Logical Proof of God's Existence

[Raskolnikov]

Do you even come close to thinking before you express your ideas? Even thought I disagree with tara's ideas I can respect him (her? sorry don't know) because at least the post contributes to the topic.
All you did was waste my time trying to decipher the point you were trying to get across. Epic Phail on that one by the way. Would it be possible for people to give posts even a couple of seconds of thought before posting.

@tara I agree that some people have their own religious experiences that aren't 'just to be part of the cool club', but many, I would guess around 75%, of people that are part of organized religion just follow along because they are told to. They see somebody hanging on every word that is said by a leader and they decide that if someone else does it then it is okay for them to do it also.

Correct on the response to Tarajunky. Everyone does it because their family did it, or they see other people doing it. The reason that religion was created, I believe, was to show people answers to a question, not neccessairily (can't spell right now ahckk) to be taken seriously. I think that if Jesus existed, the stories of biblical proportions were meant to portray a fable in a way we cannot understand. Christianity could be an Aesop taken much too seriously.

Science is just now delving into what they think the mind can do. Strange occurrences, etc. Some stories that I'd like to point out: The Stars My Destination, where there is a method of travel called "Jaunting"; the books from the Ringworld series, where one of the characters is extremely lucky (where the book assumes that luck is the ability of the mind to influence events); and a short story that I've forgotten the name of. In this story, a space-faring race far in the future has catalogued every known species in existence. A "librarian" of the catalogue comes upon the entry for Homo sapiens, reads the file, and notices a big-bright-red sticker reading "dangerous" or the like. Apparently, through testing, it was discerned that things happened "differently" for humans, as they were put through a series of tests in which the only chance to survive was to do the impossible, which the subjects did. Anyhow, the librarian clones himself a human for observation, human takes over the ship w/ equipment to make more clones, etc, end. (The clones are immortal, though)

I think he is saying here that humans are a species that only a being of biblical proportions (sorry about using this phrase way too much, I was watching the History Channel :S) could create us. However, why wouldn't we think the same thing about a spider, or even the smallest single cell organisms? We are not perfect. We just seem perfect. We have many defects such as emotions, which for example ants or other insects don't have. We are dynamic, yes, but doesn't mean a creator had to make that.

Just taking a guess, but I think he's trying to say that the human brain is so complex that it couldn't have been created through evolution and/or only God would be able to create/understand it.

Exactly what I think. Think about my points everyone. Merry christmas (happy holidays) btw.

Cut em2 it

Edit:

I think that the education system today should teach less dependence. Some day society will fall and all the people who are so attached to it will fall as well.

You and I will be long dead before this happens. The precise reason that society won't fall is because too many are attached to it, until this number gets exponentially smaller than the uncivilized people, which we know won't happen in our lifetime, that it is possible for anarchy, or tribalism to make a comeback. This age would be a huge dropout in technology, people are too busy putting food in their bellies, there is no time for advancement, (soz for going off topic, but I had to to prove my point).

[Aser]

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You and I will be long dead before this happens. The precise reason that society won't fall is because too many are attached to it, until this number gets exponentially smaller than the uncivilized people, which we know won't happen in our lifetime, that it is possible for anarchy, or tribalism to make a comeback. This age would be a huge dropout in technology, people are too busy putting food in their bellies, there is no time for advancement, (soz for going off topic, but I had to to prove my point).

Just because people are attached to something doesn't mean that it will survive. Lots of things that people have been attached to have fallen: any of the empires throughout time, the prohibition (okay only bitches were attached to that), slavery, $0.50 a gallon gasoline, legalized drugs... I'm not saying that society will fall in my lifetime or soon, but it will fall eventually. All good things must come to an end (the good is how most people consider it, personally I think society sucks). When it falls I seriously doubt that it will be because people don't like it anymore. It will be because the current system that runs society is a failure and will bring about its own collapse.
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There is no logical way to prove the existence of an omnipotent being. If there was then everyone would be following the same God/gods/thing. Because there is so much dispute over a higher power I believe that there either is no higher power OR people are way off on what they conceive is a higher power/God. Maybe we need to rethink what it really is that everybody is arguing about. My theory is that people are shooting in the exact opposite direction when thinking of the 'all powerful'.

I think (on risk of getting flammed...*cringe*...) instead of asking a God to help us out in life so much, we need to become our own Gods. What really can we not accomplish if we work together.

Recall the story of the Tower of Babel. God, in his infinite wisdom, screwed us all over because we were becoming to great. Maybe, if there is a God, he saw that humans had just a little too much potential and he wanted to remain a few steps ahead of the game.

I just ask that you think about it for a minimum of two seconds before making a case against it. I realize that a few...a lot of people won't agree with this but I just ask that you think about it before discarding it as a worthless idea.

[PlAnT]

...Scientific evidence says otherwise



that isn't proof, thats like saying;

"Im tired, so i MUST be tired"

@ contradictions :- the bible defies the laws of physics, when Moses split the sea
that is a contradiction to reality, in a way

also, the legends of god and religion are, in the least, outdated.
they were written in times when people still thought the world was flat, which has since been proved wrong too


I myself still ponder on existence of religion, i LIKE to think that a god exists, but its so illogical. it seems that santa and god are in the same boat

merry xmas

Please, do your research. Science in no way contradicts the trachings of Jesus Christ himself. And to the Bible comment. The Bible is not meant to be taken only as literally, but as figuratively as well, as we ask ourselves: How does this relate to our lives? Moses "defying physics" is only trying to convey a point, and is illustrating how God has revealed himself throughout salvation history.

[PlAnT]

Faith gives people hope. Without Faith people would be nowhere?

And as for God? Fuck dat, its not logical that theres a guy running about on clouds to be honest.

You know nothing about Him. You have just bought into what you have seen and know absoultely nothing about Him. How dare you.

[bullzeye95]

You know nothing about Him. You have just bought into what you have seen and know absoultely nothing about Him. How dare you.

You no absolutely nothing. You have just bought into what the church has told you, and no absolutely nothing. How dare you.

[TViYH]

You know nothing about Him. You have just bought into what you have seen and know absoultely nothing about Him. How dare you.

So, what do you know about Him then?

[The Claw]

I dont mean this as disrespect, but I am just curious because I have a different view point, so I have to ask this to the Atheists in this thread.

What do you think your purpose in life is? What allows you to keep going in this world if you believe that once you are dead, you are dead, and that in a few hundred years no one would even know you existed.

Once again, I am not trying to be rude, I am just curious.

No purpose, nothing keeps me going apart from myself, and I dont really care if no one remembers me in 300 years

[Widget]

Here's a treat mainly for the people who claim they can 'feel' god's presence, although I think everyone should see it (two parts, just barely over the 11 minute limit)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oKnO6MQCw9Y
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dzn9rX7rauA

Keep in mind he's a definite Atheist.

[tarajunky]

Widget, I already kind of addressed that in my previous posts. There is a physiological response associated with "spiritual experience" that can be reproduced through non-religious means. Apparently this guy has figured out a way to tap into that (unless he's lying and it's all a setup, which is the case for many people like this).

But just because it can be reproduced doesn't mean that when someone has a spiritual experience through praying or reading the scriptures that it's meaningless. In fact, it begs the question of why we have such a physiological response in the first place. Someone with faith would probably say God made us that way so that he could touch us and help us to understand His will. Someone without faith might say it's a way to encourage selflessness, unity, and camaraderie among groups. Either way, people who ignore or reject it are missing out on something beneficial.

By the way, there's nothing mutually exclusive about faith and science. Most scientists believe in God or a higher power that controls the universe.

[Yakman]

By the way, there's nothing mutually exclusive about faith and science. Most scientists believe in God or a higher power that controls the universe.

source please

[Killerdou]

Proof god exists:
God as a concept is the biggest thing there.(has the most properties)
A god which exists is bigger then a god that doesn't exist(The existing one has the most properties)
God must exist.

Though to proof it's YOUR god is kinda harder :P But yeah, there has to be something which 'contains' everyone else. Or you could agree with Kant that existance is not a property.... otherwise it's logically completely correct...

[tarajunky]

source please

http://www.livescience.com/strangene...tists_god.html

"About two-thirds of scientists believe in God, according to a new survey that uncovered stark differences based on the type of research they do.

The study, along with another one released in June, would appear to debunk the oft-held notion that science is incompatible with religion."
...

"In the new study, Rice University sociologist Elaine Howard Ecklund surveyed 1,646 faculty members at elite research universities, asking 36 questions about belief and spiritual practices."

[Aser]

In fact, it begs the question of why we have such a physiological response in the first place.

Easy, like I said before, the need to fit in.

[sirlaughsalot]

Wow, this is gonna be a long one...

N3ss posted a thing a while ago that I think HAS to be adressed. In the Bible they DO provide an explanation for the animals. The story of the creation is split into a "week" some people take this literally, others believe this is symbolism (and often could "provide space" for evolution). The First day God was like "huh, im kinda lonely, I have these angels with me in heaven but they kinda do what i tell them and i cant really have an intelligent arguement with them" (I dont know im just trying to be amusing) so he created the darkness and light on the first day. Second day, he creates water, and seperates the two "waters" (Sea and sky). Third day, He creates the land. Fourth day he creates "lights" in "heaven" (aka stars in the sky). Day five, He creates Sea and Sky animals. Day six, land animals, and Humans.

There is also and explination as to why there are "bad" people and not everything is "perfect" we dont have "peace" ect. (all this is in genesis btw)

God was having fun with adam and eve, He told them they can eat anything in the garden of eden except for the dang'ol tree in the middle. Lucifer (Satan, the Devil, Be'elzibub, you get my point) who along with some other "fallen angels" revolted (in a way) with God and wanted to be more powerful than him, ect. So God banished them and made them their own little home, no matter how hell-ish (W00T PUN!). So Satan is like "God is having too much fun, im gonna ruin his fun" so then he became a "snake" and said to eve, "looky here at this tree, look the fruit isnt poisonous or anything, and it tastes quite good" and eve says "well God doesnt want me to eat it" and Satan says "well the real reason he doesnt want you to eat it is cuz it will make you uber smartz, and you will see right from wrong and stuffs and be as great as God." So Eve was like "Dang this sounds pretty good, gimme that magical fruit!" So she ate it and was like "dang this is good" and her eyes "opened" and Adam comes around the corner and is like "why you eatin' dat fruit babe?" and eve says "its really good try it /repeat what Satan said".

Personally I think the "where did God come from?" arguement can really be argued because with the "matter outta nowhere" its the same flaw. There is one difference, God can do whatever he wants, matter cannot. At the same time that is only true if you believe in God.

The purpose of my life is to glorify God and live my life in a Godly way so people may want to emulate me, and thereby be led to God. (Just in case ya'll were wonderin)

Also there arent any new "Versions" the different "versions" are only different translations.

Whatever other questions yall have, go ahead.

[Aser]

God was having fun with adam and eve, He told them they can eat anything in the garden of eden except for the dang'ol tree in the middle. Lucifer (Satan, the Devil, Be'elzibub, you get my point) who along with some other "fallen angels" revolted (in a way) with God and wanted to be more powerful than him, ect. So God banished them and made them their own little home, no matter how hell-ish (W00T PUN!). So Satan is like "God is having too much fun, im gonna ruin his fun" so then he became a "snake" and said to eve, "looky here at this tree, look the fruit isnt poisonous or anything, and it tastes quite good" and eve says "well God doesnt want me to eat it" and Satan says "well the real reason he doesnt want you to eat it is cuz it will make you uber smartz, and you will see right from wrong and stuffs and be as great as God." So Eve was like "Dang this sounds pretty good, gimme that magical fruit!" So she ate it and was like "dang this is good" and her eyes "opened" and Adam comes around the corner and is like "why you eatin' dat fruit babe?" and eve says "its really good try it /repeat what Satan said".

So basically you are saying that God doesn't want us to have what is good in life?

[TViYH]

I think Darwinism is one of the most accurate theories, personally.

Of course it has some flaws, but I don't think some magical being could all of a sudden pop and create a universe.

[Aser]

Of course it has some flaws, but I don't think some magical being could all of a sudden pop and create a universe.

Key words there are you [H]don't think[/H]. That is the problem with this thread. No one actually knows for sure. If there was logical proof then everybody would already know and we would all follow the religion that had logical proof that it was correct.

[Yakman]

Key words there are you [H]don't think[/H]. That is the problem with this thread. No one actually knows for sure. If there was logical proof then everybody would already know and we would all follow the religion that had logical proof that it was correct.

nah, cause there'd be plenty of people who'd say things like "its called faith for a REASON!"

[Pyro]

I think Darwinism is one of the most accurate theories, personally.

Of course it has some flaws, but I don't think some magical being could all of a sudden pop and create a universe.

I watched this documentary the other debunking darwins theory. Darwin wrote himself that "should this and this and this occur, then my theory is wrong".

It was the tail in the flaggelem. I dont want to get into detail look it up if you must. But both sides had valid arguments.

Probability should NOT come into facts of god or anything like that. If i had a pack of cards. And 4 players sitting with me. And i shuffled those cards. Handed them out. And then we wrote down the order they came out as and to which player. Then gathered in the cards again and tried again, we would not get the same result.

Infact you could play cards for the rest of your life and never have the same hand dealt to all the players. It is almost impossible. And yet those cards were dealt in the first place.

Ive watched the movie religulous and can say all he does is troll through religions. He has one fact, and he clings to that fact and then it cuts to the next religion. It isnt questions at all, he knows one thing that cant be proven and then just holds to that fact.

Ive also seen zeitegist and that is complete BS. He lies straight to your face. There is a part where he says that in a similar story to noahs ark. There was even the same dove as in noahs ark. Which is COMPELTELY not true. There is absolutely zero mention of a dove.

[Santa_Clause]

So basically you are saying that God doesn't want us to have what is good in life?

What? Did you bother reading anything he said? Satan said those things so that he could convince Eve to eat from the tree. I doubt God would give humans the opportunity to be like him, else there'd be no 'God'...

[Aser]

What? Did you bother reading anything he said? Satan said those things so that he could convince Eve to eat from the tree. I doubt God would give humans the opportunity to be like him, else there'd be no 'God'...

I did read what he said/wrote. God didn't want Adam or Eve to eat the fruit. He said that was because he was playing a game/having fun with them. When Eve ate the fruit she said it was good. So God was keeping them away from something that they enjoyed.

Also if God is so good, how did Satan convince Eve so easily? She supposedly had come in direct contact with God. Shouldn't she have noticed his almighty power and served him. She obviously didn't think that highly of him if she just ate a fruit because she was told it was good.

[Santa_Clause]

I did read what he said/wrote. God didn't want Adam or Eve to eat the fruit. He said that was because he was playing a game/having fun with them. When Eve ate the fruit she said it was good. So God was keeping them away from something that they enjoyed.

Also if God is so good, how did Satan convince Eve so easily? She supposedly had come in direct contact with God. Shouldn't she have noticed his almighty power and served him. She obviously didn't think that highly of him if she just ate a fruit because she was told it was good.

All things have to have a consequence. If God didn't disallow Adam and Eve from eating from the tree, then they would, pretty much, have no rules to abide by. God isn't some human with random mood swings that decides to play games with people's minds.

When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom, she took some and ate it. She also gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it. 7 Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they realized they were naked; so they sewed fig leaves together and made coverings for themselves.

It says nowhere that the fruit tasted good. But then again, it isn't really hard to avoid eating from a tree that has bad-tasting fruit. It's called temptation because Adam and Eve had to refrain from eating something that would benefit them, whether because of taste or power.

As for your second point about God being good...are you blaming God because a human decided to eat from the tree?

[sirlaughsalot]

Also if God is so good, how did Satan convince Eve so easily? She supposedly had come in direct contact with God. Shouldn't she have noticed his almighty power and served him. She obviously didn't think that highly of him if she just ate a fruit because she was told it was good.

Satan convinced her because she was naive, she did not know of the devil (not that i know of) and maybe she did not eat the fruit as a sign of selfishness, (she did share it with Adam) but she simply wanted to emulate her creator...

[koo29]

God and Satan both exist. I have no doubt about that, its personal thing that is pretty hard to explain.

[bullzeye95]

God and Satan both exist. I have no doubt about that, its personal thing that is pretty hard to explain.

If you had grown up in classical Greece, you'd be saying the same thing about Zeus and Apollo. If you had grown up in India, you'd be saying the same thing about Hinduism. If you had grown up in Tom Cruise's house, you'd be saying the same thing about Xenu.