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Thread: Mcdonalds protesters pushing for $15 an hour.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin View Post
    One of the major issues I'm noticing in all these arguments is a sense of monetary value. Even within a single country, $5 in one place is not the same as $5 somewhere else. A standard of living is not quite as relevant (especially so in the United States) from one area to the next, when they aren't the same.

    First let's look at the Twin Cities (a metropolitan area of around 5 million people within Minessota, United States): The standard of living here consists of *roughly* $650/month rent, $100-150 utilities and $150-400 food, depending on how one chooses to spend their money. It is also entirely possible to find apartments at $300/month or $1800/month. But that's not the standard, those are just adjustments if people wish to live nicer or live cheaper. Likewise, let's look at a medium sized metropolitan area of Iowa with around 600,000 people. The standard of living drops to about $450/month rent, $80 utilities and roughly the same in food (with of course much cheaper or more expensive rents existing). OR let's jump to the State of Washington and look at Seattle where a standard living is roughly $750/month rent $200 utilities and $200-500 food. And yes, there are plenty of cheaper AND more expensive cities within the U.S.A. alone.

    Granted, my example states have different minimum wages, however they are NOT representative of those different costs. An Iowan minimum wage in the aforementioned metro area will absolutely cover 100% of bills with a significant portion of money still remaining, absolutely no problem. I think it's perfectly fine for McDonald's workers to earn $7.50 there, ESPECIALLY considering the fact that McDonalds has a fairly high turnover and anyone that actually dedicates themselves to staying even just 3 years is typically a manager with almost double the pay already. Maybe that example isn't a typical case, but from the number of friends I've had working both for McDonald's and Hardees and their testimonies, that applies (I will grant those testimonies are 100% within the Iowa area). However, in Seattle, if someone is getting paid $7.50 for that same work, I do NOT agree with that. Someone could live off that even still, but there would be absolutely no spare money, and they would be forced into a minimalist lifestyle (which actually suits many people just fine, but we're referring to standards, not what people are capable of). But even in that case, a pay of $11 or so would be plenty high considering the differences in costs of living in relation. Will they ever make it anywhere doing the bare minimum work at a McDonalds? Probably not, although with dedication they could reasonably hit the $20/hr mark even there - but it would earn enough to help pay for schooling or the necessary time to apply to other better jobs.

    As it stands, I don't think there should be a universal pay raise, so much as a respective pay raise. But it can't be a government instated one either, simply due to the size and infrastructure of changes that would be required... Individual cities/metropolitans would require specific pays as opposed to other areas, because you could simply take Seattle's new minimum wage and simply live in a much cheaper portion of Washington. My 2 cents isn't the same as the next guy's 2 cents, and that's something that needs to be brought into consideration. How do they differ?

    Another thing to take into account is how willing people are to actually use their money intelligently... I am quite capable of eating healthily and with variety off ~$100/month, but instead I get lazy and eat out and average ~$300/month instead. Being capable of living off of $1200/month and actually doing so are very different things...

    Edit: Also, I've been gone for a month. Sup, everyone.
    Good thoughts, welcome back

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    Prices of everything are going up but not salary. They are doing the right thing. Even McDonalds food prices are going up. These people have bills

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    Quote Originally Posted by jayshawn View Post
    Prices of everything are going up but not salary. They are doing the right thing. Even McDonalds food prices are going up. These people have bills
    But a sudden across the board pay raise wouldn't help anyone. Cost of living VS Area VS Payrate..

    Economics do not just apply because it is what people want..

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    They can always go for other options like

    selling their body's

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    Quote Originally Posted by xtrapsp View Post
    > Coming from someone who worked at KFC and Maccy D.

    It's a horrible job where you are treated like dog poo. The hours are overdone and the workload are stupid.
    I for one say, give them a pay rise. At least they're working. Trying to get out there.

    Might I also add Yohojo, Working in the fast food industry does not require no education. You of all people should know this. Especially as you constantly ask for help on this matter.
    Working at fast food requires on-the-job skills and education like the basic, reading, writing, mathematics etc.

    I once met a man in KFC who came in and the conversation went like so:

    Man: "Which one of your buckets is cheapest but best for value for a family of 4? 2 little ones, aged 6 and 7 and 2 adults"
    Me: "To be honest, it depends on the amount you wish to eat and how much your budget is".
    Man: "In that case I'l go for the 14 piece bargain bucket with 2 hotwings"
    Me: "I can make that cheaper for you, just by adding the extra hotwing package"
    Man: "Thanks, I thought most people who worked in fast food were incompetent with logic"
    Me: "Well, Not all of us are made for fast food. Especially during this terrible time with the economy, I go to school 9-5 and work 6-10."
    Man: "I work at a school, teaching history, maybe one day you'l be as good as me"
    Me: "I am as a good as you, if not better."

    ^^ He left.

    What I'm trying to say is, you can put these people down, you can push them away. But not all of them have the stereotypes you justified above. - Officer Barbrady.

    What sickens me is the elitist view a lot of you have. You're mostly all from fairly well off families or have been spoon fed to help you into your education.

    I've gone from Crap Grades in school and a terrible job at KFC to Working in IT and earning more than all the people in my school year who did good at their academic studies. At the end of the day these people do have jobs. They don't need ignorant idiots like yourselves putting them down because you go to them for your quick meal and to look down on them.

    Grow up. I would expect better from an SRL member, let alone a moderator

    Mum/mom can't buy us everything. You haven't even got an idea of what work is.
    I moved out with 50$ when i turned 17. I lived on minimum wage(7.25$/hr here in PA) for a while(about a year). I am self-supporting. I've never collected any welfare or food stamps.
    Working at a fastfood place and making minimum wage is a ***tty job. I'd never do it because I don't like the environment. However, it takes no skill, I know this because of the friends I have that work fast food.

    The issue isn't how much they make an hour, it is what they do with their money. I could only pay rent, I never used heat in the winter or AC in the summer. The left over money went to food. It sucked balls, but I lived TOTALLY fine.
    Last edited by Daniel; 09-06-2013 at 12:00 PM. Reason: Removed quoted foul language.

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    Quote Originally Posted by footballjds View Post
    I moved out with 50$ when i turned 17. I lived on minimum wage(7.25$/hr here in PA) for a while(about a year). I am self-supporting. I've never collected any welfare or food stamps.
    Working at a fastfood place and making minimum wage is a ***tty job. I'd never do it because I don't like the environment. However, it takes no skill, I know this because of the friends I have that work fast food.

    The issue isn't how much they make an hour, it is what they do with their money. I could only pay rent, I never used heat in the winter or AC in the summer. The left over money went to food. It sucked balls, but I lived TOTALLY fine.
    1. You're saying you had no help? I somehow don't believe that. If the person you moved in with had a cheap room. That's help.
    2. Your friends worked there, yea ok, so you know how it feels? Maybe they didn't do a good job? I worked my bloody ass off trying to get a promotion. I worked overtime for no money. I did lifts. I did the bloody Managers work. Trust me, when people actually get up off their arse a do a job properly it's hard work. Don't you dare tell me that it takes no skill when you haven't even worked there and your idiotic friends are lazy as anything.

    3. The issue is in some places the living arrangements cost more than the earning wage. Take me for example. I have a good job now. IT Support. But I have to TRAVEL 50+ MILES A DAY. That costs money ya know?

    Well done for being a lucky person. But don't you dare tell me that working in fast food takes no skill. You obviously didn't live totally fine if your intelligence is this pathetic.
    Last edited by Daniel; 09-06-2013 at 11:42 AM. Reason: Removed foul language.

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    Quote Originally Posted by xtrapsp View Post
    1. You're saying you had no help? I somehow don't believe that. If the person you moved in with had a cheap room. That's help.
    2. Your friends worked there, yea ok, so you know how it feels? Maybe they didn't do a good job? I worked my bloody ass off trying to get a promotion. I worked overtime for no money. I did lifts. I did the bloody Managers work. Trust me, when people actually get up off their arse a do a job properly it's hard work. Don't you dare tell me that it takes no skill when you haven't even worked there and your idiotic friends are lazy as anything.

    3. The issue is in some places the living arrangements cost more than the earning wage. Take me for example. I have a good job now. IT Support. But I have to TRAVEL 50+ MILES A DAY. That costs money ya know?

    Well done for being a lucky person. But don't you dare tell me that working in fast food takes no skill. You obviously didn't live totally fine if your intelligence is this pathetic.
    There u have it, the special xtrapsp love.

    That's all folks.
    Last edited by Daniel; 09-06-2013 at 11:42 AM. Reason: Removed quoted foul language.

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    Quote Originally Posted by xtrapsp View Post
    > Coming from someone who worked at KFC and Maccy D.

    It's a horrible job where you are treated like dog poo. The hours are overdone and the workload are stupid.
    I for one say, give them a pay rise. At least they're working. Trying to get out there.

    Might I also add Yohojo, Working in the fast food industry does not require no education. You of all people should know this. Especially as you constantly ask for help on this matter.
    Working at fast food requires on-the-job skills and education like the basic, reading, writing, mathematics etc.

    ----

    What I'm trying to say is, you can put these people down, you can push them away. But not all of them have the stereotypes you justified above. - Officer Barbrady.

    What sickens me is the elitist view a lot of you have. You're mostly all from fairly well off families or have been spoon fed to help you into your education.

    I've gone from Crap Grades in school and a terrible job at KFC to Working in IT and earning more than all the people in my school year who did good at their academic studies. At the end of the day these people do have jobs. They don't need ignorant idiots like yourselves putting them down because you go to them for your quick meal and to look down on them.

    Grow up. I would expect better from an SRL member, let alone a moderator

    Mum/mom can't buy us everything. You haven't even got an idea of what work is.
    If you don't like the responsibilities of a job, then leave and find another one. No one forces you to accept others mistreating you or not allowing you to stand up for yourself. Yohojo probably meant that unskilled labor doesn't require any form of "higher" education. Obviously as you imply, the person must be able to read, write, and breath for the most part.

    The only person in this thread so that has gotten personal (aside from any deleted comments) is you. No one is belittling any worker, educated beyond high school or not. From what I read, unskilled labor at some of the most basic tasks is at the bottom of the national pay scale (which is fitting; someone has to be at the bottom). Companies can pay whatever people are willing to work for (legally of course). There happens to be a large work force that is willing to perform said tasks for the federal and/or state minimum wage (nothing wrong with that).

    Quote Originally Posted by Itankbots View Post
    I just think its ironic how some of the people on here think that mcdonalds or min wage jobs are for like "lower level" People.

    You shouldn't judge a person based on where they work. Maybe its a part time job? Or they ran into health issues (like i did) and needed to pick up a second job to help pay for medicine?

    Luckly ive never had to pick up harder working jobs for low pay. But for others atleast they're working instead of collecting welfare or something.

    And most those jobs suck too...and hard/bad hours. I doubt any of them WANT to be there. But they do it

    Also due to the fact alot of us are Pin/GP/Virtual good sellers....its kind of funny we judge them in a way that you call it "unskilled labor"

    Dont really need much of an education to set up bots and farm or sell pins :P
    I haven't seen anyone judging anyone else. If an individual really wants to succeed and earn a higher standard of living, believe me, they will. These McDonald's positions, for the most part, don't pay enough as a main source of income to live an average lifestyle. Someone shouldn't expect to live nicely going into a minimum wage job. As for many people, you use it as a stepping stone to gain experience or save money to leverage yourself into better opportunities.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brandon View Post
    The reason a company says this is because with a degree, they have to pay you MORE money than without and so, they rather take interns for free or pay little or anyone without a degree and offer them a temporary or 6-month position/contract.

    So basically, a degree/recommendation is sorta useless and just there to show that you know something but doesn't give you any guarantees or a higher chance than the next guy. In fact, most of the time it gives you less of a chance because no one wants to pay more. Thing is, without a degree or recommendation, you have no chance of even having your resume looked at either.

    So either way it is a lose-lose situation most of the time and they'd rather computerise everything for free labour.
    Nothing is guaranteed in life. I can say without a doubt though that if you had 2 people exactly the same, one with a degree and one without, any competent employer would take the person with the degree 10 times out of 10.

    For almost any technical position, you won't be competing against any prospective employees without a degree or adequate training/certification. Also, I am not aware of any law mandating companies to pay a person depending on their level of education. It could be a company policy, but you can always negotiate your salary/wage. A degree is just a sign of competency of being able to learn, take instruction, and produce results while providing you a primer to industry knowledge.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brandon View Post
    On-Topic:
    I'm living in Canada but I still feel bad for the American wage. What you stated here is true but you see, that's poverty due to corruption. That's not poverty due to greed. McDonalds makes iunno $500-Billion in a single year and out of that, how much do the CEO's get + bonuses? What do the workers get? The minimum wage in America is supposed to be the absolute minimum to survive. However, it is not. You would require 2-3 jobs as a student just to get to school. Seeing as you live in what I see to be bad, I don't see why you won't agree that a raise somewhere is obviously needed. If you don't fight for what you want, who will? At least the McDonalds employees are being courageous and actually truthful.

    I know exactly what it felt like to be poor before I got on my feet. If you also understand how hard these minimum wage 9-5 jobs are, then you too would be sympathetic even if just a little. Especially if you are or were once a student.
    McDonald's made a net income of 5.46B last year, quite a longshot from 500B. CEO's salary vs what the workers earn has no regard for each other. There are more people in the world that can flip hamburgers that can aptly manage a multi-billion dollar company. Depending on how big the company is, what type of workload and objective the board of directors (or owner) are looking for, CEO's salary can vary a lot.

    I've worked a number of minimum wage jobs and the pay is in line with the duty (of what I've experienced).

    Quote Originally Posted by xtrapsp View Post
    3. The issue is in some places the living arrangements cost more than the earning wage. Take me for example. I have a good job now. IT Support. But I have to TRAVEL 50+ MILES A DAY. That costs money ya know?
    You don't "have" to travel that far. You could look for living arrangements closer.
    Last edited by Daniel; 09-06-2013 at 12:00 PM. Reason: Removed quoted foul language.
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    Quote Originally Posted by xtrapsp View Post
    1. You're saying you had no help? I somehow don't believe that. If the person you moved in with had a cheap room. That's help.
    2. Your friends worked there, yea ok, so you know how it feels? Maybe they didn't do a good job? I worked my bloody ass off trying to get a promotion. I worked overtime for no money. I did lifts. I did the bloody Managers work. Trust me, when people actually get up off their arse a do a job properly it's hard work. Don't you dare tell me that it takes no skill when you haven't even worked there and your idiotic friends are lazy as anything.

    3. The issue is in some places the living arrangements cost more than the earning wage. Take me for example. I have a good job now. IT Support. But I have to TRAVEL 50+ MILES A DAY. That costs money ya know?

    Well done for being a lucky person. But don't you dare tell me that working in fast food takes no skill. You obviously didn't live totally fine if your intelligence is this pathetic.
    you're a bit heated. Calm down.

    I moved into a trailer 1 mile from my job so my commute was shorter, SAVES A LOT OF MONEY. Do i see friends and family as often? NO.

    I'm not lucky, I just learned to live with less. Something American's are TERRIBLE at.
    Last edited by Daniel; 09-06-2013 at 11:57 AM. Reason: Removed quoted foul language.

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    FWIW, I've worked with welders (with no formal education) offshore in the Gulf of Mexico laying pipeline making $50-100/hr, 12 hour days, 7 days a week.

    Although skilled labor, it amounted to being able to lay a steady bead using what amounts to an xbox-controller controlling 1 parameter in some cases (mechanized GMAW root to cap).

    Get into industries that are actively in need of personnel that pay. (e.g. Oil&Gas)

    When you are easily replaceable at a job, then you will have less leverage in earnings and responsibilities.

    -------------

    Funny enough, one of the reasons I got the job was because of my computer/programming skills (we do a lot of excel template sheets driven by VBA).

    There are many free tools out there to learn and become educated (library, internet, etc.) that can propel the driven to find other opportunities if they want to.
    Last edited by smurg; 09-05-2013 at 06:45 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by smurg View Post
    If you don't like the responsibilities of a job, then leave and find another one. No one forces you to accept others mistreating you or not allowing you to stand up for yourself. Yohojo probably meant that unskilled labor doesn't require any form of "higher" education. Obviously as you imply, the person must be able to read, write, and breath for the most part.
    >> A job is a job. They aren't that easy to come by at the moment. Take what you can get but that doesn't give the employers a reason to treat you like crap. Also Not liking the responsibilities has nothing to do with it. I stayed late without pay (Not in my contract). I did the managers time sheets (Not in my contract and the reason they got payed more). When I asked for more money they brushed me aside. But it's ok because I can just get another job from inside my arse.


    Quote Originally Posted by smurg View Post

    The only person in this thread so that has gotten personal (aside from any deleted comments) is you. No one is belittling any worker, educated beyond high school or not. From what I read, unskilled labor at some of the most basic tasks is at the bottom of the national pay scale (which is fitting; someone has to be at the bottom). Companies can pay whatever people are willing to work for (legally of course). There happens to be a large work force that is willing to perform said tasks for the federal and/or state minimum wage (nothing wrong with that).
    >> Obviously missed what RJJ said. Can't really comment.
    >>> Yes and the disgusting thing is the living wage is above the actual wage. People are expected to get multiple jobs etc. My argument was that isn't as easy as it seems. The only people who are disputing the amount of work and effort that these people do is those who haven't actually done those jobs. It's easy to judge and be-little when you haven't done it. Isn't it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by smurg View Post
    You don't "have" to travel that far. You could look for living arrangements closer.
    It's much more expensive to live in a city where most of the employment is. It's usually cheaper to drive long distances into the city than to rent a more expensive living area right in the city.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BMWxi View Post
    It's much more expensive to live in a city where most of the employment is. It's usually cheaper to drive long distances into the city than to rent a more expensive living area right in the city.
    Options would be limited but you could rent from shared housing. 1 room + shared kitchen, etc.
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    I feel like McDonalds can pay less also because they would be what you could consider "easy employment". They are an obvious choice with, I'm sure, many applicants at any given time. This gives them the ability to pay less. Fair? meh.

    One thing I'll say is, I moved from my hometown out to Northern Alberta because of the high availability of jobs...it was such a good decision. I know it doesn't work for everyone, but seriously consider "getting while the getting's good". My hometown in BC had a few options for summer employment (student): McDons, Stream (call rep, did it for awhile, soul-sucking work) and some construction. You had to apply and try very hard to get these jobs. In Alberta, ha, the streets are practically paved with gold. My first job started me at 26.50/hr with no experience and a couple day-long training classes (first aid, H2S Alive, Air Brakes)...
    So my final thoughts would be: get uncomfortable and get what you want out of life, if you're unhappy, and you can, change it.

    (Also it is getting heated in here, we are all still part of the same community)

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    Quote Originally Posted by footballjds View Post
    you're a bit heated. Calm down.

    I moved into a trailer 1 mile from my job so my commute was shorter, SAVES A LOT OF MONEY. Do i see friends and family as often? NO.

    I'm not lucky, I just learned to live with less. Something American's are TERRIBLE at.
    Learn to live with less and deal with your situation; you have the right state of mind mate and, to me, that's respectable.

    Quote Originally Posted by cause View Post
    I feel like McDonalds can pay less also because they would be what you could consider "easy employment". They are an obvious choice with, I'm sure, many applicants at any given time. This gives them the ability to pay less. Fair? meh.

    One thing I'll say is, I moved from my hometown out to Northern Alberta because of the high availability of jobs...it was such a good decision. I know it doesn't work for everyone, but seriously consider "getting while the getting's good". My hometown in BC had a few options for summer employment (student): McDons, Stream (call rep, did it for awhile, soul-sucking work) and some construction. You had to apply and try very hard to get these jobs. In Alberta, ha, the streets are practically paved with gold. My first job started me at 26.50/hr with no experience and a couple day-long training classes (first aid, H2S Alive, Air Brakes)...
    So my final thoughts would be: get uncomfortable and get what you want out of life, if you're unhappy, and you can, change it.

    (Also it is getting heated in here, we are all still part of the same community)
    If things aren't working out for you in your current situation then do a 180 on the situation, change it completely. As I read a quote one of my friends posted a few days ago "If you want something you've never had you have to do something you've never done".

    And yeah you're right it's getting a bit over the edge in here. I'm also to blame as I let the argument get the best of me. Apologies to anyone I might have offended here...

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    That would be quite wonderful
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    I think a raise is reasonable, but 15 seems a little too much.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dogrin View Post
    I think a raise is reasonable, but 15 seems a little too much.
    WHY is a raise reasonable??? McDonalds highers ANYONE that is willing to work and show up to work. The requirements and experience is NONE.

    Please give a few reasons why you think a raise is due. living off minimum wage with no government assistance is TOTALLY possible. I did it for a year.

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    Quote Originally Posted by footballjds View Post
    WHY is a raise reasonable??? McDonalds highers ANYONE that is willing to work and show up to work. The requirements and experience is NONE.

    Please give a few reasons why you think a raise is due. living off minimum wage with no government assistance is TOTALLY possible. I did it for a year.
    It depends on where you live, rent in some places is extremely expensive. Also take in account for health insurance, car insurance, not much sleep or time to raise a family. There's no reason anyone should have to work 70 or more hours a week to barely get some basic needs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dogrin View Post
    It depends on where you live, rent in some places is extremely expensive. Also take in account for health insurance, car insurance, not much sleep or time to raise a family. There's no reason anyone should have to work 70 or more hours a week to barely get some basic needs.
    Mcdonalds is not responsible for paying their workers enough for health insurance and enough to raise a family.

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    I think minimum loan should be the minimum amount of money a person needs to be able to live a normal life with health insurance. No car(unless for work), iphone, jetfighter or small private tropical islands.

    It is not up to mac Donalds. But the government to make this happen.
    Working on: Tithe Farmer

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    Instead of forcing big Mac to pay you higher wages through legislation(they will find ways around it), why don't people boycott mcdonalds, why don't people buy their meals from small business owners? A server at a small bar will easily earn 3x what his/her counterpart in McDonalds..

    Unfortunately, people like to be punished. They would lick the boot that kick them. They will still continue to support Mcdonalds inspite of the crap they serve everyday, but after work hours, go whinge about it in the pub or online or somewhere.. Oh the irony
    Last edited by Daniel; 10-03-2013 at 08:16 AM. Reason: Removed foul language.

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    Quote Originally Posted by slushpuppy View Post
    Instead of forcing big Mac to pay you higher wages through legislation(they will find ways around it), why don't people boycott mcdonalds, why don't people buy their meals from small business owners? A server at a small bar will easily earn 3x what his/her counterpart in McDonalds..

    Unfortunately, people like to be punished. They would lick the boot that kick them. They will still continue to support Mcdonalds inspite of the crap they serve everyday, but after work hours, go whinge about it in the pub or online or somewhere.. Oh the irony
    I've never heard of a server at a small bar easily earning $25/hr before... I've heard some waitresses earn that in very fancy sushi restaurants, but that's about the limit from the food service industry - and we're talking restaurants that cost $80+/meal to reach that kind of money as a waitress.
    Last edited by Daniel; 10-03-2013 at 08:16 AM. Reason: Removed quoted foul language.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin View Post
    I've never heard of a server at a small bar easily earning $25/hr before... I've heard some waitresses earn that in very fancy sushi restaurants, but that's about the limit from the food service industry - and we're talking restaurants that cost $80+/meal to reach that kind of money as a waitress.
    The only place to make that kind of money as a server would be in one of Disney's higher class restaurants or in a Vegas hotel of that same quality.

    The WDW waiting staff make tip wage, but an automatic 15% is added to EVERY bill for gratuity.

    The average meal for two at a sit down restaurant is roughly 80-100$ (I've been going to WDW for 6-7 years, and eaten in almost every restaurant) so that is 12-15$ in gratuity per table, if we only have two people at every table ( we have 6 and rack up 200-300$ of food everywhere). Knowing some staff, you can wait roughly 5-6 tables per hour, putting you at 60-90$/hour. After splitting with the other staff (WDW does do this) you end up with 40-50$ an hour. Not that bad for a server, but this is an extreme case

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