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Thread: Mcdonalds protesters pushing for $15 an hour.

  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flight View Post
    ..

    This line:

    She gets paid the equivalent of $250 per month; it's considered a high-paying job.
    Invalidates most of what you're saying already though. You live in the Netherlands. If anyone in America can even live on 500 a month, you won't have homeless at all lol. Everyone would be rich. I'm surprised she can even get to work, buy a meal, pay for housing all with 250.

    IIRC, you live in the Netherlands? Something like that. The life there is completely different so no you cannot compare at all. Try 950+ for a basic apartment outside the city area, 3.00 for a bus ride, etc.. Won't even bother mentioning the price of a meal. I remember they charged me "Foreigner Gratitude" on my bill when I visited there(basically an automatic 15% tip if you have an accent + regular tip).

    Your 250 number simply shows the difference in culture/country. 10.50 Minimum in Canada and w/e around 8.00 minimum in America. Yet the currency here is pretty much the same as theirs and the cost of living is slightly higher than theirs for food and items but lower for housing.

    Have any of them spent 20 hours in a day disassembling an airplane, in the open on black asphalt at over 100 degrees? Have they ever removed 3 full-sized PT-6 jet engines from a 727 cargo plane in January, outside with ice rain?
    Yes I have and I'm pretty sure I know the difference between a McJob and a "high-paying" job.. Though that wasn't high-paying and our degrees here is Celsius and no I didn't have it in Ice-Rain. They have hangers though :S. Aeronautics engineering and Mech. engineering went hand in hand when I was looking for a Mech. job.. Its far better than working the fast food chain. I can definitely say that. Since I have had both jobs (not McJobs but close enough), my question to you is.. Have you had a McJob?
    Last edited by Brandon; 08-31-2013 at 09:55 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brandon View Post
    Invalidates most of what you're saying already though. You live in the Netherlands. If anyone in America can even live on 500 a month, you won't have homeless at all lol. Everyone would be rich. I'm surprised she can even get to work, buy a meal, pay for housing all with 250.
    The Netherlands is probably more expensive as the US. I think he lived in India.

    e:
    or was it Indonesia. Uhm that actually would matter a lot my memory so bad.
    Last edited by masterBB; 08-31-2013 at 10:19 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flight View Post
    Oi I can't agree with what a lot of you guys are saying. These people who work at an entry-level job are demanding a higher paygrade, one that is comparable to career that requires years spent in college. So then what's that say to the wiser people, those who went into college right after and spent years on the degrees to be able to have a stable, higher paying job, when they could have just taken the easy road and started flipping burgers for the same pay? So is this a reward the uneducated and devalue those who are? Clearly, only in the US...

    I don't think any of these kids know what it means to truly have a busy/stressful day at work. Your main argument here pertains to the verbal treatment of these employees; is this a joke? Wanting a raise because your feelings get hurt at a job that you signed up for and many people would fight for. Have any of them spent 20 hours in a day disassembling an airplane, in the open on black asphalt at over 100 degrees? Have they ever removed 3 full-sized PT-6 jet engines from a 727 cargo plane in January, outside with ice rain? Have you ever been sent to South Africa to piece together DC-3s night & day for 2 weeks? Well I have, and I did it all for slightly more than half of what these people are demanding in their raise.

    If you'd like I can compare their jobs to any given, normal or premium job in my country right now. A friend of mine works at a bank and she travels 65km to her office twice per day every day, and while they only work the standard 8-5 routine she also works on Saturday. She gets paid the equivalent of $250 per month; it's considered a high-paying job. Of that, can you imagine how much is left after paying for 2 buses back and fourth (4 total per day), 3 meals per day, and her house/water/electricity/phone? Also employees don't get paid here per week or 2 weeks, only per month, and every single business holds the same rule of your first month of work you will not be paid, simply because there are too many people who need a job they must filter out those who are skillful; like a required trial period.

    And the people who take orders or flip burgers are demanding a raise? To me this is a joke, they have NO IDEA what it's really like.
    I must say that I don't know how they do it in your country, but part of the issue in the US is the rising cost of schooling (I and my fellow classmates are over $80,000 in debt and only going into our junior year). When we get out of college the jobs that will be available for us will most likely be for about $10 an hour, which in your country might be a very high pay, but here in the US most of us would need to work 90 hours, untaxed, just to pay rent for a decent apartment, that's over two weeks of normal pay. Not to mention the fact that it will be ~$900 a month for school costs. We are already over the amount we would be making in a full month, but we still need to factor in food/water/healthcare/saving/ect. It's depressing that the pay grade of a CEO in the US might be $350,000+ with massive year end bonuses if the company does well, while the people actually doing work are receiving closer and closer to poverty level pay, even with college degrees. The idea here is not so much paying people more, but fully bringing up the standard of living and hopefully with that we can close up the massive disconnect that there has been between the top pay grade and the bottom pay grade.

    Federal Minimum wage in the US is 7.25 I believe. Most state pay that price for minimum wage, but some of them to pay higher, like I believe Connecticut pays slightly over $8.00 an hour for minimum wage. In both PA/NY where I live during the summer and then during the school year, minimum wage is $7.25 and I don't know anyone who can live on a single job. I barely make enough each week to pay for my gas, let alone food/drink and to pay down the massive debt caused by the American college system.
    Last edited by Hazzah; 08-31-2013 at 11:33 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hazzah View Post
    I must say that I don't know how they do it in your country, but part of the issue in the US is the rising cost of schooling (I and my fellow classmates are over $80,000 in debt and only going into our junior year). When we get out of college the jobs that will be available for us will most likely be for about $10 an hour, which in your country might be a very high pay, but here in the US most of us would need to work 90 hours, untaxed, just to pay rent for a decent apartment, that's over two weeks of normal pay. Not to mention the fact that it will be ~$900 a month for school costs. We are already over the amount we would be making in a full month, but we still need to factor in food/water/healthcare/saving/ect. It's depressing that the pay grade of a CEO in the US might be $350,000+ with massive year end bonuses if the company does well, while the people actually doing work are receiving closer and closer to poverty level pay, even with college degrees. The idea here is not so much paying people more, but fully bringing up the standard of living and hopefully with that we can close up the massive disconnect that there has been between the top pay grade and the bottom pay grade.

    Federal Minimum wage in the US is 7.25 I believe. Most state pay that price for minimum wage, but some of them to pay higher, like I believe Connecticut pays slightly over $8.00 an hour for minimum wage. In both PA/NY where I live during the summer and then during the school year, minimum wage is $7.25 and I don't know anyone who can live on a single job. I barely make enough each week to pay for my gas, let alone food/drink and to pay down the massive debt caused by the American college system.
    Is this minimum wage in America the same for everyone or does it increase by age? Here in The Netherlands the wage is going up and reaches it maximum at 23 years old: around 9€. At 15 you are going to be paid less than 3€. At the time you are 19 you might earn 5€ if you are lucky.

    It seems that getting a grade is really expensive in the US. I have to pay 1800€/year tuiton for four years and the total costs of books is around 800€ maybe. In total that makes around 8000€. And you can apply for study financing and if you get a grade you won't have to pay anything back. In total you can get around 4000€ from the government so the total cost would be 4000€ for getting a university grade.

    Some companies will also pay you during your internship so you can already earn some money. With a bit of luck around 300€/month for a few months.

    All in all it seems a lot better than the US. The downside? Once you start earning much you will pay 52% tax and that is how it gets funded.

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    Quote Originally Posted by J J View Post
    Is this minimum wage in America the same for everyone or does it increase by age? Here in The Netherlands the wage is going up and reaches it maximum at 23 years old: around 9€. At 15 you are going to be paid less than 3€. At the time you are 19 you might earn 5€ if you are lucky.

    It seems that getting a grade is really expensive in the US. I have to pay 1800€/year tuiton for four years and the total costs of books is around 800€ maybe. In total that makes around 8000€. And you can apply for study financing and if you get a grade you won't have to pay anything back. In total you can get around 4000€ from the government so the total cost would be 4000€ for getting a university grade.

    Some companies will also pay you during your internship so you can already earn some money. With a bit of luck around 300€/month for a few months.

    All in all it seems a lot better than the US. The downside? Once you start earning much you will pay 52% tax and that is how it gets funded.
    Minimum wage is the same, does not depend on age. School in the US for a decent state school is ~$35k/year for room+ board, + $1500 for books. I go to a private school, so it is a little more expensive. The taxes are the same for us, once you begin earning ~$50,000 a year the tax rate for a single male with no dependents is ~50%.

    E: 50,000 a year might seem like a lot, but considering 50% is taken straight away for taxes, then you have the cost of house (which in a big city might be 2500/month and in smaller cities/towns is ~900/month) plus the 15-20 years its going to take to pay off your school debt, people hardly earn anything extra and that's making a decent amount, now try to have anything on minimum wage.

    A small article about the subject.
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1783700.html
    Last edited by Hazzah; 08-31-2013 at 12:41 PM.

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    I'm not sure exactly where my comment stands in this arguement...

    My current job is on a farm. I make $11.06, the workload is absolutely ridiculus, and I am treated terribly. Due to my family not being present very often I have to bike 15k to work every day. I AM thankful that I have a job and that I make so much per hour (min wage is 9.60). But I did start at minimum wage and worked my ass off to get $0.50 higher than the legal maximum wage. The health environment is the only reason that I am looking for another job.. every day I go into a barn and am breathing through a respirator, but when I leave at the end of the day, I am spitting out dirt and blowing it out my nose. I spend my own money on respirators so that I won't have health complications in my older days.

    I go out every week handing out resumes to places in town to places that, if they knew what my job involved, would more than likely hire me. Yet when I walk into ex. McDonalds, I am greeted by some senior asking me what I will have. Then I ask for an application and the mood changes. She looks as if she wants to kill me. I take and fill out the application and hand it in, but not before the cashier can insert the "sad move": "We're not hiring right now, but we'll keep your resume and application on file.". Like if you weren't hiring you should have told me so that I wouldn't be wasting resumes at this place.

    Also, when I get a call for an interview at ex. Tim Hortons, and am sitting down with the interviewer, she asks questions about my job and what I do. I answer them as politely as possible without blurting out what I want to say (I WILL DIE IF YOU DON'T HIRE ME), I say the reason I am looking for new employment is due to health hazards at my current workplace. She shows a fake look of concern and moves on with the questions. I say I am available at all hours the the day and am willing to work absolutely any shift outside of school. I also add that I am making $11.06 and am willing to take even under minimum wage.

    I always get "no" as my interview answer. I don't know where this stands in this debate but I had to vent. So thanks everyone.
    Last edited by Daniel; 09-06-2013 at 11:55 AM. Reason: Removed foul language.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brandon View Post
    This line:



    Invalidates most of what you're saying already though. You live in the Netherlands. If anyone in America can even live on 500 a month, you won't have homeless at all lol. Everyone would be rich. I'm surprised she can even get to work, buy a meal, pay for housing all with 250.

    IIRC, you live in the Netherlands? Something like that. The life there is completely different so no you cannot compare at all. Try 950+ for a basic apartment outside the city area, 3.00 for a bus ride, etc.. Won't even bother mentioning the price of a meal. I remember they charged me "Foreigner Gratitude" on my bill when I visited there(basically an automatic 15% tip if you have an accent + regular tip).

    Your 250 number simply shows the difference in culture/country. 10.50 Minimum in Canada and w/e around 8.00 minimum in America. Yet the currency here is pretty much the same as theirs and the cost of living is slightly higher than theirs for food and items but lower for housing.
    Indonesia; there is no minimum wage, there is no unemployment/retired/disabled pay, and only a handful of private companies or directly working in the government come with health benefits. While taxes still exist the people don't get anything in return, maybe a few street lights are fixed in a few months or half a kilometer of road is repaired within a year's time. If you'd like some further comparison on the corruption of your country (I'm assuming US?) compared to mine I invite you to read over this and directly highlighting corruption in Indonesia; this.

    And yes she still does her job and she's thankful for the position she has, because if she loses her job then there's no help from the government, there is none of that nice unemployment income here; if you don't have enough money to live then your days on Earth quickly run out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brandon View Post
    Yes I have and I'm pretty sure I know the difference between a McJob and a "high-paying" job.. Though that wasn't high-paying and our degrees here is Celsius and no I didn't have it in Ice-Rain. They have hangers though :S. Aeronautics engineering and Mech. engineering went hand in hand when I was looking for a Mech. job.. Its far better than working the fast food chain. I can definitely say that. Since I have had both jobs (not McJobs but close enough), my question to you is.. Have you had a McJob?
    I'm gonna call BS on you claiming you've been in my exact situation. And hangers? That must have been nice. As I said, on those projects I listed we were outside because that option simply wasn't available for us; but did we bitch about it and demand a raise? No, we acted like adults and dealt with the job at hand.

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  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flight View Post
    Indonesia; there is no minimum wage, there is no unemployment/retired/disabled pay, and only a handful of private companies or directly working in the government come with health benefits. While taxes still exist the people don't get anything in return, maybe a few street lights are fixed in a few months or half a kilometer of road is repaired within a year's time. If you'd like some further comparison on the corruption of your country (I'm assuming US?) compared to mine I invite you to read over this and directly highlighting corruption in Indonesia; this.

    And yes she still does her job and she's thankful for the position she has, because if she loses her job then there's no help from the government, there is none of that nice unemployment income here; if you don't have enough money to live then your days on Earth quickly run out.



    I'm gonna call BS on you claiming you've been in my exact situation. And hangers? That must have been nice. As I said, on those projects I listed we were outside because that option simply wasn't available for us; but did we bitch about it and demand a raise? No, we acted like adults and dealt with the job at hand.
    The problem isn't that they just want more pay. It's that they can't live on that pay and nothing is being done to help those people. Ok, Not all people deserve help. But if a country makes people so self concious of how much they earn compared to others then it's a bit unfair to say. You can earn $1200 a month. But pay $1400 on rent, and electricity. Let alone food etc.

    Where does that other 200 come from? They give income help... of $20... ok so $180 to go. That $20 only goes back into the taxes they pay.

    It's a lose lose cause.

    By the way, this is coming from someone who worked from the age of 13. I know what work is. I know how hard it is. I've had plenty of hard jobs:

    MaccyD
    Café
    KFC
    Organising things from skips (Dead peoples crap, Wood, Mouldy food, Nappies).

    And now I work in an office doing my somewhat dream job.

    I struggle to get by. I have to pay for a car. Insurance all that crap. I pay rent. Thank god I don't eat alot otherwise I'd be really poor. To be honest, thats probably why I have that little allowance left. Because I don't have breakfast. I have £3 lunch every day. if I want dinner I either skip it and wait for lunch the next day or I work even more. e.g. Freelance Web design work.
    Last edited by Daniel; 09-06-2013 at 11:43 AM. Reason: Removed foul language.

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    On-Topic:
    Indonesia; there is no minimum wage, there is no unemployment/retired/disabled pay, and only a handful of private companies or directly working in the government come with health benefits. While taxes still exist the people don't get anything in return, maybe a few street lights are fixed in a few months or half a kilometer of road is repaired within a year's time. If you'd like some further comparison on the corruption of your country (I'm assuming US?) compared to mine I invite you to read over this and directly highlighting corruption in Indonesia; this.

    And yes she still does her job and she's thankful for the position she has, because if she loses her job then there's no help from the government, there is none of that nice unemployment income here; if you don't have enough money to live then your days on Earth quickly run out.
    I'm living in Canada but I still feel bad for the American wage. What you stated here is true but you see, that's poverty due to corruption. That's not poverty due to greed. McDonalds makes iunno $500-Billion in a single year and out of that, how much do the CEO's get + bonuses? What do the workers get? The minimum wage in America is supposed to be the absolute minimum to survive. However, it is not. You would require 2-3 jobs as a student just to get to school. Seeing as you live in what I see to be bad, I don't see why you won't agree that a raise somewhere is obviously needed. If you don't fight for what you want, who will? At least the McDonalds employees are being courageous and actually truthful.

    I know exactly what it felt like to be poor before I got on my feet. If you also understand how hard these minimum wage 9-5 jobs are, then you too would be sympathetic even if just a little. Especially if you are or were once a student.

    Off-Topic:
    Quote Originally Posted by Flight View Post
    I'm gonna call BS on you claiming you've been in my exact situation. And hangers? That must have been nice. As I said, on those projects I listed we were outside because that option simply wasn't available for us; but did we bitch about it and demand a raise? No, we acted like adults and dealt with the job at hand.

    You know.. this is funny. I've always been belittled and stereotyped on these forums and told what I'm capable of and what I'm not.. Especially when I just joined but I'm pretty sure I've done enough by now but I guess not..

    LOL I call BS on you though.. Here's why? Because YOU'RE NOT THE ONLY ENGINEER/Programmer/w.e else ON THESE FORUMS. However, you can enjoy some pics I have on my cellphone from my trips to Montreal and BC and my Garage.. And when I get home, you can brace yourself because you've probably done far less than I have but I won't put you down or belittle you.

    Iphone life:
    http://i.imgur.com/MFn0iiT.jpg //Seneca college intern. Yes I am a 2x drop-out.
    http://i.imgur.com/ysCg7WS.jpg //Same as above but larger view.
    http://i.imgur.com/UJTDnsP.jpg //Helicopter view.
    http://i.imgur.com/HV1FwVf.jpg
    http://i.imgur.com/FF6yE8W.jpg
    http://i.imgur.com/VlcRhMb.jpg
    http://i.imgur.com/UsM033w.jpg //Seen this on the chive but also in real life. Got to ride in it and clean the propellers.
    http://i.imgur.com/7nWwNSF.jpg //Current project with my uncle.. Building a chopper.


    Lol. I don't have any of us (myself and the team and the instructors taking apart anything because they are safety freaks and no phones or cameras or any electronics allowed on the job including music)

    Need anymore? Oh here's my first year textbooks if you want that too (I sold the others):

    http://i.imgur.com/JdOsFKV.jpg //Tried to fit most in one pic.. Don't mind my feet. Not sure why phone takes pics sideways.
    http://puu.sh/4g1NK.JPG //And now you know my last name (I try hard to keep my name and internet identity hidden).. Uhh phone camera is bad so w.e.. It's a Jig I designed and built in the shop.

    Oh you want more? Pfft. Not worth it to have someone on the internet try to tell me what I've done and what I haven't done (I've had enough of this). Just because I code doesn't mean that I'm a programmer.

    When you know true hardwork and what other's have been through, then you'll understand why the others who are less fortunate want a raise. Simply saying "This is stupid, they don't deserve it" doesn't cut it.

    You know what paid for my education? A single mom and my 2 "McJobs" (not actually McDonald's but minimum wage).

    Meh. I'm going to sleep. I had enough arguing.
    Last edited by Brandon; 09-01-2013 at 02:38 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hazzah View Post
    Federal Minimum wage in the US is 7.25 I believe. Most state pay that price for minimum wage, but some of them to pay higher, like I believe Connecticut pays slightly over $8.00 an hour for minimum wage.
    Some states even pay lower >..> Georgia... $5.15, Also note, cost of living in Georgia is actually quite low.

    Tho I live in Florida where it is $7.79 (And has been rising)
    Albeit, I can't find a job anywhere....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dgby714 View Post
    Some states even pay lower >..> Georgia... $5.15, Also note, cost of living in Georgia is actually quite low.

    Tho I live in Florida where it is $7.79 (And has been rising)
    Albeit, I can't find a job anywhere....
    $7.25 here in Georgia :/ it was $5.15 for the longest time, but I think it some states like New York minimum wage is supposed to be higher due to higher cost of living? (Such as NYC) but probably isn't much.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Officer Barbrady View Post
    $7.25 here in Georgia :/ it was $5.15 for the longest time, but I think it some states like New York minimum wage is supposed to be higher due to higher cost of living? (Such as NYC) but probably isn't much.
    7.25? Hmm, ~$2 increase? jebus

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brandon View Post
    You know.. this is funny. I've always been belittled and stereotyped on these forums and told what I'm capable of and what I'm not.. Especially when I just joined but I'm pretty sure I've done enough by now but I guess not..

    LOL I call BS on you though.. Here's why? Because YOU'RE NOT THE ONLY ENGINEER/Programmer/w.e else ON THESE FORUMS. However, you can enjoy some pics I have on my cellphone from my trips to Montreal and BC and my Garage.. And when I get home, you can brace yourself because you've probably done far less than I have but I won't put you down or belittle you.

    Iphone life:
    http://i.imgur.com/MFn0iiT.jpg //Seneca college intern. Yes I am a 2x drop-out.
    http://i.imgur.com/ysCg7WS.jpg //Same as above but larger view.
    http://i.imgur.com/UJTDnsP.jpg //Helicopter view.
    http://i.imgur.com/HV1FwVf.jpg
    http://i.imgur.com/FF6yE8W.jpg
    http://i.imgur.com/VlcRhMb.jpg
    http://i.imgur.com/UsM033w.jpg //Seen this on the chive but also in real life. Got to ride in it and clean the propellers.
    http://i.imgur.com/7nWwNSF.jpg //Current project with my uncle.. Building a chopper.


    Lol. I don't have any of us (myself and the team and the instructors taking apart anything because they are safety freaks and no phones or cameras or any electronics allowed on the job including music)

    Need anymore? Oh here's my first year textbooks if you want that too (I sold the others):

    http://i.imgur.com/JdOsFKV.jpg //Tried to fit most in one pic.. Don't mind my feet. Not sure why phone takes pics sideways.
    http://puu.sh/4g1NK.JPG //And now you know my last name (I try hard to keep my name and internet identity hidden).. Uhh phone camera is bad so w.e.. It's a Jig I designed and built in the shop.

    Oh you want more? Pfft. Not worth it to have someone on the internet try to tell me what I've done and what I haven't done (I've had enough of this). Just because I code doesn't mean that I'm a programmer.

    When you know true hardwork and what other's have been through, then you'll understand why the others who are less fortunate want a raise. Simply saying "This is stupid, they don't deserve it" doesn't cut it.

    You know what paid for my education? A single mom and my 2 "McJobs" (not actually McDonald's but minimum wage).

    Meh. I'm going to sleep. I had enough arguing.
    Well then you have my apology Brandon. It wasn't right of me to assume I was the only one who busted ass working on airplanes, and furthermore I've not worked on a helicopter but I heard it's the gearing that makes them a real pain to work with, mechanically speaking. Can you blame me for doubting the fact that there are multiple people in this community who work(ed) in that specific area. But surely if you've truly worked a physically difficult as I have, and even in the same conditions, then I'm unable to understand what grounds you could possibly compare easy but constant tasks to difficult & limit-pushing work.

    I too started working at a young age, nothing official, just working a nearby sawmill while I was in junior high or so. Did not continue college after highschool because I was taking machine shop still in my senior year; luckily it was free. All of my aviation education was on the job, I never even took the test for the AP license, but I still all the jobs that required them. Programming, no, never took a course; is that not obvious?...

    Current projects:
    [ AeroGuardians (GotR minigame), Motherlode Miner, Blast furnace ]

    "I won't fall in your gravity. Open your eyes,
    you're the Earth and I'm the sky..."


  14. #39
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    @Flight; and @Brandon;
    What about a programming related job? I had a job interview at a company and they were impressed with my knowledge and dedication for being a first year student. But I didn't had enough web based knowledge so they offered free PluralSight access worth around 300$/yr to learn a few web based languages. Currently working on that and once I have passed the courses I needed I should be able to start working for them. They sponsor the university corp I'm in and one teacher works there 4 days a week and one day a week of classes.

    That would pay around 12,50€/h which is more than double the minimum wage for someone my age here.
    My CV and education is not too impressive, just a summer job at a snackbar and at an amusement park. Education high school with the largest profile/subjects possible with alright grades. University first year passed all exams, 75% grade average.

    Always hear stories from people that you don't need a degree in US/Canada to earn much so I don't see why a company wouldn't hire someone like Brandon with extensive Java and C++ knowledge. Probably more languages. And for Flight to be a SRL Developer you should be able to learn new languages that a company would want. But I have no idea how the situation in Indonesia is.

    But judging from http://job-search.jobstreet.co.id/in...ogrammer-jobs/ there certainly are jobs. You might need to have one or more years experience in the field but it never hurts to try. The job I tried to get was mainly meant for an internship but I might get it anyways.

    I've only been programming for around 1,75 years so you two should be able to do the same. I don't think my 1 year of university knowledge would really make or break a job interview.

    Script source code available here: Github

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    Quote Originally Posted by J J View Post
    @Flight; and @Brandon;
    What about a programming related job? I had a job interview at a company and they were impressed with my knowledge and dedication for being a first year student. But I didn't had enough web based knowledge so they offered free PluralSight access worth around 300$/yr to learn a few web based languages. Currently working on that and once I have passed the courses I needed I should be able to start working for them. They sponsor the university corp I'm in and one teacher works there 4 days a week and one day a week of classes.

    That would pay around 12,50€/h which is more than double the minimum wage for someone my age here.
    My CV and education is not too impressive, just a summer job at a snackbar and at an amusement park. Education high school with the largest profile/subjects possible with alright grades. University first year passed all exams, 75% grade average.

    Always hear stories from people that you don't need a degree in US/Canada to earn much so I don't see why a company wouldn't hire someone like Brandon with extensive Java and C++ knowledge. Probably more languages. And for Flight to be a SRL Developer you should be able to learn new languages that a company would want. But I have no idea how the situation in Indonesia is.

    But judging from http://job-search.jobstreet.co.id/in...ogrammer-jobs/ there certainly are jobs. You might need to have one or more years experience in the field but it never hurts to try. The job I tried to get was mainly meant for an internship but I might get it anyways.

    I've only been programming for around 1,75 years so you two should be able to do the same. I don't think my 1 year of university knowledge would really make or break a job interview.
    Yeah that's a good example actually. It's more than possible to get a good education without taking up an entry level job. This is reliant upon how good your grades were in highschool; did they qualify for a grant or scholarship? And of course I don't know how this works in the Netherlands but is it not similar or the same there? Good grades in school should be rewarded and continued school in a college or university should come free or a at dramatically reduced price. It's quite possible to get into a nice career if you really focus and give effort to you education at an early stage.

    Yes well whatever programming knowledge I have myself is just what I've picked up alone. As I've said before this is a hobby for me, I was never serious about it, and I've surely never taken a programming course. I did however spend a few days following a beginners tutorial on creating a Java-based platformer game and porting it to Android; this is the only thing that comes close to programming training. But however far I get into it isn't very important as my primary job is working with the company I'm in now; this will always have priority and I didn't need to go to any school to be where I am now.

    Current projects:
    [ AeroGuardians (GotR minigame), Motherlode Miner, Blast furnace ]

    "I won't fall in your gravity. Open your eyes,
    you're the Earth and I'm the sky..."


  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flight View Post
    Yeah that's a good example actually. It's more than possible to get a good education without taking up an entry level job. This is reliant upon how good your grades were in highschool; did they qualify for a grant or scholarship? And of course I don't know how this works in the Netherlands but is it not similar or the same there? Good grades in school should be rewarded and continued school in a college or university should come free or a at dramatically reduced price. It's quite possible to get into a nice career if you really focus and give effort to you education at an early stage.

    Yes well whatever programming knowledge I have myself is just what I've picked up alone. As I've said before this is a hobby for me, I was never serious about it, and I've surely never taken a programming course. I did however spend a few days following a beginners tutorial on creating a Java-based platformer game and porting it to Android; this is the only thing that comes close to programming training. But however far I get into it isn't very important as my primary job is working with the company I'm in now; this will always have priority and I didn't need to go to any school to be where I am now.
    When you go to college or university you can apply for a "performance scholarship" regardless of your grades. You have 10 years to complete a study and if you do it will be turned into a gift. Otherwise you will need to pay it back.

    I get 97,85€ per month so 1174,20€ in a year. Can also travel with public transport for free. Tuition fee is 1800€/yr so it costs me around 625€/yr + book costs. So with working a few hours a week you should be able to earn 1000€ a year to cover the costs straight away. You can keep living at your parents house and travel with your bicycle and public transport to get to university.

    As long as you are earning less than €13.530,90 a year you can apply for a performance scholarship..

    One thing that isn't too fair is the fact that the amount you get depends on your parents income. But if your parents are earning a lot it doesn't mean that they will pay for your study. So you will get significantly less but are still paying as much as the people that get the maximum amount.

    But all in all.. it's pretty good.

    Script source code available here: Github

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    So...It's the companies responsibility to pay more? I thought their goal was to be a successful business...

    Maybe SOME workers deserve higher pay...but not all of them.

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    My favorite work related quote is "The less you make per hour, the more you have to work". It especially relates to my trade. With me being an apprentice and making basically slave wages, I easily do most of the BS work around the job site, plus I still do everything that my journeyman does, who gets double the pay because he has gotten at least 8000 hours work experience. Now in 3 more years, I'll get my journeymans card, and be making the high-end salary like everyone else(As well as not having to dig as many holes, for example). I'm not complaining at all, I chose this career, and I love every minute of it. All I have to say is I don't feel bad for people who work fast-food. I know how hard it is(second hand experience) but I also know that even if you work at mcdonalds, you have a chance to work your way up the ladder and make more than $15 by eventually being promoted to manager(Hell, one day you can even start your own franchise, and watch all the money flow in), which gives you good experience for going out and getting better, less stressfull management jobs.
    <TViYH> i had a dream about you again awkwardsaw
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    I work at Mcdonalds, 15$ is ridiculous. I work horrible hours (usually 6am-4pm), get paid minimum wage, belittled on a daily basis, deal with people who are assholes all day, have to clock out early and still work, get called in at 3am, and in the morning basically run the store by myself, then get yelled at for not being fast enough. Ive got scars all over my arms from people dropping hot oil on me, to people knocking me into the grill on accident.

    Point being, its a crappy job, I hate working there.

    Good news? It makes we sure as hell want to go to college.
    Mcdonalds is not meant to be a job to support yourself, let alone a family on. Does it give people a right to make fun of them? No. 3/4 the people at my Mcdonalds are teenagers just trying to pay for ramen and gas.


    Should they make 15$/hr? No. It would be nice, but no. I would love too, but when all you need to know how to do can be taught in a day, you should make minimum wage.

    I can do peoples totals in my head, do tax, this job has made me fast as hell at math and a numeber of other things, but it is not meant to support a family, or yourself fully.

    E* Im not sure where you guys want to go to college in the US.. Im going to Eastern Michigan University for my four year Pre-Med for 15k a year, they are giving me 4.5k in scholarships just for having a 30 ACT and applying, plus I am competing for a scholarship for the entire four years, all paid. It just took work in school, taking advanced classes, learning ect. My first four years of college will cost me approx. 50k with room and board, I can take those out in student loans (dont have to pay until I finish all college), then go straight into my med-school ( U of M or John's Hopkins) and both will pay for my school if I agree to sign a contract with them to be a surgeon for four years. I want to be an Orthopedic Surgeon, I specialize in joints. Starting pay working for one of the hospitals who I sign with? 350k + 100k in benefits. So I would have roughly 75k in school bills.. I could pay them off the first year.. Being just my wife and I ( I am assuming ill be married by then..) I could easily live on 100k, that leaves 150k a year after taxes to put into savings for three years, so I would start off with 450k in savings while opening my own practice. Average pay after their 4 years are up? 650k + 100k benefits.



    I dont see the issue, work your job, get up and find a job that is worth going to school for. It can be done, mom raised me while on welfare working two jobs.. funny thing is? She was valedictorian and got a 36 ACT.. Bad things happen to everyone. Just get back up.
    Last edited by Daniel; 09-06-2013 at 11:59 AM. Reason: Removed foul language.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hoodz View Post
    Its mac donalds, every one can do that..
    You'd think so, right?... But there are even people out there who can't spell it correctly...
    The only true authority stems from knowledge, not from position.

    You can contact me via matrix protocol: @grats:grats.win or you can email me at the same domain, any user/email address.

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    Quote Originally Posted by grats View Post
    You'd think so, right?... But there are even people out there who can't spell it correctly...
    Im not english? And here, if you want to work in the mc donalds, you will easily get the job

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    Quote Originally Posted by hoodz View Post
    Im not english? And here, if you want to work in the mc donalds, you will easily get the job
    it's in the title..
    The only true authority stems from knowledge, not from position.

    You can contact me via matrix protocol: @grats:grats.win or you can email me at the same domain, any user/email address.

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    Quote Originally Posted by grats View Post
    it's in the title..
    Oooh sorry

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    Quote Originally Posted by grats View Post
    You'd think so, right?... But there are even people out there who can't spell it correctly...
    This made me laugh so hard, thankyou XD

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    One of the major issues I'm noticing in all these arguments is a sense of monetary value. Even within a single country, $5 in one place is not the same as $5 somewhere else. A standard of living is not quite as relevant (especially so in the United States) from one area to the next, when they aren't the same.

    First let's look at the Twin Cities (a metropolitan area of around 5 million people within Minessota, United States): The standard of living here consists of *roughly* $650/month rent, $100-150 utilities and $150-400 food, depending on how one chooses to spend their money. It is also entirely possible to find apartments at $300/month or $1800/month. But that's not the standard, those are just adjustments if people wish to live nicer or live cheaper. Likewise, let's look at a medium sized metropolitan area of Iowa with around 600,000 people. The standard of living drops to about $450/month rent, $80 utilities and roughly the same in food (with of course much cheaper or more expensive rents existing). OR let's jump to the State of Washington and look at Seattle where a standard living is roughly $750/month rent $200 utilities and $200-500 food. And yes, there are plenty of cheaper AND more expensive cities within the U.S.A. alone.

    Granted, my example states have different minimum wages, however they are NOT representative of those different costs. An Iowan minimum wage in the aforementioned metro area will absolutely cover 100% of bills with a significant portion of money still remaining, absolutely no problem. I think it's perfectly fine for McDonald's workers to earn $7.50 there, ESPECIALLY considering the fact that McDonalds has a fairly high turnover and anyone that actually dedicates themselves to staying even just 3 years is typically a manager with almost double the pay already. Maybe that example isn't a typical case, but from the number of friends I've had working both for McDonald's and Hardees and their testimonies, that applies (I will grant those testimonies are 100% within the Iowa area). However, in Seattle, if someone is getting paid $7.50 for that same work, I do NOT agree with that. Someone could live off that even still, but there would be absolutely no spare money, and they would be forced into a minimalist lifestyle (which actually suits many people just fine, but we're referring to standards, not what people are capable of). But even in that case, a pay of $11 or so would be plenty high considering the differences in costs of living in relation. Will they ever make it anywhere doing the bare minimum work at a McDonalds? Probably not, although with dedication they could reasonably hit the $20/hr mark even there - but it would earn enough to help pay for schooling or the necessary time to apply to other better jobs.

    As it stands, I don't think there should be a universal pay raise, so much as a respective pay raise. But it can't be a government instated one either, simply due to the size and infrastructure of changes that would be required... Individual cities/metropolitans would require specific pays as opposed to other areas, because you could simply take Seattle's new minimum wage and simply live in a much cheaper portion of Washington. My 2 cents isn't the same as the next guy's 2 cents, and that's something that needs to be brought into consideration. How do they differ?

    Another thing to take into account is how willing people are to actually use their money intelligently... I am quite capable of eating healthily and with variety off ~$100/month, but instead I get lazy and eat out and average ~$300/month instead. Being capable of living off of $1200/month and actually doing so are very different things...

    Edit: Also, I've been gone for a month. Sup, everyone.

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