anyway, there really is no point to this arguing, obviously nobody is swaying the other side. I'm out.
anyway, there really is no point to this arguing, obviously nobody is swaying the other side. I'm out.
sigh. I don't even know where to begin. I've already pretty much ended. I supose all there is left to do is disprove the people who think they are proving something.
Yakman, i think you have said this twice now, so it must be pretty critical to you.I am not sure what you are trying to prove here... Perhaps sujesting religion is unjust to people who are unable to believe? Or perhaps saying that all a religion is about is believing. Still not sure what your getting at, but I can give you an answer to your question. I actually prayed about it and this is what I felt. I know that God will never expect you to do something you are incapable of. And I know that God is 100% just, therefore, if this scenario that you describe does happen, then they would be accepted into heaven with open arms. However, I think that anyone with a soul is capable in beliving. Granted, beliving in things not seen is hard, but I think it is possible by everyone.Originally Posted by yakman
Please think about how weak your argument is before you say it. 500 people that I have no reason to trust. We are talking around 2000 years ago where the only record is documents that have defanitly been tampered with. We are talking uber weak proof.Originally Posted by isjusme
and yakman is 100% right, the bible in itself is not right. The people who wrote and re-wrote it all had agendas and bias of their own. If you don't read it with insight you have a pretty good risk of getting garbage out of it.
Yes! Thank you, 100% on the dot. Ftw. Everyone else, read it.Originally Posted by Robot
yep, you get it too, gz.Originally Posted by isjusme
[IMG]http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2120/2052732965_348f3629d0_o.jpg[/IMG]
there is a lot of point in arguing,
it helps your formulate your ideas, and to think about life more critically,
also it helps to rally people who agree with you, just in case they feel like giving up, it can help them when they remember there are others like them.
and occasionally, very occasionally, people do change their religion because of it,
please dont go around saying, "all of this is pointness, no-one ever changed their mind", they do, I've seen it happen,
and changing people's mind isnt the only reason to debate
@R0b0t, you say there is no proof either side, that doesnt mean the debate should just stop,
there are many things that have no "proof" either way, in those cases, you look for arguments for and against,
for example, theres the idea that gases are made up of a large number of particles, with relatively large amounts of empty space between them.
there is no proof either way for this idea, but you can construct convincing arguments for and against,
an argument for, is that you can compress a gas a lot,
an argument against, is that this compression could just mean the particles are very soft,
probably the only time you'll find actual proof for something is in mathematical theorems, like actual proof that there is an infinite amount of prime numbers.
so lets come up with convincing arguments for and against the existence of god.
Join the Official SRL IRC channel. Learn how to Here.
im not that good at debating and probably will get torn apart, but here i go anyways.
First, lets get the cold, hard facts down because I know you guys like those. Historically there really was a man named Jesus Christ. This has been proven. He went around preaching saying he was the Son of God and starting his own ministry. He was also put to death on the cross, for not denying he was the Son of God. He was put to death with 2 other people on each side of him, they were theifs, getting put to death. I forgot the number but a TON of people went to Jesus's tomb 3 days earlier, and there was no body. This would explain that he rose to Heaven and would come back.
Now, on to what i believe and when i tell you you wont believe me anyways, but whatever. My dad had a friend who died twice on the operating table from a heart attack. The doctors brought him back alive both times, he was dead for 10 minutes total. He told me that he went to Heaven. He told me that God and Jesus looked " like they were from Jerlusum(sp?)". Dark skinned etc. He told me everyone was getting along etc and it was beautiful.
it is also faith. When i pray i know there is someone there watching over me, i can feel it. The Bible is also a very interesting book, heres an internet verison. http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...r=6&version=31
i dont know about you but that seems wayyyy to complicated for just somebody to make up.
"For it is not what goes into your mouth that will defile you; rather, it is what comes out of your mouth that defiles you." - Jesus of Nazareth
"For it is not what goes into your mouth that will defile you; rather, it is what comes out of your mouth that defiles you." - Jesus of Nazareth
There are many arguments I have. One of mine isn't really an arguement, but it is the main reason why I don't believe in the Christian god or any other gods. When I was 6, my mother passed away, she was in her mid 30's and cherishing life, my father was left to raise me on his own. I turned out okay, and he is now happily remarried, but I want to know, why? Why did god let her die? I mean, we weren't the most religious family, but we weren't identified as heretics..
And what father would let his son die? and in such a horrific way.
http://www.draynor.net/skill/forest/...drewrox424.png
http://www.draynor.net/skill/glossyb...drewrox424.png
http://www.draynor.net/skill/elegree...drewrox424.png
http://www.stats.srl-forums.com/sigs/4579.png
Click Here to support me in getting rs membership and signing up for Bux3 Earn money yourself while helping me!
"For it is not what goes into your mouth that will defile you; rather, it is what comes out of your mouth that defiles you." - Jesus of Nazareth
its not too complicated, if you ever read book by gore vidal or charles dickens, they are also complicated,
if you ever read a high level physics textbook, that gets quite complicated as well,
also if you ever read about the internal workings of a computer, and how to write a kernel, thats quite complicated as well
the bible could have easily been written by men (or women)
also, just because its interesting, does not make it true. On that basis, we should worship harry potter :P
i think his point was if you don't believe in God, its a sure way to go to hell, you cannot go to heaven without believing in God.
as for those personal experiences, could it be that your dad's friend was hallucinating, or the drugs they give him went to his brain,
also, if he wasn't going to die, God knew this, so why did he go up to heaven for a short while?
also, how can you feel someone watching over you, when someone watches you, they see light that has reflected off you and gone into their eyes,
the only way you can know if they are watching you, is if you also watch them.
so could you just explain this "feeling", which you apparently didn't sense with any of your 5 senses.
Join the Official SRL IRC channel. Learn how to Here.
ok ill try to explain it. Its starts its mt stomach like a burning sensation, but it just feels awesome. idk its really hard to explain
"For it is not what goes into your mouth that will defile you; rather, it is what comes out of your mouth that defiles you." - Jesus of Nazareth
when i said "
But i don't believe in god because our world has so much complicated things"
I meant.
I do believe in God, but i don't believe in him over just saying our world is so complicated things. Such as the eye.
sorry, i was tired.
Okay, yea i am not good at debating, but i have a question, if Jesus rose from his tomb, why would his whole body go? Wouldn't just his spirit? The people on earth who die, and say they go to heaven, their body's are still in their coffin, why would Jess's whole body go?
That's called thought, hope, fear, relief...
You think about God and when you think about him you think that will make you feel reassured hence you feel relief you feel.. good..
It is thought..
I can be scared of i dunno.. er.. spiders.. this huge tarantula comes real close to me and you FEEL scared
or when you are waiting for that Christmas present just before you open it you feel something.. these are all brain thoughts..
I never said (I think) that this argument should end. I simply said we will probably never get a conclusion relevant to the topic and body of the question, which is whether God exists (Well, its pretty much your question -- in reverse).
There are multiple theories on both sides, yet each one disproves each other constantly. The problem is such as if one is true, the other must not be true and can not be true (at least at the same time).
Thus, unless otherwise proven, I believe the answer is you must prove it to yourself. Since there is no proof for either side totally, it could be either or none.
@oliver - sounds like an orgasm...
The jealous temper of mankind, ever more disposed to censure than
to praise the work of others, has constantly made the pursuit of new
methods and systems no less perilous than the search after unknown
lands and seas.
You are assuming that all these people wrote down there account immediately, leaving no time for forgetfulness or anything. You are assuming that no one lied. You are assuming that these people were actually there – just because you write or record or testify about something, doesn’t mean that you were actually there. The fact that hundreds of people saw him die, very nice, a man died, but there are only 500 people who saw him after he rose – which is the important part – and you have to figure out how many of those 500 people’s testimonies are accurate. Also, what is to stop anyone from tampering with written records, anyone can take a little scroll, read it, change some wording, and republish it. Anyone between those 500 people and today (including those 500 people) could have had agendas or biases of there own to influence their writing.
Here is the thing about the Bible. A single person did not write it, it was many people “inspired by God” and therefore would not be too complex to make up. Also, you may say, well if all these people have the same views, doesn’t that point to stronger evidence. Well the answer to that is a clear no, and here is why. In the Bible, it is divided into “gospels” each written by a different person. It is a well-known fact that there are MANY other gospels (not all of them are at all true or accurate, but a good number have just as much authenticity as the ones in the Bible). Many of these gospels as well as many within the Bible itself have contradicting passages.
For any number of reasons. God is God and therefore we are not able to understand how he thinks and how he makes decisions and how he works. Perhaps it was to test your faith. Perhaps because your new mother will tell you a particular thing that will change your life. The butterfly effect is constantly in motion in the world around us and only God can see the whole picture (if you think he exists, that is).
Good question that no one answered. Here is what the answer is according to Christian beliefs (correct me if I am wrong): This is because while any human can go to heaven in spirit, only the extremely holy and pious go with there body (aka resurrection). The only people who have done this are Jesus, Mary (the virgin mother) and MAYBE Saint Peter (not sure on that one, but I thought there was a third).
I think there is great purpose in this debate. For those who believe in God, every argument against your beliefs that you overcome is just strengthening your faith. For those who don’t believe in God, you are practicing debating and critical thinking skills and perhaps you will learn something that can change your life.This argument is pointless
Just wanted to first say that everything in Science is a theory or hypothesis and not a fact. Fact is a word given to something that is true, but nothing can be completely true if it is in our world/dimension/universe etc.
Religion has survived for thousands of years because of lack of proof against it. It is impossible to disprove or prove God's existence with physical material, therefore it is impossible to prove a hypothesis valid. In this instance it is a matter of opinion rather than a fact, thus my post rolls together
I know I brought nothing to the table, but when the table is thousands of years old and crumbling beneath us, it would just be on the floor in minutes anyway![]()
By reading this signature you agree that mixster is superior to you in each and every way except the bad ways but including the really bad ways.
No-one has mentioned the sightings/visions/apparitions of Virgin Mary.
[CENTER][img]http://signatures.mylivesignature.com/54486/113/4539C8FAAF3EAB109A3CC1811EF0941B.png[/img][/CENTER]
[CENTER][BANANA]TSN ~ Vacation! ~ says :I Love Santy[/BANANA][/CENTER]
[CENTER][BANANA]Raymond - Oh rilie? says :Your smart[/BANANA][/CENTER]
the difference is, that science has much evidence in favour of it, but religion has much less
Like someone said that gravity can influence light, making it bend
Someone else made an observation during an eclipse of the sun, and notice how two stars appear to move,
This is a evidence of the theory that gravity can bend light.
are you saying we should take this theory equally seriously as the God Theory?
there is the theory of motion, mostly come up with by Issac Newton, and there is a lot of evidence that it works, people use it to calculate how to control a spacecraft so it can reach mars,
but its still only a theory, and by your logic, it should be taken equally seriously as the theory that things move because they have a life force in them...
btw, in mathematics, things can be completely proven,
like the formula
a^n + b^n = c^n
has been proved that there are no solutions when n is bigger then 2
in other parts if science, its a theory
I believe in the Invisble Pink Unicorn! and its impossible to disprove it,
by your logic, this idea should survive for thousands of years
religion only survives because it is shamelessly hammered into children every sunday,
religion and science are competing theories, one has much more evidence then the other, in any other situation, religion would have been discarded, but it stubbornly persists,
Join the Official SRL IRC channel. Learn how to Here.
My personal favorite religion is The Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster. It is (obviously) a mock religion, but for anyone that has not read it follow the link. It makes several extremely good points, is absolutely hilarious, and proves that the decline of pirates is causing global warming.... Good luck out there...
ok ok ok lol im gunna keep this short as im lasy else it would be a massive rant
piont 1
before the big bang there was hydrogen compacted realy tightly with a very large density almost infinitum b4 that is what we have now b4 that is the tight ball again and so on and so on into a chicken/egg idea
piont 2 i cant prove that god doesnt exist
but
can god make a pizza so hot that he cant eat it
if yes then he is not all powerfull
if no then he is not all powerfull
Blank!
You're forgetting that while religion is 'hammered' into children every Sunday, the hypothesis of Evolution is 'hammered' into children every weekday in school.
How can you say one has more evidence than the other? If what I read in my textbook was correct, just about every piece of evidence you have for Evolution is, as best, unconfirmed.
If not, then please, put forth your evidence. We'll study it, judge it, and, if possible, shoot it down without remorse.
(Because, isn't that what you're supposed to do in this type of debate?)
-Mike
No evidence for evolution?!?!
Well, once upon a time (12 February 1809 – 19 April 1882 actually) there was a man named Charles Darwin. He came up with the theory of evolution and the idea of natural selection. I will give you some links to some reading.
If you are only going to read one, read this: http://anthro.palomar.edu/evolve/evolve_3.htm
Nice easy one on wikipedia: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution
Really good one here that does some explaining: http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/evolution-fact.html
www.darwins-theory-of-evolution.com/
www.conservapedia.com/Theory_of_Evolution
www.spaceandmotion.com/Charles-Darwin-Theory-Evolution.htm
www.ucmp.berkeley.edu/history/evolution.html
www.talkorigins.org/faqs/evolution-fact.html
If you want more I can get you many, many, many more...
well you asked for proof and there it is. It's not like I discovered it myself. I mean usually that is how you proove things is by citing information. You want me to give you a book or a magazine article or something?
And clearly you do not understand what YOU are talking about if you think there is no evidence for evolution. I came here for a knowledgeable debate to, so make sure you know what you are talking about before saying anything...
I don't mind you giving me things to read, but don't make that all you give me. Give me some of your own words, and I'll be happy to have a sensible argument with you.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teMlv3ripSM
(Couldn't resist.)
Oh, in that case... I was citing a reference as well. My biology book.
One area where science has failed is... there is no proof on how the universe could of possibly started because of the amount of hellium in the sun and universe... thats how we orignally came up with the bigbang... The original theory was that universe started as a big clump of hydrogen (I think). and formed together to make giant starts which eventually made every element of the world.
I think string theory might come into the starting existence of the universe but it looks like it's coming to a dead end from my point of view... 11 dimensions sounds so fake... and there are also 5 different types of string theory...
My brother is studying advance science in uni... maybe I could probably ask him later...
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)