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Thread: Another God Thread

  1. #51
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    i dont see how some people cant see the parallels between vehemently denying religion and vehemently accepting it. all extremes meet

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    I don't believe in god, unless someone can tell me where god came from?

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  4. #54
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    Which god are we talking about here?
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    ^ As most people for some reason bash Christianity the most, I assume it's the Christian god.

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    So why do they believe in the Christian God more then any other? You could have someone who believes in the Hindu God equally strongly and they have no way of telling who's got it right or wrong.

    To quote Homer Simpson, "And what if we've picked the wrong religion? Every week we're just making God madder and madder?"
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    Quote Originally Posted by i luffs yeww View Post
    Nice link! rep+ But it's true, they don't understand it, calling your believe superior above others, while its just a matter of place and time where you grew up with(just a few people switch from religion).

    Religion is a way to understand life, an easy way. Religion could also be a tool to hope, knowing that at the end you will go to heaven. Religion could be used to create a tight group out of a village that was divided before. But remember that we use Religion, and not otherwise...

    I don't need religion, I can handle life myself.

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yakman View Post
    So why do they believe in the Christian God more then any other? You could have someone who believes in the Hindu God equally strongly and they have no way of telling who's got it right or wrong.

    To quote Homer Simpson, "And what if we've picked the wrong religion? Every week we're just making God madder and madder?"
    In case you're directing that at me, I don't agree with them. Personally, I don't find much difference between any religion, besides some differences in Buddhism, but not many people would agree.

    Quote Originally Posted by masterBB View Post
    Nice link! rep+ But it's true, they don't understand it, calling your believe superior above others, while its just a matter of place and time where you grew up with(just a few people switch from religion).

    Religion is a way to understand life, an easy way. Religion could also be a tool to hope, knowing that at the end you will go to heaven. Religion could be used to create a tight group out of a village that was divided before. But remember that we use Religion, and not otherwise...

    I don't need religion, I can handle life myself.
    I love that quote.

    The "easier" life style is controversial. Karl Marx, Emile Durkheim, and I believe it was Max Weber? All said different things about people and religion. I don't really remember my Sophomore sociology class debates very much, but I know that I agreed with Marx for most things back then. You should read about those three people (Marx and Durkheim were much more intriguing to me than Weber (iirc, he basically just bashed Catholics (or Protestants.. He was one of the two and bashed the other, but I believe he was Protestant and bashed Catholics))). It has a lot to do with life/people/religion and what's actually "easier" or "better," I suppose, than the contrary.

    I'm not sure if I've brought this up, but something that I've been pondering (and concluded, which I shan't say on here, but I'd love to talk to anyone about this (or anything ) privately, just PM/MSN me (panic._@live.com)) is whether or not it's okay to be happy and blinded from the truth, or if it's best to tell those people that life isn't so great and that there's terrible things happening in this world and that they're trapped.

    I think it's interesting to think about.

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by i luffs yeww View Post
    In case you're directing that at me, I don't agree with them. Personally, I don't find much difference between any religion, besides some differences in Buddhism, but not many people would agree.
    That's exactly the point. You don't agree with them but they don't agree with you, and who's got it right here?
    Its called the problem of multiple revelations, there's so many religions and all of them claim to be the One True Religion. So how do you know your religion is the right one and everyone else is wrong?

    There's actually many differences between religions. Christianity says you must accept Jesus as the son of God or you'll go to hell. Islam says you must believe Muhammad as the ultimate prophet or you go to hell. These are mutually exclusive. Its not possible to be both a Christian and a Muslim (despite what Gandhi says)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yakman View Post
    There's actually many differences between religions. Christianity says you must accept Jesus as the son of God or you'll go to hell. Islam says you must believe Muhammad as the ultimate prophet or you go to hell. These are mutually exclusive. Its not possible to be both a Christian and a Muslim (despite what Gandhi says)
    Except for the names, I don't see many differences. They have the same core, and almost the same rituals.

    But there are better examples of religions that were different, religions that weren't changed in medieval times... Old European religions had multiple gods to explain the unexplainable. Think about the religion from the barbarians and the religion from the romans. But as time passes, some people discovered that it wasn't a god who throws the lightning. It were the clouds and the seas became predictable and safe(saver).

    Both the Christian and the Muslim got a religion with one god. Both religions had a book. Both religions were complete rewritten by the more powerful people in the past to suit there needs...

  11. #61
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    ^ Exactly. I know that they have different names/prophets/whatever/etc., but the same ideas are in every form of religion and magic (magic is a broad term).

    Yakman, I don't care if I'm right or wrong, however I believe I'm correct, while so do others. Like my quote from Stephen Roberts shows, I'm virtually synonymous with any theist. I'm well aware of that, and I don't think I'm any different than anyone else, as I'm not. As I'm sure I've said before on here, there is no truth; there are only many truths.

  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by i luffs yeww View Post
    ^ Exactly. I know that they have different names/prophets/whatever/etc., but the same ideas are in every form of religion and magic (magic is a broad term).
    Not fully true, there are enough religions with other ideas as those two. Buddhism for example, for them everyone is equal. In Christianity, you got the pope and other people in the Vatican, who have more rights and are more powerful than normal citizens. But I guess that it was more equal when it just started, in the roman empire. It just has been rewritten so many times, unbelievable that so many people still think that the bible tells the truth. Some now and than they discover new pages that tells a different story as the story in the bible.

    For example: The bible says Jesus walked over the water to the boat. An other much older page says this, Jesus walked around the lake, and cause of the bad weather he reached the other side faster than the boat. When the boat was almost there, Jesus walked in to the water to pull the boat to the land. Standing -in- the water, not -on- the water.

    All religions are man made, unless god gave us a sign or something, I don't believe he is there.

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    I said something previously about Buddhism being different.

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    Lol'd at mysterious123's response.
    If god exists then he's a d1ck. Humans ride off and kill each pry andhe just sits rust and watches. He could stop it.

    If god doesn't exist then believe is just a false hope.

    Either way i dont want to be associated with him
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    I have no proof, no evidence, but I do have some active imagination to share...









    For some reason this makes me think of starcraft...

    God is protoss. Their awsome understanding way overpwrs ours. We were created so they can conduct reasearch. Perhaps on how their civilization conquered problems, and changed.



    or.



    (This may be total BS. But idea.)
    God got bored. He/she/it/... then created friends. He/she/it/... then made friends beat each other so the friend numbers can be reduced to a more managable amount. Then Got got sad and shoved all friends to Earth. God now can manage more friends easier! No more declining population, just clustered population with slower/capped growth. God must have feelings too.
    Last edited by mrpickle; 10-17-2010 at 01:37 AM.

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    The only feasible explanation is the gnostic view where we're sent to earth to experience negativity and positivity away from a perfect home, and upon death return "home"-- and are allowed multiple trips to this plane.

    If that isn't true, then I'd find it hard to believe in a God.


    Another feasible one... which I would HATE if it was true... is this.
    I found this a really spiritual read, makes you think twice about the afterlife and how you treat people, even if you don't put one percent of faith in any religion
    The Egg (By: Andy Weir)

    You were on your way home when you died.
    It was a car accident. Nothing particularly remarkable, but fatal nonetheless. You left behind a wife and two children. It was a painless death. The EMTs tried their best to save you, but to no avail. Your body was so utterly shattered you were better off, trust me.
    And that’s when you met me.

    “What… what happened?” You asked. “Where am I?”
    “You died,” I said, matter-of-factly. No point in mincing words.
    “There was a… a truck and it was skidding…”
    “Yup,” I said.
    “I… I died?”
    “Yup. But don’t feel bad about it. Everyone dies,” I said.
    You looked around. There was nothingness. Just you and me. “What is this place?” You asked. “Is this the afterlife?”
    “More or less,” I said.
    “Are you god?” You asked.
    “Yup,” I replied. “I’m God.”
    “My kids… my wife,” you said.
    “What about them?”
    “Will they be all right?”
    “That’s what I like to see,” I said. “You just died and your main concern is for your family. That’s good stuff right there.”
    You looked at me with fascination. To you, I didn’t look like God. I just looked like some man. Or possibly a woman. Some vague authority figure, maybe. More of a grammar school teacher than the almighty.
    “Don’t worry,” I said. “They’ll be fine. Your kids will remember you as perfect in every way. They didn’t have time to grow contempt for you. You wife will cry on the outside, but will be secretly relieved. To be fair, your marriage was falling apart. If it’s any consolation, she’ll feel very guilty for feeling relieved.”
    “Oh,” you said. “So what happens now? Do I go to heaven or hell or something?”
    “Neither,” I said. “You’ll be reincarnated.”
    “Ah,” you said. “So the Hindus were right,”
    “All religions are right in their own way,” I said. “Walk with me.”

    You followed along as we strode through the void. “Where are we going?”
    “Nowhere in particular,” I said. “It’s just nice to walk while we talk.”
    “So what’s the point, then?” You asked. “When I get reborn, I’ll just be a blank slate, right? A baby. So all my experiences and everything I did in this life won’t matter.”
    “Not so!” I said. “You have within you all the knowledge and experiences of all your past lives. You just don’t remember them right now.”

    I stopped walking and took you by the shoulders. “Your soul is more magnificent, beautiful, and gigantic than you can possibly imagine. A human mind can only contain a tiny fraction of what you are. It’s like sticking your finger in a glass of water to see if it’s hot or cold. You put a tiny part of yourself into the vessel, and when you bring it back out, you’ve gained all the experiences it had.
    “You’ve been in a human for the last 48 years, so you haven’t stretched out yet and felt the rest of your immense consciousness. If we hung out here for long enough, you’d start remembering everything. But there’s no point to doing that between each life.”
    “How many times have I been reincarnated, then?”
    “Oh lots. Lots and lots. An in to lots of different lives.” I said. “This time around, you’ll be a Chinese peasant girl in 540 AD.”
    “Wait, what?” You stammered. “You’re sending me back in time?”
    “Well, I guess technically. Time, as you know it, only exists in your universe. Things are different where I come from.”
    “Where you come from?” You said.

    “Oh sure,” I explained “I come from somewhere. Somewhere else. And there are others like me. I know you’ll want to know what it’s like there, but honestly you wouldn’t understand.”
    “Oh,” you said, a little let down. “But wait. If I get reincarnated to other places in time, I could have interacted with myself at some point.”
    “Sure. Happens all the time. And with both lives only aware of their own lifespan you don’t even know it’s happening.”
    “So what’s the point of it all?”

    “Seriously?” I asked. “Seriously? You’re asking me for the meaning of life? Isn’t that a little stereotypical?”
    “Well it’s a reasonable question,” you persisted.
    I looked you in the eye. “The meaning of life, the reason I made this whole universe, is for you to mature.”
    “You mean mankind? You want us to mature?”
    “No, just you. I made this whole universe for you. With each new life you grow and mature and become a larger and greater intellect.”

    “Just me? What about everyone else?”
    “There is no one else,” I said. “In this universe, there’s just you and me.”
    You stared blankly at me. “But all the people on earth…”
    “All you. Different incarnations of you.”
    “Wait. I’m everyone!?”
    “Now you’re getting it,” I said, with a congratulatory slap on the back.

    “I’m every human being who ever lived?”
    “Or who will ever live, yes.”
    “I’m Abraham Lincoln?”
    “And you’re John Wilkes Booth, too,” I added.
    “I’m Hitler?” You said, appalled.
    “And you’re the millions he killed.”
    “I’m Jesus?”
    “And you’re everyone who followed him.”
    You fell silent.
    “Every time you victimized someone,” I said, “you were victimizing yourself. Every act of kindness you’ve done, you’ve done to yourself. Every happy and sad moment ever experienced by any human was, or will be, experienced by you.”
    You thought for a long time.
    “Why?” You asked me. “Why do all this?”
    “Because someday, you will become like me. Because that’s what you are. You’re one of my kind. You’re my child.”

    “Whoa,” you said, incredulous. “You mean I’m a god?”
    “No. Not yet. You’re a fetus. You’re still growing. Once you’ve lived every human life throughout all time, you will have grown enough to be born.”
    “So the whole universe,” you said, “it’s just…”
    “An egg.” I answered. “Now it’s time for you to move on to your next life.”
    And I sent you on your way.

    Food for thought, hopefully not true though. Of course we just don't know.

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    If you wish to prove a claim, it must be possible to conceive of evidence that would prove the claim false.

    Quote Originally Posted by James Lett
    It may sound paradoxical, but in order for any claim to be true, it must be falsifiable. The rule of falsifiability is a guarantee that if the claim is false, the evidence will prove it false; and if the claim is true, the evidence will not disprove it (in which case the claim can be tentatively accepted as true until such time as evidence is brought forth that does disprove it). The rule of falsifiability, in short, says that the evidence must matter, and as such it is the first and most important and most fundamental rule of evidential reasoning.

    The rule of falsifiability is essential for this reason: If nothing conceivable could ever disprove the claim, then the evidence that does exist would not matter; it would be pointless to even examine the evidence, because the conclusion is already known — the claim is invulnerable to any possible evidence. This would not mean, however, that the claim is true; instead it would mean that the claim is meaningless. This is so because it is impossible — logically impossible — for any claim to be true no matter what. For every true claim, you can always conceive of evidence that would make the claim untrue — in other words, again, every true claim is falsifiable.

    For example, the true claim that the life span of human beings is less than 200 years is falsifiable; it would be falsified if a single human being were to live to be 200 years old. Similarly, the true claim that water freezes at 32° F is falsifiable; it would be falsified if water were to freeze at, say, 34° F. Each of these claims is firmly established as scientific “fact,” and we do not expect either claim ever to be falsified; however, the point is that either could be. Any claim that could not be falsified would be devoid of any propositional content; that is, it would not be making a factual assertion — it would instead be making an emotive statement, a declaration of the way the claimant feels about the world. Nonfalsifiable claims do communicate information, but what they describe is the claimant’s value orientation. They communicate nothing whatsoever of a factual nature, and hence are neither true nor false. Nonfalsifiable statements are propositionally vacuous.

    There are two principal ways in which the rule of falsifiability can be violated — two ways, in other words, of making nonfalsifiable claims. The first variety of nonfalsifiable statements is the undeclared claim: a statement that is so broad or vague that it lacks any propositional content. The undeclared claim is basically unintelligible and consequently meaningless. Consider, for example, the claim that crystal therapists can use pieces of quartz to restore balance and harmony to a person’s spiritual energy. What does it mean to have unbalanced spiritual energy? How is the condition recognized and diagnosed? What evidence would prove that someone’s unbalanced spiritual energy had been — or had not been — balanced by the application of crystal therapy? Most New Age wonders, in fact, consist of similarly undeclared claims that dissolve completely when exposed to the solvent of rationality.

    The undeclared claim has the advantage that virtually any evidence that could be adduced could be interpreted as congruent with the claim, and for that reason it is especially popular among paranormalists who claim precognitive powers. Jeane Dixon, for example, predicted that 1987 would be a year “filled with changes” for Caroline Kennedy. Dixon also predicted that Jack Kemp would “face major disagreements with the rest of his party” in 1987 and that "world-wide drug terror” would be “unleashed by narcotics czars” in the same year. She further revealed that Dan Rather “may [or may not] be hospitalized” in 1988, and that Whitney Houston’s “greatest problem” in 1986 would be “balancing her personal life against her career.” The undeclared claim boils down to a statement that can be translated as “Whatever will be, will be.”

    The second variety of nonfalsifiable statements, which is even more popular among paranormalists, involves the use of the multiple out, that is, an inexhaustible series of excuses intended to explain away the evidence that would seem to falsify the claim. Creationists, for example, claim that the universe is no more than 10,000 years old. They do so despite the fact that we can observe stars that are billions of light-years from the earth, which means that the light must have left those stars billions of years ago, and which proves that the universe must be billions of years old. How then do the creationists respond to this falsification of their claim? By suggesting that God must have created the light already on the way from those distant star at the moment of creation 10,000 years ago. No conceivable piece of evidence, of course, could disprove that claim.

    Additional examples of multiple outs abound in the realm of the paranormal. UFO proponents, faced with a lack of reliable physical or photographic evidence to buttress the claims, point to a secret “government conspiracy” that is allegedly preventing the release of evidence that would support their case. Psychic healers say they can heal you if you have enough faith in their psychic powers. Psychokinetics say they can bend spoons with their minds if they are not exposed to negative vibrations from skeptic observers. Tarot readers can predict your fate if you’re sincere in your desire for knowledge. The multiple out means, in effect, “Heads I win, tails you lose.”
    This should end the thread.

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    ^ I lol'd at "this should end the thread." ^^ Silly. Thinking that debates about religion will ever end.. You're cute.

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    Supporting point .
    Ten Rules for Being Human
    by Cherie Carter-Scott

    1. You will receive a body. You may like it or hate it, but it's yours to keep for the entire period.
    2. You will learn lessons. You are enrolled in a full-time informal school called, "life."
    3. There are no mistakes, only lessons. Growth is a process of trial, error, and experimentation. The "failed" experiments are as much a part of the process as the experiments that ultimately "work."
    4. Lessons are repeated until they are learned. A lesson will be presented to you in various forms until you have learned it. When you have learned it, you can go on to the next lesson.
    5. Learning lessons does not end. There's no part of life that doesn't contain its lessons. If you're alive, that means there are still lessons to be learned.
    6. "There" is no better a place than "here." When your "there" has become a "here", you will simply obtain another "there" that will again look better than "here."
    7. Other people are merely mirrors of you. You cannot love or hate something about another person unless it reflects to you something you love or hate about yourself.
    8. What you make of your life is up to you. You have all the tools and resources you need. What you do with them is up to you. The choice is yours.
    9. Your answers lie within you. The answers to life's questions lie within you. All you need to do is look, listen, and trust.
    10. You will forget all this.




    what does this prove? nothing. Therefore there really is no point in arguing. Ferioc1ty is highlighting that.

    But of course the argument will continue whether there are proofs or not. It's an enjoyment at the very least, a goal at the very most.

    So, I agree with both Ferioc1ty and I luffs yeww.
    Last edited by mrpickle; 10-18-2010 at 04:06 AM. Reason: look nicer

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    Quote Originally Posted by i luffs yeww View Post
    ^ I lol'd at "this should end the thread." ^^ Silly. Thinking that debates about religion will ever end.. You're cute.
    I wasn't going to reply until I read this, brightened my mood.

    Who cares? Believe what ever you want, just stop making god threads.

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    alot of you say he cant exist because your cant prove it, but nothing in the universe is provable either, prove that two plus two equals four. you cant. someone made up those words to represent numbers, but for all we know four is actually five. everything you think you know is what you believe. prove that black is black and its not white, again you cant because what you see as white could be what others see as black, but they were taught that whatever that looks like, is black. nobody sees or thinks or is the same, and our lives are all about what we believe. i dont care is you agree with me or not, but i think god exists because the universe cant just start out of nowhere. life cant spontaneously start too. i think god created the beginning. jmo

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    Quote Originally Posted by i luffs yeww View Post
    I really think anyone participating in a religious debate needs to understand this. Otherwise, all arguments from either side will boil down to "lol prove it".

    I happen to believe in some kind of singular higher power; beyond that however, I really don't know what I believe in exactly. I call it God and myself a Christian because that's what I know and what is familiar.

    I'd never dare to say another religion is 'wrong', because if you think about it every monotheistic religion (as well as several polytheistic ones) are exactly the same, just with different names for their deities and rituals to honor them. The core beliefs and emphasized morality vary little between them. If you believe in one religion, it's highly likely you unknowingly believe in a number of others as well.

    (Sorry if this is considered a gravedig, just wanted to share those two cents)
    Long ago, the '90s Nicktoons lived together in harmony. Then, everything changed when the century turned. Only Avatar, the best of the 2000's Nicktoons, could save them. But when the channel needed it most, the show finished. Four years passed and Mike and Bryan created the new Avatar: Legend of Korra. And although the show itself is great, it has a long way to go before it can live up to The Last Airbender. But I believe Korra can save Nickelodeon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dd409 View Post
    I really think anyone participating in a religious debate needs to understand this. Otherwise, all arguments from either side will boil down to "lol prove it".

    I happen to believe in some kind of singular higher power; beyond that however, I really don't know what I believe in exactly. I call it God and myself a Christian because that's what I know and what is familiar.

    I'd never dare to say another religion is 'wrong', because if you think about it every monotheistic religion (as well as several polytheistic ones) are exactly the same, just with different names for their deities and rituals to honor them. The core beliefs and emphasized morality vary little between them. If you believe in one religion, it's highly likely you unknowingly believe in a number of others as well.

    (Sorry if this is considered a gravedig, just wanted to share those two cents)
    Excellent point. I'd also like to add that the core beliefs and emphasized morality of atheists and agnostics are also similar to theists. Also, before the 10 commandments, people weren't murdering and coveting all the time.

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    yes and no. God could exist with or without being able to have it proven, however I believe personally that you can prove it, but that is not the point of this debate. However I will take up the old standard of science, just because you can't prove something does not negate its existence gravity was there long before it was proven, as were other natural forces, just because we don't have the insight to reveal something does not mean that it does not or can not exist, in fact some scientist believe in so called dark particles even though they can not be seen or proven to exist they know they are there based on conditions surrounding them.

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    gravity is just a theory, not a law.
    <TViYH> i had a dream about you again awkwardsaw
    Malachi 2:3

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