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Thread: Weaknesses of Evolution.

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    Anything that happens is what God wants to happen. Now, why would God make a Supernova explode next to Earth if he didn't want the Earth to be destroyed?

    Edit: Didn't see Jack's post.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JackLKrawl View Post
    Because Adam and Eve, the first humans, ate from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. In the beginning, man was innocent and unable to sin, because they did not know how. Thus, they were kicked out of the Garden of Eden - the perfect place God created, onto Earth.
    So, if man was innocent, how could they be judged for eating from the Tree if they can not decide what is bad or good. Only after they ate it, they could realise they did something bad. So God cant punish them for that, can he? Also, if everything that god wants happens, then god wanted them to eat from the Tree and therefor god is bad.

    I believe in both evolution and creationism. However, I dont think our creator is the god the bible teaches us. For the simple fact that there are so many wrongs in the bible. Really, I dont see how evolution and creationism can't go hand in hand, what if our creator wanted to have evolution?

    Please dont ask me what our creator would be then, cause i have absolutely no idea. It could be anything.
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    Sorry, IMO, saying that "God wants it to be so" isn't... a valid excuse?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Killerdou View Post
    So, if man was innocent, how could they be judged for eating from the Tree if they can not decide what is bad or good. Only after they ate it, they could realise they did something bad. So God cant punish them for that, can he? Also, if everything that god wants happens, then god wanted them to eat from the Tree and therefor god is bad.
    He didn't tell them to think about whether or not it was good. He simply told them to not eat from the tree. It didn't matter if it made sense to them or not.

    And God is in control of everything. We still have free will, though.

    (It's not supposed to make sense to humans. Deal with it.)

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    He didn't tell them to think about whether or not it was good. He simply told them to not eat from the tree. It didn't matter if it made sense to them or not.
    No, but how can god(if he even exist) punish someone for doing something bad if that person doesnt know what is right and what is wrong, how is he/she supposed to know that what god says has to be done.

    And God is in control of everything. We still have free will, though.
    Thats a contradiction.
    (It's not supposed to make sense to humans. Deal with it.)
    If that is true, then why has it been published in the bible? Also it is not relevant to the topic since pwnaz0r clearly stated that reason should be the base of this discussion and that is clearly no reason, it's called dogmatic believe.
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    (It's not supposed to make sense to humans. Deal with it.)
    Sorry, gets even more... blah to me, IMO explanations like that are too "wide", its the same is I'd say "Everyone give me your geepeez! Don't ask why!"

    EDIT: No offense, ofcourse.

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    God didn't tell them to differentiate between right and wrong. He told them not to eat from it...he didn't tell them it was wrong. The sin was disobeying God, not eating from the tree.

    No...not a contradiction. God gives us free will and let's us do whatever we want, but if he wanted/needed to interfere, he would.

    It's published in the Bible for people that actually open their minds to other ideas. Those are the people that might actually convert to Christianity. The Bible is also proof that God exists
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killerdou View Post
    So, if man was innocent, how could they be judged for eating from the Tree if they can not decide what is bad or good. Only after they ate it, they could realise they did something bad. So God cant punish them for that, can he? Also, if everything that god wants happens, then god wanted them to eat from the Tree and therefor god is bad.

    I believe in both evolution and creationism. However, I dont think our creator is the god the bible teaches us. For the simple fact that there are so many wrongs in the bible. Really, I dont see how evolution and creationism can't go hand in hand, what if our creator wanted to have evolution?

    Please dont ask me what our creator would be then, cause i have absolutely no idea. It could be anything.
    He didn't cast Adam and Eve out because he blamed them, he did it because they were unable to live innocently and they directly disobeyed him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Killerdou View Post
    No, but how can god(if he even exist) punish someone for doing something bad if that person doesnt know what is right and what is wrong, how is he/she supposed to know that what god says has to be done.


    Thats a contradiction.

    If that is true, then why has it been published in the bible? Also it is not relevant to the topic since pwnaz0r clearly stated that reason should be the base of this discussion and that is clearly no reason, it's called dogmatic believe.
    God is the judge, not people. You aren't in the legal system when you die.

    Depends on how you look at it. When it boils down, God is in control of all things, but before it boils down, we get first pick.

    Why do you think they call Evolution a theory? Oh, so Evolution and the stuff pertaining to it is not dogmatic belief? Look around you before you pull something out of the air like that. What would the logical person choose? Another idea scientists have picked up? Or a religion that has existed for over 2000 years, and has still yet to be proven wrong, that can't be proven wrong?
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    Quote Originally Posted by JackLKrawl View Post
    Why do you think they call Evolution a theory? Oh, so Evolution and the stuff pertaining to it is not dogmatic belief? Look around you before you pull something out of the air like that. What would the logical person choose? Another idea scientists have picked up? Or a religion that has existed for over 2000 years, and has still yet to be proven wrong, that can't be proven wrong?
    thats a really bad reason to believe in God. "Oh yea God cant be proven wrong, so thats a good choice " Well evolution cant be proven wrong either. And if i said we were created by some aliens out in space, you cant prove that wrong either.

    And if any of the stories in the bible are real (i havent read it front to back, so...plus i cant really prove any of its wrong anyway -.-) then the story of adam and eve is probably one of the ones i'd say its more of a story that you are supposed to interpret instead of take literally
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Cardin View Post
    thats a really bad reason to believe in God. "Oh yea God cant be proven wrong, so thats a good choice " Well evolution cant be proven wrong either. And if i said we were created by some aliens out in space, you cant prove that wrong either.

    And if any of the stories in the bible are real (i havent read it front to back, so...plus i cant really prove any of its wrong anyway -.-) then the story of adam and eve is probably one of the ones i'd say its more of a story that you are supposed to interpret instead of take literally
    Thats not the reason I believe in God.

    I'll consider religion as a 'theory.' Which theory has had more time to be disproved? Judaism, Christianity, or Evolution? Which was created with more human knowledge? Which was created with less human knowledge? Can any be disproved using human knowledge? Which would be the logical answer?

    Your first paragraph is sad. You completely missed the point. Think of it linearly. Science is something that disproves things with time, why is it having so much trouble with Christianity? Evolution can't have been around for a tenth of Christianity's existence, even with the mass slaughter to prevent Christians from existing. Evolution is a 'fad of the century.'

    I don't think you even read the cover based on the second paragraph. Which branch are you?
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    Being created by some aliens out in space is still being created, and it's still having an intelligent creator. That would be creationism, and that's the point Clay is trying to make.

    And it is possible to prove evolution wrong. If you read back to a post of mine directed at Boreas, you'll find the question I posed: If you have a large box filled with absolutely nothing (the universe), and you want to say that everything we have today was caused by a 'big bang' somewhere inside of it, then where did the material to create the big bang come from?

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    Quote Originally Posted by JackLKrawl View Post
    Or a religion that has existed for over 2000 years, and has still yet to be proven wrong, that can't be proven wrong?
    Then believe in the old egyption gods? Those are WAY older.

    The problem with religion is, that you CANT prove it is wrong OR right. Well, you will know when you died(or you wont know) if god exists or not. You can't quite tell it to anyone living anymore though. How can the bible be proof of gods existence, it only is if god exists(circular reasoning). However, you can proof if evolution is right or wrong.

    Science can evolve, if a scientist proofs something to be wrong, we move on and try to find the real answer. But what if the pope would say god doesnt exist? (...) Science evolves, religion doesnt, simply because it can't as 'god' has determined the rules and those are always true.

    Just one more thing, if you proof god exists, you made god a science and not a religion anymore because he exists and you dont have to believe in him anymore because you know he exists.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jason2gs View Post
    And it is possible to prove evolution wrong. If you read back to a post of mine directed at Boreas, you'll find the question I posed: If you have a large box filled with absolutely nothing (the universe), and you want to say that everything we have today was caused by a 'big bang' somewhere inside of it, then where did the material to create the big bang come from?
    That doesnt prove evolution to be wrong, if something created us, why couldn't it have created evolution along with us? And why do you guys want god to be the creator...

    Wait a second, isnt chirstianity evolution aswell? Only the best(by gods criteria) people go to heaven. Thats selection right? Sometimes people dont do the right things, or do the good things better, thats mutation right? The good ones survive longer since they go to heaven. That sounds like evolution to me?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killerdou View Post
    Then believe in the old egyption gods? Those are WAY older.

    The problem with religion is, that you CANT prove it is wrong OR right. Well, you will know when you died(or you wont know) if god exists or not. You can't quite tell it to anyone living anymore though. How can the bible be proof of gods existence, it only is if god exists(circular reasoning). However, you can proof if evolution is right or wrong.

    Science can evolve, if a scientist proofs something to be wrong, we move on and try to find the real answer. But what if the pope would say god doesnt exist? (...) Science evolves, religion doesnt, simply because it can't as 'god' has determined the rules and those are always true.

    Just one more thing, if you proof god exists, you made god a science and not a religion anymore because he exists and you dont have to believe in him anymore because you know he exists.



    That doesnt prove evolution to be wrong, if something created us, why couldn't it have created evolution along with us? And why do you guys want god to be the creator...

    Wait a second, isnt chirstianity evolution aswell? Only the best(by gods criteria) people go to heaven. Thats selection right? Sometimes people dont do the right things, or do the good things better, thats mutation right? The good ones survive longer since they go to heaven. That sounds like evolution to me?
    lol, do you think that the Egyptian 'religion,' where they worshiped a ball of gas, is still around?

    No, Christianity isn't Evolution, no, not only the best people go to heaven, NO CHRISTIANITY IS NOT POLYTHEISTIC. ARGH.

    WHERE are you people coming up with this stuff? We aren't Buddhists, we don't believe in karma, Killer, you just named none of the stuff we believe in. You're thinking of Buddhism entirely.
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    evolution cant be proven wrong. Unless we find a way to go back in time and see it without dying. Technically you could suggest anything and it cant be proven wrong. I was just trying to get at the way he said it it sounded like- "logical people would choose to believe in God because its been around for 2000 years and cant be proven wrong."

    and the front of the bible says Holy Bible but im serious about that. Yes, a tree of knowledge and a tree of life tree of life makes people immortal. Doesnt seem very realistic to me. There have been movies about living forever. The fountain of youth. and they have been labeled as fantasy.
    God's command not to eat from the tree that was to give Adam and Eve free choice and allow them to earn, as opposed to receive, absolute perfection and intimate communion with God, a higher level than the one on which they were created.


    I dont see why he needs us to come to earth, where there is death, and "evil" when we could just go straight to heaven. Why not just create us already with "intimate connect with God". (retorical cuz u cant answer)

    (not retorical, i want to know)could adam and eve die? jw if death is something adam and eve brought into the world

    EDIT: yea they probably wouldve lived forever because if they cant eat then they have to live forever, or else God would just be starving them =\
    and in the case that they wouldve lived forever then how would they get intimate contact with God
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Cardin View Post
    evolution cant be proven wrong. Unless we find a way to go back in time and see it without dying. Technically you could suggest anything and it cant be proven wrong. I was just trying to get at the way he said it it sounded like- "logical people would choose to believe in God because its been around for 2000 years and cant be proven wrong."

    and the front of the bible says Holy Bible but im serious about that. Yes, a tree of knowledge and a tree of life tree of life makes people immortal. Doesnt seem very realistic to me. There have been movies about living forever. The fountain of youth. and they have been labeled as fantasy.



    I dont see why he needs us to come to earth, where there is death, and "evil" when we could just go straight to heaven. Why not just create us already with "intimate connect with God". (retorical cuz u cant answer)

    (not retorical, i want to know)could adam and eve die? jw if death is something adam and eve brought into the world

    EDIT: yea they probably wouldve lived forever because if they cant eat then they have to live forever, or else God would just be starving them =\
    and in the case that they wouldve lived forever then how would they get intimate contact with God
    To your 'retorical' question. BECAUSE THAT IS OUR PUNISHMENT.
    To your 'not retorical' question. "If you eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, you will surely die," and they did not continue to eat from the Tree of Life.

    To your first paragraph, the logical person would choose Judaism first, second Christianity if they believed that Christ was the son of God, and third Evolution if they had a completely materialistic mind.

    The fountain of youth is labeled as fantasy because there is no record of it. Try Atlantis next.
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    Quote Originally Posted by n3ss3s View Post
    I'm unable to have a deep conversation about existance of god and evolution nor read posts longer than 10 lines, but as an example, in South Park when saddam hussein was building weapons of mass destruction in heaven, masked as a cookie factory he fooled everyone, so if god exists, why do like TEH BAD THINGS happen, like yes, someone raping a child is their own decision, but what about the meteor that hit earth and pwnt half o' planet, that doesn't support any kind of idea of filling earth.

    Or what about if a massive gammashit (I don't know the real English word) or a supernova would explode near earth, would god protect earth?

    I find it very (crossargument raw translated) that "god is everywhere", BUT, hey, earth isn't the only thingie here, imagine some sort of drawing of space in your mind, place a blue ball somewhere there and a god around it, and then again god did everything, why is he around earth - ahhhh my brains - /scar
    Ok n3ss3s, read until I say stop so you don't have to read much .

    Again, I continually say I am not trying to prove a God. I am saying that there is evidence of previous design, and you must believe in God first to ask those questions. That is considered a petty question about God's nature to me, and I will be glad to tell you my opinion if you like, but that has nothing to do with the arguement of intellgent design.


    God is not all about this arguement, none, and I repeat none, of the intellegent design ideas have anything were the answer is just "God". I have scientific fact for everything I believe, unless you get into the philosophical side, which is mostly opinions.

    /stop readin n3ss3s.

    Quote Originally Posted by Killerdou View Post
    So, if man was innocent, how could they be judged for eating from the Tree if they can not decide what is bad or good. Only after they ate it, they could realise they did something bad. So God cant punish them for that, can he? Also, if everything that god wants happens, then god wanted them to eat from the Tree and therefor god is bad.

    I believe in both evolution and creationism. However, I dont think our creator is the god the bible teaches us. For the simple fact that there are so many wrongs in the bible. Really, I dont see how evolution and creationism can't go hand in hand, what if our creator wanted to have evolution?

    Please dont ask me what our creator would be then, cause i have absolutely no idea. It could be anything.
    No. God told adamand eve not to eat of the tree before they ever did. It was a "relic" if you will, one thing were God said "you cannot eat of this" so that man would always have a reminder that God was higher than him. In other words, God would be higher because he said "you cannot eat this". That is why it was in the middle of the Garden, because man would always pass by it.

    Quote Originally Posted by n3ss3s View Post
    Sorry, IMO, saying that "God wants it to be so" isn't... a valid excuse?
    It isn't for me ethier, but nethier is "time makes chance more probable. Especially since the date of the earth has declined from inifnity to 18 billion years all the way down to 4.55-4.6 billion years in this decade alone.

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    I have been reading your posts... Dipshit.


    And all I've gathered is you must just accept some things for the whole creator thing to work out. Sure, you need to do that with evolution, but in some ways each in turn is more plausible than the other.
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    Quote Originally Posted by R0b0t1 View Post
    I have been reading your posts... Dipshit.


    And all I've gathered is you must just accept some things for the whole creator thing to work out. Sure, you need to do that with evolution, but in some ways each in turn is more plausible than the other.
    your 12 year old humor never ceases to amuse me.

    I do not think that the posts from the last two pages ave really been worded properly by people on here.

    Stop ruling intellegent design. Its just as plausible as evolution. Evolution cannot be proved, if so why this debate?

    If I get anything through to you, let it be this: The only way we can get anywhere in this arguement is i must disprove evolution or you must prove it. Leave the God side out of it. You are so good at arguement techniques, so use your brain. If we were designed or we were not, and I disprove you, I am right, and vice versa.

    I will stop there for now since I want you to see that.

    Intellegent design is 100% possible. They are both theories. It is your opinion, and i am showing you that mine is just as plausible as yours, and if you say its not possible, you are jeparidizing you own theory.

    I am rather done being nice, the chance of evolution happening is far less than that of intellegent design. They are both theories, so you must use reason to find out. You choose.

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    This is what I love about this debate. You wind up exactly where you started.
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    No one seems to listen to any of my posts, even though they are very valid. The whole thing about how we are going to get anywhere, that I am not trying to prove a God, that that is just a cheap technique they use because it is philosophical, that my whole theory is based on fact, etc. You need to stop being so ignorant and listen, and don't say I need to because I once was an evolutionist, so you can't. You may say evolution is the new age, yet intellegent design is a newer idea than evolution. It is not the same as religion, even though it might lead to it.

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    I'm suprised how many people in here believe in intelligent design or creationism or whatever you like to call it. Personally I believe I believe (yes, I believe I believe in it) in evolution without a creator. I haven't read the whole thread (oh, boy, my eyes hurt from just a couple of pages), so I don't know all your arguments for a creator.

    Quote Originally Posted by JackLKrawl
    lol, do you think that the Egyptian 'religion,' where they worshiped a ball of gas, is still around?
    I'll just ignore your ignorance to the ancient Egyptian religion (there were actual gods as we know them from other religions - I know there is only one god in Christianity and all that).. But! If God is everywhere isn't he some sort of ball of gas too?
    This sentence is false.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pwnaz0r View Post
    No one seems to listen to any of my posts, even though they are very valid. The whole thing about how we are going to get anywhere, that I am not trying to prove a God, that that is just a cheap technique they use because it is philosophical, that my whole theory is based on fact, etc. You need to stop being so ignorant and listen, and don't say I need to because I once was an evolutionist, so you can't. You may say evolution is the new age, yet intellegent design is a newer idea than evolution. It is not the same as religion, even though it might lead to it.
    Was that directed at me?
    Quote Originally Posted by Gumleren View Post
    I'm suprised how many people in here believe in intelligent design or creationism or whatever you like to call it. Personally I believe I believe (yes, I believe I believe in it) in evolution without a creator. I haven't read the whole thread (oh, boy, my eyes hurt from just a couple of pages), so I don't know all your arguments for a creator.


    I'll just ignore your ignorance to the ancient Egyptian religion (there were actual gods as we know them from other religions - I know there is only one god in Christianity and all that).. But! If God is everywhere isn't he some sort of ball of gas too?
    Polytheistic and DEAD at the same time? Yeah, I knew that. Reread the page, I don't care if your eyes hurt.
    In turn, I'll ignore your ignorance of Christianity.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JackLKrawl View Post
    Was that directed at me?

    Polytheistic and DEAD at the same time? Yeah, I knew that. Reread the page, I don't care if your eyes hurt.
    No, it was directed at people like Gumerlen or whatever, who did not even read the above post.

    Quote Originally Posted by pwnaz0r View Post
    No one seems to listen to any of my posts, even though they are very valid. The whole thing about how we are going to get anywhere, that I am not trying to prove a God, that that is just a cheap technique they use because it is philosophical, that my whole theory is based on fact, etc. You need to stop being so ignorant and listen, and don't say I need to because I once was an evolutionist, so you can't. You may say evolution is the new age, yet intellegent design is a newer idea than evolution. It is not the same as religion, even though it might lead to it.
    Quote Originally Posted by pwnaz0r View Post
    If I get anything through to you, let it be this: The only way we can get anywhere in this arguement is i must disprove evolution or you must prove it. Leave the God side out of it. You are so good at arguement techniques, so use your brain. If we were designed or we were not, and I disprove you, I am right, and vice versa.

    I will stop there for now since I want you to see that.

    Intellegent design is 100% possible. They are both theories. It is your opinion, and i am showing you that mine is just as plausible as yours, and if you say its not possible, you are jeparidizing you own theory.

    I am rather done being nice, the chance of evolution happening is far less than that of intellegent design. They are both theories, so you must use reason to find out. You choose.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JackLKrawl
    Polytheistic and DEAD at the same time?
    Who died? Yes, the Egyptians believed in polytheism - but what's with the dead part?
    This sentence is false.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pwnaz0r View Post
    No, it was directed at people like Gumerlen or whatever, who did not even read the above post.
    OK, I was worried you misunderstood my circles comment. BRB JELLO!!!!
    Quote Originally Posted by Gumleren View Post
    Who died? Yes, the Egyptians believed in polytheism - but what's with the dead part?
    Ex. Latin is a dead language.

    Is it just me, or does this section lag a whole lot? I'll often find one or two posts before mine after I revisit the thread, that I don't see on a refresh.
    Active only during the Summer...

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