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Thread: Permanent Ban, did ban stem from client detection?

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    Default Permanent Ban, did ban stem from client detection?

    I was really surprised to find one of my accounts I barely play on to have a permanent ban offense.
    I do not recall ever botting on this account, but I have played using the SMART client and maybe topbot's client.
    I remember reading somewhere on this forum that Jagex can detect the clients.
    Can someone provide more detail or information on how exactly jagex does this?
    Are there anyways to thwart this type of detection like browser automation instead?
    I was planning on writing some runescape bot scripts, but if Jagex can simply distinguish the difference between clients whats the point?

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    If they can detect it why they don't ban everyone who is using S.M.A.R.T ? I've been using it since January and I have no problems at all. I think in your case the reason is using topbots client. If Jagex could detect SMART 99% of us would be banned.

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    I have no idea man. Maybe my account got hacked? I know 100% I never botted on this acc. I was really shocked to find out I got perma banned. There have been alot of threads online talking about how Jagex could detect the client. Atm my verdict is the client got detected, but I have no clue how they could detect the client if I wasn't botting???

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    Thats weird, because most ppl who bot using SMART don't get banned, even get 120s and those who claim that they use it to play legit are beeing banned immediately. It doesn't make any sense at all, don't take my words as an attack on you, it's just Jagex acting irrational. Maybe they know exactly how many players are using smart and don't want to ban them all because many of them have 10y accounts, buy membership and don't get any financial profits from botting because they dont rwt. This would be an explanation. Anyway I'm sorry for your loss man.

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    Actually I didn't invest too much in this account, however it was a very old account I think I made it during the start of f2p for OSRS. Maybe I was manually banned for skilling and they looked my total level and play time and determined they were suspiciously low? Who knows it could've been a multitude of things, but even those chances or low? Anyways the main aspect I am worried about is the possibility Jagex can ban players through client detection. Not really worried about anything else and am pretty shocked about this ban. There are many ways for me to test this, I can create some automated scripts and experiment and possibly see what is triggering these bans. However, I'm not a proficient programmer and don't understand many low level programming concepts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by scob View Post
    If they can detect it why they don't ban everyone who is using S.M.A.R.T ? I've been using it since January and I have no problems at all. I think in your case the reason is using topbots client. If Jagex could detect SMART 99% of us would be banned.
    They can and do detect SMART right @Olly;
    #slack4admin2016
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    <slacky> I will ban reflection and OGL hooking until we know what the hell is going on

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    Quote Originally Posted by zeckrule View Post
    I remember reading somewhere on this forum that Jagex can detect the clients.
    Can someone provide more detail or information on how exactly jagex does this?
    They check if the client was modified. They collect data on garbage collection frequency. They check OS version. They probably do some other stuff but that's all I know of.

    Quote Originally Posted by zeckrule View Post
    Are there anyways to thwart this type of detection like browser automation instead?
    They check if the client was modified to try to detect injection bots. However, the bot can just change this function to return the correct data of an unmodified client.
    Garbage collection frequency can be spoofed or you could use cross-jvm reflection or something similar so the bot doesn't increase the gc rate.
    OS version can be spoofed using injection so they can't tell you are running the game on a vps.

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    I don't think they ban people just for using a client. The safest method of botting is probably using color on osbuddy client with frequent breaks

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    Jagex sometimes get it wrong and ban for no reason, I tried introducing my friend to the game, he played 10 minutes after tutorial didn't like it and never logged back on. Few months later I decide to make a new account build, go to use the account and it's permed for botting, never botted once, hardly even played on for 10 minutes.

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    As harrier as said, yes, they can detect SMART. The real question is 'do they?' and 'do they care?'

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    Quote Originally Posted by Turpinator View Post
    As harrier as said, yes, they can detect SMART. The real question is 'do they?' and 'do they care?'
    That's the problem...why would anyone else use such clients. There isn't a doubt on my mind they check for this if this is an option lying around for them. Whats more frustrating is that Jagex will not disclose the evidence that triggered my ban . So how would one go about avoiding client detection? Shouldn't everyone be more paranoid about this? Jagex can clearly see that you are using some sort of a bot client!!! They could literally ban or monitor you more for this!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Turpinator View Post
    As harrier as said, yes, they can detect SMART. The real question is 'do they?' and 'do they care?'
    If they flag account as suspected (e.x. when it was reported for botting by many players) they could check for botting client as a part of further investigation. It would explain why not everyone using SMART is permabanned.

    Although I remember one injection bot, when you got instant ban just for logging through it. It maybe the case that SMART is harder to detect, so they need more resources to analyze the data - so this checking process is turned off by default.

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    Well i recently purchased and built a new PC. decided i would use ineedbots tutorial runner.. start a small farm mostly to see how many and how well my new rig handles multiple versions of smart...

    I came back within 72 hours to one account banned.. the rest have all been banned since. I created a new acc manually walked through tutorial island - started botting it. bam!. 48 hours later another ban. running more than three clients at a time was stupid. (I did have a bucket load of clients up) I am absolutely sure this is an IP flag / related ban.

    I have lost more accounts in the past week then in my entire RS career.

    In response to SMART being flagged.. I STRONGLY disagree with this. I have little doubt SMART is the sole reason one would be banned - maybe secondary at most.. Should you have 10+ accs on the same IP they may check for a modified client or trying to appeal a ban - from a known IP

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    Quote Originally Posted by AFools View Post
    In response to SMART being flagged.. I STRONGLY disagree with this. I have little doubt SMART is the sole reason one would be banned - maybe secondary at most.. Should you have 10+ accs on the same IP they may check for a modified client or trying to appeal a ban - from a known IP
    With NAT though, IP addresses (well, ipv4) are useless. My isp has everyone on the same IP. And by that, i mean thousands of people.

    So sure, they may use IP addresses to investigate (as its easy to log them), but as i think, hopefully everyone has realized by now, they wont ban solely by IP.

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    I'm pretty sure they may ban you just for using SMART, recently I got an account banned, the account had 1 botting offence that I received in june 2015, after that I did not bot on the account anymore and was really letting it stay dormant, recently I logged back on just do some some f2p pking on the official client, a few days after that I logged in on it using SMART just to transfer a couple weapons to a noob account I was training, then I go to login about a week ago and I'm perm banned with 2 new botting offences for the same date, I know 100% I didn't bot on this account and after logging in using SMART I'm banned.

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    I think it's important to assume that jagex detects bots in stages. IP flagging and client detection are definitely used to identify suspected accounts, but neither are used frequently to outright ban on their own. They most definitely care about alternative clients or otherwise they wouldn't of taken the step to detect them. It's just more data to use to profile potential bots. If it was feasible for them to perform realtime analysis of every player's actions, they wouldn't need to collect data for profiling. Avoiding client profiling is something serious to consider when botting on valuable accounts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by maven View Post
    I think it's important to assume that jagex detects bots in stages. IP flagging and client detection are definitely used to identify suspected accounts, but neither are used frequently to outright ban on their own. They most definitely care about alternative clients or otherwise they wouldn't of taken the step to detect them. It's just more data to use to profile potential bots. If it was feasible for them to perform realtime analysis of every player's actions, they wouldn't need to collect data for profiling. Avoiding client profiling is something serious to consider when botting on valuable accounts.
    Or maybe they are able to ban every bot if they wanted, but don't because then they'd lose so many players.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kristi View Post
    Or maybe they are able to ban every bot if they wanted, but don't because then they'd lose so many players.
    I think this is a valid point. I read on reddit all the time people calling for all the bots to be banned, now I do agree that there are far too many farming bots but the economy for the people complaining would be extremely expensive if they didn't exist.

    Also, like Kristi said, if they banned all of the accounts that were botting they'd be losing a lot of money on their part. Maybe they have a quota to reach, they know that if they ban 100 bots a week it's still profitable for the bot farm owners to start up new accounts and subscribe 100 times again (ban, rinse and repeat). However, if they start banning more, lets say 500 a week, the bot farm owners may not resubscribe new accounts and just leave for another game meaning Jagex is out of pocket.

    They probably don't focus on people using SMART as much because it's (mostly) just independent gains which yes they may not "tolerate" but it's not harming the game as much. They're still getting their subscription for now and any future months that the botter is happy using their newly leveled account.

    This being said, it's still a guessing game.

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    We've had this discussion only like 500 million times
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucidity View Post
    We've had this discussion only like 500 million times
    And we'll have it only like 500 million more.

    It's a subject that we all have an interest in, what's the harm in discussing it again?



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    Quote Originally Posted by Incurable View Post
    And we'll have it only like 500 million more.

    It's a subject that we all have an interest in, what's the harm in discussing it again?
    I agree, no harm in discussing it again. Pretty annoying having to read the same points over and over though.

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    Are you sure? because we can. The question is should we talk about it over and over
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    Threads like this just contain people constantly reiterating what has been said before, I don't see the point in constantly making the same assumptions/posts to wind up with the same responses.

    It'd be much easier to discuss it in one thread, in my opinion that is.

    edit: maybe you all see a point to constantly drawing to the same conclusion and I respect that, but isn't efficiency what we're all suppose to be about and not to waste time? There's nothing more to really conclude that it is : [SMART detected, poor script, reported, bad luck, or all of the above] Perhaps I'm just an ass and there's a bigger picture I just don't see it yet

    edit 2: please don't take what I say offensively or anything to a literal extent, of course there's tons of variables at play but due to jagex disclosing no reason on why we get banned (other than botting of course!) we can't really figure it out. We all just know what are the possibilities and safety precautions to take before and after we get banned. I wasn't trying to offend anyone!
    Last edited by Lucidity; 05-16-2016 at 12:59 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucidity View Post
    Threads like this just contain people constantly reiterating what has been said before, I don't see the point in constantly making the same assumptions/posts to wind up with the same responses.

    It'd be much easier to discuss it in one thread, in my opinion that is.

    edit: maybe you all see a point to constantly drawing to the same conclusion and I respect that, but isn't efficiency what we're all suppose to be about and not to waste time? There's nothing more to really conclude that it is : [SMART detected, poor script, reported, bad luck, or all of the above] Perhaps I'm just an ass and there's a bigger picture I just don't see it yet

    edit 2: please don't take what I say offensively or anything to a literal extent, of course there's tons of variables at play but due to jagex disclosing no reason on why we get banned (other than botting of course!) we can't really figure it out. We all just know what are the possibilities and safety precautions to take before and after we get banned. I wasn't trying to offend anyone!
    Maybe people don't realise that it's all been said previously? and are just sparking up conversation with people that may not have seen such a thread before.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joopi View Post
    Are you sure? because we can. The question is should we talk about it over and over
    Well lets get this thread started again .
    if we are going to talk about the same thing we could just copy and paste the other threads, should we not talk about something new, bring up something new. Having a discustion about Jaclib would be nice.
    Make sure to checkout this awesome thinggy too. Great alternative to wasting resources "securing" the bitcoin network.
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