Not at all. I was simply demonstrating that there is a distinct difference between Lifetime VIP and the other subscriptions, and that purchasing VIP has perks other than access to beta. A lot of people actually paid for VIP before RiD decided beta access would be given to VIP first.
Essentially a big difference is the distribution of responsibilities, and with that, both RiD and the users benefit.
Old System:
RiD:
Maintaining core platform
Reading through all error logs for 17 bots
Coming up with fixes for 17 bots
Developing new bots
Maintaining 17 bots in the event of GFX or game mechanic changes
Add new features/functionality to existing bots
(Long story short, literally everything other than submitting bug reports)
Users:
Submitting bug reports
Genesis:
RiD:
Maintaining the Core Platform (from error logs)
Adding functionality/capabilities to Core Platform
Read error logs for core functionality bugs
Users:
Submit bug reports for core functionality bugs
Make new bots
Maintain new bots (by redoing calibration sessions as necessary)
Add new functionality to existing bots
I may be missing some here or there but I think you get the point. Basically, this shifts a lot of the responsibilities from RiD to the users. Now, the benefit of this is that RiD has more time to focus on expanding the core platform, and it also means that users have more flexibility: it means that for 99% of issues, they don't have to wait for RiD to push an update and instead can fix it themselves; it means that they are not limited by RiD in terms of what they can bot, as they can make bots for whatever they want, only limited by the functionality of the core platform, which isn't as big of a deal since RiD will have more time to focus on that; it means that users can update their bots themselves in the event of a GFX update or changes to the game itself that they would otherwise have to wait on RiD for; it means that users are not tied down to specific games or versions of RS, so if they want to use it on other games, or versions of RS (such as Deadman Mode, DarkScape, RS Classic, or even private servers), they can; it means that users have the freedom to add features to their bots at their will, rather than hoping RiD does; it means that if a user has a preferred training style they can do that, instead of using what RiD provides; and I'm sure there are other things but I think you get the point.
Expanding to other games wouldn't require micromanaging because all RiD has to do is make Genesis generic enough to allow users to use it on other games. Since he has more time to focus on core functionality, this isn't much of issue. The old system used to be individual downloads for every bot. That was moved to one download that provided access to every bot. With Genesis, while presets of all of the previous bots will be included automatically, users will still need to recalibrate them before they use them. This also applies to bots that users have shared among themselves. So, most users will be better off creating their own bots instead. So, it may be better for users to focus on sharing training methods than actual bot presets. All bots would be chosen from a simple dropdown menu.
Beta started on December 6th, so only 3 and a half weeks has gone by. In the beginning, people were having issues even completing a calibration session, now, creating calibration sessions works very well for pretty much everybody, and the only issues now are at run-time. We're at v0.27 now, and while some people are having issues getting it started (I think it's caused by a memory leak in the current version, so I don't see that being a problem for long, once RiD comes back from vacation), some users are able to bot for over 12 hours straight. I don't think it will be long before everyone doing testing is able to do the same.
I've covered a few of the differences above. While yes, 2 years of downtime is an extremely heavy cost, the more time that passes after full release, the less relevant that cost becomes. Eventually that cost will only exist in terms of people conversing about the downtime, and it will carry no other weight by then.
What I am doing is, by definition, discussion. To give you a scenario, if a thread existed discussing Simba on RiD (let's pretend that's allowed for this example), and everyone involved in the discussion was from RiD and had little to no knowledge/experience about Simba, that discussion wouldn't really make sense, it would be filled with inaccuracies and bias. You guys have seen that when you try to talk to many members there about Simba. The same would apply here if no one from RiD made their comments. Yes, many people here have programming knowledge, but that doesn't automatically grant them knowledge of how Genesis works or its progress, or the reasons behind its design and pricing model. Even some reputable users here with much knowledge have shown to have a misunderstanding about certain things regarding Genesis, and people like Aufi and I are some of the few that are able to explain things. We can't expect people from one community to automatically have a correct understanding of a product (let alone one whose development is mostly behind-the-scenes) from another community. This applies RiD -> Villavu and Villavu -> RiD.
Simply because rules are rules. If Villavu disallowed such threads then this thread wouldn't be here. Can't really compare the outcome of the same behavior on two websites with different policies.
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Anyway, this thread is drifting off topic. Let's not drift into a ditch now. If you have a personal problem with me, my Skype is openly available. I don't think this thread is the place for personal attacks.
@Harrier; I'd appreciate if you didn't compare my posts to Trent's. Thanks
Last time I checked we don't have anything against discussing other bots, as long as it's not directly advertising.
Stuff that goes like 'What are your thoughts on Simba?' would be fine by me.
Lol.
It wouldn't, it's just that 90% of the user interaction all happens in the Chatbox on RiD. It's the core of the community, it's where pretty much all discussion happens. I've talked about my private script projects or even my public scripts made with Simba plenty of times in the Chatbox. The only time I've seen Mods delete Bot Discussions is when it turns into an advertisement, which is against the rules.
Villavu/Simba has been discussed in the Chatbox quite a bit.
Advertising would probably be a ban/deleted thread, suggesting isn't an issue. I suggest Simba all the time in the Chatbox, while RiD's been down the past 2 years I've now learned Pascal/Lape and Java, and I've created something like 15-20 private scripts, that if I kept going with them I probably would have a near-maxed main.
Several RiD users have come over to Villavu and started learning, Clarity's one of'em. I believe Solar is also here, and Aufi has tried learning.
I really don't see a problem with this thread, even if the discussion just keeps going in circles. There's no advertising going on. Who cares if arguments are being repeated?
New to scripting? Procedures & Functions for Beginners
Do you use your computer at night? Just get f.lux
i got problem with this version
Trent, I've seen you around for years and years advertising this. I've used RiD in the past, and it was O.K. I even purchased credits at one point. About a week later, he took the bots down and started talking about "A complete revamp!".
You posted on another forum(in the official RiD thread which is NOW CLOSED) "As you all may know, the opportunity to purchase unlimited/lifetime doesn't come around that often."
You're a salesman. That's it.
Basically, a paid SHILL.
Genesis has been in-development for FAR too long. I can't believe anyone could even take it seriously.
I could write a GUI that exit's when I click start and play the game too! If I record it, does that make it "proof" that I've written some 'awesome' bot?
I know that isn't the case, but with what I've seen and heard of the testers - it's buggy, it's hard to make work, and wouldn't be capable of doing MTA as is(You know, RiD got big on his 'MTA' bot).
I feel bad for anyone still buying into this.
1. I've already spoken with Sythe staff regarding that thread, and it will be reopened in the near future.
2. I don't get paid, or receive anything for what I do. That's called faith in a product. Nice assumption though.
3. What you've heard from testers is of v0.28 or before. Of course a project this complex is gonna have bugs in the beginning. That's the whole point of beta testing, to fix these bugs. Given the fact that some users are already botting over 12 hours a day, it's clear that eventually this will be normal for everyone testing. The functionality we see in testing right now is not the extent of what it will be able to do. There's different stages of testing, each stage focuses on specific aspects of functionality before expanding testing to other functionality. Doesn't really make sense to judge an unfinished product the way you'd judge a finished one.
1. If its true that the current functionality is not the extent of what it can do now then perhaps it'd be a good idea to release a video/demo from RiD of what it can do (preferably something complex like the MTA, maybe a boss fight, or dungeoneering if at all possible) when you've set it up right. Would definitely be a pretty large PR boost even if many people think that it isn't real / simba in disguise / RiD playing the game instead of the bot. Would definitely make for more interesting discussion.
2. I think much of the frustration comes from the fact that after several years, the product is still not even close to finished (at least from all the posts here and there that I've seen). If all the bot is capable of at the moment is what it can currently do, then it makes perfect sense to be angry as I know I'd be really pissed if someone took 3+ years to release a buggy, hard to use ghost mouse...
You've missed the entire point of my post, m8.
Do you understand how much time has been put into a project that is nothing more than a buggy color clicker?
I can understand "faith" in a product, but you really aren't fooling anyone - you were posting the same threads about RiD pre-2009.
I wonder, did he take 2 years or better making the first MTA bots?
An unfinished product is a product that doesn't exist. Maybe he shouldn't have spent a year and a half writing the GUI.
I mean, shit, when somehow updating people on the progress of the bot gets delayed, why should any sane/rational individual believe the same won't happen with the actual product?
Just curious, do you get paid PER post? or is it more of like a, "how many active threads can I post in?" or more of a referral basis?
Last edited by Dead_Photos; 01-04-2016 at 09:41 AM.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the "Core" of the new system will have the 17 different bots in it? How's that any different than it is now? The "Core" isn't just going to know what to do, it has to be told. Which, means a bot has to be written. When a bug is reported for a bot, the "Core" will have to be updated for that bot. Sure, the "Core" can hold a lot of common used things, however, it's not any different than what RiD is now. Instead of keeping things modular, the creator is putting it in one big system which means it can break more easily due to the massive size. I am still not seeing the pro of the change, in my opinion.
Away for awhile, life is keeping me busy. | Want to get my attention in a thread? @Kyle Undefined; me.
{ MSI Phoenix || SRL Stats Sigs || Paste || Scripts || Quotes || Graphics }
When posting a bug, please post debug! Help us, help you!
I would love to change the world, but they won't give me the source code. || To be the best, you've got to beat the rest. || Logic never changes, just the syntax.
If you PM me with a stupid question or one listed in FAQ, or about a script that is not mine, I will NOT respond.
SRL is a Library of routines made by the SRL community written for the Program Simba. We produce Scripts for the game Runescape.
No, the core doesn't have any 'bots in it'. It is basically an engine where you can record yourself play, from which a script will be generated behind the scenes. This script will be your own customized script that is unique to your play style. The idea is that this will avoid Jagex's bot detection algorithms because you are using a bot that no one else has. It is essentially an advanced mouse recorder, except it won't be as blind; it will probably record/create bitmaps/dtms of click locations, and identify responses to clicks (i.e. interface opening), and piece them all together sequentially into a script. This means users can create any script they like, and RiD will only have to maintain the core that generates the scripts.
RiD has been planning to release a video just prior or at release since the beginning. Assuming everything goes as planned, this will happen given time. Personally I've shown some people I know who play Runescape, and some who don't, watch some footage of it in its current stage and they thought I was just showing them play footage until I told them what they were looking at. Things will only improve from our current position. I can understand frustration with such a long development cycle, and honestly I don't really have an explanation as to why it's taken as long as it has, and I myself have experienced frustrations. At this point though, since beta is underway, I'm more focused on the here and now, and hoping this likens to some of Valve's examples of Valve Time.
I understand the time the project is taking, but that's not my focus. I'm focused instead on what we have now and where it is going. People can bring up this fact all they want, but the more time passes after release the more irrelevant it becomes.
Again, quite an assumption, because I wasn't even in the botting scene by 2009.
Idk how long the first version took him, but I know that when he made the leap from MTA 2 to MTA 4, everything was down for about 8 months. RiD has always had a history of taking massive amounts of time to complete things and being bad at estimations, which is one of the reasons why this delay with Genesis doesn't phase me as much as it does others. There's a reason people commonly say RiD uses Valve Time.
RiD does not have any form of referral system (not since 2010 or 2011), and as I said before, I don't get paid anything, and you're really proving what they say about ass|u|me because you repeated the same assumption even after I corrected it.
Not that far off from correct (@The Simba Noob). Now keep in mind that sequentially doesn't necessarily mean that it's the same exact process through every iteration. The GUI visually maps out the possible sequences, and things can go in a few different directions.
This thread is so active with so many different opinions; but because it simple exist at villavu, many here have strong connections to this community and simba. As a community we have yet to see any striking benefits from RID that is superior to any of the projects here.
I actually take my hat off too you @Trent!; as you are very diplomatic in your responses and i can understand why RID would want somebody like yourself doing the PR, I dam would! because you're good at it. (I have previously been very hostile towards your posts)
With all that aside can you please ASK RID for a ETA on this project as this will calm the nerves for most of the community here following RIDs updates to see if the HYPE meets the actually 'full-releases' ability; as most active members here have their own project rather than using somebody else's. (in most cases)
** My opinion is that Trent! even as an active part of RID, i don't think RID (who the hell is rid btw? a name? bob or john?) has provided you with a transparent look at what (s)he is doing nor his/her direction. No fault of your own, but jumping on a ship without knowing it direction can always be toxic. Such as some of the replies directed at you.
My stance is neutral on this project/thread; i see no reason for people making toxic posts, as i have done myself in the past. It benefits no one and seems to side track this thread and so many threads. There are actually a few gems in this thread. =[
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Please don't use the word toxic, you're gonna put me on tilt. That term doesn't even apply to the shtposts in this thread like mine. Toxic would be like saying that the bot is bad because RiD is a clown (or something more nefarious / irrelevant), not saying it's highly suspect based on reasonable/semi-reasonable assumptions based on what we have seen released.
I despise that term ever since it took ahold in the league of legends community.
Also @Trent!; I'd highly highly suggest that video sooner rather than later. Tbh, even if it's not like a youtube hit, as long as it shows the extent of what is possible when the stars are aligned correctly (theoretically if RiD is testing, over several years there's a pretty high chance at least one of the runs was impressive enough to vid... if not then there are obviously other issues...). You'd be surprised on how big of a morale boost it could be for pretty much no-very little effort.
I am not exactly sure with your reference to toxic? toxic by a quick google search can mean = very bad, unpleasant, or harmful.
This 'unpleasant or harmful' was the meaning i had intended for? As for league of legends or any other game for that matter.. i don't know the reference as i didn't have the opportunity to play games when i was younger and still have no desire now. This community is honestly the only community i have been or am apart of.
The fact that i can write a piece of code and test it live in-game is unique; compared to working on an assignment which is part of an education curriculum and is never seen again once marked.
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