God

[VG_Kobra]

How is the Church God? The Church represents Him/Her, but that doesn't make the Church God. That's like saying Microsoft = computers, even though Microsoft pretty much makes software, not hardware.

Also, as you said, belief in God is just that, belief and faith. The definition of those 2 things are something that's spiritual, not rational. You can't define or prove spirituality.

Well this is how the world works, whatever you represent, has its reputation on the line with you. You fuck up, its reputation goes down. It's similar with Church and God.

Absolutely, Faith and Belief cannot be defined but that also means you cannot place all of the world's meanings and definitions on that which cannot be defined.

[lolpie]

Absolutely, Faith and Belief cannot be defined but that also means you cannot place all of the world's meanings and definitions on that which cannot be defined.

Why not? Btw, I'm Atheist

[masquerader]

all of you are totally missing the point, continuing to post about santa clause, incest and radioactive decay

*sigh*... i think ive given up on trying to steer this topic in a thoughtful direction. it doesnt matter because nobody reads my posts anyway (i dont think anybody here truly reads any posts, or puts any thought in writing them for that matter)

oh well, good luck

[NewToAutoing]

all of you are totally missing the point, continuing to post about santa clause, incest and radioactive decay

*sigh*... i think ive given up on trying to steer this topic in a thoughtful direction. it doesnt matter because nobody reads my posts anyway (i dont think anybody here truly reads any posts, or puts any thought in writing them for that matter)

oh well, good luck

Yeah, seriously. I only put that part in there to make it seem as horrible as possible so that those who view it as okay when it's not multiple sins in itself would get the point.

And your case about the whole father raping daughter thing is different. Adoption anyone??

If you're saying that if a father raped his daughter and the baby should be put up for adoption...There are so many things wrong with that.

Yeah, honestly. Growing up without parents would be hard enough, let alone something like that. Not to mention it could lead to health problems (i think)..

If you're against abortions, i disagree with you, but then i can understand what makes you be against stem cell research. Mainly because you're not looking at it as "if they're already gonna have an abortion, then why not help find the cure for cancer" as i am. (just an example, i dunno specifically what could be done with the research)

if the Church brainwashed people (it does not) why would attendance be "dwindling"?

Maybe because people are getting tired of being brainwashed? In my opinion it's in between, the church brainwashes people or the parents do by not really giving them a choice in religion. Also, (somewhat offtopic) isn't being baptized supposed to be to cleanse your soul of sins? So then how come babies are baptized? Are they sinning by being born, or sinning in the womb, or something..? (If i'm wrong on what i just said, then disregard it)

Once more going back to abortions (sorry, it just came to my mind) what about those who just dump their babies in dumpsters? (Horrible I know, but it has happened. Multiple times. I hear it on the news quite frequently. "Another baby found in an abandoned dumpster.."). Wouldn't an abortion be better? Instead of having a baby be born to die shortly after (Referring to the ones not found) it could not have to go through any of it, and also contribute to advancements in medicine and science.

It's funny, i find myself agreeing a little bit with VG_Kobra and a little bit with A G E N T 83. Though i think the person i share the most views with is lolpie (or at least from what i can see..)

[rkroxpunk]

ya the problem with religious topics is that everyone gets so caught up in them they post massives post meaning icbf reading them

[Santa_Clause]

Rkroxpunk, are you God damn psychic. I was thinking just the same thing.

[lolpie]

Once more going back to abortions (sorry, it just came to my mind) what about those who just dump their babies in dumpsters? (Horrible I know, but it has happened. Multiple times. I hear it on the news quite frequently. "Another baby found in an abandoned dumpster.."). Wouldn't an abortion be better? Instead of having a baby be born to die shortly after (Referring to the ones not found) it could not have to go through any of it, and also contribute to advancements in medicine and science.

People throw em in dumpsters because they can't afford abortions, which are really expensive

It's funny, i find myself agreeing a little bit with VG_Kobra and a little bit with A G E N T 83. Though i think the person i share the most views with is lolpie (or at least from what i can see..)

[VG_Kobra]

Why not? Btw, I'm Atheist

Lol Why Not?

Because Belief and Faith are just that, belief and faith. They are emotional and mental things. You cannot say trees grow because of gods will or the people's faith.

You can say trees grow because of those things but it is purely fictional, you cannot prove that because of those things trees grow. But Science has proof how trees grow

Once again, Religion is great of morals and sense of direction in life. But it should not attempt to make itself all powerful by smacking the label of God on every damn thing.

[lolpie]

Lol Why Not?

Because Belief and Faith are just that, belief and faith. They are emotional and mental things. You cannot say trees grow because of gods will or the people's faith.

But if you believe that they do, then in your own opinion you are right.

You can say trees grow because of those things but it is purely fictional, you cannot prove that because of those things trees grow. But Science has proof how trees grow

It's faith and belief. They don't need proof

Once again, Religion is great of morals and sense of direction in life. But it should not attempt to make itself all powerful by smacking the label of God on every damn thing.

Wow this is a neverending arguement

[A G E N T]

Maybe because people are getting tired of being brainwashed? In my opinion it's in between, the church brainwashes people or the parents do by not really giving them a choice in religion. Also, (somewhat offtopic) isn't being baptized supposed to be to cleanse your soul of sins? So then how come babies are baptized? Are they sinning by being born, or sinning in the womb, or something..? (If i'm wrong on what i just said, then disregard it)

I'm a Roman Catholic, so I'm not sure about the beliefs of other denominations such as Anglicans, United, Jehovah's Witness ( the come-to-your-door people :P) (sorry if I offended any Jehovah Witnesses out there). In the Roman Catholic faith, we believe that every human is born with an "original sin", a sinfulness that is inherent to mankind. Supposedly it is from the story of Adam and Eve, but I choose not to read the Bible that literally.

This argument is truly not going anywhere. There are two opposing sides and neither is going to give up any ground. It, as (I Forget Who) said, is a never-ending argument.

Science has its place, as does religion. My opinion is my opinion, I've made it clear, and I've had it with making the 30-minute long posts directed only @ one person. If you read this as me conceding defeat, so be it, but it is not.

Toodles,
A G E N T 83

[Boreas]

Eh my two cents:

I don't believe in god. (I stopped believing in the tooth fairy and santa clause very early.) If god or an angel came down to me in a cloud, or a bush inexplicably started burning and talking to me, or something like that, I would take that back and believe in god. (Technically I guess it wouldn't be believing, but rather knowing, but if I knew god existed, then I would believe in heaven and angels, or if I knew angels existed then I would believe in god etc.)

Now what event would do the opposite to someone that believes in god? Nothing can prove (an event or well thought out points with evidence on a thread like this) that god doesn't exist, because of 'the wind exists but you can't see it, god exists but is invisible' and other convenient excuses. The rare occasions when a believer stops believing is usually when something bad happens to them or a loved one, which is kinda selfish because god lets good people die all the time. So yea, nothing can convince a true believer, so this thread won't lead to anything good.

Discussions and debates don't apply to faith.

[rkroxpunk]

Eh my two cents:

I don't believe in god. (I stopped believing in the tooth fairy and santa clause very early.) If god or an angel came down to me in a cloud, or a bush inexplicably started burning and talking to me, or something like that, I would take that back and believe in god. (Technically I guess it wouldn't be believing, but rather knowing, but if I knew god existed, then I would believe in heaven and angels, or if I knew angels existed then I would believe in god etc.)

Now what event would do the opposite to someone that believes in god? Nothing can prove (an event or well thought out points with evidence on a thread like this) that god doesn't exist, because of 'the wind exists but you can't see it, god exists but is invisible' and other convenient excuses. The rare occasions when a believer stops believing is usually when something bad happens to them or a loved one, which is kinda selfish because god lets good people die all the time. So yea, nothing can convince a true believer, so this thread won't lead to anything good.

Discussions and debates don't apply to faith.

hmm i'd believe in evolution if i sat for a few million or billion years and watched an ape evolve in front of me. or if i was somehow existant when the big bang happened

Once again, Religion is great of morals and sense of direction in life. But it should not attempt to make itself all powerful by smacking the label of God on every damn thing.

of course we're gonna smack the label off God on every damn thing.

lol we believe God made science so when scientists prove something in science we can just pwn them - "Ha God made science! Owned!" *smacks label on einstein*

and yes Santa psychicsismness is my God given gift along with word making

[Here]

I'm apagnostic. I don't care about what people say about God, because I have no interest either way. It's laziness, that's what it is.

Apagnostic = Apathetic agnostic.

[VG_Kobra]

But if you believe that they do, then in your own opinion you are right.



It's faith and belief. They don't need proof



Wow this is a neverending arguement

I'm feeling a bit repetitive now. Faith and Belief is emotional and personal, ofcourse you don't need proof. And since it doesn't need proof it cannot be used to define things. You can say, that Orange is really an Apple, as you said, in your own opinion, you are right. But to others your just a few marbles short. If you want to convince people you need proof. If you want me to convince me that God exists then show me proof. Telling me he exists is not a valid argument.


BTW your an Atheist why are you playing against yourself?

[lolpie]

BTW your an Atheist why are you playing against yourself?

For the sake of arguement

[rkroxpunk]

I'm feeling a bit repetitive now. Faith and Belief is emotional and personal, ofcourse you don't need proof. And since it doesn't need proof it cannot be used to define things. You can say, that Orange is really an Apple, as you said, in your own opinion, you are right. But to others your just a few marbles short. If you want to convince people you need proof. If you want me to convince me that God exists then show me proof. Telling me he exists is not a valid argument.


BTW your an Atheist why are you playing against yourself?

define proof.....

[VG_Kobra]

For the sake of arguement

Its funny how we need to validate our arguments and then come up with counterarguments for our arguments for the sake of arguing

define proof.....

"Any factual evidence that helps to establish the truth of something"

Something like a Manual or a Public recreation that can make people believe.

[crossback7]

I see all of your points about the stem cell thing, and I must say: If the mother is already going to get an abortion, then I really don't see anything wrong with it.

I still think a zygote is a human in a way, but we might as well try to make a positive out of abortions.

The whole God-Science deal is useless to argue about. If people are truly faithful in God, then their mind's most likely won't be changed. Vice-versa also.

Unless you're adopted, you can't say what abandoned kids want or need. I have about a dozen friends who've been adopted, some of them not until recently. Some have contact with their birth parents, some don't. Either way, most of them don't complain about being in an orphanage. A few even liked it, as the were with people who understood their situation.

The father raping daughter thing is just fucked up, and I'm at a lost of words for what to say about that. And yes, it could possibly cause health problems for the child, especially with that direct of a bloodline.

I'm never going to have another post that long.

[masquerader]

since the arguments have kind of died down, i will give a new, semi-related question:

do you believe in the human soul, afterlife, ghosts, near death experiences or out of body experiences?

aka: does some essence of you exist without your body?

[Here]

Umm, you actually provided about five different questions there.

For more thoughts on most of them while having a good read, get the Golden Compass trilogy. Very immersing.

[lolpie]

since the arguments have kind of died down, i will give a new, semi-related question:

do you believe in the human soul, afterlife, ghosts, near death experiences or out of body experiences?

aka: does some essence of you exist without your body?

Just the last two

[masquerader]

Umm, you actually provided about five different questions there.

kk, just answer the last one then if you want: does some essence of you exist without your body?

[Wanted]

kk, just answer the last one then if you want: does some essence of you exist without your body?

Well, disregarding all religious aspects...

Technically, yes, because people remember you.

But from the stand point I'm guessing your asking from, I'm not sure.

[RS Rebel]

I think its better to believe than not to believe...=]

[rkroxpunk]

I think its better to believe than not to believe...=]

if that's why u "believe" then ur not really believing....

do you believe in the human soul, afterlife, ghosts, near death experiences or out of body experiences?

aka: does some essence of you exist without your body?

Soul: Yes
AfterLife: as in heaven/hell? yes
ghosts: nope
as for the next 3 i don't really understand what you mean