to contact me is by email, which you can find on my website: http://wizzup.org
I also get email notifications of private messages, though.
Simba (on Twitter | Group on Villavu | Website | Stable/Unstable releases
Documentation | Source | Simba Bug Tracker on Github and Villavu )
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Went ahead and modified it so you didn't have any troubles reading.Leaking:
Any users caught leaking information or scripts from their respective sections will be immediately de-ranked. The user will be given an opportunity to defend themselves and dispute the allegations.
Last edited by Clutch; 07-19-2015 at 09:00 PM.
For what is worth, selling anything that includes Simba and SMART requires people to abide to the GPL license. Even if you don't change the code, you still have to respond to requests for source code access, to written letters, and you must send *CDROM*s with source code of said programs. There's actually a lot more, but I don't want to dive into that now.
EDIT: Changed requires to includes
Last edited by Wizzup?; 07-19-2015 at 08:32 PM.
The best way to contact me is by email, which you can find on my website: http://wizzup.org
I also get email notifications of private messages, though.
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The point of this rule is because if someone is leaking SSRL things, you should demote them to prevent them from accessing more SSRL stuff to leak during an investigation. If they didn't leak something then they can get their status back. Better than having an angry member with access to more secret information to leak.
E: Seemed very obvious to me but other members seem to have jumped straight to "THE ADMIN DO STUPID THINGS WITH NO REASON" so...
I don't know that anyone is selling SMART/Simba but instead the actual code they wrote that uses Simba. Edit: I guess the way I see it is like this. You have a software company that requires other products to work properly. They don't provide the source for said requirements - they provide the service they are selling. In this case people sell the code of their scripts. Which back to requirements - requires simba/smart.
Edit: @3Garrett3; that's what I was trying to get across. Thanks hopefully that helps the others understand as well. (might've got 2 notifications) same response just moved it to this post instead.
Last edited by Clutch; 07-19-2015 at 09:10 PM.
Why don't we just have a dictatorship and then ban all script sales on or off site. Then we can all have cookies and make fun of furrykittens on irc.
#slack4admin2016
<slacky> I will build a wall
<slacky> I will ban reflection and OGL hooking until we know what the hell is going on
I understand the point you are trying to get across. I have read the rules, and know exactly what your talking about. The thing is, The Mayor is quite a big member on this forum, his contributions are very big, I'm sure many of us would not be here without him. He should get special consideration on a case like this. The leaking rule was more on the side that people when people leak higher up scripts, they get demoted. The mayor simply leaked a post. A single post.
Why join the navy if you can be a pirate? -Steve Jobs
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