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Thread: Scar is NOT the problem!

  1. #101
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    Regarding random solving, many other people and myself are ''working'' on it. Mime is coming along nicely, plus I got a nice data set for it today, so yeah! Mordaut sounds like a challenge, but I'm sure Iroki can help us with that, like he always does . Last I heard TrilEz (sp) was trying to work on prison pete.

    So every thing's looking good, nonetheless progress has been made.

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    Challenge is less than color. (Ya so? Some people [like you] don't want the challenge).

    Effectiveness is less than Java Bots. How is that? And by using reflection we basically are a 'java bot'.

    Well, maybe an entire SRL java include didn't happen before, but maybe that's just because it was too much HARD WORK for you reflection lovers, you can do it if you want, no one is stopping you.

    And even if it was to happen, the issue of using Pascal for something Java is made for makes it less effective no matter what.
    OK THEN WHAT THE FRACK DO YOU WANT FROM US?! Every flippin thing we say you keep shooting down!

    ☼Color is slow worse ineffective and too hard it's ancient
    ☼Java is the best its so much cooler and faster and all randoms are solved and its newschool
    ☼I want reflection back
    ☼BUT even if reflection is back, SRL still is worse and less effective than java bots
    Ok, maybe SRL can't satisfy all of your needs and wants, no matter what?!
    Maybe the SRL philosophy inst the same as yours, and that's ok! Lets just leave it at that!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tad View Post
    The using pascal as java issue and the lack of suitable leadership for what would essentially be nearly a whole new bot (resulting in a less stable include). Basically most of the reasons that have been thrown against me for the first part of the thread.
    I don't understand.

    How come "SRL's Reflection is Effectiveness is less than Java Bots"?

    It's much better in the hands of the SRL community even if it's a rigged plugin.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RAM View Post
    Why don't you and Camaro fix it , then Lead the way ? It was your suggestion after all ...
    Well first of all I wouldn't know how (of course, I could take the time to learn it). Second of all you guys have convinced me that it's not worth it.

    Quote Originally Posted by YoHoJo View Post
    Challenge is less than color. (Ya so? Some people [like you] don't want the challenge).

    Effectiveness is less than Java Bots. How is that? And by using reflection we basically are a 'java bot'.
    Posts by devs and admins throughout the thread explain that. I don't know the specifics, but logically, it makes sense that a pascal bot wouldn't be able to manipulate Java as well as a Java bot. And no, by using reflection you are a pascal bot trying to be a Java bot.

    Well, maybe an entire SRL java include didn't happen before, but maybe that's just because it was too much HARD WORK for you reflection lovers, you can do it if you want, no one is stopping you.
    I'm losing you here... I have since changed my opinion and have concluded SRL reflection isn't worth it.

    OK THEN WHAT THE FRACK DO YOU WANT FROM US?! Every flippin thing we say you keep shooting down!
    My opinion and questions have changed throughout the course of the thread. At first I figured SRL would benefit (in a botting aspect) from a move to reflection. Then I realized you don't want to benefit in a botting aspect. Then I questioned why bother with reflection at all. I've concluded that it's not worth meddling with reflection in SRL. And no, I haven't shut everything down. My altered opinion is proof enough that I've been listening to what you guys have said.


    Ok, maybe SRL can't satisfy all of your needs and wants, no matter what?!
    Maybe the SRL philosophy inst the same as yours, and that's ok! Lets just leave it at that!
    Yes, you're right, it can't. At this point in time, all I want to know is why people bother with SRL reflection.

    One possible answer to that would probably be what IceFire is doing. Creating a script for the fun of it in color, then backing it up with reflection so that autoers can benefit. Nonetheless, probably less than 10% of reflection scripters actually do that. And so, I don't see the point in maintaining reflection if only one out of every 10 reflection scripters actually make use of the one scenario in which it is useful.

  5. #105
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    Yes, you're right, it can't. At this point in time, all I want to know is why people bother with SRL reflection.
    Because 'people' dont know java/pascal is easier, they know pascal better and they don't want to/have the time to learn java.

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    Quote Originally Posted by YoHoJo View Post
    Because 'people' dont know java/pascal is easier, they know pascal better and they don't want to/have the time to learn java.
    I suppose that is the real reason why people would do so. But, in the grand scheme of things, it doesn't make sense; you're probably not going to be able to create something amazing with SRL reflection. It would be more worth it to learn Java and do the same for a Java bot. Going from Scar/SRL scripting to something like Java/RSBot is not hard at all. After two weekends of making small scripts and watching some video tutorials, I was able to create a fine AIO Hunter for RSBot. Saving that one week of learning Java and limiting yourself to pseudo-Java reflection scripting doesn't seem worth it.

    EDIT: Time is not an issue; you'd be spending time making reflection scripts, which you could instead use to learn Java.

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    I didn't take the time to read the whole thread, but for the record I'm currently doing my RSBot crash course so I can bot even when SCAR/SRL dies on me
    I don't check this place often, sorry.

    Currently working on - Software Engineering degree. Thank you SRL for showing me the one true path

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cigue View Post
    I didn't take the time to read the whole thread, but for the record I'm currently doing my RSBot crash course so I can bot even when SCAR/SRL dies on me
    Or you could take an SRL crash course and learn to fix it yourself when it breaks, instead of just waiting for someone else to do it....


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    Quote Originally Posted by RAM View Post
    Or you could take an SRL crash course and learn to fix it yourself when it breaks, instead of just waiting for someone else to do it....
    Fix SRL/Reflection/SCAR : Tens, maybe hundreds of hours, sometimes impossible if the problem has to do with SCAR.
    Fix RSBot : Switch to SRL.

    I don't check this place often, sorry.

    Currently working on - Software Engineering degree. Thank you SRL for showing me the one true path

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    Quote Originally Posted by IceFire908 View Post
    I would still push towards mastering the art of hybrid color reflection, but it is a huge pain in the ass.
    Perhaps SRL 5 will help you there. It'll be more modular and you can very easily plug in antirandoms made w/ reflection.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Wizzup? View Post
    Perhaps SRL 5 will help you there. It'll be more modular and you can very easily plug in antirandoms made w/ reflection.
    Maybe, but entire reflection hybridization is a lot harder than I ever imagined... "true hybridization" will allow at any one moment for the script to knowingly switch between reflection and color (perhaps even have dynamic hooks updated from an online data base) the odds of the script catching a new game build during the middle of runtime is very low, and if it is successful there are so many things to take into account like... say I'm walking with color and I want to switch to tile walking or viseversa, I might not be in the correct spot. So the initial script mode switching is pretty impossible just one of the many difficulties you run into when trying to make an intelligent script that can utlize the full power of both reflection and color.

    @Tad, you never answered my question -.-

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cigue View Post
    Fix SRL/Reflection/SCAR : Tens, maybe hundreds of hours, sometimes impossible if the problem has to do with SCAR.
    Fix RSBot : Switch to SRL.

    and sometimes it's as simple as picking a new color, or moving the direction a few pixels


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    Quote Originally Posted by IceFire908 View Post
    @Tad, you never answered my question -.-
    I did. Refer to:

    Quote Originally Posted by n3ss3s View Post
    Will people fucking stop bitching about fixing reflection? If it was easy shit for anyone to be assed to do it, it would have been done, but the problem is you can't do client-hacking shit (although we are discussing copying what RSBot does) by learning a bit there and a bit there u need to learn Step 1 to learn Step 2 etc...

    Also,

    So are we driving on competing Java bots by using Java in-directly through plugins in PascalScript?
    Quote Originally Posted by Rasta Magician View Post
    Finally, n3ss has the best point. We'd be using a pascal interpreter with pluggins todo java stuff VS a java bot. RSBot would own us big time.

    ~RM
    That, in addition to the lack of leadership (someone who can do anything and everything in regards to it) in creating/maintaining Reflection.

    EDIT: However, I've realized that community is another reason people might wish to stay at SRL rather than move for a better scripting situation with a worse community. Therefore, it's simply a matter of personal priorities when deciding where to go. This means that I was wrong. I appreciate how this discussion was continued and not closed at reply 50 . Now I finally believe I understand the whole reflection versus color thing, and anyone who doesn't should take the time to read through this thread.
    Last edited by Runescapian321; 02-07-2010 at 10:20 PM.

  14. #114
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    Scar IS the problem. No offense to Freddy, but it is to unstable. Before I could run my bot for at least 20 hours, and now I cant make it past 5 hours until an exception pops out. I also changed my mind completely about reflection..

    You could go bring back reflection. It was fun when it was working. But I would use it as a failsafe over color.

    And in my opinion reflection/Java bots really messed up the game. Its just abuse, abuse, abuse since its so easy.

    What Srl needed was something different then Scar... And that is Simba. I hope it becomes very successful.
    Faith is an oasis in the heart which will never be reached by the caravan of thinking.

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    I read the first and last page, so if I missed something important, forgive me.

    Basically, in the first page lots of people were bitching about how reflection is the bestest. I remember someone said that a lot of members left because they didn't see a point in scripting anymore, I believe the reasoning was because reflection went down and nobody wanted to script colour anymore. From a first hand perspective from someone who left after reflection went down, I would know what went on in my mind during that time. SRL went through a lot of shit, and all of the nublets were bitching about the scripts not working anymore. Lots of colour was down at the time. There really wasn't a way to script at all. My working script could run for 24 hours straight, or something, back when it was a reflection script backed with colour, and then reflection went down, so I had to make it 100% colour. It would then run 5 hours or so maximum. Probably some of my errors, some of SRL's errors. Then the engine updated, and shit hit the fan.

    My script ended up not working because of all of the colours. I couldn't be bothered to fix all of my autocolouring, walking, banking, everything else, which would be hours upon hours of work, just to see it fail 10 minutes in because of a random, of which SRL stopped being able to solve. Once I had no reason to stay other than the community, I started realizing that the community was full of shit that I didn't want to be a part of. There was lots of drama going on, and tons of the devs bitched eachother out. Nobody in SSRL was happy with who was getting in, and who wasn't. All of the elite groups raged all the time, from what people told me. Then I got bitched out by staffers for expressing myself, and ended up saying bye bye to the community, for about 2 or 3 months.

    So, long story short, I don't think that many people left just because of that, but people did leave, and scripts didn't work. Not because of reflection going down..

    On this page (5), I started realizing that most people decided that reflection isn't really worth having, which makes me assume some shit went down when some of the staffers stepped up and acted mature about it. So I don't really understand, but apparently people think that a SCAR developed by a crack team (Wizzup? by the looks of it) and open sourced will be wayyyy better than the SCAR that we have. Yes, everyone knows SCAR right now is pretty shit, and everyone is looking forward to Simba, but everyone agreed that SCAR 2.15 was shit too, then Freddy came out with SCAR 3, and we all know where that got us. I'm just saying that I'm not going to believe how much better it is until it really happens.

    Someone can prove me wrong. I know that I'm unaware of anything since I haven't really done anything in 3 months. This is really my only worthwhile post since then, and I already broke the rules a fuck lot of times from swearing and being rude. People can flame me all they want for it, and staffs can edit the swears out if they want, but I do want to stay here this time. I like being involved in drama like this.

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  16. #116
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    Just update reflection like we use to last year. It was quick and easy. Just get one of the reflection devs to do that - RSbot did it, why can't we?
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    Quote Originally Posted by cycrosism View Post
    Just update reflection like we use to last year. It was quick and easy. Just get one of the reflection devs to do that - RSbot did it, why can't we?
    RSBot didn't do it, Qauters did. One person. You don't even know what you are talking about.

    There is a lot of ignorance in this thread. RSBot does not use reflection. They use the Byte Code Engineering Library, which is a java tool that allows them to manipulate the RS Client. That being said, stop comparing us to RSBot.
    Last edited by mormonman; 02-08-2010 at 02:52 AM.

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    I just hold on hope that the addition of mainstream OpenGL will make SRL scripting easier.
    I don't check this place often, sorry.

    Currently working on - Software Engineering degree. Thank you SRL for showing me the one true path

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    Quote Originally Posted by 3Garrett3 View Post
    I read the first and last page, so if I missed something important, forgive me.

    Basically, in the first page lots of people were bitching about how reflection is the bestest. I remember someone said that a lot of members left because they didn't see a point in scripting anymore, I believe the reasoning was because reflection went down and nobody wanted to script colour anymore. From a first hand perspective from someone who left after reflection went down, I would know what went on in my mind during that time. SRL went through a lot of shit, and all of the nublets were bitching about the scripts not working anymore. Lots of colour was down at the time. There really wasn't a way to script at all. My working script could run for 24 hours straight, or something, back when it was a reflection script backed with colour, and then reflection went down, so I had to make it 100% colour. It would then run 5 hours or so maximum. Probably some of my errors, some of SRL's errors. Then the engine updated, and shit hit the fan.

    My script ended up not working because of all of the colours. I couldn't be bothered to fix all of my autocolouring, walking, banking, everything else, which would be hours upon hours of work, just to see it fail 10 minutes in because of a random, of which SRL stopped being able to solve. Once I had no reason to stay other than the community, I started realizing that the community was full of shit that I didn't want to be a part of. There was lots of drama going on, and tons of the devs bitched eachother out. Nobody in SSRL was happy with who was getting in, and who wasn't. All of the elite groups raged all the time, from what people told me. Then I got bitched out by staffers for expressing myself, and ended up saying bye bye to the community, for about 2 or 3 months.

    So, long story short, I don't think that many people left just because of that, but people did leave, and scripts didn't work. Not because of reflection going down..

    On this page (5), I started realizing that most people decided that reflection isn't really worth having, which makes me assume some shit went down when some of the staffers stepped up and acted mature about it. So I don't really understand, but apparently people think that a SCAR developed by a crack team (Wizzup? by the looks of it) and open sourced will be wayyyy better than the SCAR that we have. Yes, everyone knows SCAR right now is pretty shit, and everyone is looking forward to Simba, but everyone agreed that SCAR 2.15 was shit too, then Freddy came out with SCAR 3, and we all know where that got us. I'm just saying that I'm not going to believe how much better it is until it really happens.

    Someone can prove me wrong. I know that I'm unaware of anything since I haven't really done anything in 3 months. This is really my only worthwhile post since then, and I already broke the rules a fuck lot of times from swearing and being rude. People can flame me all they want for it, and staffs can edit the swears out if they want, but I do want to stay here this time. I like being involved in drama like this.
    Win

  20. #120
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    not that much has been keeping it down for so long. it's not like runescape has made it impossible to use reflection. it's been down for so long because there is no one with enough java knowledge that's willing to update the hooks. all that stops us from using reflection is a person with the knowledge/time/motivation to do it. if it ever gets working again then it is surely the dominant method

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    Quote Originally Posted by mormonman View Post
    RSBot didn't do it, Qauters did. One person. You don't even know what you are talking about.

    There is a lot of ignorance in this thread. RSBot does not use reflection. They use the Byte Code Engineering Library, which is a java tool that allows them to manipulate the RS Client. That being said, stop comparing us to RSBot.
    Yes, but that still needs hooks from the RS client, which is exactly what reflection needs
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    Quote Originally Posted by cycrosism View Post
    Yes, but that still needs hooks from the RS client, which is exactly what reflection needs
    Exactly and without his hooks in the 1st place, there wouldnt be any reflection, until method came.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingarabian View Post
    method came.
    On a more serious note.....
    Seems like most of the main questions and concerns have been answered, everyone new READ THROUGH THE ENTIRE THREAD before saying things and bringing up arguments that have already been taken care of!

    I'm pretty happy this thread exists, lots of great points from both sides of the spectrum and everything in between. A great thread (if summarized and organized) for all new comers to read and learn from to know what everyone is all about!

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    Quote Originally Posted by gn8771 View Post
    not that much has been keeping it down for so long. it's not like runescape has made it impossible to use reflection. it's been down for so long because there is no one with enough java knowledge that's willing to update the hooks. all that stops us from using reflection is a person with the knowledge/time/motivation to do it. if it ever gets working again then it is surely the dominant method
    Updating hooks is pretty easy. It's the function that has to be fixed. Jagex has removed some fields so now someone has to find new ways to do things.

    J_Pizzle and I are attempting to fix reflection atm. The thing that we are stuck on is fixing TileToMS and TileToMM. Once those functions have been fixed, it should be a breeze to fix everything else.

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    Why dont we just update the hooks for reflection then? Or get them from quarterz?
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