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Thread: if god is so good, whys there evil in the world?

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    Quote Originally Posted by rostaryms View Post
    Someone, anyone please, I challenge you, give me any bit, just one bit of evidence for there being a god. . .
    Written records

    Though that's what this whole argument is isn't it? Whether or not the Bible or any other religious book speaks the truth.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Cardin View Post
    if you dont know what gravity is then it cant really be a fact now can it?
    you can prove facts (when we assume that anything is even proveable), you cant prove gravity. Its like saying

    "God is fact! i cant prove him, yet he's still definitely up there! so Ha!"

    and that is just silly and makes no sense, now does it?
    Indeed I can prove gravity, anybody can.

    God is not observable, therefore, he is not fact. God is a matter of beliefs, not facts, until he makes himself observable one way or another.

    Next in line, please?
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    (sigh), can't anyone help me out here..? I don't want to get to debating again. Here is your answer, God is just in His word. Man is corrupted not God. See there you atheists go again, using circular reason to justify there is no God. This post won't matter to 99% of the people that read it. But its true. It's possible, and it uses correct reasoning. God gave man the ability to choose. To make a choice, you have to have two options. Those are good and evil. God didn't even have to create us. He created us just for relationships we can have with him and other humans. He gives man a choice, to choose him or to not to. And let me be the first to say, that I believe that atheists are the root of alot of evil in the world. Not to say that there aren't very very good atheists, but to say that the everyday college kid that doesn't care about anything is the guy who does the bad drugs, who sleeps around and doesn't care that does anything he wants to get anything. Anyways, Christian's, true christians that is, try to make the world a better place and we are saved. Anyways, this is following that the definition of a true christian is the fact of the above sentence. Anyways, let me answer your next question that pain is God's loudspeaker to a world. Same reason any parent spanks a child, you could say "no.." in a quiet voice, or you could spank them. Which do you think will work.

    And if you think this is harsh, fine. I'm tired of dealing with this, I have seen some pretty insulting ideas and messages sent on this thread and others. I have full rights to believe what I believe, I have all the facts in the world, I have never once been "beaten" on even one point of debate, I answer every answer adequately, and yet no one even cares? Anyways, this is not me around the forums, so don't hate me because of this . I'm just upset right now :P


    EDIT: AND HA TO THE PERSON WHO SAID GIVE ME ONE FACT. tbh, i've said that about proving evolution to people who have made more of contribution than a single question.

    want a list proving GOD?

    1. Fine tunings of universe. the chances of jsut that happening is more than 10 ^999999999.

    think of it this way. If you spent a billion dollars every second, and you just 10 ^ 21, it would take you over a trillion years to spend it all, even at 1 bill per second, you can't fathem that number above.. if you don't know what this is, you haven't done your homework and have no right to talk to someone who has put days of work into it.

    2. Cambrian explosion.

    3. DNA, it doesn't prove your theory it proves mine. The 98% that is the same are things that don't even have to do with appearance, just that its DNA.

    4. Evolution doesn't have one true fact, not idea. If so name it?

    5. You obviously have never studied the chance of cells or how they come together etheir.

    6. irreducible complexity

    7. Emotions, feelings, morals.

    Thats jsut a few. I'm not going to explain, because one of two things will happen

    1. You will say that I'm jsut a stupid theist and that those are all made up.
    2. You will go look them up on wikipedia, which is so biased. I tryed to look up a book on Intellegent design, and all I found were things proving it wrong, which i laughed at the answers anyway.

    You won't accept it, just go on believing that there isn't a God. I firmly believe that anyone who doesn't believe in a God is uniformed on the facts.

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    its stupid Pwn, i said exactly that, it simply gets ignored, they dont care, we get frustrated with repeating ourselves and they think they won...

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    I know, funny thing is we actually have facts, they don't have one. But don't worry, you guys win . There, I'm going off like you guys do, I've held my cool long enough. This is what you guys to do us everyday, all day, so don't even think about getting mad at me. I take this all day everyday when I am in this specific forum.

    IF ANYONE HAS ONE FACT PROVEN ABOUT EVOLUTION PLEASE COME FORWARD. The only one I have ever heard is DNA, which they were wrong about... Take some interest, don't just listen to the biased scientists, look into it yourself.

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    I hate it when people ask these question because they really don't have much meaning.

    If God Is so good, why do roses have thorns? -.-

    I think he did it so you guys would ask these dumb questions .

    According to the bible God created the world because he wanted to test us.
    So when you ask questions like this, i think it's dumb because if he put us on a earth with perfect all - well being and everyone is jumping in lah lah land. then what purpose is there?

    Also, most of the things besides natural causes are our fault.
    You can't blame God because somebody shot your granny in the middle of the street. It's just plain stupid.

    even though i believe in God, I am no longer a believer in Religion. I really don't like it much. I told my bishop, my mom, and everyone else. When some of them say "Well, I think the devil is working on you" I Get so angry.
    I could say, "Well, I Think The Devil is trying to keep you from the truth".

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    As pwnaz0r said, God didn't create sin, God created man with choice, man chose to turn away from God and sin.

    Also, show me one person that has been changed for the better by the theory of evolution or being an atheist, and I'll show you 1,000 people who have been changed for the better by a loving and gracious God.


    Edit: You know what, never mind. I'm just going to say that it's between you and God. My cousin recently returned to the Lord after not following after him for several years by an atheist. I strongly encourage you to read the bible. I can only pray that the holy spirit will work on you.


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    aww c'mon pwnaz0r, I've told you about those fossils a million times.

    also Bobarkinator, you appear to be saying that it doesnt matter if its true or false, what matters is making humans betters, and humans are better if they believe in god.

    and about i bible, i do read it, mostly to see for myself the clearly ridiculous things, like how we're not allowed to work on a saturday, homosexuals must be stoned and that pi == 3.

    reading the bible has actually taken me further away from belief.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yakman View Post
    now watch as many religious people come up with an excuse for it.

    the simple answer is because god doesn't exist.
    I second that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yakman View Post
    aww c'mon pwnaz0r, I've told you about those fossils a million times.

    also Bobarkinator, you appear to be saying that it doesnt matter if its true or false, what matters is making humans betters, and humans are better if they believe in god.

    and about i bible, i do read it, mostly to see for myself the clearly ridiculous things, like how we're not allowed to work on a saturday, homosexuals must be stoned and that pi == 3.

    reading the bible has actually taken me further away from belief.

    Ill go out and say it, I dont think homosexuals should be stoned ect. But homosexuality is wrong and, I believe, a choice... Where in the Bible does it say pi=3? you just are being rediculous now, you seem to think that Christians are close-minded biggots, when really it is you who is that way, you conform to what you are tought (wrongly i might add), the fact that teachers are not allowed to teach simply, what is wrong with evolution is just rediculous...

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    Quote Originally Posted by sirlaughsalot View Post
    Ill go out and say it, I dont think homosexuals should be stoned ect. But homosexuality is wrong and, I believe, a choice... Where in the Bible does it say pi=3? you just are being rediculous now, you seem to think that Christians are close-minded biggots, when really it is you who is that way, you conform to what you are tought (wrongly i might add), the fact that teachers are not allowed to teach simply, what is wrong with evolution is just rediculous...
    Well, what's wrong with homosexuality? how is it "wrong" ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Esteban View Post
    Indeed I can prove gravity, anybody can.

    God is not observable, therefore, he is not fact. God is a matter of beliefs, not facts, until he makes himself observable one way or another.

    Next in line, please?
    no you cannot. You can assume that its gravity. Lets even go so far as to say that you know what gravity is. You still cannot prove to me that it exists.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Cardin View Post
    no you cannot. You can assume that its gravity. Lets even go so far as to say that you know what gravity is. You still cannot prove to me that it exists.
    That argument is like multiplying or dividing by 0 in an equation: ruins everything.

    Prove to me one fact...then we'll talk.

    And no offence but Yakman, this is seriously becoming stupid. You're repeating your arguments, disregarding all the rebuttals completely.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Cardin View Post
    no you cannot. You can assume that its gravity. Lets even go so far as to say that you know what gravity is. You still cannot prove to me that it exists.
    If I know what gravity is, then it would be fact. And to prove that something is fact it has to be objective and observable. You can observe gravity every day, so I would have no need to prove it to you.
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    This kind of threads are ridiculous, as both sides have chosen their opinion, or someone has chosen them for them (if your parents and everyone around you keep saying God exists. God exists. God exists. God exist.... your whole life of course you'll believe it), and only way to change your mind is to "prove god doesnt exist", and that sounds really childish. In my eyes all big religions are just cults started ages ago that could easily spread in the simple times when nobody really knew much about anything, and the belief has sort of passed from parents to their children since then.

    Well, it's quite amusing to read the excuses religious people make to "Useless questions like this" or "questions that don't matter". Pretty nice that a question doesn't matter at all immediately if it can't be answered using the bible or so.

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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by rostaryms View Post
    Someone, anyone please, I challenge you, give me any bit, just one bit of evidence for there being a god. . .
    Written records

    Though that's what this whole argument is isn't it? Whether or not the Bible or any other religious book speaks the truth.
    Written records?!?
    The bible is full of falsities. The bible is just made up stories that are supposed to preach good moral. We know it is impossible to walk on water. We know it is impossible to part a sea by spreading our arms. We know it is impossible to come back from the dead.
    And while there are actually some things true in the bible, such as: Jesus did exist, he was jesus of nasurath, a carpenter, if you actually believe half the bullshit in there... well, then good luck with the rest of your life.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rostaryms View Post
    Written records?!?
    The bible is full of falsities. The bible is just made up stories that are supposed to preach good moral. We know it is impossible to walk on water. We know it is impossible to part a sea by spreading our arms. We know it is impossible to come back from the dead.
    And while there are actually some things true in the bible, such as: Jesus did exist, he was jesus of nasurath, a carpenter, if you actually believe half the bullshit in there... well, then good luck with the rest of your life.
    Are you implying that christians are all complete idiots?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hugolord View Post
    Well, what's wrong with homosexuality? how is it "wrong" ?
    Do you get the point of sex? Its to reproduce. A man and a man or a woman and a woman do not reproduce, therefor it is against nature, and wrong. You believe in nature right?

    Anyway that is not the point of this thread...

    You see all the "fallacies" that are in the Bible are looked at through the wrong perspective. You look at it through the eyes of a non-believer, we look at those stories and to us they prove that with God anything is possible. It is not probable however, that the Bible will be proven except at the end of days, and if that happens in our lifetime, i hope you will stop being blind and join the winning side.

    If you want to know some modern day miracles, read "Tortured for Christ". It is a book with amazing stories of things hapenning in countries with restricted religion that are not explainable through anything else but God.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yakman View Post
    its a theory in the same way that gravity is a theory. Its not a matter of opinion or belief.



    I fail to see how I'm defending myself here, I'm pointing something out, not defending.




    my friend believes in Allah and Muhammad, will that suffice?
    my other friend believes in Buddha, that good enough?
    seems the typical "believe in this or something bad will happen to you"



    About the god-evil business.

    1. Assume god exists,
    2. Assume god is good and all-powerful.

    therefore, there should be no 'evil' (or bad) things happening, because god can stop them if he wants (since he's all-powerful) and he wants to stop them (since he's good)

    however, we see 'evil' (or bad) things happening in the world today. (hunger, cancer, global warming, the credit crunch, soldiers dying in Iraq, american democrat party being ahead in polls)

    so theres a contradiction in assumption number 2.
    therefore god cannot be both good and all-powerful.

    ^^ thats the way i see things anyway.
    Read again.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Esteban View Post
    If I know what gravity is, then it would be fact. And to prove that something is fact it has to be objective and observable. You can observe gravity every day, so I would have no need to prove it to you.
    -,- you do not get the point that i am trying to make.

    and in addition "If I know what gravity is, then it would be fact." makes no sense.

    "prove that something is fact it has to be objective and observable." no, you cannot observe atoms (as far as i know), yet it is accepted as fact.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Cardin View Post
    -,- you do not get the point that i am trying to make.

    and in addition "If I know what gravity is, then it would be fact." makes no sense.

    "prove that something is fact it has to be objective and observable." no, you cannot observe atoms (as far as i know), yet it is accepted as fact.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scannin...ing_microscope
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yakman View Post
    aww c'mon pwnaz0r, I've told you about those fossils a million times.

    also Bobarkinator, you appear to be saying that it doesnt matter if its true or false, what matters is making humans betters, and humans are better if they believe in god.

    and about i bible, i do read it, mostly to see for myself the clearly ridiculous things, like how we're not allowed to work on a saturday, homosexuals must be stoned and that pi == 3.

    reading the bible has actually taken me further away from belief.
    I'm glad you read all of posts.


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    Ok I stopped reading about halfway since I posted, sorry people on this page.

    Look Yakman, you have proved to me nothing. I have told you, or anyone who has tried to explain fossils to me, that the fossil record has never bailed Darwin out, which he said it would. Let me teach you a tiny lesson in fossils.

    There have been two fossils known the evolution has stood upon. That would not be enough, even if they weren't both false. Those fossils are Java man, and Archeopterix. (spelled wrong)

    Archeopterics was supposed to be the missing link between reptile and bird. However, it had and air bladder, the bones were too light for a reptile to maintain its weight, there were no traces or scales, the entire body structure was found to be suitable to that of common day birds. Its an extinct bird... nothing more. I thought that fossil was "buried" in this debate long ago, when high evolutionist scientists denounced it.

    Java man, ha. This one kind of makes me laugh. Java man is supposed to be the most well known fossil that supports evolution. Want to know exactly what Java man is? According to the edition of Time magazine, Java man is 3 bones found within a 50 foot radius. They are not even prominent bones, such as the skull cap, a piece of the jaw, and the hip bone. Scientists reconstructed the rest. Yet the pass it off as proof.

    So there they are, the two main fossils of evolution, disproved long ago. Also, do you want to know why I will never believe in the fossil record?

    1. Scientists get it wrong. Example? A group of scientists in North Africa found a group of skulls and bones scattered within the same size of villages of the time which they were thought to be. The skull caps were smaller, causing them to think that they had in fact found less intellegent, earlier forms of man. However, it was later proved that these skulls were just chimpansee heads, which the natives used to scoop out there brains and eat them. The carcasses were then thrown aside into a fire in a ritual. What scientists thought were men being burned alive, where monkey carcasses being thrown into a fire..

    2. Man is corrupt. He wants money. Scientists want money. Haeckel's drawings anyone? I don't remember the specifics on this one (theres a first time for everything, ) but I do remember the jist of it. Basically A man claimed to have found a fossil of a man that existed, I think 50 million years ago. He turned it into the fossil museum in Britan (can't remember the name sorry ), and after 2 years, it was found to be something crazy like a pig skull that was doctored. I have seen many of these cases..


    So call me skeptical. When you give a simple answer, which is the only answer you can give me to defend your "so called theory", and I disassemble the only two fossils that have even become famous enough to reach my ears, and I go looking for them, and I prove that any scientist will do anything for money or fame, give examples and leave you with the fact I know many more but become weary of typing them, thats a little rough to me don't you think?

    Anyways... anyone who doesn't believe there is a God, don't talk to me about anything metaphysical, and here's why. You don't believe in God, therefore there are no morals, you can't have them, you can't have a consicience. if you say you can, your a hypocrite. Terms like survival of the fittest, and social darwinism come to mind. If thats true, why do you feel compassion to that man who your about to kill in war that's pleading for his life and that he has a wife and 3 kids, just to let him live to see them another day? You can't connect with that man on that level, because all we are are random composition of atoms and molecules, nothing more, no purpose.

    To clear up that last point, don't ask questions about God when you don't believe he could be here. Why? Because you are unfair to yourself and the sake of arguement( certainly not me, because I play by the rules ). You ask questions about morality without believing there even could be AKA going in to an arguement with questions of a theist and presuppositions of an atheist. That is a combination that will set yourself up to fail in answering the question truely. I never come into an arguement with that, I come in open minded and this is what I come out with...not to mention the impact it has had on my life and the things that have happened to me that cannot be explained by anything but God.

    That's the answer to your question, sirlaughsalot. (above, you ask why they won't accept it).

    EDIT:

    and haha, I love when people bring up the Bible thing Yakman. Not only are you doing the above, but you don't, and can't, understand the Bible yet. Here is your answer, you basically took it out of context. Those rules were meant to the people of the old testiment, some 8000 years ago at least. When did God ever say to do that today. Those rules were meant for them specifically. God never said to do that, see how you distort it?

    1. You go in not even really seeking knowledge, you wouldn't accept it even if you thought it could be true (atheistic pressupositions, not real knowledge seeking ideas).

    2. You took it out of context.

    3. You took it out of time period.

    4. You made it sound like God told the people of today to do these things.

    And thats what atheists do, this being a good example. They twist and distort things until it fits their story, hammer it into their believe, and don't budge. And if you don't believe me, save it, because I was one, just as much as anyone out there, I was one. I thought I had it all figured out too, so don't tell me what you think you know, because I was that guy...

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    God Gave us Free will , without it we would be a robot...

    YAKMAN:
    no we wernt, we came about through evolution by natural selection,

    so the rest of your post falls down because this assertion is wrong.
    Lets assume God exists.

    This is why i made this thread to answer this =
    if you cannot assume God exists then why post here you have your thoughts on creation, we have ours why must you argu so much?


    Anyway to anser this thread..

    Evil is , because if god did not give humans free will we would be robotic and controled .. that is why there is evil.



    EDIT: PawnZoR you ownz all.

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    This can be answered with another dodgey, open-ended question;

    "If programmers are so educated on the internet, why do viruses still exist?"

    It's basically the same principle, but on a more insignificant level.
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