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Thread: Scar is NOT the problem!

  1. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3Garrett3 View Post
    I may be the only one, but if the idea becomes "Do this work in this timeframe, or get out", I will be choosing the getting out.

    SRL is a community, not a business. I'm personally not here to "Beat jagex" or whatever. But as I've said, I may be the only one. I wouldn't mind hearing the opinions of others on the subject, whether they are for or against either doing work or getting kicked out.
    Again, if you had been following recent development you had seen that Simba is close to reality; which means we can then make the next step.



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  2. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimthesoundman View Post
    The real problem is this is just a collection of individuals, not an organization. The true solution is to make this into a "programming army" and assign each member a task he has to complete if he wants to remain part of the organization.

    And if that happens, each worker bee will contribute his own little bit of pollen, not enough to stand on his own, but once the queen assembles the component parts, then you have a kick ass script.

    Here's what I would do if I was boss:
    1. Find out who is really contributing to the site. Eliminate those who don't contribute.
    2. Assign ranks as trainee, programmer, advanced programmer, and manger.
    3. Pick a project, for instance a farming script.
    4. Assign a collection of people to make the script.
    5. A team of three or four would be responsible for walking/teleporting between farming sites.
    6. Another team would be responsible for the raking/prepping/fertilizing.
    7. Another team would be responsible for a routine which fills the compost bin.
    8. Another team would be responsible for checking/maintaining/plant cure/amulet of nature.
    9. Another team would be responsible for harvesting and banking.
    10. You would need to replicate the process between different types of farming patches.

    So if each team had three members, and each team has a week to come up with their one function or module, then in a week the manager would have all the raw components finished. All he would have to do is assemble them into the main loop. Repeat every week and soon you would have dozens of scripts.

    This hypothetical farming script would take five teams of three members, or 15 members, plus one or two managers. Managers would keep the teams on task and focused on the end result without getting sidetracked.

    So in a week 17 people could assemble a kick ass farming script. That is the way REAL BUSINESSES WORK! If we need to defeat Jagex, which has 5 million dollars income every month and a staff of 400, we need to quit acting like "L33T hakerzzzz" 12 year olds and get organized.

    Organization is the key. Right now there are two or three people who are carrying 75% of the weight, and that's not right. Of course, part of this may be paranoia on their part but I'm not qualified to comment on that. If they read this they will know who they are. Maybe those folks need to open the blinds a bit and let other people see what they are doing or they will burn out and the whole SCAR/SRL will collapse like a house of cards. Just my humble opinion.

    JIM
    Seems very communist/dictatorial-like, if you ask me.

    I, personally, don't have much against actual communism (the communism that Marx and whoever the co-author was envisioned), but I'm sure most people wouldn't prefer it. And I see quite a few major flaws.

    1. This is the Internet. We've no way of making sure people are doing their work; they can simply just stop, which may lead to more people abruptly stopping their work, resulting in a domino effect.
    2. You cannot force people to go on their computers and script. This is not a job, business, or anything similar. This, again, is the Internet. People may come and go as they please.
    3. Persons contributing to a single script (and the managers) have other, possibly paying, jobs and responsibilities that will be more important to him than cheating in a game for teenagers.
    4. Not every part of the script would go together. For example, walking/teleporting may interfere with banking, as one has to be called for the other to work, which could throw off the already made procedures/functions, thus making that teams work useless and a waste of time.

    I could think of some more, but I think you get the point.

    Nothing wrong with the idea, but I fear that you've forgotten to take human nature into the equation.

  3. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wizzup? View Post
    Again, if you had been following recent development you had seen that Simba is close to reality; which means we can then make the next step.
    What does that have to do with anything he said? He was talking about SRL turning into what was posted by jim, nothing to do with SIMBA.
    Just sayin'.
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    I am too lazy to quote people but:

    Why should color be eliminated, even a little bit??

    Color has lasted this community a long time. Eliminating color and focusing only on reflection would go against everything SRL stands for. For quite some time, SRL + Scar has been the best bot, despite RsBot's existence. So when you argue with each other, don't bring up RsBot, we're not here to compete with them. But, we all know SCAR has been a big epic failure, recently. That's why I refrain from scripting in that program. SCAR is a problem. But I wouldn't say the biggest problem. SRL has been lacking a LOT lately. The anti randoms especially.

    Also, I would like to point out, we have very few autoers compared to what we used to have. But the scripts are still coming, I simply think we need more advertising of the SRL community. I don't know how other bots get so much attention, but I know we don't.

    Reflection is good, but remember people, Reflection is not part of SRL.

    Anyways, that's my point of view on the situation. Feel free to criticize

    Edit: Another reason why I don't post scripts is because it sucks when nobody gives progress reports. I remember when Tad released his 3p1c AIO fisher and their were BARELY anybody using the script. That was a perfectly good script going to waste

    {offtopic}
    -from griff's link : "Scar pretends to leave but turns to attack Simba, resulting in a final duel. Simba triumphs over his uncle by flipping him over a low cliff. Scar survives the fall but finds himself surrounded by the now-resentful hyenas, who attack and devour him."

    Looks like SCAR is the coward aka the problem

    hmm i wonder who the hyenas are *cough* {/offtopic}
    Last edited by Smarter Child; 02-10-2010 at 01:07 AM.

  6. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smarter Child View Post
    Also, I would like to point out, we have very few autoers compared to what we used to have. But the scripts are still coming, I simply think we need more advertising of the SRL community. I don't know how other bots get so much attention, but I know we don't.

    <snip>

    Edit: Another reason why I don't post scripts is because it sucks when nobody gives progress reports. I remember when Tad released his 3p1c AIO fisher and their were BARELY anybody using the script. That was a perfectly good script going to waste
    The reason SRL doesn't have such a large user base is because, as brought up all throughout this thread, SRL does not focus on botting and raping Runescape. Most other botting communities do. Because SRL is not focused on such things, the quantity and variety of scripts and the effectiveness of SRL (or SCAR, as some of you might argue) itself is not up to par with other bots, and so not many people are drawn to here unless they're the type that wishes to learn to program and/or have an enjoyable (<- depends on the person) intellectual activity to participate in, rather than just rape RS or receive profit.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Smarter Child View Post
    lacking a LOT lately. The anti randoms especially.
    I completely disagree, as I find this to be 100% accurate:

    Quote Originally Posted by IceFire908 View Post
    I really disagree with the randoms solving being impossible, just look through Iroki plugin.dpr source file... anything can be done in color with enough skill. And as far as I've seen

    Lamp,Box ect.. - A high success rate
    Abyss - High success rate
    Evilbob - Since naum made his solver, a high success rate
    Beekeeper - High success rate
    Frog - A high success rate

    Demon - A good success rate
    Forester - A good success rate, probably a high one now with TriLez tweaking last night
    Molly - A good success rate
    Sandwich lady- A good success rate
    Leo - A good success rate

    Pillory - A good success rate, detecting if in the random still might need tweaking itself
    Pinball - A good success rate
    Quiz - A good success rate

    Maze - Alright, but needs tweaking from game update. Naum is on it
    Mime - Alright, but needs tweaking from game update. Naum is on it
    Mordaut - Needs tweaking from game update
    CapnArrav - Possible but needs tweaking from game update
    Certer - Works a good success rate, but it doesn't know when to exit, a small fix.

    Prison pete - You have 14 minutes before it blocks you out, I seriously doubt any bot out there has a reliable solver for this ATM.

    Tell me, what does rsbot have?
    Prove me wrong.
    Last edited by Wanted; 02-10-2010 at 02:25 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tad View Post
    SRL does not focus on botting Runescape.
    Yes it does
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    Quote Originally Posted by cycrosism View Post
    Yes it does
    That's taken out of context. What I meant by my post was that SRL values programming challenges more than raping RS.

    @IceFire

    I guess it's opinion, but IMO, having half of the randoms working about half the time or less (I'm assuming that that would apply to the faded green and below, correct me if I'm wrong), wouldn't be too efficient.
    Last edited by Runescapian321; 02-10-2010 at 01:59 AM.

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    A fair comparison to make would be that the people here would rather cut down a tree by hitting it repeatedly with a log instead of using a chain saw. It requires more skill and use of "advanced techniques" to get the exact same job done with the log, so they find it more fun.

    Personally, I'd rather just chainsaw it, but I'm not going to force my opinion upon others. Let people decide whether they want to get the job done well, or feel good about how they attempted to get the job done.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tad View Post
    That's taken out of context. What I meant by my post was that SRL values programming challenges more than raping RS.

    @IceFire

    I guess it's opinion, but IMO, having half of the randoms working about half the time or less (I'm assuming that that would apply to the faded green and below, correct me if I'm wrong), wouldn't be too efficient.
    I'd say more like

    90% 75% 50% 25% 0%

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    I never have understood all the angst over reflection. If you like it, great. If you don't, great. It seems to me that the biggest problem is that those who are deeply in love with reflection are basically just unhappy that so many others choose to code in color.

    I code exclusively in color, and always have. I've never learned reflection, and I still have never seen a SCAR script with reflection that's better than an equivalent color script.

    I've been waiting a long time for someone to prove me wrong and show that SCAR reflection is really that much better.

    I also don't buy the argument that SRL embracing color is the problem. If solving randoms with reflection was so easy, people would naturally be writing them into their own reflection scripts. We would have working reflection random solvers out there in the community. Remember that Wizzup wrote his own color Abyss solver for his own ess script back in the day, before having it added to SRL. But I haven't seen those appearing in reflection scripts either.

    So it all comes back to the beginning, with reflection fanboys basically just complaining that other people won't write leech-friendly reflection scripts for them to use.

    The fact that reflection is broken, and has been for months, while my old color script has been running solid with only minor tweaks for almost 4 years now says it all, as far as I'm concerned.
    Last edited by tarajunky; 02-10-2010 at 02:39 AM.


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    Can't we all just get along?
    I don't check this place often, sorry.

    Currently working on - Software Engineering degree. Thank you SRL for showing me the one true path

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    Quote Originally Posted by tarajunky View Post
    I never have understood all the angst over reflection. If you like it, great. If you don't, great. It seems to me that the biggest problem is that those who are deeply in love with reflection are basically just unhappy that so many others choose to code in color.

    I code exclusively in color, and always have. I've never learned reflection, and I still have never seen a SCAR script with reflection that's better than an equivalent color script.

    I've been waiting a long time for someone to prove me wrong and show that SCAR reflection is really that much better.

    I also don't buy the argument that SRL embracing color is the problem. If solving randoms with reflection was so easy, people would naturally be writing them into their own reflection scripts. We would have working reflection random solvers out there in the community. Remember that Wizzup wrote his own color Abyss solver for his own ess script back in the day, before having it added to SRL. But I haven't seen those appearing in reflection scripts either.

    So it all comes back to the beginning, with reflection fanboys basically just complaining that other people won't write leech-friendly reflection scripts for them to use.

    The fact that reflection is broken, and has been for months, while my old color script has been running solid with only minor tweaks for almost 4 years now says it all, as far as I'm concerned.
    Although this thread is past even contemplating the idea of using something other than color, I beg to differ with your statement.

    • There are no color scripts to even compare to some reflection scripts that have been made: AIO Fisher, multiple AIO Miners, AIO Fighter (Narcle's, he himself stated the reflection one was much better than his color one), etc. The sheer magnitude of what can be made with reflection often thwarts color
    • As for the randoms, save for a relatively small amount of Devs who created one or two reflection scripts, nobody can even remotely relate to Wizzup's scripting capabilities, so naturally he can probably accomplish more with less (if not accounting for time). Otherwise, if I recall correctly, there was a build up of reflection anti randoms built to the point where some people were preferring them to the point of using them over Color Antirandoms. Note that these were made by simply good scripters, but not SRL elite.
    • Reflection is broken not because it cannot be fixed, but because, as was decided in this thread, SRL does not wish to focus on it, and there is nobody with the knowledge/drive/etc. to single-handedly bring it back
    • In addition, SRL's reflection was incomplete and buggy due to lack of consistent maintenance and personnel to keep it running, keeping limitations on it even when it was stable


    Again, I'm not advocating SRL to add reflection anymore, just stating my opinion on the inapplicable topic at hand.
    Last edited by Runescapian321; 02-10-2010 at 03:06 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by YoHoJo View Post
    Agreed, SCAR is not really the problem, we just need to be patient, nothing's 100% functional all the time, and Freddy is a busy man. This isn't some SCAR Vs Simba stuff, its just an alternative option, and open source like many people want. PEOPLE create the rivalry between the two. No problem here just two programs, friendly 'competition'
    But its not a friendly competition and its not an alternative option. Well it may be at the moment i guess if someone was willing to brave the untested and make a real script with Simba, but in the future it wont be just an alternative so there wont be competition unless someone does something.

    As for reflection, Dan agrees with tarajunky/others. Its not really as if reflection was shunned, more like certain people didnt want to use it and didnt. Then it never got updated and done. Why bother glorifying something and complaining it doesnt work/why its not supported if you aren't the one thats going to be making it work.
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    I've never had an urge to have my army fish at every possible location around Runescape during a script run, but maybe that's just me. But I have used some great fishing scripts that did one thing well. I've never had the urge to go find a random monster and camp it just because I can. But I have killed millions of chickens and collected tens of millions of feathers. I've also never had the desire to mine every possible rock at every possible location. But I have trained an army of ~20 characters to 85+ Mining by harvesting and banking iron.

    It may be more convenient (i.e. leech friendly) to have a single script that can do a lot of different things, but my preference is to have a script that does one thing extremely well. LAME could only claim free runes and cast them. It couldn't run all over the map, but it didn't need to. Zephyr's Yew cutter was full color, and it was able to bank, navigate between 4 different yew trees, predict when they would repop, etc, it was essentially flawless. It couldn't go chop Yews elsewhere, but there was no reason whatsoever for it to do so.

    Naturally, there are certain areas that a reflection script would shine, such as a Tut Island runner, or a quest runner. But I never really saw anyone bother to create those things.

    My chickenkiller can only kill chickens at the Lumbridge pen. Maybe someone would like to go kill them south of Falador or in the Hero's Guild. But at that point it becomes a matter of someone else being upset that my script is not catered to them, as I said before. If people are upset that I chose to write a script using color that can't kill chickens where they want it to, that's their problem. Most people are happy to see and learn from and perhaps even run a script that is posted by someone. The code's all there for anyone to tweak and cater as they see fit, but it's easier to complain about what others do or don't do than to create something.

    Just my opinion...


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    Quote Originally Posted by tarajunky View Post
    I've never had an urge to have my army fish at every possible location around Runescape during a script run, but maybe that's just me. But I have used some great fishing scripts that did one thing well. I've never had the urge to go find a random monster and camp it just because I can. But I have killed millions of chickens and collected tens of millions of feathers. I've also never had the desire to mine every possible rock at every possible location. But I have trained an army of ~20 characters to 85+ Mining by harvesting and banking iron.

    It may be more convenient (i.e. leech friendly) to have a single script that can do a lot of different things, but my preference is to have a script that does one thing extremely well. LAME could only claim free runes and cast them. It couldn't run all over the map, but it didn't need to. Zephyr's Yew cutter was full color, and it was able to bank, navigate between 4 different yew trees, predict when they would repop, etc, it was essentially flawless. It couldn't go chop Yews elsewhere, but there was no reason whatsoever for it to do so.

    Naturally, there are certain areas that a reflection script would shine, such as a Tut Island runner, or a quest runner. But I never really saw anyone bother to create those things.

    My chickenkiller can only kill chickens at the Lumbridge pen. Maybe someone would like to go kill them south of Falador or in the Hero's Guild. But at that point it becomes a matter of someone else being upset that my script is not catered to them, as I said before. If people are upset that I chose to write a script using color that can't kill chickens where they want it to, that's their problem. Most people are happy to see and learn from and perhaps even run a script that is posted by someone. The code's all there for anyone to tweak and cater as they see fit, but it's easier to complain about what others do or don't do than to create something.

    Just my opinion...
    As you say, it's a difference of opinion. My opinion is, different people have different reasons for wanting to perform tasks at different places because of their different priorities (some examples: crowded areas and vice versa, exp vs gp, difference in levels resulting in different places being more effective) , so I would choose to accommodate all of them. And, I personally choose to help leechers in any reasonable way. As for examples like Narcle's fighters, they were both essentially AIO. Yet, the reflection one was more effective than the color one. I believe that the main difference when comparing color and reflection is the fact that generally less experienced coders are likely to use reflection and the master coders are likely to use color, resulting in an unfair comparison in the end.

    EDIT: @IceFire - So my post before yours used accurate assumptions
    Last edited by Runescapian321; 02-10-2010 at 03:53 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tad View Post

    EDIT: @IceFire - So my post before yours used accurate assumptions
    Maybe, but I doubt their Leo, Evil Bob, Beekeeper, or Abyss, can compare to ours.

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    Quote Originally Posted by IceFire908 View Post
    Maybe, but I doubt their Leo, Evil Bob, Beekeeper, or Abyss, can compare to ours.
    I wasn't comparing to RSBot. I was just saying what Smarter Child said wasn't unjustified seeing as antirandoms will probably fail about 50% of the time.

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    I'll make you guys a deal. I'll help set up a specialized reflection integrated fork after SIMBA and SRL5 are complete and reflection is fixed, if you guys stop making these threads that always end up the same.

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    Quote Originally Posted by IceFire908 View Post
    Reflection hasn't been shunned by anyone since it was first introduced by a person named solarwind, it was widely embraced after SMART supported it.
    GTFO I wrote the reflection part (and vast majority of the rest) of KYAB and the updater. In fact, I was the first person to use reflection proper and not just grabbing fields with bytecode injection.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BenLand100 View Post
    GTFO I wrote the reflection part (and vast majority of the rest) of KYAB and the updater. In fact, I was the first person to use reflection proper and not just grabbing fields with bytecode injection.
    True, solar was a bad political move nonetheless.

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    Quote Originally Posted by IceFire908 View Post
    True, solar was a bad political move nonetheless.
    Well maybe "good political moves" should do some thinking and ask the right questions. Solarwind did, after all, basically say "Hey, I'm writing a bot. Have you ever thought of interfacing java with scar" and I responded "Yes, what do you know about the client" and he responded "Well, I'm learning java" and I lol'd for a while, gave him some pointers, got interested, and wrote the damn thing. So yea, THIS WHOLE THING IS MY FAULT *tosses the golden apple of discord that is reflection*

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    Let's leave it here, ok?
    SRL is a Library of routines made by the SRL community written for the Program Simba.
    We produce Scripts for the game Runescape.

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    =( Disagree. We are all just talking about a widely debated subject, this thread contains HEAPS of great information for EVERYONE with questions on the topic. Let more questions be asked and answered! We're all still playing nice.

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