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Thread: Gay Marriage

  1. #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by nxpert View Post
    So I really don't understand why an atheist homosexual is complaining about not being able to get married.
    If you read the first post you would find the answer to this question. Marriage is not a "holy thing" in the 21st century. It's simply a legal bind that most often can decide where money goes in the case of death, child alimony (adopted or otherwise), and other legal problems. You are free to consider marriage what you want, but when it comes down to the law, it's very important that everyone has the same ability to get married, regardless of their partner's sex.

    Really, most homosexuals would love to NOT get married. They don't want it because they like god or something, but because it's a very important legal tie.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Dosbag View Post
    Lev. 20:13, "If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltness is upon them"

    The bible does not discriminate on this dudes. Jesus isn't the one doing the stoning though you are right with that.

    I don't care what your personal beliefs are whether religious or otherwise that gives you NO RIGHT to keep other people form pursuing things like gay marriage or being homosexual. You can believe what you want but as soon as it infringes on peoples rights you keep it only as a personal belief.

    Also ggzz.. Just stop dude.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sandstorm View Post
    Your sexuality is a personal choice, in my opinion. I don't think the state/province/whatever government should be allowed to say who's allowed to get married and who isn't. As long as they (you?) keep it out of the streets, then I'm fine with the personal choices.
    I don't care how old your post is
    Far from it, rarely do people choose which sex they like, and in most cases it isn't possible for someone else to comprehend why others like a gender, whether or not they like the same gender as that person.

    I have a big population of bi and gay guys on my forums, and I've known them for 5+ years, some even up to 10 years, I don't see what's wrong with letting them get benefits married couples get from the government. I don't like marriage for straight or homosexuals... but the benefits should be present for EVERYONE... straights have the option to get married or just "bonded" by government so they get the "benefits", there's no reason two girls or two guys shouldn't be able to get that too.
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    I'm totally cool with gay people. I'm totally not cool with flamers. I'm totally not cool with gay flamers. I'm totally not cool with straight flamers. I'm sure you know what I mean by these statements.

    I think the government should allow gay marriage. It is not their place to establish a standard for marriage.

    However, I feel like full tolerance by society is a long way off. While unfortunate, this is how it is for now, and people need to realize that society's standards will not change overnight. They will change eventually, but everyone has to deal with the fact that it will take longer than it is supposed to.

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    There have been multiple occasions where two twinborn have different sexual preferences, which highly suggests that there is not something they are born with...

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    yea no doubt, I don't think we're born with anything in our brain, just a blank hard drive with maybe a basic OS on it

    how it's changed and programmed, especially in our very young life, really makes the foundation for what/who you are.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ggzz View Post
    Guess ur pretty damn brainwashed urself.. Don't listen to the media.. stop watching tv. Can you tell me the difference between a gay baby and a straight baby?

    As far as I know, children don't know they're gay.. they decide when they hit puberty.. so I suggest u stop bashing his opinion cuz that was a dumb statement as well. Shit all is proven.. Science can't even understand the quantum entanglement theory fully and yet ur trying to figure out gay vs straight BABIES?! Ppl keep pushing this gay agenda and idea that everyone must be gay.. You don't see us straight ppl saying anything bout turning them straight.. they want everyone to be gay.. gayness is a damn fashion statement in hollywood now. its a trend. If they so gay, why does one gay person in their gay relationship act like a female.. and the other try to be a man? They clearly decide between themselves who take it in the ass and who doesn't.. Why do they even bother talking in that stupid lisp girl voice..

    Riddle me this.. when a gay dude is undercover, he talks manly n shit.. all of a sudden he comes out in the open and u hear the voice of a pussy.. why? What was wrong with his voice before huh?

    People do CHOOSE to be gay. I just don't see how u can look at another burly ass dude and say u want him. wtf? I mean come on!! Women look so damn good and appealing.. The vagina was specifically made for the male counterpart.. we have sticks, they have holes.. U ejaculate from ur stick, they from their hole.. NOT THEIR ASSHOLE wtf kinda shit is that..
    1) Gays want us to be gay as-well? I know some gay kids and they do not care what the fuck I do with my sexuality.
    2) Why should you, or anyone, care what a person chooses to be his/her lifestyle? They are not sticking their dicks in your asshole so just let them live that way.
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    http://www.hetracil.com/

    THATS THA SHIIT
    Nope!

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    Wtf je?!

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    Question ? Why does the government reward those who get married? <- with this knowledge it leads to a different argument all together

    Just a couple i have found
    IF A. children of married couples fare better in life
    IF B. marriage leads to a prosperous society

    These are not my views, just my observation that you guys have been arguing from the wrong points(Religion).

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    There's tons of misinformation on this subject that causes people to scream non-sensical things about their "rights" or whatever.

    Homosexuals have the exact same marital rights that heterosexuals have. Period. A homosexual man can marry a woman, but cannot marry another man. A heterosexual man can marry a woman, but cannot marry another man. Homosexuals can marry each other, as in a gay man can marry a gay woman.

    It seems rather strange to have to point these things out, but it's necessary to stop all the demented hawking from people claiming that it's taking away somebodie's rights. Nobody has a "right" to marry somebody they love. That doesn't exist. Both homosexuals and heterosexuals have the exact same rights at the moment.

    The problem is that heterosexuals have the option of marrying the people they are sexually attracted to, homosexuals do not have that option. And please note that "love" is in no way a requirement for marriage.

    The debate is whether or not we should change marriage so that it allows everyone who is otherwise eligible for marriage to marry other people who are otherwise eligible for marriage regardless of their gender.

    When you start talking about "rights" you get into areas such as inter-family marriage where if a boy wants to marry his 90 year old grandma, according to all common pro same-sex marriage arguments, why should they not be allowed to?

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    They don't have the right to marry a person of the same sex, legally.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Camo Developer View Post
    They don't have the right to marry a person of the same sex, legally.
    He tried to point out that neither do you. However I think it's quite irrelevant because you wouldn't like to.
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    Quote Originally Posted by weequ View Post
    He tried to point out that neither do you. However I think it's quite irrelevant because you wouldn't like to.
    My response was to his saying, "it's not about rights". When, it has everything to do with rights.
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    Quote Originally Posted by weequ View Post
    He tried to point out that neither do you. However I think it's quite irrelevant because you wouldn't like to.
    That's another point i was trying to make. Nobody has the right to marry anyone "they want to".

    There are many situations in which two people love each other, want to get married, but legally can't. Besides same-sex marriage.

    Quote Originally Posted by Camo Developer View Post
    My response was to his saying, "it's not about rights". When, it has everything to do with rights.
    Well it's about rights only in the sense that homosexuals want new rights to be created that never existed before just so they have the ability to marry people of the same gender.

    Same-sex couples should defiantly have a way to enjoy the exact same rights as a married couple, i just don't think achieving it by modifying traditional male-female marriage is the way to do it.

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    So... man can only marry women and women can only marry man? How is that not discrimination?
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    Quote Originally Posted by matviy View Post
    That's another point i was trying to make. Nobody has the right to marry anyone "they want to".

    There are many situations in which two people love each other, want to get married, but legally can't. Besides same-sex marriage.
    I know you're referencing your "boy wants to marry his grandma" here, and other things as well. However, that's a matter of what's morally right.


    Quote Originally Posted by matviy View Post
    Same-sex couples should defiantly have a way to enjoy the exact same rights as a married couple, i just don't think achieving it by modifying traditional male-female marriage is the way to do it.
    Why? What do you suppose? A "New Marriage" for the homosexuals?
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    Grief seeds, your statement that there is evidence that people are born gay or straight is incorrect.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grief Seeds View Post
    Wow, it's sad to see how people are so brainwashed.
    It has been proven many times and there is many evidence supporting the fact that people are born gay or straight.
    You may not have read it, but it was just a few posts before your own:

    Quote Originally Posted by Sriro View Post
    I would just like to point out that in cases with identical twins, there are numerous reports of one of them being gay and the other not. Seeing as their genetic makeup is essentially identical, it is beyond extremely unlikely that homosexuality is chosen by genetics. Other factors and influences like their relationship with their father (which is usually poor), abuse, or circumstances with siblings have a greater impact in someones likelihood to choose homosexuality.

    Extensive research has been done, for example, on behalf of alcoholics to understand the nature of their addictions. While some factors seem to contribute, there are many people who are "predisposed" to, for example, alcoholism, who are not alcoholics. Likewise, criminals -- varying from rapists to thieves -- have occasionally claimed they were born that way. That is hardly an excuse for their behavior.

    While I'm not equating Homosexuality to rapists, my point is this: Just as people who acknowledge they are angry, have an inferiority complex, or are addicted to something and are able to consciously avoid giving into it, homosexuals, rapists, and alcoholics are more than capable of choosing not to give into their urges.

    In a small handful of cases they've been able to lead heterosexual lives afterwards. In other cases, they've simply resolved to enjoy life without a relationship.

    The real reason why homosexuals engage in homosexuality is because they want to. The point of this post is not to say that is right or wrong, but it is to underline that homosexuals who claim to not have wanted to engage in it or to not have had a choice are either lying or displaying a serious lack of willpower.

    Edit: By the way, I just realized I bumped an extremely old Thread. Sorry about that, I was actually linked here from a similar thread, and ended up being interested in this one.

    Some people hypothesize homosexuality is caused by hormone differences in the womb of the mother. Claiming in any way that this is evidence that people are born homosexual is intellectually dishonest, fallacious, or at the least, uninformed.

    Since at birth it is impossible to tell which children will be homosexual or not, the scientists that conduct these experiments have to use adults. Concluding that hormone differences in adults existed from the moment they were born is wishful thinking. The reality is that the amount of hormones our bodies produce is in constant fluctuation.

    Saying that is solid evidence for homosexuality not being a choice would be like saying that people who go through traumatic experiences were born depressed. Simply because their neurotransmitter or hormone levels are elevated when they are tested does not mean they were always elevated.

    As a rule of thumb, we don't adapt to our bodies, our bodies and brains adapt to us. We exercise, our body becomes strong. We play violent video-games, we become more aggressive (multiple studies show this). Countries that allow pornography have higher rape rates than those that do not. Listening to sad music can physically make us sadder. Therefore, it's far more logical to conclude that a person becomes homosexual situationally and by personal choice, than to assume that their hormone levels did not change at all over the course of a few decades.

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    Genetics play a part in whether someone is gay or not, and straight people can chose to turn gay. But for the person who is truly gay, they were born that way.

    You are correct that living situations can play a part, but it's genetics too.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Camo Developer View Post
    I'm tired of these people saying that homosexuality is a sin, and you'll go to hell, and that they chose to be that way. Answer me this: Why would anyone CHOOSE to be hated on, persecuted, out casted, on the other side of extreme bullying, etc? If they had a choice, I'm positive none of them would choose to go through that. The ones that would choose that, are 100x better than I could ever be.

    /my two cents.
    Why would a person CHOOSE to commit adultery? This usually results in them being hated on, persecuted, out casted, and at times on the other side of extreme bullying. In previous times these people were killed as were homosexuals. So tell me, is adultery a choice?

    Some people prefer sex than their own health. That doesn't make it any more or less of a choice.

    Quote Originally Posted by Camo Developer View Post
    Genetics play a part in whether someone is gay or not, and straight people can chose to turn gay. But for the person who is truly gay, they were born that way.

    You are correct that living situations can play a part, but it's genetics too.
    Again, identical twins are called identical twins for a reason. Even a single case where they do not have the same sexual orientation would almost completely cripple the concept of homosexuality being genetic. But it hasn't only happened once -- it has happened again, and again, and again. About half of identical twins who are homosexual have a straight identical sibling. So it has everything to do with circumstance and nothing to do with genetics.
    Last edited by Sriro; 12-06-2011 at 08:53 PM.

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    Would the anti-gay-marriage people apply the same arguments in the 1960s when inter-racial marriages were being legalised?
    After all, black people do have marriage rights. A black man marry a black woman. A white man can marry a white woman.

    Now we'd call these views racist. How is their form any different to the anti-gay-marriage arguments we heard in this thread?


    Let me quash the red herring of 'rights' straight away.
    Rights cannot be natural, like laws of nature, because nature enforces its laws absolutely, whereas rights are frequently broken. Rights cannot be inalienable, because governments or powerful organisations frequently revoke rights. They cannot be God-given, because God originally blessed the rights of monarchy, genocide, polygamy, parental killing of disrespectful children, and other rights no one seriously defends today. Rights cannot be self-evident, because philosophers have been vigorously arguing over them for thousands of years.

    It's pretty clear that rights are social constructs, defended by force and open to change and improvement. That's what we're doing now, debating the rights and trying to improve them.



    For all the people who think homosexuality is the result of a person choice. I challenge you to be sexually intimate with a man a enjoy it by your own choice.
    I guarantee you can't, and this is a strong argument for.


    Since I first posted this thread 3 years ago, four US states have legalised same-sex marriage. Connecticut, Iowa, Vermon, New Hampshire and New York.
    Eleven states have created legal unions for same-sex couples that offer varying subsets of the rights and responsibilities of marriage under the laws of those jurisdictions: California, Colorado, Hawaii, Maine, Maryland, Nevada, Oregon, Rhode Island, Wisconsin, Illinois and Washington.
    Progress indeed.

    Soon LGBT equality will be just like racial and gender equality: universally accepted and non-negotiable. Homophobics, how does it feel to be in the dustbin of history?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sriro View Post
    Why would a person CHOOSE to commit adultery? This usually results in them being hated on, persecuted, out casted, and at times on the other side of extreme bullying. In previous times these people were killed as were homosexuals. So tell me, is adultery a choice?

    Some people prefer sex than their own health. That doesn't make it any more or less of a choice.



    Again, identical twins are called identical twins for a reason. Even a single case where they do not have the same sexual orientation would almost completely cripple the concept of homosexuality being genetic. But it hasn't only happened once -- it has happened again, and again, and again. About half of identical twins who are homosexual have a straight identical sibling. So it has everything to do with circumstance and nothing to do with genetics.
    Umm, adultery is a choice. The person who commits adultery decided to do it, ergo, a choice. You don't just walk into a room and oops, you committed adultery.

    Yes it is. They prefer sex over their health, which means they choose it. They choose to put sex above health. Homosexuals don't prefer the same sex, thats their livelihood. Again, not a choice.


    And yes Yakman, progress is great progress!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yakman View Post
    For all the people who think homosexuality is the result of a person choice. I challenge you to be sexually intimate with a man a enjoy it by your own choice.
    I guarantee you can't, and this is a strong argument for.
    How much would you bet?

    I'm straight, and I seriously would never be together with a dude, but to win a bet whenever homosexualy is because of genes or choice...

    E: Seriosuly. I think genes makes up appeal more to some kind of visual input more than other, but in the end it's the choice that makes you what you are.

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    Impossible to bet that because enjoyment is a personal thing. You could easily lie, say you enjoyed it and win the bet.

    All I ask is you imagine yourself with a man. Now try to choose to enjoy that.
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    I believe it's a choice, depending on a series of events that have occured to the Man/Girl being Gay.

    Girl have probs with Boyfriends , F them... i'm turning Bisexual or Lesbian. (a Co worker told me her story)... It was a choice.

    Guy playing with Dolls instead of GI-Joe.... he is more comfortable with the Doll due to it being more peaceful? Happy? Jolly? who knows.

    Everything is based on choice mate.
    Opinion of mine, please dont take this post offensively.


    And you asked zyt3x to be with a man... of course he will say Heck no... because he did not experience the events that a homo man has.

    Sounds like logic ya?

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    Blaming it on genetics is frivolous and an excuse that you have no doubt tattooed on your brain. If you look back thousands of years being gay was almost unheard of/punishable by death. In many countries, like mine, we thought people were going insane! Being gay is a product of a bad upbringing. Maybe you had a bad father, or maybe you didn't have one even? Maybe you were rejected from the Bro club and went to go play with your sister's friends - who knows. It's also the environment. In the U.S. it's the fault of the people who are trying to be "politically correct", "respecting other's lifestyles", ect. In Poland people were so outraged by this blasphemy they basically passed laws jailing (for life) people who taught about homosexuals and capital punishment (HUGE for a Catholic state)/banishment for those who practiced it, ect (Guess how many gay's we have). If people hadn't invented the Boogyman, kids wouldn't be scared of him.
    The most ironic thing is that you're -whining- about what you don't have - does greed have no end? If a manufacturer fires a gay person, he is guaranteed a lawsuit - and most likely to lose it. If you call someone homo in my school, you get ISS/some other bull for bullying/prejudice or some kind of other B.S. You have more rights then the normal person has. You get so-called "brownie points" in colleges, jobs (manufacturers get government benefits), everyday life, in basically EVERY SINGLE aspect of life. Yet here you are whining about some kind of miniscule, insignificant loopholes in the law.
    Every single gay person I've seen talks in a lissssssp, wears tight pants, jackets without shirts underneath, hangs out with girls, talks about their makeup, goes to the tanning bed (for God's sake!), and talks about how it's genetics! EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM talks about genetics! As if they were world-class scientists! Let me give you a little science! Homosexuals as a group are one of the biggest, if not the biggest, transmitters of STV's/AIDS. It's unnatural, gross, and wrong in every single way! I feel sick even thinking of it. What is this world coming to?
    Thank God for the last barriers in this world's Sanity!

    Agree very much with ggzz <- quite funny btw.

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