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Thread: Scar is NOT the problem!

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    Quote Originally Posted by NCDS View Post
    @Tad, join RSBot. You will fit in better there.
    I already did... Stop telling me to go away, what am I doing wrong? I'm simply suggesting a way for SRL to improve, why is that a crime?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tad View Post
    Lack of experience is what you're all using as the main argument against reflection: Completely reasonable. However, several SRL Devs (IIRC) are proficient with creating and maintaining reflection.
    Quote Originally Posted by RM
    There are very few people who are able to fix reflection right now. And out of those, no one really has the time.
    Benland100, Method, Yakman and maybe wizzup are those who as far as my knowledge goes would be able to fix reflection.

    Plus Method is too busy, and so is Benland althugh he is now giving a hand as far as I know. Yakman is generally inactive and Wizzup dislikes Java and is already busy with uni + simba + color + RL.

    if by several you mean 4, then yes.

    Finally, n3ss has the best point. We'd be using a pascal interpreter with pluggins todo java stuff VS a java bot. RSBot would own us big time.

    ~RM

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    One more thing...

    I do not mean to "attack" reflection users in my posts. If used correctly it can be a very powerful tool. I just despise people who only use reflection because they can't use color.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasta Magician View Post
    Benland100, Method, Yakman and maybe wizzup are those who as far as my knowledge goes would be able to fix reflection.

    Plus Method is too busy, and so is Benland althugh he is now giving a hand as far as I know. Yakman is generally inactive and Wizzup dislikes Java and is already busy with uni + simba + color + RL.

    if by several you mean 4, then yes.

    Finally, n3ss has the best point. We'd be using a pascal interpreter with pluggins todo java stuff VS a java bot. RSBot would own us big time.

    ~RM
    I'm not going to dig through and find out who is and isn't, but here is who else I think has the power to (correct me if I'm wrong):

    Naike?
    Mormonman
    Nava2

    All it takes is 1-2 people with the support of the community, and it can probably be done. As for using pascal vs Java for Java, that is a good point, which brings us back to...

    Nonetheless, you guys have already stated you want programming challenges to take precedence over RS success, so this is somewhat irrelevant. A logical answer to my question (last couple posts) would probably clear everything up...

    EDIT: @NCDS - I doubt there are many reflection scripters who are simply incapable or not intelligent enough to use color. Personally, I don't have a desire to, because creating a color script brings little benefit to those who wish to use it to auto. Sure, it might be more educational, but that's the line between SRL's philosophy and other bots'.
    Last edited by Runescapian321; 02-07-2010 at 06:02 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasta Magician View Post
    Benland100, Method, Yakman and maybe wizzup are those who as far as my knowledge goes would be able to fix reflection.

    Plus Method is too busy, and so is Benland althugh he is now giving a hand as far as I know. Yakman is generally inactive and Wizzup dislikes Java and is already busy with uni + simba + color + RL.

    if by several you mean 4, then yes.

    Finally, n3ss has the best point. We'd be using a pascal interpreter with pluggins todo java stuff VS a java bot. RSBot would own us big time.

    ~RM
    Just wanted to add that J_Pizzle is currently learning Java and is going to try to fix reflection by himself ^.^
    NYAN NYAN NYAN NYAN NYAN NYAN NYAN NYAN NYAN NYAN NYAN NYAN NYAN

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    Quote Originally Posted by bionicle1800 View Post
    Just wanted to add that J_Pizzle is currently learning Java and is going to try to fix reflection by himself ^.^
    He doesn't understand much of the SCAR side of reflection, which is a bigger issue than learning Java to understand the RS client.
    :-)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tad View Post
    Sure, it might be more educational, but that's the line between SRL's philosophy and other bots'.
    That is very true, which is why I don't see why this is constantly such a "hot topic". Why don't some of you reflection "elitists" help silentwolf with his OpenGL experiments?

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    Just to point out, I've tried to fix this..
    and I failed.. Hard.

    I even made Method ignore me a few times , it was really that bad.

    Just close this, as it has no logic thinking behind it, at all.
    I was once like that.. but if you actually think, we lack knowledge.

    To be honest, that should be the end of this thread..
    No point in to argue over something, which we can't fix.

    WE LACK KNOWLEDGE

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    Quote Originally Posted by Naike View Post
    Just to point out, I've tried to fix this..
    and I failed.. Hard.

    I even made Method ignore me a few times , it was really that bad.

    Just close this, as it has no logic thinking behind it, at all.
    I was once like that.. but if you actually think, we lack knowledge.

    To be honest, that should be the end of this thread..
    No point in to argue over something, which we can't fix.

    WE LACK KNOWLEDGE
    but if we all put our heads together, eat rainbow kitties and sunshine, sit on our asses and wait for someone else and bitch in the meantime, I'm sure it will be fixed!
    “Ignorance, the root and the stem of every evil.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blumblebee View Post
    but if we all put our heads together, eat rainbow kitties and sunshine, sit on our asses and wait for someone else and bitch in the meantime, I'm sure it will be fixed!
    Trust me when I say this, We lack knowledge.

    Me and RM sat down for two hours, and tbh, we didn't get much wiser.

    Edit: Also, when RS decides to change something, so the SMART side gets broken..? then we're really screwed.
    And just to make worst case scenario, Ben gets hit by a bus..? Now we're reeaaallly screwed.

    (BenLand100 does not get hit by buses, BenLand100 hits buses)
    Last edited by BenLand100; 02-10-2010 at 06:05 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NCDS View Post
    That is very true, which is why I don't see why this is constantly such a "hot topic". Why don't some of you reflection "elitists" help silentwolf with his OpenGL experiments?
    1) I wouldn't know how (and don't have a desire to learn)
    2) I believe OpenGL to be much more limited than reflection, from what I've seen so far

    Quote Originally Posted by Naike View Post
    Just to point out, I've tried to fix this..
    and I failed.. Hard.

    I even made Method ignore me a few times , it was really that bad.

    Just close this, as it has no logic thinking behind it, at all.
    I was once like that.. but if you actually think, we lack knowledge.

    To be honest, that should be the end of this thread..
    No point in to argue over something, which we can't fix.

    WE LACK KNOWLEDGE
    I don't see how a community of such amazing intelligence lacks it when dealing with another topic (no, I'm not flaming SRL, I'm just implying that something is missing: support, motivation, etc., rather than simple lack of knowledge). EDIT: I suppose I may be wrong, and that it is simply not feasible for SRL. But the opinion that I'm seeing is beginning to form is that creating reflection is a greater challenge than color...which...Well, let's see what the response to that is.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blumblebee View Post
    but if we all put our heads together, eat rainbow kitties and sunshine, sit on our asses and wait for someone else and bitch in the meantime, I'm sure it will be fixed!
    Could you please stop randomly flaming everyone and instead contribute something meaningful to this conversation which was intended to be a suggestion, not a rant at how everything sucks?
    Last edited by Runescapian321; 02-07-2010 at 06:36 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tad View Post
    I don't see how a community of such amazing intelligence lacks it when dealing with another topic (no, I'm not flaming SRL, I'm just implying that something is missing: support, motivation, etc., rather than simple lack of knowledge).
    It's like having a dog maiowing..
    Give up people, or go learn java, as hell sure I won't.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tad View Post
    I don't see how a community of such amazing intelligence lacks it when dealing with another topic (no, I'm not flaming SRL, I'm just implying that something is missing: support, motivation, etc., rather than simple lack of knowledge). EDIT: I suppose I may be wrong, and that it is simply not feasible for SRL. But the opinion that I'm seeing is beginning to form is that creating reflection is a greater challenge than color...which...Well, let's see what the response to that is.
    People lack the drive and intelligence to go out and learn something for themselves instead of being spoonfed it through a step-by-step tutorial.
    :-)

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    Likely nobody noticed my edit, so I'll repost it:

    EDIT: I suppose I may be wrong, and that it is simply not feasible for SRL. But the opinion that I'm seeing is beginning to form is that creating reflection is a greater challenge than color...which...Well, let's see what the response to that is.
    Either it's more challenging (which SRL wants in the first place), or not challenging enough, which, according to Naike, is false. Or it's just the Java. Which brings us back to (still awaiting a response, any response to this..):

    Most of my arguments above are assuming SRL wants to become a better autoing community, which is not the case, so I guess they don't apply. What I don't understand now is how you can try to do both: become great autoers yet keep the challenges of color there. I'm not satisfied with Yohojo's response. If you support reflection or OpenGL, most new scripters will take one or the other instead of color (Most of you came here with the intention of RS botting, not programming, so it's reasonable to think people would choose the more advanced techniques). Your goal is to give people the experience of coding with many challenges, correct? By supporting those things, you are, in effect, vastly decreasing the 'challenge' that you're looking are. Again, I don't see a middle route as being feasible.
    EDIT: Method - Good point. It's not unwarranted though; if you go through the trouble of finding out yourself, you're going to run into a lot of useless information, and it will be tough to decipher what you need and don't need when you don't know what you need in the place.
    Last edited by Runescapian321; 02-07-2010 at 06:41 PM.

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    Wow.. I've been gone for 2 days, and I cbf to read it all, but imo Color is the future, and has always been the best.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tad View Post
    Likely nobody noticed my edit, so I'll repost it:
    Either it's more challenging (which SRL wants in the first place), or not challenging enough, which, according to Naike, is false. Or it's just the Java. Which brings us back to (still awaiting a response, any response to this..):
    And here is where you go wrong. You are talking about two different worlds.

    One is the world where reflection is used in scar, which is what people commonly classify as easy.

    The other world is one where you have to understand the whole RS Client and so on, which is beyond basic java.

    You actually have to be proficient in java to understand how reflection works and where to get what you need, and if you're gonna go through the trouble of learning all that just to use reflection, you'll probably be better off at RSBot where reflection is currently working and where all the java you jsut learnt won't go to waste because they actually code in java.

    ~RM

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zyt3x View Post
    Wow.. I've been gone for 2 days, and I cbf to read it all, but imo Color is the future, and has always been the best.
    Well, this thread was started less than 12 hours ago

    I beg to differ; Color is the past. Summary of thread: This thread is about how SRL has fallen behind in development, most notably the anti-randoms. Wizzup himself mentioned that the include was in poor shape, though he disagrees with adding reflection. Camaro has proposed that fixing this would be best by implementing reflection (and this is not a plea for fixing reflection; it's a plea to fix SRL).

    EDIT: @RM - All right. So fixing reflection for SRL isn't worth it because you would have to attain a vast amount of Java knowledge which would afterwards be virtually useless? Makes sense, thank you for clearing that up. Back to: Why work with reflection at all?

    Most of my arguments above are assuming SRL wants to become a better autoing community, which is not the case, so I guess they don't apply. What I don't understand now is how you can try to do both: become great autoers yet keep the challenges of color there. I'm not satisfied with Yohojo's response. If you support reflection or OpenGL, most new scripters will take one or the other instead of color (Most of you came here with the intention of RS botting, not programming, so it's reasonable to think people would choose the more advanced techniques). Your goal is to give people the experience of coding with many challenges, correct? By supporting those things, you are, in effect, vastly decreasing the 'challenge' that you're looking are. Again, I don't see a middle route as being feasible.
    Last edited by Runescapian321; 02-07-2010 at 06:50 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tad View Post
    Likely nobody noticed my edit, so I'll repost it:



    Either it's more challenging (which SRL wants in the first place), or not challenging enough, which, according to Naike, is false. Or it's just the Java. Which brings us back to (still awaiting a response, any response to this..):



    EDIT: Method - Good point. It's not unwarranted though; if you go through the trouble of finding out yourself, you're going to run into a lot of useless information, and it will be tough to decipher what you need and don't need when you don't know what you need in the place.
    Bullshit. Reflection isn't hard to update, it's just that the people who can show no interest in doing so. And don't come telling me we can't. There are plenty of people who have done it in the past, and it hasn't become any harder.
    (No, I won't do it. Perhaps when Simba works with SRL 4, and work on SRL 5 is started.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Tad View Post
    I beg to differ; Color is the past. Summary of thread: This thread is about how SRL has fallen behind in development, most notably the anti-randoms. Wizzup himself mentioned that the include was in poor shape, though he disagrees with adding reflection. Camaro has proposed that fixing this would be best by implementing reflection (and this is not a plea for fixing reflection; it's a plea to fix SRL).
    Perhaps try writing less biased summaries.

    The SRL include isn't "fixed" by adding reflection, the include is fixed by putting some love in it. Something I am guilty of not doing myself, for over 18 months.

    If you want to add Reflection to the core of SRL, go ahead and fork SRL. I don't care. It won't be added. For all the reasons I have stated in the past. I'm not going to post them for the 9001th time.
    No, I am not short-sighted, but I am growing very tired of all you kiddos whining about Reflection. Why don't you just stay at RSBot if you like it much more there?
    Last edited by Wizzup?; 02-07-2010 at 06:53 PM.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Tad View Post
    I beg to differ; Color is the past. Summary of thread: This thread is about how I think SRL has fallen behind in development, most notably the anti-randoms. Wizzup himself mentioned that the include was in poor shape, though he disagrees with adding reflection. Camaro has proposed that fixing this would be best by implementing reflection (and this is not a plea for fixing reflection; it's a plea to fix SRL).
    fixed it for you, because opinions aren't facts And it's not like RSbot is all that special. I was over learning java there for a while and their anti-randoms aren't 100%, they are actually much like SRL's in my opinion, although that may have changed recently who knows.

    As for flaming, my apologizes. Sometimes I get a little testy when people don't read and listen but instead drive along with the same mentality, much like die-hard Christians (don't flame by die-hard I mean the people who think the world is 6000 years old). The fact is, no one wants to take the time to learn java proficiently enough to implement reflection, and lets be serious if I had to learn Java to fix it, I might aswell just go to a java bot instead of coming back and wasting my time at a pascal [interpreter] orientated bot.

    Fact is color can never be patch, it can never be removed from the game. Thus, we will always remain, and remain the only color bot alive (afaik).
    “Ignorance, the root and the stem of every evil.”

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    I still dont freaking get it.
    All of you reflection wanters, go to RsBot/iBot and stop complaining to us.

    We enjoy color, we dont care that its harder, less efficient, worse, not as good, not the best, etc etc! Big deal, leave us alone, we are happy and fine with it, you are not!


    Reflection wanters stop complaining about color, because obviously lots of people are fine and content with it, and just go to RsBot/iBot and be happy there?!

    Why are you all wanting us to change so badly when obviously we don't really want to (And reflection is damn broken/no one can fix it right now, so IF IT WAS FIXED we would be a strong color and reflection community, but right now we can't be, so sorry!)

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    I think it's a bit short-sighted to say that everyone who likes Reflections should leave this community.
    Verrekte Koekwous

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blumblebee View Post
    Fact is color can never be patch, it can never be removed from the game. Thus, we will always remain, and remain the only color bot alive (afaik).
    Protip: No, but input functions from scar can

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    Quote Originally Posted by n3ss3s View Post
    So are we driving on competing Java bots by using Java in-directly through plugins in PascalScript?
    I think that says it all.. SRL is devoted to color finding routines, although the community has become more open minded towards new methods, we have and always will be based on color...if you want to use other methods, that's your choice, just know thre are other comunities that will better to support your choice...

    I have mentioned my stance before....

    I didn't use reflection in the past, but I still did what I could to help develop it, because it was intriguing...
    And yes, I also had the mindset, "Hey, I'm going to be a hero and single handedly fix reflection".....as mentioned...NOT THAT EASY !!!!

    All I hear, is a bunch of people bitching about wanting it to be fixed, but actually doing nothing about it....

    Please don't make posts trying to shove something down our throat that doesn't even work and you personally aren't doing anything to fix it....

    @Tad, lost a lil respect for you in this thread....you're here just to stir shit up ?...you constantly compare oranges to apples...please see above post....


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    Well I think OpenGL was just alienated...

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    Quote Originally Posted by mastaraymond View Post
    I think it's a bit short-sighted to say that everyone who likes Reflections should leave this community.
    Good point

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