Page 7 of 9 FirstFirst ... 56789 LastLast
Results 151 to 175 of 215

Thread: Logical proof god DOESNT exist

  1. #151
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    638
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Quoted
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by corn77 View Post
    Hello Aser,

    I ask you this, if God is not the center of your reason to live as you stated. Then what is? Is it to enjoy life?

    I hope to help you understand my point of view.
    My reasons to live are: sex, drugs and rock 'n roll, in that order...

    Beyond that, I live in the hope that I can create/begin the path to a future for man/woman kind where he/she transcend arguments and conflict and live in tranquility.

    Many people believe that I am a bad person because I believe in taking full pleasure in life. You want something why not have it (with the limit of not hurting others)? Basically you could say that I am addicted to life. My definition of life being the here-and-now.

    You may think that you will receive 10x better pleasures and reward in that afterlife, but I don't. I have this one chance to experience this lifetime before I move on to who knows what. I want to make the best of it while I am here.

    ...

    I can understand you views, and I respect them. I don't care what anyone believes as long as those beliefs don't cause others harm.



    To the neutron thing - isn't the 'glue' of the universe something like strong and weak nuclear force? That's what I remember from science, but we have 25 year old text books here in Idaho, so that could be way out dated.

  2. #152
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    4,163
    Mentioned
    9 Post(s)
    Quoted
    19 Post(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by corn77 View Post
    Hello Claw,

    Its good to see you again.

    I am trying to understand what you said here. Could you show me how? I feel that the statement I said about misunderstanding does not match your understanding of that statement, and If need be I can explain about that later.

    I have heard about string theory and quarks and such. I do not mean to discredit them. The statement here doesn't seem to answer my question. I asked about the ability of neutrons to "stick" protons to each other. We all understand , Are you stating that Quartz is what causes the bonding of Neutrons and Protons? It is amazing about the strings, quarks, baryons, mesons, and gluons and I do not doubt that these things exist, honestly I do not care. I am not a scientist and I do not want to sound like one. I am a simple college student.

    corn
    What I meant was you say that alot of arguements are brought on by misunderstandings, which is true, but then you argue a point which is inherently flawed due to your own misunderstandings of the current scientific models (through no fault of your own lol)

    The funny thing is I went on to misunderstand your question, I thought you were asking about what makes up the protons or neutrons, instead of saying that science doesnt know how protons stick together. Thats even easier though, its the strong nuclear force. Either way the arguement was flawed

  3. #153
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Tennessee
    Posts
    119
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Quoted
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by The Claw View Post
    What I meant was you say that alot of arguements are brought on by misunderstandings, which is true, but then you argue a point which is inherently flawed due to your own misunderstandings of the current scientific models (through no fault of your own lol)

    The funny thing is I went on to misunderstand your question, I thought you were asking about what makes up the protons or neutrons, instead of saying that science doesnt know how protons stick together. Thats even easier though, its the strong nuclear force. Either way the arguement was flawed
    It was not the best argument and it was flawed. I can be open and admit this. I did not look it up, I simply used my own common chemistry knowledge. Of course I am flawed and limited to knowledge, just like all of you. But, I do think that my argument can be more viable if and only if I stated it more clearly and that it was looked at a different point of view, which I didnt and thus I apologize for its unclarity.

    At the moment I will not bring up any other "argument" just because I do not feel like it(lol) and it is always good for me to point out a wrong in my own life. I simply felt an inclination to admit my flaw and failure to you all. That is all, I believe. :-)



    corn
    -----------
    "If we discover a desire within us that nothing in this world can satisfy, also we should begin to wonder if perhaps we were created for another world."

    C. S. Lewis (1898 - 1963), Mere Christianity

  4. #154
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    1,404
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Quoted
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by corn77 View Post
    It was not the best argument and it was flawed. I can be open and admit this. I did not look it up, I simply used my own common chemistry knowledge. Of course I am flawed and limited to knowledge, just like all of you. But, I do think that my argument can be more viable if and only if I stated it more clearly and that it was looked at a different point of view, which I didnt and thus I apologize for its unclarity.

    At the moment I will not bring up any other "argument" just because I do not feel like it(lol) and it is always good for me to point out a wrong in my own life. I simply felt an inclination to admit my flaw and failure to you all. That is all, I believe. :-)



    corn
    Don't be sorry. A Christian admitting a flaw in his argument. That's revolution in the Science vs. Church discussion!

  5. #155
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    28
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Quoted
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    Let me point one thing out here: If you ask a scientist where all the material that made up the singularity of the big bang came from, they would tell you "The laws of physics break down at the beginning of time" or "There was no time before the Big Bang" which sounds a lot like
    Quote Originally Posted by The Claw View Post
    'beyond our capacity to understand'
    and
    Quote Originally Posted by The Claw View Post
    'powers are too great'
    to me.

  6. #156
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    London
    Posts
    2,021
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Quoted
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    rabcarl, you've confused not understanding with not knowing.


    see this thing

    if you ask a mathematican "what happens at x= 0", they will say something like "it breaks down there"

    does that mean you dont understand a hyperbola? no, it just means that has those properties.



    it is accepted now that you cant know the position and velocity of an electron at the same time, regardless of how good your measuring equipment is.

    does that mean we dont understand electrons? no, it just means that electrons obey the Heisenberg uncertainty principle.




    even though science cannot yet answer some questions, that is no reason to turn to religion which has never answered anything of significance.
    Join the Official SRL IRC channel. Learn how to Here.

  7. #157
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    28
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Quoted
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    I disagree with you here. I think the whole point of religion is that it does answer the unanswerable questions we all face. The whole point of religion is to answer such questions as :What happens when we die? and How did we all get here? Being a Christian I know that religion can provide answers to these questions; you just might not agree with or believe the answers they give.

    And I think that my previous point is still valid. There's no way we can say 100% scientifically what happened billions of years ago. No one was there to see it happen, it's all open speculation with one theory as good as the next. Therefore, people must have faith in whatever answer they choose to explain the beginning of existence, whether that is an explanation related to science or belief in a Creator. My point before was that it's easy to scoff at people who say "We just don't understand some things about God." I know for a fact humankind will never fully prove what happened at the beginning of time, hell we can't even prove some things happened a year ago!

    And with regard to what you said before, I mean, those are all theories. No matter how good a theory is, it's not proof. Take a look at the Newtonian principals of gravity. Aside from a few tiny miscalculations, everything in the universe could be explained by these calculations for hundreds of years. But even as accepted a theory as that was proven to have deep flaws by Einstein. So no matter how much we try, there are still going to be things that we will never know or at least never be able to prove 100%, which is why I think religious views are as valid as scientific ones when it comes to answering speculative questions like this.

  8. #158
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    3,861
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Quoted
    1 Post(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by rabcarl View Post
    So no matter how much we try, there are still going to be things that we will never know or at least never be able to prove 100%, which is why I think religious views are as valid as scientific ones when it comes to answering speculative questions like this.
    The difference between religion and science is, religious people say "this is true because you can't prove me wrong," while scientists say "I think this is true, and this is why I believe it to be true."

  9. #159
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    London
    Posts
    2,021
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Quoted
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by rabcarl View Post
    I disagree with you here. I think the whole point of religion is that it does answer the unanswerable questions we all face. The whole point of religion is to answer such questions as :What happens when we die? and How did we all get here? Being a Christian I know that religion can provide answers to these questions; you just might not agree with or believe the answers they give.
    they dont give answers, they just assert and speculate.
    some scientific answers are as strange as any religious ones, but the difference is that scientific answers just work.

    it seems you christans dont care about whats true, you only care about being comforted.
    neuroscience suggests that you do not survive your own death, but christians and some other religious people dont like that at all, its too bleak. So they come up with some paradise where you go when you die.

    you seem to believe that god would make the entire universe and place his chosen race on a typical planet, around a typical star, in the outskirts of a typical galexy.

    you're like a child that believes the whole world revolves around them, and disappears when he closes his eyes. Grow up.



    Quote Originally Posted by rabcarl View Post
    And I think that my previous point is still valid. There's no way we can say 100% scientifically what happened billions of years ago.
    you're wrong there, i can present a counterexample

    we have built a time machine to actually see what happened then.
    its called the telescope.

    light from distant objects take many years to get to us, when we look at the most distant things, we're actually looking back in time.

    some light started its journey 13 billion years ago.

    so there

    Quote Originally Posted by rabcarl View Post
    No one was there to see it happen, it's all open speculation with one theory as good as the next.
    thats wrong because some theories have more to back them up then others.

    with your logic, the theory that the USA was founded by chickens would be on equal footing with the theory that it was founded by Benjamin Franklin and the rest of them.

    but the chicken theory has very little backup, especially since the signature at the bottom of that page says 'B. Franklin' or something.

    so that makes the rest of your point invalid.



    Quote Originally Posted by rabcarl View Post
    And with regard to what you said before, I mean, those are all theories. No matter how good a theory is, it's not proof.
    ask yourself if your theory works.
    in the same way that the heliocentric theory works better then the geocentric theory, scientific theorys work better then religious ones.



    Quote Originally Posted by rabcarl View Post
    Take a look at the Newtonian principals of gravity. Aside from a few tiny miscalculations, everything in the universe could be explained by these calculations for hundreds of years. But even as accepted a theory as that was proven to have deep flaws by Einstein.
    this is wrong, and it also has nothing to do with your follow up.
    just because there was one particalar scientific revolution does not show that all science will be overthrown as you're suggesting.

    and since we're on the subject,
    Newton's laws showed some cracks many years before Einstine, they failed to accuratly predict the orbit of mercury for example.
    also, Maxwell's electromagnetic equations contradicted Newton's equations of motion when applied to light. (i.e. Newton says you can catch and overtake light if you travel fast enough, Maxwell says you can never do this)





    Quote Originally Posted by rabcarl View Post
    I think religious views are as valid as scientific ones when it comes to answering speculative questions like this.
    well you're wrong,
    religious answers have flaws that scientific answers do not.

    the universe is expanding, religious answers cannot explain that because they suggest god made the universe X years ago and it has not changed since then.

    but the biggest flaw with religious answers is that they start with the answer and then try to make it fit the evidence.
    it should go the other way around.


    scientists saw the expanding universe and concluded that in the past it must have been smaller then today. The volume of the universe is increasing.

    so was there a point when it was as small as it gets? when the volume was zero?
    taking only the expanding universe figures, some simple maths shows that the universe had zero volume around 13.6 billion years ago.

    so you see that method? you start with evidence and observation
    1. the universe is expanding
    and then use it to come up with a theory that explains it
    2. the universe started from an event called the big bang


    this flowchart shows the differences quite nicely
    Join the Official SRL IRC channel. Learn how to Here.

  10. #160
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    4,163
    Mentioned
    9 Post(s)
    Quoted
    19 Post(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Yakman View Post
    they dont give answers, they just assert and speculate.
    some scientific answers are as strange as any religious ones, but the difference is that scientific answers just work.

    it seems you christans dont care about whats true, you only care about being comforted.
    neuroscience suggests that you do not survive your own death, but christians and some other religious people dont like that at all, its too bleak. So they come up with some paradise where you go when you die.

    you seem to believe that god would make the entire universe and place his chosen race on a typical planet, around a typical star, in the outskirts of a typical galexy.

    you're like a child that believes the whole world revolves around them, and disappears when he closes his eyes. Grow up.





    you're wrong there, i can present a counterexample

    we have built a time machine to actually see what happened then.
    its called the telescope.

    light from distant objects take many years to get to us, when we look at the most distant things, we're actually looking back in time.

    some light started its journey 13 billion years ago.

    so there



    thats wrong because some theories have more to back them up then others.

    with your logic, the theory that the USA was founded by chickens would be on equal footing with the theory that it was founded by Benjamin Franklin and the rest of them.

    but the chicken theory has very little backup, especially since the signature at the bottom of that page says 'B. Franklin' or something.

    so that makes the rest of your point invalid.





    ask yourself if your theory works.
    in the same way that the heliocentric theory works better then the geocentric theory, scientific theorys work better then religious ones.





    this is wrong, and it also has nothing to do with your follow up.
    just because there was one particalar scientific revolution does not show that all science will be overthrown as you're suggesting.

    and since we're on the subject,
    Newton's laws showed some cracks many years before Einstine, they failed to accuratly predict the orbit of mercury for example.
    also, Maxwell's electromagnetic equations contradicted Newton's equations of motion when applied to light. (i.e. Newton says you can catch and overtake light if you travel fast enough, Maxwell says you can never do this)







    well you're wrong,
    religious answers have flaws that scientific answers do not.

    the universe is expanding, religious answers cannot explain that because they suggest god made the universe X years ago and it has not changed since then.

    but the biggest flaw with religious answers is that they start with the answer and then try to make it fit the evidence.
    it should go the other way around.


    scientists saw the expanding universe and concluded that in the past it must have been smaller then today. The volume of the universe is increasing.

    so was there a point when it was as small as it gets? when the volume was zero?
    taking only the expanding universe figures, some simple maths shows that the universe had zero volume around 13.6 billion years ago.

    so you see that method? you start with evidence and observation
    1. the universe is expanding
    and then use it to come up with a theory that explains it
    2. the universe started from an event called the big bang


    this flowchart shows the differences quite nicely
    I was gonna reply to rabcarl myself, but then scrolled down and saw this post, so I'll just leave it at a +1

  11. #161
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Tennessee
    Posts
    119
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Quoted
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by King of Knives View Post
    Don't be sorry. A Christian admitting a flaw in his argument. That's revolution in the Science vs. Church discussion!
    Hello KOK,

    Possibly not a revolution, I am open to admit my flaw because I am human just like you. I do not want to be someone that seems to have all the answers because I dont, and of course you don't. Arguments vary from there effeciency with communicating its point, I felt my point was valid, but I started it without proper detail and examination and thus devalued the point totally. I do feel that I am responsible to make my points as clear as possible, and at that point I felt that it wasnt and thus I apologized to you all. I hope to continue this discussion in the future. :-)

    best regards,

    corn

    Quote Originally Posted by Aser View Post
    My reasons to live are: sex, drugs and rock 'n roll, in that order...

    Beyond that, I live in the hope that I can create/begin the path to a future for man/woman kind where he/she transcend arguments and conflict and live in tranquility.

    Many people believe that I am a bad person because I believe in taking full pleasure in life. You want something why not have it (with the limit of not hurting others)? Basically you could say that I am addicted to life. My definition of life being the here-and-now.

    You may think that you will receive 10x better pleasures and reward in that afterlife, but I don't. I have this one chance to experience this lifetime before I move on to who knows what. I want to make the best of it while I am here.

    ...

    I can understand you views, and I respect them. I don't care what anyone believes as long as those beliefs don't cause others harm.



    To the neutron thing - isn't the 'glue' of the universe something like strong and weak nuclear force? That's what I remember from science, but we have 25 year old text books here in Idaho, so that could be way out dated.
    Hello Aser,

    I appreciate your honesty with my question(s). And I hope that by these discussions we can just get to know each other more. Feel free to ask me questions as you feel led.

    Something I want to bring up is the defining questions to examine why we have a reason to live, why we have purpose. Let us consider a defined Judeo-Christian God that exists defined by the bible. If this Judeo Christian did exist as stated in the bible, then he did create the universe and everything in it ( I am not trying to prove God's exist at this point, just to define the example ). In the bible God reveals the reason he created everything, including man. An example of this can be found in the book of Isaiah, Isaiah 43:7.

    "...everyone who is called by my name,
    whom I created for my glory,
    whom I formed and made."

    The reason I point out this is to show you that if this God does exists, he created us for his glory and that the ultimate purpose for our life is to glorify God. When I say glorify, I wanted to define it for you if there was an miscommunication. glorify is to extol, praise, or worship. This can be seen as an entire life of this purpose. What I am trying to say is that this God who made everything for that reason and that this is not our purpose. What does that mean? Does that mean that God doesn't exist because it is not followed?

    I would say that this is not the case, God could allow such things to occur despite the reaction of people, we live in a fallen world according to the bible one that is in total rebellion to God. This would mean that we are living our lives despite the ultimate purpose God has commanded everyone to follow, and that every other purpose that exists is for one worthless and two finite. We are living in total rebellion to that standard God has placed. I want to show everyone that we are rebellious towards this God. In the character and attributes of God, it is shown that He is to be exaulted above all things and that he is worthy of all our obedience to this command, despite how we feel about it. He is also defined as the most pleasureable being and that through Him, all pleasures come forth. It is considered evil in the eyes of God to regard anything he had made more valuable than Himself, because of its ultimate comparison.

    Let me give a rough example, lets say I love to eat poop with whip cream(lol), Of course if I would to compare this as food would be considered ultimately disgusting and uneatable, but I simply love to eat poop, you know it has some whip cream on top that gives it such a delcious taste, it is all I have ever known. And I eat it all the time, if I was offered some 5 star Bar'B'Q Prime Ribs, this food would be considered much greater to eat this more tasty and nutrious type food. I tried it, and I was just blown away by it, I had never tasted anything more delicious in my life and it actually helped sustain my body! This can be somewhat compared to the pleasures and joy in knowing God through following the purpose he has given all men to live by and the unfilling and honestly worthlessness of worldly pleasures.

    Some thoughts for you all. Feel free to leave comments about it, questions, what ever. :-)

    Thanks for reading

    corn
    Last edited by corn77; 03-24-2009 at 03:12 AM.
    -----------
    "If we discover a desire within us that nothing in this world can satisfy, also we should begin to wonder if perhaps we were created for another world."

    C. S. Lewis (1898 - 1963), Mere Christianity

  12. #162
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Posts
    896
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Quoted
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    I think it is people's definition of God that is wrong. If you think about it, we have no control in our lives. Everything is destined to happen based on the chemical composition of our brains and of the universe. My brain is composed a certain way that made me think about this, which also made me decide to post it here. Now you will think about it and make a decision on whether you agree or not based on the composition of your brain.

    I believe the composition and laws of the universe are what govern our lives and "destiny." In a way, this could be called God...

  13. #163
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    London
    Posts
    2,021
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Quoted
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Macrosoft View Post
    I think it is people's definition of God that is wrong. If you think about it, we have no control in our lives. Everything is destined to happen based on the chemical composition of our brains and of the universe. My brain is composed a certain way that made me think about this, which also made me decide to post it here. Now you will think about it and make a decision on whether you agree or not based on the composition of your brain.

    I believe the composition and laws of the universe are what govern our lives and "destiny."

    this belief seems to be very similar to one which was popular, especially in france around the 18th century. Its called Determinism.

    it says similar to what you said, given accurate enough information, measurements and physical laws, everything in the universe is predictable, including human behaviour. Which implies there is no free will.

    however, with the discovery of the randomness of radioactive decay, quantum mechanics, the Heisenberg uncertainty principle, Schrödinger's cat and choas theory. It became clear that not everything can be predicted or determined like that.

    i guess you will believe in determinism if you want, but the evidence doesnt support it at all.
    (hey, that doesnt stop people believing in god)
    Join the Official SRL IRC channel. Learn how to Here.

  14. #164
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    79
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Quoted
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    Before I explain everything point by point, please keep an open mind. Usually in these kinds of posts no one has an open mind about what the other is saying. I had an open mind about what you posted, but found that everything was explainable.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Claw View Post
    However, I am interested in to why you get angry with God? If you believe in free will, then God can have NO influence on anything in the world to make sure it is completely free, if you think everyone has a destiny that God shapes, he then predestines people for hell, which would seem completely contrary to God’ nature. To say that a little of both are true is simply a foolish escape from answering the question of whether free will exists or not.
    God does give free will. You have free will to obey him and love him. He does not predestine people to hell because while he knows the future of your willingness to accept him, he leaves it up to you to decide fully. You can say "well why did he create me if he knew I was going to hell?" (I've asked the same question), but you got to remember. You're the one deciding to love him or not. Call it unjust, I don't understand it either. Personally it makes me angry, but I need to ponder over it more.

    But let’s look at God from a logical point of view.

    We must accept a few things first, which should be acceptable to anyone who has taken a high-school science course, or who knows anything about anything.

    First, we know everything in the universe that interacts is made of matter and energy. Anti-matter, dark-matter, etc, is all matter and energy nonetheless. This is a proven fact, and common sense for anyone. if you have proof otherwise, please let me know.

    Secondly, because of this, in order to interact with the Universe, God must be made of matter and energy. if he is, he is bound by the laws of physics and the rules and laws of this world, because he is made of that which must obey them. This makes miracles and such impossible, because God cannot do these miracles.

    if you say he lives outside of the world beyond all capacity, then you are also saying that he CAN NOT interact with the physical world. If so, miracles are still impossible, and praying, and other such acts asking him to intervene in life, are all fruitless, since it would not be within God;s power, which brings me to my next point.
    In some points you are right, but the most of it is wrong. Let me first say that God rarely (if ever) intervenes in our lives. This is Old Testament thinking. In the old testament god did intervene, and the world was much different. When people take the occurrences of the Old Testament and apply it to todays world (the New Testament) then people get confused and start to believe they can pray and ask for things. God doesn't change his mind or do anything because you pray. I myself (A devout creationist) feel like praying is almost futile. I'm not the best Christian and many Christians would scold me for saying such things (the Christian church can be quite harsh sometimes) but they haven't convinced me otherwise.

    Now, the points that you are wrong. It God made the universe then he would most certainly be able to alter it. This logic is flawed. It would be to say that a programmer can not add to or adjust his program just because he does not reside inside the computer. If God had to abide by the rules he created, then he wouldn't be God, would he? The image of God is confused with an old man with a white beard who is slightly balding who sits at a desk on a cloud by a golden gate determining whether people can go in or not. God HAS NO form. He is without mater, space, and outside the laws of time and physics. He is infinitely everywhere, even when no space existed. He resides outside time and all things, it is for you to comprehend this.

    Omnipotence, or being all-powerful, is a logically self-contradictory concept. It is impossible to do everything. We’ve all heard the common proposition “can God make a rock so heavy he can’t lift?” It is perfectly valid, and shows how it is impossible to be able to do everything. Therefore, God logically cannot be all-powerful.
    "When did you stop beating up your sister? Yes or No?"

    Does the question make any sense? No it doesn't, this question doesn't require a yes or no answer, just like your question doesn't require a yes or no answer. It must be explained. The answer to my question would probably be something like- "I never beat up my sister!". And the answer to your question is that this kind of question isn't fathomable. That is like saying, "Which is longer, a line or a ray?". It's like dividing by 0, your calculator would read "Syntax Error". Well if you ask this question it's like dividing by 0, while it makes sense to you, in reality it's not a valid question. Right now, I'm reading "Syntax Error".

    You could argue that God is not bound by logic, however that would be unfair of God. He must be bound by that which he creates, less he be an unjust God? Breaking his own rules doesn’t seem very fitting.
    This is your opinion and isn't for you to decide. When God created gravity he didn't say "aww crap, now I gotta fall!". Saying he must be bound by the laws of physics is completely illogical.

    There are all kinds of arguments like ‘God is beyond our capacity to understand” and ‘God’s powers are too great” and these are all find arguments, however, these same people who propose these arguments claim to know how God thinks and works and what exactly it takes to go to heaven. This is to know the mind of God. So the argument is flawed at it’s core, beginning the question “Did you talk to God to find this out?” The answer is a determinative, “no.”
    We cannot understand Gods ways completely because he didn't tell us. And if he did you cannot be sure we could comprehend it (maybe that's why he didn't tell us). I'm not claiming to know how God thinks, if anyone does spit in there face for me and call them a liar. Probably like you, I hate 95% of Christians (or maybe you hate all of them). I find Christians ignorant and close minded. But just because most Christians are stupid doesn't mean you can say Christianity is false. And God left us the key to Heaven in the Bible. It tells us exactly how to get to Heaven. And DONT listen to the STUPID Catholics, they are the worst people on the planet. They don't even read the Bible! They make up stuff all the time.

    The logical contradictions God on and on in a myriad ways. I have simply put forward very basic concepts. I feel like many of the arguments here are really taken on a logical level, when logic is the most powerful tool to prove that God cannot exist.
    Logic is also the most powerful tool to prove God MOST CERTAINLY exists. And I can explain it very easily. But to save you the time of reading it, I will give you a 3 minute video. It's very short and it explains everything fine.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vEXGK...e=channel_page

    If you want me to replay you must address all my points and the video. Too many times in religious debates is that the Atheist side doesn't address all the information and they just pull out new information. I call this being a coward and I assume they acknowledge my points are correct.

    Let the sparks fly.

  15. #165
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Posts
    896
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Quoted
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    hmm, well that whole theory came from scientific justification. If it can be proved incorrect by science then I guess ill have to think about it a little more

    are you sure radioactive decay etc. are completely random? or does it just appear to be so to human eyes. I believe string theory suggests that the whole universe is made up of vibrating strings of energy and that these vibrations of these strings may appear random, yet they are influenced by the 11 dimensions that they exist in. (I did a project on String Theory in 7th grade and interviewed a Harvard professor, yeah, im that cool )

    then again, i think string theory was created to unite the randomness of quantum mechanics and Einstein's theory of general relativity.

    i cant really remember lol...

  16. #166
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    38
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Quoted
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    I'd like to stick my own five cents into this discussion.
    They way I feel is, if there is a God out there,
    than for me its much better than coming from a big bang or what not.
    If I have a hierarchy over me,that's loving me as His creation,made in His own image,than I feel much better here,like I am part of something much bigger and better than the usual scientific cycle of being born,and living until you die . The thing is,God is good,and I really don't see why anyone would even bother trying to find logical proof that He isn't real. The Claw,you,and everyone else here is entitled to their own opinion,and that's how it should be. That's why I don't like religion,because then you have to believe how they tell you to believe.
    Remember,it's easy to notice a lousy Autoer, especially if you're a freakin lvl.3 with a shitty name,and default clothes. I'll report your ass asap. Don't be a leecher!

  17. #167
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    21
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Quoted
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    whoaaaoa this is so deep o.O but think about it. Nothing harms you, it doesnt change much if u believe in jesus, buddha, etc.

  18. #168
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    38
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Quoted
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by staznpride View Post
    whoaaaoa this is so deep o.O but think about it. Nothing harms you, it doesnt change much if u believe in jesus, buddha, etc.
    I agree, a lot of people live their lives normally without giving much thought about some higher authority. But the thing is, if there is a punishment such as hell,then its a few decades of good life,and then horrible eternity.
    Personally, spending an infinity in hell strikes some fear, but also makes you wonder if it's just something religions use to get a following.
    Remember,it's easy to notice a lousy Autoer, especially if you're a freakin lvl.3 with a shitty name,and default clothes. I'll report your ass asap. Don't be a leecher!

  19. #169
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    10,812
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Quoted
    16 Post(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by chewgun View Post
    I agree, a lot of people live their lives normally without giving much thought about some higher authority. But the thing is, if there is a punishment such as hell,then its a few decades of good life,and then horrible eternity.
    Personally, spending an infinity in hell strikes some fear, but also makes you wonder if it's just something religions use to get a following.
    Hell is non-existent.


    Send SMS messages using Simba
    Please do not send me a PM asking for help; I will not be able to help you! Post in a relevant thread or make your own! And always remember to search first!

  20. #170
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    38
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Quoted
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry View Post
    Hell is non-existent.
    So you think God is non-existent either?
    Remember,it's easy to notice a lousy Autoer, especially if you're a freakin lvl.3 with a shitty name,and default clothes. I'll report your ass asap. Don't be a leecher!

  21. #171
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    87
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Quoted
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    exactly. Religion=war
    Cavaliers are 2009 NBA champs =0
    #1 player in NBA
    #1 Record in East
    #1 Record overall
    (God dam prediction was wrong >=0)

  22. #172
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    74
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Quoted
    7 Post(s)

    Default

    Secondly, because of this, in order to interact with the Universe, God must be made of matter and energy. if he is, he is bound by the laws of physics and the rules and laws of this world, because he is made of that which must obey them. This makes miracles and such impossible, because God cannot do these miracles.
    There's your first flaw GOD in any sense is not bound by any limits he is the beginning and the end. He is not bound by laws or time. Even scientists now are just learning the "ideas" and "theory" behind quantum physics and mechanics, even some of Einstein's theories have been proved wrong through the use of logic. If you think logic can solve every situation or problem you'll only make a fool of yourself....

  23. #173
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Finland
    Posts
    2,851
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Quoted
    2 Post(s)

    Default

    I do not only believe in _g_od (note: lowercase) but i know _it_ (note: not he/she) exists.

    When we are talking about a god thats something like the bible says, we are talking about an ultimate supernatural being. Thus god, as we define it, could not be noticed, if god didnt want to.

    A scientist, who does not believe in powers beyond our imagination, is not a real scientist. A real scientist would think about these facts:

    - If we compare the age of the universe to a year, the time human has existed is maybe a few milliseconds. (just my own approximation, calculate if you want to)
    - We are small. We are so small, that the biggest 'structures' in space are so big to us that none of us can really even imagine it.
    - We haven't been further than a few thousand kilometers from our own planet. I would not say that's much of an achievement, considering the size of the universe.

    So basically, if you say that there is no god, you say that you, human, are the wisest being of the universe. I think it is ridiculous to even think that human mind would be so clever, that it could actually prove everything in this universe.

    Dunno if you got my point :P

  24. #174
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    In a galaxy far, far away...
    Posts
    584
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Quoted
    0 Post(s)

    Lightbulb

    ( Before I start, nice topic!! )

    Now, why is it so hard for one to believe in God? You'll believe basically something as simple as an advertisement on the T.V , would you not? How do you know its true? After all it is just another person describing it... Same with God, except there are tons of proof, proof stated in the Holy Books them selves and then later discovered that it were true recently. Why is it soo hard to believe a Man/Woman who has spent a lifetime studying these Holy Books, and support there statement with facts all around?


    Now lemme state some proof

    Quran' :
    Surah 78, Ayah 6-7 : "Have we not made the earth as a wide expanse, and the mountains as pegs?
    Surah 16, Ayah 15 : "And He has set up on the earth mountains standing firm, lest it should shake with you."

    Now expansion of these two line, It is stating that Mountains themselves hold the earth into position, for if it were not for those Mountains the Earth would be unstable/unsteady and would be devoured into the universe. This was proven as FACT just a few years ago by Geologists and Scientists. Google it if you don't believe me.

    Quran' :
    Surah 39, Ayah 5 : "He created the heavens and the earth in true (proportions). He makes the night overlap the day and the day overlap the night"
    Surah 79, Ayah 30 : "And the earth, moreover, hath He made egg shaped."

    Another PROVEN fact not too long ago, In these lines Allah says how he made the the day overlap the night and vice versa. This is proving that It states the Earth is a sphere, because if it were FLAT then how would it be possible for it to overlap each other..? And then the next line just states is ALOT clearly, stating the exact shape of the earth. PROVING: Earth is not a perfect spehere, but it is flattened at the poles making is almost a shape of an egg. THIS WAS PROVEN AND PHOTOGRAPHED BY ASTRONAUTS AND SCIENTISTS! Google if you do not believe me!

    ---

    Well these are just two of the tons of proof and facts written in these Holy Books, which are thousands of years old! I'm a Muslim therefore I know not much of the facts in other books besides the Quran', Although there are some facts stated in the Quran' but I'm 99.9999999% sure there are breathtaking facts in the Bible and in the book of Judaism!

    Now I got a question for any non-believer, How to *HECK* do you think people 2000 thousand years ago knew all these facts when, forget about instrumental tools, they didn't even have electricity! They hardly knew how use a wheel for Christ sake! xP (OK, maybe they did but still!)

  25. #175
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    3,861
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Quoted
    1 Post(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by marpis View Post
    So basically, if you say that there is no god, you say that you, human, are the wisest being of the universe.
    You assume that there are no other life forms anywhere in the universe.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nadeem View Post

    Quran' :
    Surah 39, Ayah 5 : "He created the heavens and the earth in true (proportions). He makes the night overlap the day and the day overlap the night"
    Surah 79, Ayah 30 : "And the earth, moreover, hath He made egg shaped."
    The thought that Earth is spherical was around long before the Torah, Bible, and Quran. It goes back even before Greece. Taken from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spherical_Earth:
    Aristotle observed "there are stars seen in Egypt and [...] Cyprus which are not seen in the northerly regions." Since this could only happen on a curved surface, he too believed Earth was a sphere "of no great size, for otherwise the effect of so slight a change of place would not be quickly apparent." (De caelo, 298a2-10)

    Aristotle provided physical and observational arguments supporting the idea of a spherical Earth:

    * Every portion of the Earth tends toward the center until by compression and convergence they form a sphere. (De caelo, 297a9-21)
    * Travelers going south see southern constellations rise higher above the horizon; and
    * The shadow of Earth on the Moon during a lunar eclipse is round. (De caelo, 297b31-298a10)
    That is just one example. There are many more listed.

    Also, though the earth isn't perfectly round, it's not really shaped like an egg either..

Page 7 of 9 FirstFirst ... 56789 LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Logical Proof of God's Existence
    By Esteban in forum Discussions & Debates
    Replies: 132
    Last Post: 01-24-2009, 11:41 PM
  2. The Logical Next Player Process
    By Pyro in forum OSR Intermediate Scripting Tutorials
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 01-10-2009, 02:12 AM
  3. Idea on SCAR? logical?
    By jumbosped in forum News and General
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 08-10-2008, 01:56 AM
  4. Logical operators in Scar/Pascal
    By tojoh in forum OSR Help
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 06-03-2008, 02:30 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •