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Thread: SRL Botwatch Competition - A new type of competition!

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by NKN View Post
    Dang. Atleast you got the chance, I completely forgot to get the proposal done in time.
    True partners we were.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin View Post
    True partners we were.
    The best were were.

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    Yeah, the deadline for the first draft is unfortunately in the middle of exam season for I'm guessing most people (I have 3 papers due/4 exams this/next week).

    If enough people agree, is it possible to push back the first draft deadline or increase its flexibility, but keep all the other deadlines the same? I'm still very interested in this project, but I just can't prioritize it over schoolwork. I don't think I'm alone in this situation.

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    Man, I wish I would have seen this before. Sounds like fun.
    Away for awhile, life is keeping me busy. | Want to get my attention in a thread? @Kyle Undefined; me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clarity View Post
    Yeah, the deadline for the first draft is unfortunately in the middle of exam season for I'm guessing most people (I have 3 papers due/4 exams this/next week).

    If enough people agree, is it possible to push back the first draft deadline or increase its flexibility, but keep all the other deadlines the same? I'm still very interested in this project, but I just can't prioritize it over schoolwork. I don't think I'm alone in this situation.
    I agree, and I'm actually in the same situation as well. The goal of the first draft deadline is so that staff can ensure that people are on the right track and to provide some preliminary feedback so that people can revise before the final submission, as well as motivate people to not wait until the last second to start.

    I think it would be fair to make the draft submission more flexible, and pushing it back by 1 week seems to be the way to make that happen. I can't push it back more than that, because that would leave only 1 week between the draft and final submissions, and staff will not be able to read the drafts and provide feedback in time for anyone to make any changes, making the draft entirely worthless.

    Also remember that this is just a draft. It doesn't need to be perfect. I welcome feedback/comments on these changes as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyle Undefined View Post
    Man, I wish I would have seen this before. Sounds like fun.
    I wish you'd've seen this before, too.

    Maybe you'll bust out a quick draft in the next week anyway?

    First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.
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  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by core View Post
    I wish you'd've seen this before, too.

    Maybe you'll bust out a quick draft in the next week anyway?
    Psh, I wish. I'm too OCD to throw something together lol.
    Away for awhile, life is keeping me busy. | Want to get my attention in a thread? @Kyle Undefined; me.
    { MSI Phoenix || SRL Stats Sigs || Paste || Scripts || Quotes || Graphics }

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    If you PM me with a stupid question or one listed in FAQ, or about a script that is not mine, I will NOT respond.


    SRL is a Library of routines made by the SRL community written for the Program Simba. We produce Scripts for the game Runescape.


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    Although its a bit late, this may be of some use to participants: http://asp.eurasipjournals.com/conte...009-797159.pdf
    Last edited by Eejit; 04-28-2014 at 10:42 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Mayor View Post
    Lol there is actually quite a bit of literature on runescape and bots in general, even some peer-reviewed stuff.
    Good find! This competition and large prize would not exist if this wasn't a real problem with no published 'modern' solution . A good submission here could easily be a foundation for future work, such as an undergraduate research project. The knowledge gained in the process would also be a great topic of discussion in job interviews and applications.

    The linked projects are good starting points, but their approaches stop short of ideal. They describe reactive systems that process collected data after the fact. They stop short of building on their techniques to flex the capabilities of various tools that are available today.

    An ideal bot detection system would flag the bot as quickly as possible. Then it should cut the time from detection to verification and need minimal human interaction. To do this, the system needs to analyze the data as it comes in in real time, and not introducing much (if any) overhead for the client.

    In other industries, these types of systems exist as solutions to many different problems. In many cases, they operate on much more data than could be generated by the whole of Runescape. From this perspective, it is interesting to see these solutions not perforating this field as much as I would expect them to. Right now there is only one major game developer that I know of that is doing any serious work on this idea.

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    one of the prizes should be a shirt signed by all the cool admins

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    one of the prizes should be a shirt signed by all the cool admins
    Or a job at Jagex It's good to see a competition which will get people thinking about how bot-detection works against some of the different types of bots.. I don't see much specification on the type of bot it's being designed for but I assume people are submitting a bot detection paper specifically targeting one kind of bot.
    Last edited by Krazy_Meerkat; 05-15-2014 at 08:02 AM.

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    Have presentations started yet?

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    Easy, prevention before removal; cripple injection/reflection bots by creating a launcher for the game which randomises the gamepack completely upon launch every time. That way the only java bots that would work are ones that include the updater in the bot and the updaters would have to be 100% flawless. Then spam the game with random events that are near to impossible for scrapers to complete. Alternatively, rewrite the whole of RS in C using a DirectX/mantle engine; that way performance would be increased whilst also making it far harder to inject into. Then just pwn the scrapers again with randoms

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    Quote Originally Posted by fish1328 View Post
    Easy, prevention before removal; cripple injection/reflection bots by creating a launcher for the game which randomises the gamepack completely upon launch every time. That way the only java bots that would work are ones that include the updater in the bot and the updaters would have to be 100% flawless. Then spam the game with random events that are near to impossible for scrapers to complete. Alternatively, rewrite the whole of RS in C using a DirectX/mantle engine; that way performance would be increased whilst also making it far harder to inject into. Then just pwn the scrapers again with randoms
    Rewriting the whole game in C is completely impractical, the whole reason Jagex keeps Java is so it runs in the browser and to keep cross platform support (Easily)(not to mention the amount of time it takes to write bigger programs in C vs Java)

    And then players would suffer from annoying random events..
    Last edited by masterBB; 05-19-2014 at 08:07 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    Rewriting the whole game in C is completely impractical, the whole reason Jagex keeps Java is so it runs in the browser and to keep cross platform support (Easily)(not to mention the amount of time it takes to write nigger programs in C vs Java)

    And then players would suffer from annoying random events..
    In which case, they will never truly get rid of bots; as time goes on bots will become cleverer, maybe even self aware. I know that at the minute I, personally, am training a self learning mouse for my java bot, next stop is self learning auto-responder. Once bots are self aware they will be impossible to differentiate from humans

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    Quote Originally Posted by fish1328 View Post
    In which case, they will never truly get rid of bots; as time goes on bots will become cleverer, maybe even self aware. I know that at the minute I, personally, am training a self learning mouse for my java bot, next stop is self learning auto-responder. Once bots are self aware they will be impossible to differentiate from humans
    I don't think they will reach that point anytime soon. And it has been stated many times that Jagex will never get rid of bots ever.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fish1328 View Post
    Easy, prevention before removal; cripple injection/reflection bots by creating a launcher for the game which randomises the gamepack completely upon launch every time. That way the only java bots that would work are ones that include the updater in the bot and the updaters would have to be 100% flawless. Then spam the game with random events that are near to impossible for scrapers to complete. Alternatively, rewrite the whole of RS in C using a DirectX/mantle engine; that way performance would be increased whilst also making it far harder to inject into. Then just pwn the scrapers again with randoms
    What if I had it detect a changed gamepack, upload it to my server, the update does its magic, and outputs the hook file.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NKN View Post
    What if I had it detect a changed gamepack, upload it to my server, the update does its magic, and outputs the hook file.
    Ahh no. I mean the user only comes into contact with the gamepack the launcher has spat out. Which obfuscates it randomly every time it is launched, hence the updater would have to be flawless. But yes, you could take a gamepack and make your bot run off that instead. But that would be completely illegal as you would be distributing Jagex's game

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    I think they are trying to be realistic with this competition fish, as in, something Jagex would evaluate and approve financially. After all, programming time is money.. I don't think a game re-design is in the cards as a potential botwatch proposal.
    Multipliers and other application padding hasn't had much of an effect on the target and has only provoked elitism within the remaining java-bot coders. It also wastes cpu time and bandwidth, which does eventually cancel out any benefits gained by stopping bots (when you start scaling up)..
    Also collecting information and building profiles about player behaviour has to be very lean when you think that thousands of accounts will be online at the same time..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Krazy_Meerkat View Post
    Or a job at Jagex It's good to see a competition which will get people thinking about how bot-detection works against some of the different types of bots.. I don't see much specification on the type of bot it's being designed for but I assume people are submitting a bot detection paper specifically targeting one kind of bot.
    My paper will be late since I had exams but my proposed system detects any bot, including complex/human-like ones such as RobotzInDisguise.

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    Alright 4 days past due date!
    @Hobbit;

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    Quote Originally Posted by NKN View Post
    Who's up for working with me?
    <3

    If not, I guess I'll solo this black magic.
    Hey NKN!

    On topic: This is out of my league for sure but I would love to read the outcome!

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    Quote Originally Posted by EvilCabbage View Post
    Hey NKN!

    On topic: This is out of my league for sure but I would love to read the outcome!
    NKN and I were gonna... but then we didn't write the paper in time. Guess we preferred actually programming the results over writing a paper on how we'd do that

    As for the outcome... we're still waiting on the results for almost 3 weeks now...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin View Post
    NKN and I were gonna... but then we didn't write the paper in time. Guess we preferred actually programming the results over writing a paper on how we'd do that

    As for the outcome... we're still waiting on the results for almost 3 weeks now...
    Ohh, I'll check out your scripts then instead hehe

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    Quote Originally Posted by EvilCabbage View Post
    Ohh, I'll check out your scripts then instead hehe
    Oh god no. I haven't written or fixed a script in... I wanna say since last year. There are nice concepts in some of them, but NONE of them will work if you wanna use any of them.

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