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Thread: Updating it all (SRL/AL/Simba)

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    Default Updating it all (SRL/AL/Simba)

    Hi guys,
    From what I got we got a couple of things ready:
    • New Simba 1.2
    • SRL-6 thats compatible with Simba 1.2
    • Some kind of SRL-5 for OSRS for current Simba 1.2
    • Possible update for AeroLib?
    • Working reflection include for OSRS
    • Working oGL include for RS3

    Please correct me if I'm wrong on any of those.

    From what I understood Simba 1.2 has a few breaking changes (constref) breaking all current includes. This is not good of course so this update needs to be coordinated.

    Proposal:
    • Get rid of two OSRS includes. Maybe we can merge Aerolib back in that SRL-5 thingy I saw on github? Or other way around? (and please lets keep some kind of consistency in naming between osrs and rs3 srl, 700 lines of wrapper code is annoying to have compatibility with both)
    • Include the OSRS includes, RSWalker and other used stuff in Simba updater
    • Contact leading script authors to make sure they have an updated version (maybe even now with compiler directives)
    • Release all together on d-day after some interface update/after dxp weekend and show we're still alive and kicking

    Thoughts?
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    @Flight; @Wizzup?; @Olly; @nielsie95; and please tag others
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    I think it's a great idea and it does indeed seem like the OSRS field is the only area falling behind in updates and compatibility with newer versions of Simba.

    Quote Originally Posted by Markus View Post
    Proposal:
    • Get rid of two OSRS includes. Maybe we can merge Aerolib back in that SRL-5 thingy I saw on github? Or other way around? (and please lets keep some kind of consistency in naming between osrs and rs3 srl, 700 lines of wrapper code is annoying to have compatibility with both)
    • Include the OSRS includes, RSWalker and other used stuff in Simba updater
    • Contact leading script authors to make sure they have an updated version (maybe even now with compiler directives)
    • Release all together on d-day after some interface update/after dxp weekend and show we're still alive and kicking

    Thoughts?
    For the first suggestion, I agree and I'm alright with SRL-OSR and AeroLib merging into a single fluid include. This will certainly take some work however and a moderate amount of discussion on how much of AeroLib should be retained or ejected. We'll need to get input from multiple people who are both familiar with SRL and OSRS to give thoughts on what's needed and isn't. It should also be discussed if the to-be SRL-OSR included will be completely in Lape format. Also I'd have to agree with having separate includes for RS3 and OSRS. Even just from the idea of it, it seems like a clutter and could become quite confusing for scripters, at least.

    The second suggestion: Absolutely. But if RSWalker were to be added to the Simba updater, I'd imagine this would just be the core functions along with the plugin, where as most of the walking routines would need to included and built with their respective include; SRL-OSR/SRL-6.

    Contacting active scripters; this is a must. It would also be wise to update existing tutorials and release new ones based on the future include. (SRL-OSR in mind)

    A major release date; no objection to that. In the mean time we can release, to an extent, our plans to give scripters/users and idea of what's to come and that it is indeed in development. Spoilers, future updates, new features ect...


    Edit:
    I nearly forgot to post my progress.... I've worked quite a bit on redoing much of AeroLib in its second version, which is pretty much ready to roll out. It does still require plugins such as Slacky's OCR, RSWalker (which comes with the include) and SMART, ect... However I have removed the need for Brandon's ProSocks plugin; I've removed the auto-updater all together. I've also removed the need for the AND_TPA plugin (I cannot recall who's it was off the top of my head) and replaced it with newer TPA-splitting routines in Simba. And I've added Olly's Layer plugin to AeroLib; it will be required for newer debugging and report routines. Also AL 2.0 (along with everything included, such as RSWalker and TMufasaLayer) works with the absolute newest Simba (1.2 RC6 at the moment), I just need to do some cleaning up here and there.

    I plan to release it soon even with the possibility of merging AL and SRL-OSR simply because I'll be moving out of state soon and my schedule will change dramatically. If I'm allotted time or have none at all, I don't know yet. I'm just releasing my work just in case I've no time to work on this merge. If that's the case then the other SRL-Developers have my permission 100% to take whatever you need from AeroLib to put towards this new include, or simply re-shape it into whatever format the majority agrees upon for the official SRL-OSR include. It'll be in good hands either way I'm sure. When I have more info on my personal schedule I'll let you guys know, because I'd sure love to take on this project.
    Last edited by Flight; 02-20-2017 at 07:18 PM.

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    Fon't let me hold you back! Go and get it out Totally understand it all about your schedule and we appreciate all the work.

    Quote Originally Posted by Flight View Post
    For the first suggestion, I agree and I'm alright with SRL-OSR and AeroLib merging into a single fluid include. This will certainly take some work however and a moderate amount of discussion on how much of AeroLib should be retained or ejected. We'll need to get input from multiple people who are both familiar with SRL and OSRS to give thoughts on what's needed and isn't. It should also be discussed if the to-be SRL-OSR included will be completely in Lape format. Also I'd have to agree with having separate includes for RS3 and OSRS. Even just from the idea of it, it seems like a clutter and could become quite confusing for scripters, at least.
    Very interesting point on SRL-OSR in Lape format. Personally I'm not a big fan of the format we have now in SRL-6, as it makes it a real PITA to update old scripts. However, having completely different ways of coding for OSRS and RS3 also isn't desirable.
    There's no good way nor reason to have the includes 100% the same, but the differences are a bit too big atm.

    One solution I can think of is the 'ugly' way:
    • Go with SRL-6 style interfaces in the SRL-ORS/AL merge. It seems to work ok and is probably a lot easier to get to work on resizable client, considering SRL-6 works on NXT too.
    • Create a big, ugly library for backwards compatibility, a bit like the libsrl5 I did a few years ago. Or maybe some kind of automated script-updater, akin to python's 2to3
      Don't forget, we have a huge library of old scripts that still mostly work, especially for OSRS. Breaking compatibility is a non-go to me.

    Please, input on this from anyone who still reads this.

    Few other issues:
    • SPS: Thrash it and replace by RSWalker? (interfaces/maps seem to be mostly compatible)
    • The elephant in the room: what do we do with reflection/ogl?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Markus View Post
    Fon't let me hold you back! Go and get it out Totally understand it all about your schedule and we appreciate all the work.



    Very interesting point on SRL-OSR in Lape format. Personally I'm not a big fan of the format we have now in SRL-6, as it makes it a real PITA to update old scripts. However, having completely different ways of coding for OSRS and RS3 also isn't desirable.
    There's no good way nor reason to have the includes 100% the same, but the differences are a bit too big atm.

    One solution I can think of is the 'ugly' way:
    • Go with SRL-6 style interfaces in the SRL-ORS/AL merge. It seems to work ok and is probably a lot easier to get to work on resizable client, considering SRL-6 works on NXT too.
    • Create a big, ugly library for backwards compatibility, a bit like the libsrl5 I did a few years ago. Or maybe some kind of automated script-updater, akin to python's 2to3
      Don't forget, we have a huge library of old scripts that still mostly work, especially for OSRS. Breaking compatibility is a non-go to me.

    Please, input on this from anyone who still reads this.

    Few other issues:
    • SPS: Thrash it and replace by RSWalker? (interfaces/maps seem to be mostly compatible)
    • The elephant in the room: what do we do with reflection/ogl?
    All great points to consider and discuss because I can see a lot of people voting different ways on the whole Lape format vs. original format ordeal. It's really just a matter of opinion, I myself am not nearly as familiar with it as other users, as is reflected in AeroLib (combination of original & Lape format). I guess one could say AL could help scripters transition from standard to Lape format.

    Regarding he resizable OSRS client, I'm not convinced it's worth pursuing based on the feedback I received when asking others' client setting preferences:
    https://villavu.com/forum/showthread.php?t=117069

    It seems the majority of botters and normal players simply prefer the standard fixed client. I was surprised myself, I even had started redoing much of AL in a separate version of 2.0 to handle dynamic client sizes. I've obviously stopped that project however. So don't let that be a factor in determining the format of the future OSRS include.

    The cache of old scripts, you bet. There's many out there worth updating and bringing back to life, hopefully with minimal modifications. But something to keep in mind is a large number of the original authors of these scripts also are MIA. Just something to consider.

    As far as the OGL & Reflection includes go I don't see any issue with how they operate as of right now. If I'm mistaken they're both classified as Unofficial Development, just as AeroLib, so being independent they wouldn't have much relation to SRL's color-based official includes. I really can't give too much input in this area because I don't work with Reflection nor OGL. Hopefully someone working with one of these two includes could weigh in more.

    Ultimately, as far as format goes, I'm fine which ever way we decide to go as a whole. Hands down I'm more comfortable using the style we've always used in the past in SRL, it certainly seems easier to understand and work with, not to mention teach to others. But on the other hand it doesn't match SRL-6 and would probably cause a lot of frustration/confusion for users and scripters alike who utilize both includes. It's kinda hard to make a solid decision as strong points could be made for both sides.

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    Moved to public as so people working on these projects can see it here.
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    Assuming that I understand the issue being raised correctly, I would like to say, as someone who learnt to script with SRL-6, that I find the style of SRL-6 very intuitive and easy to learn. It's definitely jarring to use AeroLib after using SRL-6, for example, because it's such a drastic style change. That isn't to say that the different style is bad, just that switching from one to the other was inconvenient, at least. I would personally like to see an SRL-OSR include that's written in the same style as SRL-6. Granted, SRL-6 has a billion wrappers for things which seems wonky, but it's incredibly clear what a function named "bankScreen.open()" does, as is the fact that the function can be found in the "bankscreen.simba" file.

    That being said, I'm not the one writing it, so I don't really think that I have the right to say what it should and should not be.



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    I'm pretty new here but here is my opinion on the proposals;

    Get rid of two OSRS includes. Maybe we can merge...: I think this is a great idea, AL is awesome and future scripts would be easier to understand for newcomers imo.

    Include the OSRS includes, RSWalker and other used stuff in Simba updater: I also think this is a good idea, just making it easier for everyone.

    Contact leading script authors to make sure they have an updated version: This should be done before updating just so new people coming will have working scripts the day of the update and them having to wait for script updates wont scare them away. :P

    Release all together on d-day after some interface update/after dxp weekend and show we're still alive and kicking: Would be awesome and would probably get a lot of new people on the forum/using simba.

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    I congratulate you on making a thread about what really matters. Reorganising the include mess will be an incredible amount of effort, however. I’ve posted these sorts of things numerous times but people just seem to avoid the situation as it's too hard to fix. It will probably take several months, not including script writers updating their released scripts (which will probably never happen). It’s a shame things were let to get to the state they are in. Decisions should have been made early on so include developers could have directed their efforts and worked synergistically, not in a self-serving manner. In my opinion, the way forward is SRL; an include that is designed for both RS3 and OSR. One include, easy to update, same coding conventions, one set of all-encompassing tutorials, less confusion, more activity. SRL-6 just needs to be ported over for it to be functional.

    When I saw your other thread about updating some old scripts I was thinking your time would be best spent on the include situation. This is one of those rare occasions where someone with the ability also has the time and the motivation. Just my 2 cents.

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    I've been back working on rs more as of late, so just let me know what needs to be changed in reflection and i'll do it
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    My search skills are weak today. Can't find the thread linking to the version of SRL-6 that is compatible with Simba 1.2. Remember seeing the thread recently but for the life of me can't find it now.

    Link?
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    Has any progress been made? If this breaks compatibility with includes and some plugins then the switch should be made to the newer Lazarus and FPC release.
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    Does anyone have a working sps include for simba 1.2 32bit?

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    RSWalker has no place in the updater, this is because the current mindset is that a library should work on all platforms that Simba support (preferably on Linux as well). RSWalker however is written aimed towards 32bit Java (the mem scanning), and Windows Only - with 32bit Simba version. RSWalker can not without major changes take over the job that SPS does, so it doesn't fit RS3 either. So it has not rendered SPS useless. Second thing is that I can by no means guarantee that I will maintain RSW over time, it just something I wrote to fill in a hole that existed (SPS wasn't working well for OSR).

    There is talk here about SRL-OSR / SRL-5, so I am gonna assume this talk aims towards that include, and not the fresh SRL version aimed towards OSR.

    @Thomas; I doubt anyone has updated SPS, however it should be a very simple task to do, almost weird it doesn't work already (can't imagine more than a few lines that has to be tweaked at most)... unless there are any plugin/FFI related issues, it should be straight forward.
    Last edited by slacky; 06-10-2017 at 04:47 PM.
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    Yes I fixed it. Now it compiles, it just doesnt work perfectly it seems.

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    Hey guys, I'm a bit late getting back on track with this project. I've done some work here and there on AeroLib 2.0 and I'd still like to soon release it. That would give us some updated code to put towards this project, if that is still the plan. However I can help let me know.

    Quote Originally Posted by slacky View Post
    RSWalker has no place in the updater, this is because the current mindset is that a library should work on all platforms that Simba support (preferably on Linux as well). RSWalker however is written aimed towards 32bit Java (the mem scanning), and Windows Only - with 32bit Simba version. RSWalker can not without major changes take over the job that SPS does, so it doesn't fit RS3 either. So it has not rendered SPS useless. Second thing is that I can by no means guarantee that I will maintain RSW over time, it just something I wrote to fill in a hole that existed (SPS wasn't working well for OSR).

    There is talk here about SRL-OSR / SRL-5, so I am gonna assume this talk aims towards that include, and not the fresh SRL version aimed towards OSR.

    @Thomas; I doubt anyone has updated SPS, however it should be a very simple task to do, almost weird it doesn't work already (can't imagine more than a few lines that has to be tweaked at most)... unless there are any plugin/FFI related issues, it should be straight forward.
    That makes sense, however isn't it possible to use RSW in the way SPS functioned, without memory-scanning? It's been quite some time since I've used it that way, I can't recall how accurate/fast it is. It would really be a shame if you weren't to update RSW should it ever need to be repaired; it's such a powerful tool for color-based scripts.

    Also SPS does indeed work for OSRS with a little tweaking here and there, however it's inaccurate as Thomas said. Not to mention the speed issue.

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    Let's keep this thing going and jump start SRL again. Right now the only thing reliably working is AeroLib and probably SRL-6.
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    I am trying move Simba to Lazarus 1.8RC5 and FPC 3.0.4. Simba will compile on 1.6.4/3.0.2, but that is with the removal of some form functionality (one component) and the potential breakage of LAPE's foreign function interface. Those two issues are maintained in the transition to 1.8RC5. Hopefully this can be done soon, as the developers seem to be more likely to comment now than later.

    The other components that run on top of Simba can be updated separately from Simba. I tried to do this myself, but the source for some of the plugins is not available. Most problematic is @Flight's include, which no one was able to direct me to - there was some vague mention that the source had been uploaded to the forum, but now I can only find binaries. If they can not be regenerated (potentially to account for binary incompatibility issues) then there will be no real foundation for SRL. Even the built-in color functionality is broken and needs updating.
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    Bump
    I vote for updating SRL6 to Simba 1.2, and including some more OSRS into the Simba updater

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas View Post
    Bump
    I vote for updating SRL6 to Simba 1.2, and including some more OSRS into the Simba updater
    Simba 1.2 needs a real release first.
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    Quote Originally Posted by KeepBotting View Post
    Simba 1.2 needs a real release first.
    @Wizzup? has not had time to review @slacky's or my changes, nor prepare Simba 1.2. I requested he make the build bot configuration available so that others could pick up the work if he no longer has time to do it.

    The last release candidate for Simba 1.2 is over a year old. Have the release goals changed?

    Lazarus 1.8 and FPC 3.0.4 have been released. There are not any problems with the FFI that I have detected; consequently, there are no outstanding reasons to not move to the new versions.
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    I like this idea, currently it is quite confusing.

    seems to me the fixes over the past few years have been to make more includes.

    users are nowhere near as many as when it was scar or Simba1.0

    I think the difficulty level of just getting a script to work for a first time user is too high resulting in less people learning to write scripts.
    less people making guides and overall less interest in all of it.

    If we had an autoupdater for osr-srl, srl-6, s.m.a.r.t. and whatever the rs3 version of smart is"I think it was NAS", sps, mapwalker + anything I'm not thinking of that certain scripts might require-
    I think it would help a lot with the amount of active scripters and future scripters.


    I have been gone for a few years now and coming back it took me quite a while to get the proper includes just to get a script functioning (still don't have smart for rs3 and have to run in oldschool interface)

    and I hate to think how many others like me have come back and seen the include mess and low forum count and gave up.

    scripting is one of the most enjoyable experiences taking a problem and solving it, tweaking it to perfection and finally sitting back to admire your work. it's a sense of accomplishment I wouldn't want to see anyone miss out on.


    is there any way I can help with this update? I'm a noob scripter but given a task I'll do the best I can.

    I don't want to see srl die
    Last edited by westkevin12; 01-02-2018 at 04:04 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by westkevin12 View Post
    is there any way I can help with this update? I'm a noob scripter but given a task I'll do the best I can.

    I don't want to see srl die
    I've been working on an SRL update that works with NAS and NXT-resizeable interfaces. Currently only supports 1080p, but @yourule97 and I are brainstorming ways to make everything dynamic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by klamor View Post
    I've been working on an SRL update that works with NAS and NXT-resizeable interfaces. Currently only supports 1080p, but @yourule97 and I are brainstorming ways to make everything dynamic.
    Good to see people are moving to NXT and that SRL won't be left to die. Or maybe an alternative could arise. Thing is the old school interface is long dead and some new way of automating needs to come.
    Best of luck!

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    Quote Originally Posted by westkevin12 View Post
    I don't want to see srl die
    If you can make some kind of script, any kind, then there will be something to test the core parts of Simba. Most of the scripts I see do not work, or I do not have an account so I can test them.

    Avoid any includes besides SRL if you can, and avoid any plugins which you can't find the source for. If core SRL can not do what you need, then post here or make a separate thread.
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