View Poll Results: Your stand on God

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148. This poll is closed
  • Atheist

    57 38.51%
  • Agnostic

    22 14.86%
  • Religious

    69 46.62%
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Thread: God

  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by rkroxpunk View Post
    no offence but why did u make this thread. ur first post clearly says that GOD IS NOT REAL..... you really think every christian who has held the belief for all their life that God is real will suddenly go "ok he's right. goodbye God" I mean really.....
    That's his belief though. He's not forcing his belief on anyone or telling anyone to abandon theirs, he's debating the matter. I belief debating is the best way to bring out all aspects and it is good to hear different viewpoints.

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    I DO NOT want to insult anyone or anything by(NOTE ITS MY OPINION):
    I DONT BELIEVE IN GOD
    I DONT BELIEVE IN JESUS
    I HATE GOD
    I HATE JESUS
    NONE OF THEM EXISTS

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    meh i guess u did use IMO a few times which is all good but still i kinda assumed that when u said
    God does not exist. Period.
    you were telling us all he doesn't exist, no doubt about it. anywayz carry on...
    Sleeping...

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    Quote Originally Posted by n3ss3s View Post
    I DO NOT want to insult anyone or anything by(NOTE ITS MY OPINION):
    I DONT BELIEVE IN GOD
    I DONT BELIEVE IN JESUS
    I HATE GOD
    I HATE JESUS
    NONE OF THEM EXISTS
    How can you hate something that you don't believe in?
    Your contradicting yourself there buddy :P
    By saying you hate God you are acknowledging that he exists, you just dont like him

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    Quote Originally Posted by neG View Post
    How can you hate something that you don't believe in?
    Your contradicting yourself there buddy :P
    By saying you hate God you are acknowledging that he exists, you just dont like him
    Thats just being a smarty pants ... smarty pants.
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  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by lolpie View Post
    No, Saint Nicholas, the bishop, was a real person. He didn't zip-line down peoples' chimneys and chuck gifts at them, he just...was a bishop.

    It's like writing a book with a guy named Stephen (my name :P) in it then saying he's real because I'm real.

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    Quote Originally Posted by crossback7 View Post
    I don't mind that Bush vetoed the bill against embryonic stem cells, as it technically is killing a human life. I don't agree with abortion, as it's basically the same thing.
    Uh...ES (embryonic stem) cells and abortion are COMPLETELY different. In abortion, you kill a deformed, unhuman thing that doesn't even resemble a baby. ES stem cells are completely different because they aren't anything yet...only about 100-150 cells in a ball called a blastocyte. I would rather have ES cell research going on because it actually benefits us. However I don't have a problem with abortion because it's the mother's choice if she wants to kill it. She gave birth to it, she should decide.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sumilion View Post
    Thats just being a smarty pants ... smarty pants.
    Well yes but Smarties taste great and pants keep me warm! Moving back onto topic... NeG was right, regardless of how hair-splitting/nit-picking his logic was. This topic is probably doomed to have an ongoing debate of three people:

    1) The science can explain everything crowd. (vg_cobra)
    2) The God can explain everything crowd. (me)
    3) The moderates who the other two ignore xD (Vicious,masquerader).

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by A G E N T 83 View Post
    No, Saint Nicholas, the bishop, was a real person. He didn't zip-line down peoples' chimneys and chuck gifts at them, he just...was a bishop.

    It's like writing a book with a guy named Stephen (my name :P) in it then saying he's real because I'm real.
    actually he did put presents in peoples shoes or it might have only been one family. anyways i know he did it..
    Sleeping...

  10. #35
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    Before reading this post let me make sure you know lol. This is not flaming. Flaming would be sumthing much worse. I am simply expressing my opinion. If this is not flaming.....
    I DONT BELIEVE IN GOD
    I DONT BELIEVE IN JESUS
    I HATE GOD
    I HATE JESUS
    NONE OF THEM EXISTS
    .....by N3ss3s then this surely isnt It's all in good fun to me





    God was just a being, an almight, all- powerful being who was there to fill in the spots that science was not able to fill. As science is solving all of life's problem, there is becoming little need for god. What has God done? Give you a nice fancy car? A nice job with a nice rich house? Has he given us a world without Genocide? Without Oil? Without greedy people?
    lmao at this bro. "What has science done for you. Give you a nice fancy car? A nice job with a nice rich house? Has it given us a world without Genocide? Without Oil? Without greedy people?" wait...wait... am i kewl now? Science has done nothing and that isnt even what God is supposed to do. Seriously i do my homework on science's part of the story(not just because i take science in class but because i really want to know what could they possibly be thinking. But what ticks me off is that the evoulutionists or watever you are dont do theirs. Actually ready the stories about God (I for one am Christian so i would say read the Bible in Genesis) but im sure any other religious person would at least say learn something about the stories. God is not a magical genie waiting to do your every wim and give you anthing you want lol.

    I DO NOT want to insult anyone or anything by(NOTE ITS MY OPINION):
    I DONT BELIEVE IN GOD
    I DONT BELIEVE IN JESUS
    I HATE GOD
    I HATE JESUS
    NONE OF THEM EXISTS
    sigh, this is what some Americans bring to the tables these days(assuming you are American). Unthoughout, uneducated, unresearched, prolly makes F's in school, worthless piece of crap posts like this. (SORRY I DID NOT WANT TO INSULT YOU OR ANYTHING, BUT ITS MY OPINION)

    drink your ovaltine bizatch.

    Quote Originally Posted by masquerader View Post
    There are parts of religion I think are good and parts I think are bad.

    good:
    • give people morals
    • tells people how to live their lives
    • gives some kind of meaning in life
    • hope


    bad:
    • people seem to throw their morals out the window when it comes to killing/hating people of other religions
    • i think most of religion is too arbitrary. i dont think anything should change on a whim or because its popular (burning of witches, books of the bible, etc)
    • people think religious people are more moral than non-religious people
    • people can be blind/ignorant


    you shouldnt pull in facts when debating about religion; the core of religion is faith and belief, and that doesnt require proof

    anybody hear of joseph campbell? i think his ideas about the role of mythology in society (how you relate yourself to the universe) are pretty good

    basically, whatever can answer your questions is good for you, and other people should respect that
    You know what Masquerador(or however you spell it). Your post actually made me smile. Thats because 98 % of it is well thought out and true (he does not discuss what is right and wrong, he discusses the concept of religion.) The only thing that bothered me is this
    people think religious people are more moral than non-religious people
    Why not? For the most part , they are. The young man who lives in L.A. and believes in some sort of "God" is less likely to rob, kill, rape someone than the young man who lives in L.A. who doesnt. Its a fact of life. I live in Memphis so i personally see all the time people who kill people on the news. And i guarentee not one of the is religious (unless they are not correct in their religion (such as the muslims((or whoever they were)) who flew into the twin towers. Now they were just crazy lol).

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    @pwnzor, Right on. Ovaltine pwns all.

    @rkrockpun, you know he did it? Of course...was it the rope in the living room, or the poison in the parlour? :P :P
    FINE, maybe he did. However, Bishop-distributing-confections-and-gifts-at-random-to-one-family<>Big-fat-guy-in-red-suit-flying-in-sled-powered-by-ungulates-distributing-presents-to-billions-of-people.

  12. #37
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    I'm agnostic.

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    Well shoot, i typed out my entire arguement it took like an hour, then my family/friends came in and screwed it up so now it got deleted. BTW im in North Carolina right now and im leaving on my plane ride in a few hours so i have to pack. I will type it all out again when i get home lol.

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    I don't like these debates...

    People have the right to believe what ever they want, I don't think debating about it is 'fun'.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pwnaz0r View Post
    sigh, this is what some Americans bring to the tables these days(assuming you are American). Unthoughout, uneducated, unresearched, prolly makes F's in school, worthless piece of crap posts like this. (SORRY I DID NOT WANT TO INSULT YOU OR ANYTHING, BUT ITS MY OPINION)
    Your opinion is that if he were American, that meant he didn't think through what he said and he is uneducated? Not only that, but you assume he's American because what you think he said is stupid? Be that it is your opinion, that's just plain..i dunno. Unfair? Kind of like saying "I HATE YOU, but no offense intended." Except to a group of people. But then again, that's somewhere else, and an entirely different topic, so disregard this post. And yes, i'm an American. California to be specific. Hell, i'll even give you that at least half of all Americans are how you described them, but that doesn't make it fair to assume all the ones you encounter are.

    Also, i'm gonna try not to come back to this thread Doesn't seem like anything good will come of it

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    Quote Originally Posted by A G E N T 83 View Post
    No, Saint Nicholas, the bishop, was a real person. He didn't zip-line down peoples' chimneys and chuck gifts at them, he just...was a bishop.

    It's like writing a book with a guy named Stephen (my name :P) in it then saying he's real because I'm real.
    Actually he did give out gifts to poor children

    sigh, this is what some Americans bring to the tables these days(assuming you are American). Unthoughout, uneducated, unresearched, prolly makes F's in school, worthless piece of crap posts like this. (SORRY I DID NOT WANT TO INSULT YOU OR ANYTHING, BUT ITS MY OPINION)
    Are you retarded? People don't sit at dinner and talk about if God is real or not. That's what scientists and philosophers do. That's like saying "OMG, he's British, so he must not bathe or brush his teeth!" <- lots of people think that
    Hey lady, I need a yank! Ha ha, dislocation.

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by pwnaz0r View Post
    You know what Masquerador(or however you spell it). Your post actually made me smile. Thats because 98 % of it is well thought out and true (he does not discuss what is right and wrong, he discusses the concept of religion.) The only thing that bothered me is this
    people think religious people are more moral than non-religious people
    Why not? For the most part , they are. The young man who lives in L.A. and believes in some sort of "God" is less likely to rob, kill, rape someone than the young man who lives in L.A. who doesnt. Its a fact of life. I live in Memphis so i personally see all the time people who kill people on the news. And i guarentee not one of the is religious (unless they are not correct in their religion (such as the muslims((or whoever they were)) who flew into the twin towers. Now they were just crazy lol).
    my reply is in the form of another quote, haha
    i read this in an interview in discover magazine and it made me think
    lisa randall
    So does your science leave space for untestable faith? Do you believe in God?

    There's room there, and it could go either way. Faith just doesn't have anything to do with what I'm doing as a scientist. It's nice if you can believe in God, because then you see more of a purpose in things. Even if you don't, though, it doesn't mean that there's no purpose. It doesn't mean that there's no goodness. I think that there's a virtue in being good in and of itself. I think that one can work with the world we have. So I probably don't believe in God. I think it's a problem that people are considered immoral if they're not religious. That's just not true. This might earn me some enemies, but in some ways they may be even more moral. If you do something for a religious reason, you do it because you'll be rewarded in an afterlife or in this world. That's not quite as good as something you do for purely generous reasons.
    also from the same article that might interest people:
    Will physics ever be able to tackle the biggest questions—for instance, why does the universe even bother to exist?

    Science is not religion. We're not going to be able to answer the "why" questions. But when you put together all of what we know about the universe, it fits together amazingly well.

    .....

    This sounds like your formula for keeping science and religion from fighting with each other.

    A lot of scientists take the Stephen Jay Gould approach: Religion asks questions about morals, whereas science just asks questions about the natural world. But when people try to use religion to address the natural world, science pushes back on it, and religion has to accommodate the results. Beliefs can be permanent, but beliefs can also be flexible. Personally, if I find out my belief is wrong, I change my mind. I think that's a good way to live.
    edit: btw, im american

  18. #43
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    Wow well lol. Being American wasnt even part of the arguement so get off it lol. I myself am American it was supposed to be discriminating or anything lol

    BTW
    Hell, i'll even give you that at least half of all Americans are how you described them, but that doesn't make it fair to assume all the ones you encounter are.
    thats one of my points exactly if you read it thoroughly.

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    I is a amerikan two. I am is sota stoopid somtimes. . .Stop stereotyping.

    @ New to Autoing - I think that abortion is still morally wrong, as it's killing something that will become a human. And your case about the whole father raping daughter thing is different. Adoption anyone??

    I must admit, I don't know a whole lot about embryonic stem cell research. But if you have to kill an embryo, which will become a human, I still believe it is wrong. Unless the embryos are going to be destroyed anyways, I don't endorse it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by crossback7 View Post
    And your case about the whole father raping daughter thing is different. Adoption anyone??
    If you're saying that if a father raped his daughter and the baby should be put up for adoption...There are so many things wrong with that.

  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by A G E N T 83 View Post
    I've heard about the Large Hadron Colliders and other such devices of science before; likewise, I have heard of the theory that by descending into certain particles, it could be that you might discover another universe, likewise, we may be encapsulated in a particle somewhere.

    From my worthy opponent who has criticised my arguments for being groundless, I think that arguing on the basis of results that we have yet to receive is a bit dodgy, however, I'll play along.

    (P.S. You linked to an article about the Higgs boson, purported creator of mass "fields", don't know if that has to do with universe-within-universe).

    As is the mark of any gifted debater, you have eloquently deconstructed my rash arguments and nicely glossed or skipped over the more significant ones. Let me return to one of my more important arguments.

    Now all this talk about bosons, quarks, mesons, leptons, I-can-go-on-and-ons ( :P ) is very interesting, and a very controversial theory. Problem for those who believe that God does not exist is that there has to be that one particle at the top of the "chain", if you will, that spawned all of the smaller universes inside of it. Where did it come from? Why was it created? There has to have been something or someone that was there before it to have created it. We're left with few options on how to explain this miraculous appearance: namely, a higher power-God.

    Now this may be hard to conceive or explain; how can God always have existed, if he didn't come into existence, how can he always have existed? No living person knows, nor will any living person ever know.

    As much as I do believe in many scientific facts and am open to many theories, including the aforementioned, there is always that that one thing that roots my belief that God must exist. For whichever particle, or pocket of matter, or whatever science may make up in the future, it has to have come from somewhere. God.

    Onwards to your arguments, I'll kick it off with your Santa Clause-Jesus analogy. Unlike Santa, Jesus was not a corporate invention. It's easy enough to discredit the Bible as falsehood or storytelling, but aside from Christians who believe in him in faith, the Jews historically acknowledge him as a prophet, although they do not believe in his divinity.


    Now, if you met a person at random on the street at random and struck up a conversation with them (this is somewhat absurd), you could tell them that two groups of people believed that a) in the air around them, amongst the molecules, inside the atom, if they looked closely enough they would find a universe, and b)2000 years ago a man was crucified, died, and was resurrected from the dead, they would probably say that both are about equally likely. Is it really that "absurd"?
    Your arguements are groundless, I don't see any logic or proof in any of those statements. God is just a belief, a faith. Now I'll let you believe any fairy tale you want but I'm not going to acknowledge a statement which utilizes a non-existent being as a reason or in most cases, excuse. Show me proof, then we'll talk.

    Now about the Alpha particle, I don't see why it couldn't just have existed at the beginning of time. Or more aptly called Time Zero. I don't see why God has to be labeled as the maker of that particle. And you said that when you ask two people on the street with two different viewpoints both would say they are fathomable. I disagree, if you take two non biased people and asked them, the scientific method would seem more plausible. Why? Which makes more sense? The idea that a being which has not revealed itself has *poof* created something is much less fathomable than the idea that the particle has existed since the beginning of time and we use equations, formulas, proofs, theorems to prove every single thing that has happened since then. ( This is not totally true as of now but after the LHC project it will be confirmed )

    Religion has done nothing but place God as the label, no explanation, no description. Kept people in the dark and leashed them like dogs. Ever since the Enlightenment and the Scientific Revolution people have been getting wise to the church so it had to use more subtle tactics such as brainwashing. No longer can they kill and go on Crusades in the name of the Church.

    The only good thing Religion is good for is morals. However, Religion is dying, Church attendance is visibly slow and fewer people are entering the Clergy.

    You are free to believe anything you want, but statements with no proof are not going to be taken seriously. Once again I respect people's beliefs and I am sorry if I came on too hard by saying "God does not exist. Period", God may or may not exist in your book. But all I am asking is for people to prove it to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by pwnaz0r View Post
    lmao at this bro. "What has science done for you. Give you a nice fancy car? A nice job with a nice rich house? Has it given us a world without Genocide? Without Oil? Without greedy people?" wait...wait... am i kewl now? Science has done nothing and that isnt even what God is supposed to do. Seriously i do my homework on science's part of the story(not just because i take science in class but because i really want to know what could they possibly be thinking. But what ticks me off is that the evoulutionists or watever you are dont do theirs. Actually ready the stories about God (I for one am Christian so i would say read the Bible in Genesis) but im sure any other religious person would at least say learn something about the stories. God is not a magical genie waiting to do your every wim and give you anthing you want lol.
    I think I should have broken it down a little better for the better understand of people like you.

    Yes Science has given me a car, a nice home and medicines to cure myself. I have to work for it and earn it. Last I checked God did not invent the motor engine, the conveyor belt, or any medical breakthroughs. All those things you talked about are morals. I'm cool with that, morals are good. But its not cool when Religion starts poking its head into areas where it does not belong.

    @ Agent, BTW I am not saying Science has the answers to everything, some things you just can't explain and are not meant to be explained. However, Science has produced more answers and attached with it is proof, cold hard proof. Religion has also produced answers and does not come with proof and gathers its followers solely on faith and tales of prophecies and doom.
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    Why did it have to be the FATHER and his daughter? That just makes me feel sick. I do believe that there are drugs and whatnot that a person can take that destroy the egg and sperm before they ever combine, thus not destroying a life.


    Quote Originally Posted by crossback7 View Post
    I is a amerikan two. I am is sota stoopid somtimes. . .Stop stereotyping.

    @ New to Autoing - I think that abortion is still morally wrong, as it's killing something that will become a human. And your case about the whole father raping daughter thing is different. Adoption anyone??

    I must admit, I don't know a whole lot about embryonic stem cell research. But if you have to kill an embryo, which will become a human, I still believe it is wrong. Unless the embryos are going to be destroyed anyways, I don't endorse it.
    Yes, I agree with Vicious on the adoption thing....ugh.

    As to stem cell research, in past, they basically created a zygote (fertilized egg) which developed into a blastocyst. Since it was not yet technically an embryo, scientists argued that it was not a human life. It was very contentious nonetheless.

    However in recent years, they have developed a way of taking stem cells from the umbilical cord which is useless after the child is born. Many countries support this, I think, with the notable exception of the united states, or, rather, good old George Dub-ya.

    And would everyone PLEASE stop ripping on Americans? Sure, as a people we may not like them, but as individuals, they're really not bad.

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    Quote Originally Posted by VG_Kobra View Post
    Your arguements are groundless, I don't see any logic or proof in any of those statements. God is just a belief, a faith. Now I'll let you believe any fairy tale you want but I'm not going to acknowledge a statement which utilizes a non-existent being as a reason or in most cases, excuse. Show me proof, then we'll talk.

    Now about the Alpha particle, I don't see why it couldn't just have existed at the beginning of time. Or more aptly called Time Zero. I don't see why God has to be labeled as the maker of that particle. And you said that when you ask two people on the street with two different viewpoints both would say they are fathomable. I disagree, if you take two non biased people and asked them, the scientific method would seem more plausible. Why? Which makes more sense? The idea that a being which has not revealed itself has *poof* created something is much less fathomable than the idea that the particle has existed since the beginning of time and we use equations, formulas, proofs, theorems to prove every single thing that has happened since then. ( This is not totally true as of now but after the LHC project it will be confirmed )

    Religion has done nothing but place God as the label, no explanation, no description. Kept people in the dark and leashed them like dogs. Ever since the Enlightenment and the Scientific Revolution people have been getting wise to the church so it had to use more subtle tactics such as brainwashing. No longer can they kill and go on Crusades in the name of the Church.

    The only good thing Religion is good for is morals. However, Religion is dying, Church attendance is visibly slow and fewer people are entering the Clergy.

    You are free to believe anything you want, but statements with no proof are not going to be taken seriously. Once again I respect people's beliefs and I am sorry if I came on too hard by saying "God does not exist. Period", God may or may not exist in your book. But all I am asking is for people to prove it to me.

    You posted as I was posting on a different train of thought. :P
    I'm afraid we're both as equally stubborn and determined as the other. Now, if you insist on dredging out the old arguments again, fine. Furthermore, if you insist on dragging things in that are unrelated, such as Church policies, fine.

    "The Church"<>God. Nor is it so that the Church brainwashes people. You could argue two sides of a coin; if the Church brainwashed people (it does not) why would attendance be "dwindling"? Church attendance, my friend, is dwindling not because people think Science>God, it is because of today's culture. Now I'm not going to get into gritty detail but people would rather do certain things which the Church's teachings forbid. The church does not brainwash people, people go to Church because they believe in God.

    Now you've repeatedly called my arguments unfounded. For a man whose main argument centers around the results of a device that is currently nothing much more than a big hole in the ground somewhere in Western Europe, I think that's pretty audacious.

    What could this wonderful machine solve anyways? Sure, it can tell us how our universe works, but not why. Enter God, or, if you so choose, "Alpha Particle".

    Now about the Alpha particle, I don't see why it couldn't just have existed at the beginning of time.
    You are free to believe anything you want, but statements with no proof are not going to be taken seriously.
    Oh, won't they? You go back in time billions of years and find me the Alpha Particle, and I'll go right back with you and find you God.

  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by A G E N T 83 View Post
    You posted as I was posting on a different train of thought. :P
    I'm afraid we're both as equally stubborn and determined as the other. Now, if you insist on dredging out the old arguments again, fine. Furthermore, if you insist on dragging things in that are unrelated, such as Church policies, fine.

    "The Church"<>God. Nor is it so that the Church brainwashes people. You could argue two sides of a coin; if the Church brainwashed people (it does not) why would attendance be "dwindling"? Church attendance, my friend, is dwindling not because people think Science>God, it is because of today's culture. Now I'm not going to get into gritty detail but people would rather do certain things which the Church's teachings forbid. The church does not brainwash people, people go to Church because they believe in God.

    Now you've repeatedly called my arguments unfounded. For a man whose main argument centers around the results of a device that is currently nothing much more than a big hole in the ground somewhere in Western Europe, I think that's pretty audacious.

    What could this wonderful machine solve anyways? Sure, it can tell us how our universe works, but not why. Enter God, or, if you so choose, "Alpha Particle".





    Oh, won't they? You go back in time billions of years and find me the Alpha Particle, and I'll go right back with you and find you God.

    Church = God because the Church represents God. The Church does brainwash people, in my opinion, all it does is try and get more converts. From what I can see it goes to poverty ridden areas and converts the groups by the masses. Examples are Africa, India and South America. I have atleast 1 evangelist come knocking to my house and and they keep telling me do I want to be saved? WTF?

    Haha so true right? A big hole worth multi billion dollars which is going to shake the very foundation on which we stand on today.

    Science - So far cannot prove the Alpha Particle but has proved everything else thoroughly since then.

    Religion - So far has labeled the Alpha Particle as a work of god and since then has labeled everything else the work of god.

    I don't know about you but if you use logic I don't think its hard to see which one is more dependable for answers.

    Get real. Once again you smartly dodge my question of showing me God. You say all this is the work of God, where is he? Any evidence? Proof. There is no proof unless your opinion on God is that it's a particle or mass amount of energy.
    ~ "To Alcohol, The Cause and Solution to all of Life's Problems"

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    Quote Originally Posted by VG_Kobra View Post
    Church = God because the Church represents God.

    Get real. Once again you smartly dodge my question of showing me God. You say all this is the work of God, where is he? Any evidence? Proof. There is no proof unless your opinion on God is that it's a particle or mass amount of energy.
    How is the Church God? The Church represents Him/Her, but that doesn't make the Church God. That's like saying Microsoft = computers, even though Microsoft pretty much makes software, not hardware.

    Also, as you said, belief in God is just that, belief and faith. The definition of those 2 things are something that's spiritual, not rational. You can't define or prove spirituality.
    Hey lady, I need a yank! Ha ha, dislocation.

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