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Thread: The new RiD Genesis. (again)

  1. #26
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    There is no 'team' in RiD lol. One man and his scripting skills with a whole horde of followers. I cannot express how much I appreciate the informative non biased reviews.

    Also Genesis claims that eventually, this will be able to bot any game that is grinding based, WoW for instance, if that is the case have any of you guys tried any scripting like it?

    @Clarity it seems you really took to scripting, good luck with the biometric capturing!
    Only the weak surrender.
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    As my username suggests I am a member on RiD forums but even for me I am frustrated with the progress of Genesis. For the amount of money I am sure he has and the amount of time I imagine it might take, I can't help but think he has lost motivation over time or has just been lazy with how much time he dedicates to it.
    Solar from RiD.

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    I used to be on the RiD hypetrain, until I found this wonderful site, I won't go back. I'm in process of even making a script!

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    RiD was great.... when bot nuke happened.

    Simba was great... still is.

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  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Mayor View Post
    lmao, just got permed at RiD

    You obviously deserved it, you did "." on RID's forum. How could you expect to get away with doing "."

  7. #32
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    Lol no way did you get permabanned! How did that come about?
    Only the weak surrender.
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  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by BottingFTW View Post
    Lol no way did you get permabanned! How did that come about?
    Caution, strong language
    Last edited by Frement; 10-05-2014 at 12:46 AM.
    There used to be something meaningful here.

  9. #34
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    [QUOTE=Frement;1312178]Caution, strong language.
    Lol seriously? For saying that he get permed?
    Only the weak surrender.
    .

  10. #35
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  11. #36
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    definitely potential there & kudos to him, but it seems like he's marketing longterm ambitions as though they're just about to be coming to fruition.

  12. #37
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    I just went over there all innocent-like to see what all the fuss was about It seems the genesis "delays" are a very sensitive topic and they have a very low tolerance for any criticism.

  13. #38
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    Ahhh. The Mayor, you never seize to entertain me XD

    I guess the community over there are just really good at being patient and see something we don't. Oh well, when it is released I'll be very interested on how it performs.

    Can't get over the fact you said it's a glorified mouse recorder

    Had me in tears

  14. #39
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    I'll believe it when I see it. It sounds like concepts people were throwing around back in the RSCA days.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brandon View Post
    IIRC, it was stated by one of the guys who came over here that.. and I quote: "You don't need to know programming to use it".. "You won't have to write any code".

    I'd love for that guy to explain this:

    [redacted for length]

    because that right there.. is practically the heart of programming. I mean, if my mom knew logical and bitwise operations, I'd let her write all my code.
    You don't need to do any of that, as it's all optional for those who want to fine tune their bot. You can get a fully working bot simply by letting it watch you play. It even says exactly that in one of the threads you linked.
    Last edited by Green!; 10-13-2014 at 07:50 PM.

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    @Those commenting on the missed ETAs (definitely see the bottom one):

    Quote Originally Posted by RiD
    I still have a fair bit of interface work to do, and there's various rough edges that need to be smoothed out, and it's still difficult to predict anything. What I can confirm, is that I will not try to be too elaborate at this point. It's business time, and I won't be spontaneously adding in anything huge that will extend release by several months at this point.

    Ideally, we'll be into the beta testing phase by Christmas, and during that process we'll begin to get an accurate idea where we are in terms of final release date.

    So my advice for anyone checking this thread constantly for updates, would be to come back and check this thread around Christmas time, and see what the news is by then.

    Thanks again everybody for your patience.
    Quote Originally Posted by RiD
    I was hoping to release some functionality last Christmas, but it would have been a hybrid of the old and new systems and would have been fairly limited and distracted from the main Genesis project. Ultimately that idea was thrown out.

    Regarding Genesis, yes we've seen a few extensions now, but any predictions I've made have always been with the caveat that the plans are fluid and subject to change. For example, draft 1 Genesis used a 'landmark' system to control navigation, where each time a user would make a bot they had to point out landmarks on the map, manually. Then had to assign a grid position to each landmark, and the bot could still get lost if no landmarks were visible on-screen.
    Extending the release has allowed the development of the 'internal GPS' system, where the bot can read maps and landscapes, in real-time. It's a significant upgrade on draft 1, and there have been a few other areas I've been able to improve since draft 1.

    We're actually on draft 3 now, but the end result will be significantly better than it would have been, had we focused purely on a quick release.

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    Quote Originally Posted by uhit View Post
    Ahhh. The Mayor, you never seize to entertain me XD

    I guess the community over there are just really good at being patient and see something we don't. Oh well, when it is released I'll be very interested on how it performs.

    Can't get over the fact you said it's a glorified mouse recorder

    Had me in tears
    We do, I've used RiD for 4 years, and I've never received a ban or warning, or anything. There's only been a handful of bans on RiD, the veterans of the RiD community have trust in RiD, as we've had the past 4 years.

    I have trust in RiD, and I can understand how someone else who isn't a veteran of RiD or used his bots can believe it's just a marketing scheme.


    My main thing with Simba, is that you need a really really really good script to not receive a ban. Personally I've gotten many bans from using Simba, even from the most popular scripts. You either need to have a private scripter or know how to script to create a bot that won't get you a ban. So in the end players come to use bots because they don't want to spend the time grinding the game, which is fair, however with Simba you need to figure out a new programming language, and spend several weeks learning it. Which isn't appealing. I've tried programming with Simba in the past, and to correctly emulate Human Mouse movements for a good solid script is a pain and will take time. Once SRL is updated enough to make it a lot easier, something simple as "HumanMoveMouse(true, left);", I don't see why someone should use Simba if they don't want bans. Random Mouse Movements isn't Human.

    I've suggested others in the RiD Chatbox to check out Simba, and see if it's to their liking over TriBot and PowerCrap.

    In the end I will choose RiD over Simba, because I have used RiD for 4 years, and I have trust in the programmer. We've waited a year+ before for him to revamp all of his bots, and in the end he comes out with what he promised.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brandon View Post
    Now to explain one flaw in his "states".. He has:

    1. Look for inventory item.
    2. Wait until state change.
    3. Login button.

    The flaw is that there is no timeout for waiting on the state change. Something that you'd need to input manually because his interface has no such thing and we all know infinite loops are bad (most of the time).. right?

    He has timers but his timers are for doing a task on tick and not for dispatching/breaking a state.
    There are timeouts waiting on the state changes as well as for dispatching/breaking a state (RiD has stated this himself). However, they are not shown to users in the interface. The idea is to have a simple interface to allow users to add or modify parts of the bot without having to recalibrate. The interface will also allow you to define new environments (i.e. for other games), and that process will be detailed in part 3 of the thread when it is released. I'll state again that modifying the bot is not required at all. A novice user could simply calibrate then start their bot immediately without making changes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Twinki View Post
    I have trust in RiD, and I can understand how someone else who isn't a veteran of RiD or used his bots can believe it's just a marketing scheme.
    Yeah this was my thinking (as a vet myself) until I realized it was a waste of money for somewhat increased quality, when everything here is free and ultimately more customizable than genesis. Plus, here you receive incredible, personal education in numerous languages depending on what you choose to pursue here (writing scripts, extensions, modding Simba, web server/live stats creation, etc).

    Also, I've some have asked why I've gone quiet on my long term script projects (DG, etc)...I've taken an interest in making some tools after the DTM Generator. Expect free public release of this in a month or so:




    While this will automatically add my biometric antiban to generated scripts (entirely designed in GUI), users will have the benefit of seeing the exported script to modify as they please.

    Additionally, there will be a tutorial mode that will explain exactly how things are being added to a script when done via Origins.
    The main purpose of this will be to make learning to script less intimidating for newcomers, while at the same time giving shortcut tools to experienced scripters who know everything but cba to write yet another paintProgress or while attempts < 5 do if findColorsSpiralTolerance then etc. procedure.
    Last edited by Clarity; 10-13-2014 at 08:20 PM.

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clarity View Post
    Yeah this was my thinking (as a vet myself) until I realized it was a waste of money for somewhat increased quality, when everything here is free and ultimately more customizable than genesis. Plus, here you receive incredible, personal education in numerous languages depending on what you choose to pursue here (writing scripts, extensions, modding Simba, web server/live stats creation, etc).

    Also, expect free public release in a month or so:

    The issue is you have botters who are not willing to learn a programming language. As much as I believe it is something you should learn as we are getting into a very techy generation, people don't have the time or just aren't willing to. I don't have the patience to learn Pascal and script with Simba, I tried and I didn't like it. For a botter who doesn't want to spend time on learning how to script, RiD is the choice.

    However Genesis may take that place, as it will be simple, and yet have that option to customize it. I have faith in RiD, and I believe if he doesn't complete his goal he will refund anyone who wants a refund, there's already been several Unlimited Refunds in the past few months.

    I like the users work here, but it isn't appealing to botters who just want to bot and not be banned.

    So I hope you guys can successfully come out with the stuff I've seen users make threads about, I think it'd be a big step for Simba.

  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clarity View Post
    That's what biometric capture is. Every person has their own fingerprint when using a mouse or keyboard. Next-gen security is taking this direction as well. It's very possible, existing currently in a lot of non-botting related software and research projects. I'm developing it for Simba, because once this sort of thing is implemented, botting becomes truly undetectable apart from inhuman playing times and perhaps detecting clients, which are easily fixed by the user (browser botting and limiting usage).

    And if we really want to be squeaky clean perfect, spoofing a USB mouse driver or something instead of sendInput.

    Frequently I get a response on this project like I'm going overkill on antiban, but I say to that...why not just go all the way, if we can, and we have nothing to lose other than defense against any Botwatch system Jagex may update in the future?
    This comment I'm about to make is off-topic, frankly I do not care since this RID topic is a recurring bore...

    Clarity, I'm interested in what you're doing here. I once worked on a project in simba that tracked how I did certain tasks and tried to emulate it so my scripts would "play like i do". Just shoot me a PM or email me.
    Last edited by footballjds; 10-13-2014 at 08:24 PM.

  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Green! View Post
    You don't need to do any of that, as it's all optional for those who want to fine tune their bot. You can get a fully working bot simply by letting it watch you play. It even says exactly that in one of the threads you linked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Green! View Post
    There are timeouts waiting on the state changes as well as for dispatching/breaking a state (RiD has stated this himself). However, they are not shown to users in the interface. The idea is to have a simple interface to allow users to add or modify parts of the bot without having to recalibrate. The interface will also allow you to define new environments (i.e. for other games), and that process will be detailed in part 3 of the thread when it is released. I'll state again that modifying the bot is not required at all. A novice user could simply calibrate then start their bot immediately without making changes.
    And you have a quote for these claims? You're the same guy that said no programming knowledge is required. That's obviously not the case. If it isn't shown to the user in the interface, then it simply doesn't exist. If it's not in the interface then it requires CODING; which you said wasn't required.

    How can you explain it "not being in the interface displayed to the user" and "No coding required" at the same time then?

    "Modify" parts of the bot without having to re-calibrate it. Really? The entire bot requires calibration in the first place. If you're not calibrating it, you're coding it. If you're not coding it, how exactly are you modifying it?

    Surely you see the dilemma here?
    Last edited by Brandon; 10-13-2014 at 08:28 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Green! View Post
    You don't need to do any of that, as it's all optional for those who want to fine tune their bot. You can get a fully working bot simply by letting it watch you play. It even says exactly that in one of the threads you linked.
    Much of what Brandon was pointing out was the mere logistics of how it could accomplish all the things it claims by simply watching you play. I could see much of it (although wow, there would be some ridiculous calculations to create the bitmaps necessary for many of the described capabilities - that doesn't make them impossible). But what I can't see is it accomplishing this in real-time. While it 'watches you play' it would have to build up a massive RAM storage and spend hours decoding your activity to make a resulting script. I honestly doubt 16GB of RAM would be enough to create a script of any large size like Slayer or any other large activity.

  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brandon View Post
    And you have a quote for these claims? You're the same guy that said no programming knowledge is required. That's obviously not the case. If it isn't shown to the user in the interface, then it simply doesn't exist. If it's not in the interface then it requires CODING; which you said wasn't required.

    How can you explain it "not being in the interface displayed to the user" and "No coding required" at the same time then?

    "Modify" parts of the bot without having to re-calibrate it. Really? The entire bot requires calibration in the first place. If you're not calibrating it, you're coding it. If you're not coding it, how exactly are you modifying it?

    Surely you see the dilemma here?
    Well for one RiD isn't done, he still has work to do on the interface. This is only the alpha version, however he's confirmed that there will not be coding required for a normal user to run the bot.

    How it'll work is there will be a button in the GUI to record you playing Runescape, the bot will watch your movements and what you do, and everything, then emulate it, but will act just like if you were playing the game, so say if a random pops up it'll solve that random, if there is something wrong it'll fix it. However, if there is something wrong with the bot, you can easily change it in the other GUI sections. So something like adding valuable drops could be added as a state.

    RiD's bots weren't necessarily scripts, they were basically AI's. He's practically creating an AI that will watch you play and say "Hey, I can do that now that I've learned how to!"

    People have created Robots with AI's that learn from what they see, RiD is creating a virtual robot that does the same thing, but for games. It's very much possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Twinki View Post
    Well for one RiD isn't done, he still has work to do on the interface. This is only the alpha version, however he's confirmed that there will not be coding required for a normal user to run the bot.

    How it'll work is there will be a button in the GUI to record you playing Runescape, the bot will watch your movements and what you do, and everything, then emulate it, but will act just like if you were playing the game, so say if a random pops up it'll solve that random, if there is something wrong it'll fix it. However, if there is something wrong with the bot, you can easily change it in the other GUI sections. So something like adding valuable drops could be added as a state.

    RiD's bots weren't and aren't a script, RiD programs AI's. He is creating an AI that will watch you play and say "Hey, I can do that now that I've learned how to!"

    People have created Robots with AI's that learn from what they see, RiD is creating a virtual robot that does the same thing, but for games. It's very much possible.

    People created what? You mean massive companies like Intel and IBM. Not regular people like RID. A single person does not achieve such a feat, described in his posts (in a few months).

    1. No programming or scripting required. A regular user doesn't even need knowledge of it (then explain the logical operators?)
    2. Just calibrations required.
    3. There's a GUI for every scenario and glitch that could occur.
    4. There's a landscaper that works so fast with little memory usage.
    5. It detects your positions with no mistakes (anywhere).
    6. To get all these wonderful features, just let it watch you play.
    7. If there is a glitch or mistake or you mis-clicked something while playing, you can patch it through an interface that somehow is designed for such a scenario that you can patch it without coding. You know.. Just time skip the glitch part right? Everything will still run smoothly.
    8. There's a state breaking dispatch system but isn't displayed to the user and requires no coding to modify it.
    9. All of this works in a Java virtual machine and is on par with Reflection & Injection bots.. Hell.. it's faster than Simba's COMPILED code and plugins (SPS) and has all of the above features.. all designed by RID himself. No OpenCV; nothing..
    10. Works for any and EVERY game.

    Even IBM Watson required dictionaries to play Jeopardy and was very specific to that game. It even required RE-CALIBRATION to become a medical specialist. We're talking about a regular bot that runs for any game and can run on all computers. Even Matthew Fischer's Starcraft AI isn't as advanced as what RID is describing.. And let me tell you.. that's the most advanced gaming AI on the internet thus far: http://graphics.stanford.edu/~mdfish...terceptor.html and http://graphics.stanford.edu/~mdfisher/GameAIs.html and even then, this AI is GAME SPECIFIC and requires HOOKS. Something RID's bots does NOT have.. RID's bots does not even have Regression learning.. come on.. It's literally described as a recorder. He hasn't even said a word about designing an engine..

    I'm going to have to pass on this one. I don't mean any dis-repect to him or anyone.. but I say it how I see it. Let me just say one thing, this bot most likely uses Java's 2D Graphics (AKA WinAPI/X11.. not Direct-X, not OpenGL.. plain old WinAPI/X11).
    Last edited by Brandon; 10-13-2014 at 09:24 PM.
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