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Thread: Ideal Human Mouse Movement Implementation

  1. #1
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    Im not the OP, @Suburbia created the topic, first post has been deleted?

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    Its been placed in the moderation queue, or something like that. Blame @core;

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    Yeah I can't see it myself. The thread is kind of irrelevant since I talked to BenLand.

    I wasn't aware of the current algorithms being used for mouse movement, and some users claim that mouse movement is hardly taken into account.

    Ultimately I think implementing the approach I suggested couldn't hurt and would be a fun project, but improving mouse movement is not a priority at this time.


    Here is my post:

    Ideal human mouse movement (HMM) in Runescape is generally restricted to three paths:
    1. Horizontal
    2. Vertical
    3. Linear

    This movement can be visualized with a triangle:


    Humans in practice though deviate mildly from linear motion. From my experience bot makers have attempted at mimicking HMM by using curved models like exponential curves or piece-wise linear models. Both of these models are very predictable because:
    1. They involve unnatural movements
    2. They follow strict models

    The three paths mentioned all meet the dirichlet conditions. Ergo I believe that realistic HMM can be generated by utilizing a Fourier series. It may appear that I have neglected the requirement of a periodic function, but that is not an issue for the following reasons:
    - The domain could be infinite for the sake of a modeling a function.
    - For simplicity, movement will be handled on an as-needed basis
    - We can restrict the domain as needed

    Assuming the described method creates realistic HMM our next concern is uniqueness among users. By determining a valid range of Fourier coefficients that meet the desired path and pseudo-random number generation a unique movement can be created for each instance or for each bot. Something as little as a mild deviation in frequency can impact how accurate (triangular) the movement along the path is.

    If you aren't familiar with fourier series the following graphs from wolfram might help:



    Notice how in the images the sinusoidal hugs along the function. The amount of hugging can be varied as I discussed above.

    Thoughts? Why wouldn't this work?

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    Not trying to dismiss this discussion, as I think this kind of thing is fascinating, but just an FYI mouse movements are totally irrelevant for preventing bans on RS3 at least. Someone else can comment on whether they matter for OSRS. We also know that Simba mouse activity is detectable (uses sendInput) so an elaborate mouse movement system would be a waste of effort until that more general problem was solved.

    Source: several people here including myself botting for 3 years+ with teleporting/instant mouse movement with no bans.

    Since Simba is single threaded (barring some pseudo multithread techniques) having mouse movements stalls your script and prevents you from doing anything elaborate, imo.

    Nevertheless, it can't hurt to debate these things and share knowledge.

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    Your post isn't friendly to the layman (not a good idea if you want to spark discussion).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Clarity View Post
    Source: several people here including myself botting for 3 years+ with teleporting/instant mouse movement with no bans.
    So what you're saying is I shouldn't bother doing hmm for my include and use simba ones instead?

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    I don't use mouse movements other than throwing it from point A to B, still haven't been banned.
    Feel free to ask me any questions, I will do my best to answer them!

    Previously known as YouPee.

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    That's a fascinating solution, and I don't see why it shouldn't be used if it is possible.

    No one knows exact methodology to banning a botter, so I think dismissing an obviously better method to do something is just silly.

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    I discussed this further with Ben in the IRC. The idea was dismissed for two reasons:
    1. According to some users/scripters, they do not include any mouse movement and have not received any bans. While it is possible for Jagex to collect this data, it appears they are not collecting it at this time.
    2. The current mouse movement method that Ben has implemented is far more complex than I originally suspected.
    If Jagex starts to collect mouse movement, and Ben's approach is easily detected then it would be time to consider my suggestion.

    Actually there was a third reason. A couple members pointed out that my implementation would require too much CPU usage. I do not agree with the third reason because modern CPUs are so powerful and if the script is not being used for gold farming then being a bit resource heavy shouldn't be problematic.

    All that being said, I think if someone has some free time and is looking for a fun project that is math-heavy then they should give it a go.

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    After reading this thread it made me remember this topic from a little while ago regarding mouse detection: https://villavu.com/forum/showthread...102#post850102
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    your best bet would be to capture lots of legit mouse movements and use a neural network to select the best match for the move you want to make and do any transformations on the path if it needs it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ollie View Post
    your best bet would be to capture lots of legit mouse movements and use a neural network to select the best match for the move you want to make and do any transformations on the path if it needs it.
    Neural Network stuff sounds interesting, do you by any chance have a link to something that explains them relatively concisely? (this is completely unrelated to the thread at hand btw, just curious but too lazy to research on my own lol, all good if you don't have a link you can easily get to post) All I know about them is that they try to emulate a brain and are more efficient at processing certain things.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ollie View Post
    your best bet would be to capture lots of legit mouse movements and use a neural network to select the best match for the move you want to make and do any transformations on the path if it needs it.
    I think if anyone on this website had a great grasp on deep learning, they would be working on more productive projects.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ollie View Post
    your best bet would be to capture lots of legit mouse movements and use a neural network to select the best match for the move you want to make and do any transformations on the path if it needs it.
    In Simba? In real-time? Not gonna happen. Providing a whole bunch of mouse data as input and identifying averages/ranges for a number of mouse parameters is probably the best you're gonna get (basically what Genesis does).

    Quote Originally Posted by acow View Post
    Neural Network stuff sounds interesting, do you by any chance have a link to something that explains them relatively concisely? (this is completely unrelated to the thread at hand btw, just curious but too lazy to research on my own lol, all good if you don't have a link you can easily get to post) All I know about them is that they try to emulate a brain and are more efficient at processing certain things.
    YouTube is your friend. Easily the best way to learn anything in the 21st century, IMO.

    Quote Originally Posted by Suburbia View Post
    I think if anyone on this website had a great grasp on deep learning, they would be working on more productive projects.
    I have no doubt there are members on here that are well versed in these types of mathematics. SRL is easily the most intelligent botting community. It is a matter of interest and time (or lack of). 99% of old members are no longer active on these forums.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Laquisha View Post
    YouTube is your friend. Easily the best way to learn anything in the 21st century, IMO.
    It sure is, however:
    Quote Originally Posted by acow View Post
    curious but too lazy to research on my own
    hence why I asked if he had any links he could [easily] pull up.
    Last edited by acow; 08-30-2016 at 02:44 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by acow View Post
    It sure is, however:

    hence why I asked if he had any links he could [easily] pull up.
    * Opens new tab (2 seconds)
    * Goes to youtube.com (3 seconds)
    * Searches for neural networks (3 seconds)

    8 seconds haha. Took you 30 times longer to write that comment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Laquisha View Post
    * Opens new tab (2 seconds)
    * Goes to youtube.com (3 seconds)
    * Searches for neural networks (3 seconds)

    8 seconds haha. Took you 30 times longer to write that comment.
    Can you take a guess on what the difference between researching something yourself and what I asked might be?

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    Quote Originally Posted by acow View Post
    Can you take a guess on what the difference between researching something yourself and what I asked might be?
    Wikipedia is usually the best bet if you don't want to read 200+ pages or don't want to google

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zyt3x View Post
    Wikipedia is usually the best bet if you don't want to read 200+ pages or don't want to google
    If you're researching it yourself yeah, wikipedia is a good resource to get started.
    ?

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    I doubt it would even reduce ban rate though

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