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Thread: Mcdonalds protesters pushing for $15 an hour.

  1. #101
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    In discussions like this, I see a lot of statements either implying or directly stating that the people working these jobs just need to get an education, get a better job, and quit complaining about their income level.

    The response to this implication is summed up in one quote, and I don't remember the actual author or exact wording, but it says: "If EVERYONE got a PhD, we would still need people to deliver our pizzas, work our grocery stores, take our fast food orders, and pump our gas. Just because you hold one of those jobs doesn't mean you deserve to live in poverty."

    It is NOT possible for a single parent, or even two parents working minimum wage jobs to support any kind of lifestyle without some kind of assistance, and then you demonize them because they utilize foodstamps or welfare.

    Not everyone is cut out to be a doctor, and for most people that has nothing to do with work ethic. The fact is, not everyone is afforded the same opportunities in life. And even the ones who ARE afforded those opportunities, not everyone WANTS to be a damn doctor or lawyer. Not everyone WANTS to drive a Ferrari and live in a mansion. They just want to live a happy, healthy life. Yet those people are snubbed and looked down on by the rest of society as "freeloaders" simply because they don't have some ridiculous desire to be rich and famous.

    If minimum wage had stayed true to inflation, it would be over $20/hr, and we're demonizing people who make $7.25/hr while the corporations that they work for are turning $billions per quarter. And yes, mom and pop shops would struggle to pay employees that much money. Why? I'm going to put a spoiler in here because I can already tell that the tl;dr's are gonna berate me otherwise.

    Mom&Pops
    Because the major corporations have driven the prices so far into the ground that there is no profit margin for mom and pop's. Last I heard, and I have no direct source for this because it was disclosed in a business meeting in the company I worked for that dealt with Wal-Mart, Wal-Mart actually LOSES money on 7% of it's sales. While they lose a few pennies on the deodorant they sell you, they make twice as many pennies on the TV they sell you, and they make 3 more pennies on that hair drier. Added up across the millions of sales per day, you do the math. The major corporations deal in quantity, not quality. They drive the profit margins so low that no mom and pop can afford to pay more than $7.25/hr, and then, the corps that CAN afford to pay more don't have to. They only have to pay $7.26/hr and make you feel like they're doing you a favor. They're pissing on your back while telling you it's raining.


    With all that being said, or not if you chose not to read it, we all need to quit looking down on people in low wage jobs. They are human beings just like you and I. They have the same responsibilities and wishes for a happy life as the rest of us. So quit treating them like they're scumbags because they drew the short straw.

    /end rant

  2. #102
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    When I was studying I landed my first flexijob at a McDonalds restaurant, which paid at the time £5/hour ($8.57). The people and banter were fantastic, great nights out etc - However the work is pure slavery.
    They expect their workers to go on their breaks at the managers own accord, when the restaurant is not busy. On my days off college I would have worked from 4PM to 3.30AM with only a single half an hour break some days (Plus a short 5 minute smoke break at 12, Closing time).
    I can't blame the workers demanding a higher wage, it certainly isn't an easy job. Especially when you're having to deal with food being thrown at you, being held up by someone with a machete and working 8-12 hour shifts while working 6-8 struggling hours without your break being given to you. (Based on my own experience, I'm sure others will vary)

    It's a suitable job for a student, working short shifts that suit them- Which in respect to McDonalds, they do offer. However, for a full-time job this is a NO-GO and should be paid a lot higher than it currently is.

    Now I work two jobs earning an average of what would be the equivalent to $25/hour, one of which is the police force - Having to deal with fatalities, giving out bad news, criminals and my other part time job includes working labour. Both jobs are less mentally straining that working at McDonalds restaurants.
    Last edited by Truncheon; 07-07-2014 at 11:36 PM.

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Truncheon View Post
    When I was studying I landed my first flexijob at a McDonalds restaurant, which paid at the time £5/hour ($8.57). The people and banter were fantastic, great nights out etc - However the work is pure slavery.
    They expect their workers to go on their breaks at the managers own accord, when the restaurant is not busy. On my days off college I would have worked from 4PM to 3.30AM with only a single half an hour break some days (Plus a short 5 minute smoke break at 12, Closing time).
    I can't blame the workers demanding a higher wage, it certainly isn't an easy job. Especially when you're having to deal with food being thrown at you, being held up by someone with a machete and working 8-12 hour shifts while working 6-8 struggling hours without your break being given to you. (Based on my own experience, I'm sure others will vary)

    It's a suitable job for a student, working short shifts that suit them- Which in respect to McDonalds, they do offer. However, for a full-time job this is a NO-GO and should be paid a lot higher than it currently is.

    Now I work two jobs earning an average of what would be the equivalent to $25/hour, one of which is the police force - Having to deal with fatalities, giving out bad news, criminals and my other part time job includes working labour. Both jobs are less mentally straining that working at McDonalds restaurants.

    Should a company be responsible for paying the employees a wage that the employee needs?

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    Should a company be responsible for paying the employees a wage that the employee needs?
    Should the employees be responsible for finding a job that suits them better instead of complaining that something you could train a chimpanzee to do pays poorly?




    Working fast food sucks, I took a second job on top of my IT job to make extra money at Wendys. I didn't want to work there, I used it as a "motivator" for my boss who immediately gave me a $3 raise and told me to work as much overtime as i want.

    I'm not a genius but I have a set of skills that I'm continuing to develop which will make me more and more valuable in my field.

    Please tell me how a 30 year career of burger flipping can make you "more valuable" to anyone? Unless ofc your wife likes mcPattys and is a mcFatty

  5. #105
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    If you dont like the wage, don't work there. Its a pure labour market monopsony model, to weaken the monopsony power all you have to do is lower the supply of the workers, and in response they would have to offer an increased total payment package (pecuniary and non pecuniary) in order to maintain operation. Basic economics . Anyway, this is economics, who gives a shit about employees as long as you make more money, the only reason people treat their employees better is because they tend to be more productive and as a result Unit Labour Costs actually fall. In other words, if you complain about the low pay, then dont work there.

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enslaved View Post
    Anyway, this is economics, who gives a shit about employees as long as you make more money
    Welcome to the world of business.

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    I have a similar job to a mcdonalds worker. In Canada the minimum wage is $11 something. I would have been okay with $10.25 (previous minimum wage). The job is not hard and personally it doesn't deserve anything above minimum wage. I don't see why the unskilled push for more than they deserve
    You have permission to steal anything I've ever made...

  8. #108
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    I currently work there. I don't think I deserve $15 an hour. I don't want the prices of burgers to rise then screw over a lot of mcdonalds' causing people to lose jobs and have my taxes pay for their unemployment because they don't want to find new jobs.

  9. #109
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    I know that this thread is actually pretty old, but the discussion has continued every few months, so I feel justified in posting.

    Quote Originally Posted by Enslaved View Post
    If you dont like the wage, don't work there.
    I'd just like to say that arguments like that really grind me the wrong way. Sometimes we don't have a choice, sometimes we just have to accept what we can find in order to get by. As @Gunner said above, not everyone wants to go to university/college and become rich, and no matter what happens, someone has to do the regular jobs that no one else wants to do. It used to be the idea that unskilled, low wage jobs were meant for high school students and the like, but that is simply no longer applicable. The economy in the US is so bad that supposedly "unskilled" jobs are being filled by overqualified people who can't find a job anywhere else because there are none. Low-skilled jobs still require people to work full-time to, and those full-time workers aren't high school students, they're people old enough to be out of school who actually have bills to pay and mouths to feed. The minimum wage in the US is pathetic, and no one so far in this thread has actually made any decent argument for why it's acceptable.

    As for a rise in minimum wage causing a rise in the cost of living that negates the minimum wage rise, that's just crap spouted by corporations and their political supporters with no basis in reality or historical precedent. Whenever the minimum wage in Australia has been raised, the cost of living has only increased by roughly 10-15% comparative to the wage increase. An item that may have cost $5 prior to the wage increase will cost $5.10 after it. Meanwhile, the minimum wage worker has more money to spend and uses that money to improve their standard of living, which then stimulates the economy and benefits the entire nation.

    I'm not sure how many Aussies we have on this forum, but most of you will probably know anyway that Australia came out of the GFC almost unscathed. This was because the government at the time used the budget surplus to stimulate the economy and keep it going by giving a sum of money to every person that met certain criteria (the vast majority of the population). People didn't just save the money because they were worried about the GFC, they went out and spent it (as they were encouraged to do) which kept the economy alive. The point I'm making is that when people have money to spend on their quality of life, they spend it, and it has only positive affects on the economy.

    Everybody wins.

  10. #110
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    what a bs, i dont earn 26 dollar a day ........ I must feel like a chineese one now

  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by Incurable View Post
    I know that this thread is actually pretty old, but the discussion has continued every few months, so I feel justified in posting.



    I'd just like to say that arguments like that really grind me the wrong way. Sometimes we don't have a choice, sometimes we just have to accept what we can find in order to get by. As @Gunner said above, not everyone wants to go to university/college and become rich, and no matter what happens, someone has to do the regular jobs that no one else wants to do. It used to be the idea that unskilled, low wage jobs were meant for high school students and the like, but that is simply no longer applicable. The economy in the US is so bad that supposedly "unskilled" jobs are being filled by overqualified people who can't find a job anywhere else because there are none. Low-skilled jobs still require people to work full-time to, and those full-time workers aren't high school students, they're people old enough to be out of school who actually have bills to pay and mouths to feed. The minimum wage in the US is pathetic, and no one so far in this thread has actually made any decent argument for why it's acceptable.

    As for a rise in minimum wage causing a rise in the cost of living that negates the minimum wage rise, that's just crap spouted by corporations and their political supporters with no basis in reality or historical precedent. Whenever the minimum wage in Australia has been raised, the cost of living has only increased by roughly 10-15% comparative to the wage increase. An item that may have cost $5 prior to the wage increase will cost $5.10 after it. Meanwhile, the minimum wage worker has more money to spend and uses that money to improve their standard of living, which then stimulates the economy and benefits the entire nation.

    I'm not sure how many Aussies we have on this forum, but most of you will probably know anyway that Australia came out of the GFC almost unscathed. This was because the government at the time used the budget surplus to stimulate the economy and keep it going by giving a sum of money to every person that met certain criteria (the vast majority of the population). People didn't just save the money because they were worried about the GFC, they went out and spent it (as they were encouraged to do) which kept the economy alive. The point I'm making is that when people have money to spend on their quality of life, they spend it, and it has only positive affects on the economy.

    Everybody wins.
    Please get your economics right, one does not just use a budget surplus to stimulate the economy - having the money to do so does not require a budget surplus. It was stupid giving straight money away, at the time the MPS (even though they were encouraged, they wouldn't unless they were downright stupid) would be too great as a result net fiscal stimulus may be worth less than what was put in. It would have been much better to increase welfare, improve quantitative easing and reduce interest rates whilst setting the money that was to be given away as an investment opportunity where it can be used to create new businesses. This in turn provides jobs and improves confidence even more, with greater confidence, MPS falls and you will get increased multiplier. Minimal wage should not be increased, it would be much better to make the country more competitive at a cost to standards of living in a very short period of time. It is job stability that will increase confidence not a one off bonus that you will never see again with the possibility that you will lose your job the very next day.

  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enslaved View Post
    Please get your economics right, one does not just use a budget surplus to stimulate the economy - having the money to do so does not require a budget surplus. It was stupid giving straight money away, at the time the MPS (even though they were encouraged, they wouldn't unless they were downright stupid) would be too great as a result net fiscal stimulus may be worth less than what was put in. It would have been much better to increase welfare, improve quantitative easing and reduce interest rates whilst setting the money that was to be given away as an investment opportunity where it can be used to create new businesses. This in turn provides jobs and improves confidence even more, with greater confidence, MPS falls and you will get increased multiplier. Minimal wage should not be increased, it would be much better to make the country more competitive at a cost to standards of living in a very short period of time. It is job stability that will increase confidence not a one off bonus that you will never see again with the possibility that you will lose your job the very next day.
    Another Aussie, woo!

    First off, I'm just going to openly admit that I feel like you've studied economics a hell of a lot more than me, but from my understanding of the Labor government's response to the GFC, the stimulus packages did in fact help Australia to avoid recession, keep the economy in growth, and kept unemployment figures down. Australia did incredibly well during the GFC and that was because of the budget surplus being used to stimulate the economy. It's probably arguable that the policy was the best choice at the time, and I don't know enough to argue that it was, but the policies were praised by both the IMF and OECD for their success. The stimulus packages did exactly what they were supposed to do and it stopped Australia from going into recession.

    Regardless, I'm not trying to argue the choices made by the Rudd government, I just think it's a good example of the point I was trying to make: that when people have money, they spend it. It doesn't matter whether that money comes from a stimulus package or an increase in minimum wage, when people have money to spend, the economy grows, and unemployment stays down.

    EDIT: If you feel as though I don't know enough to be able to have a proper discussion with me, feel free to say it. I'm not opposed to being told that I have to learn more in order to properly understand a topic of debate.
    Last edited by Incurable; 09-11-2014 at 01:26 PM.



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  13. #113
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    Im not an aussie. And the IMF praises everyone lol. It even praised Latvia for running itself like a 3rd world country from excessive internal devaluation when it had a tied currency ( it was the only viable option) but it still make the country a depressing place to be and all the skilled workers to migrate out the country to make it even more of a shithole than it already is.

  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enslaved View Post
    Im not an aussie.
    Oops sorry, I figured you were since you knew so much about Labor's stimulus package.

    Quote Originally Posted by Enslaved View Post
    And the IMF praises everyone lol. It even praised Latvia for running itself like a 3rd world country from excessive internal devaluation when it had a tied currency ( it was the only viable option) but it still make the country a depressing place to be and all the skilled workers to migrate out the country to make it even more of a shithole than it already is.
    I know very little about Latvia, and nothing of its economy. I'll take your word for it.



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  15. #115
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    Good ol' capitalism. The working class are paid to produce goods and services which are then sold for a profit. The profit is gained by the capitalists because they can make more money selling what working class have produced than working class cost to buy on the labour market. So, in that sense, 15$/h is overkill. Gotta have more profit. Always profit.


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