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Thread: SRL vs Reflection?

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    Default SRL vs Reflection?

    I have been wondering, I have seen SRL and Reflection used in multiple scripts, what are the differences? I have read that Reflection handles randoms better, and banking better?

    Should I be using both in my scripts?
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    SRL handles common botting functions - for example, logging in or selecting a menu item.

    Reflection can be used to improve some of these functions - for example, finding objects or walking.

    You can do everything with SRL, reflection just makes some things easier.
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    Reflection is better.. but if hooks get outdated, you wont be able to run the script until someone like pyro updates it.. Or whoever has an updater.. Coloured scripts (srl), can be used any time.. but if colours or bitmaps change, you must then update those..

    Both have their ups and downs.. I consider myself reflection user to the max but in some cases I use srl includes where reflection cannot work.. such examples:

    Yeah I got the tile for an object using reflection.. but there is no such thing as R_ClickObject.. so I have to use SRL to find the colour on that tile to click the object.. get it? (Opening a door is the perfect example)

    or the other way around would be: Yeah I'm trying to use colour but none of the colours are unique.. they all look the same and it wont find the object using bitmaps or dtm's.. so I use reflection to get the tile the object or whatever.. and then click that.. (Monkey bars at ape atoll is the perfect example)

    NPC finding is much faster and easier in reflection.. matter of fact, almost everything is way faster in reflection... and more accurate except in the cases I stated..
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    Thanks for the fast reply, so reflection is what actually does the map walking (I was wondering how it was so precise)
    So how does reflection get the data from the client?

    This is going to help my script so much

    One final question, any good guides on how to include and get started with Reflection?
    Last edited by theheretic; 04-26-2011 at 04:23 AM.
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    Map walking can be done perfectly well in color, but it is involved at best and very tough at worst. One might consider it an art.
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    http://villavu.com/forum/showthread.php?t=62978

    Good post about reflection/client stuff in general, by Echo_.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ggzz View Post
    Reflection is better..
    Opinionated statement

    Quote Originally Posted by ggzz View Post
    Yeah I got the tile for an object using reflection.. but there is no such thing as R_ClickObject.. so I have to use SRL to find the colour on that tile to click the object.. get it? (Opening a door is the perfect example)
    Err you know that just because there isn't a function for it, doesn't mean you can't do it? Be pr0 and use TileToMS to find a point to click on the screen. Be sure and do an uptext check though.

    (OT @Ref devs: Model clicking would be nice though RRL has/had it, so I know it's possible with our current utilities)

    Quote Originally Posted by ggzz View Post
    or the other way around would be: Yeah I'm trying to use colour but none of the colours are unique.. they all look the same and it wont find the object using bitmaps or dtm's.. so I use reflection to get the tile the object or whatever is on.. and then click that.. (Monkey bars at ape atoll is the perfect example)
    No 2 items have the same image, except maybe like beer in kegs (image doesn't change). And advanced color methods could find the monkey bars on the agility course easily - you just have to know how to use color. Color can do everything reflection can, and I'm willing to prove it (besides things that color inherently cannot do, e.g. get stats without going to stats tab or gear without going to gear tab).


    My thoughts:
    I think both have their uses. I usually prefer color, but with (optional) reflection backup functions. There are only 2 things that Reflection is 100% the best choice for: ground items and grabbing information that is not visible on the screen. In any other situation, both color and reflection can do ANYTHING the other can. Reflection is just more simpler and doesn't take as much logic or skill as color.

    Edit:
    Quote Originally Posted by theheretic View Post
    Thanks for the fast reply, so reflection is what actually does the map walking (I was wondering how it was so precise)
    So how does reflection get the data from the client?

    This is going to help my script so much

    One final question, any good guides on how to include and get started with Reflection?
    Map walking can be done with color just as accuratley. Check out SPS (SRL Positioning System), a walking system using 100% color (bitmaps) written by Marpis that is just as effective as Reflection walking (so I've heard?). Reflection uses functions that come with smart to read information going in, out, and through the client during runtime. To include Reflection, or any include for that matter, put {$i <include path>\File.FileExtension} near the top of the script. E.g. {$i Reflection\Reflection.Simba}
    There are tutorials in the Reflection Tutorial section of the forums. Although it may be outdated, Cstrike's tutorial gives a good explanation and can still be used if you just look at the current include files to see what functions do the same thing.
    Last edited by TomTuff; 04-26-2011 at 04:26 AM.

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    Yes I know I can use TileToMSEx but I was only trying to give an example.. Guess there is none.. I usually use colour for doors..


    No 2 items have the same image
    ^ did not say that.. I said if images change.. such as when the herbs changed.. you had to make new bitmaps for each herb..

    And advanced color methods could find the monkey bars on the agility course easily - you just have to know how to use color. Color can do everything reflection can, and I'm willing to prove it.
    ^ please do.. Monkey bars at ape atoll is extremely hard.. Haven't seen anyone attempt this in colour.. Enoyhs had a hard time doing this.. If Im correct he is a member and has created every agility script that this site has owned.. And as far as I know.. you cannot make a dtm of those monkey bars or even a bitmap as it wont work at all.. the script will not distinquish the difference between that and the floor.. The Colours are ALMOST EXACTLY the same.. if not the same.. + Smart only runs in safemode which makes it even more difficult to distinguish the difference.


    Reflection is just more simpler and doesn't take as much logic or skill as color.
    ^I know its your thoughts but mine says: that isn't true.. colour doesn't take more skill.. Yes reflection is simpler but they both require the same skill.. Colour is just more work is all..
    Last edited by Brandon; 04-26-2011 at 04:36 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TomTuff View Post
    Opinionated statement


    Err you know that just because there isn't a function for it, doesn't mean you can't do it? Be pr0 and use TileToMS to find a point to click on the screen. Be sure and do an uptext check though.

    (OT @Ref devs: Model clicking would be nice though RRL has/had it, so I know it's possible with our current utilities)



    No 2 items have the same image, except maybe like beer in kegs (image doesn't change). And advanced color methods could find the monkey bars on the agility course easily - you just have to know how to use color. Color can do everything reflection can, and I'm willing to prove it (besides things that color inherently cannot do, e.g. get stats without going to stats tab or gear without going to gear tab).


    My thoughts:
    I think both have their uses. I usually prefer color, but with (optional) reflection backup functions. There are only 2 things that Reflection is 100% the best choice for: ground items and grabbing information that is not visible on the screen. In any other situation, both color and reflection can do ANYTHING the other can. Reflection is just more simpler and doesn't take as much logic or skill as color.

    Edit:

    Map walking can be done with color just as accuratley. Check out SPS (SRL Positioning System), a walking system using 100% color (bitmaps) written by Marpis that is just as effective as Reflection walking (so I've heard?). Reflection uses functions that come with smart to read information going in, out, and through the client during runtime. To include Reflection, or any include for that matter, put {$i <include path>\File.FileExtension} near the top of the script. E.g. {$i Reflection\Reflection.Simba}
    There are tutorials in the Reflection Tutorial section of the forums. Although it may be outdated, Cstrike's tutorial gives a good explanation and can still be used if you just look at the current include files to see what functions do the same thing.
    Thanks for pointing me in the right direction and giving me some ideas
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    Quote Originally Posted by ggzz View Post
    If Im correct he is a member and has created every agility script that this site has owned..
    Not true

    I know its your thoughts but mine says: that isn't true.. colour doesn't take more skill.. Yes reflection is simpler but they both require the same skill.. Colour is just more work is all..
    Skill factors into the creation any script, but color scripts add an entire new realm of skill that is required.
    Last edited by Smartzkid; 04-26-2011 at 04:38 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ggzz View Post
    ^I know its your thoughts but mine says: that isn't true.. colour doesn't take more skill.. Yes reflection is simpler but they both require the same skill.. Colour is just more work is all..
    You just named a time when it would take extreme skill to solve something in color, name something like that which a reflection scripter has to deal with, please?
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    [QUOTE=Smartzkid;801837]Not true

    umm Point one out.. because Train/Timer is banned.. And his script doesnt work.. Guess it isnt valid? or does it count still?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ogre View Post
    You just named a time when it would take extreme skill to solve something in color, name something like that which a reflection scripter has to deal with, please?

    *sigh* dont wanna argue this.. BUT.. Please tell me what skill would I have to learn to do it in colour.. Riddle me that.. There is NO new skill.. Like I said.. it takes MORE TIME. Time is the key word. anyone can click a colour picker and choose a colour.. Finding a unique colour wont be any SKILL either..

    This is probably why I will never have an orange name.. most people are colour script biased.. just because you spend more time and do more work doesn't necessarily make it a new skill or make it harder.

    Edit: Didnt wanna make a new post.. I dont need the post count.

    Do you seriously think that all object finding in color scripts strictly follows the same template of the generic TPA/ATPA finding? lul.

    It's not just more time, you often have to completely rethink how you're going to attempt something multiple things, doing things you never learned in tutorial or whatever.
    ^ Doesn't make it a new skill.. A little extra thinking = more time.. A little extra thinking != harder as the functions are already provided to you and are already there.. Every script your write has to have some re-thinking.. Maybe an easier way? maybe a better way? Maybe the old way wont work? Maybe, just maybe some functions don't exist.. No new skill here..

    Also, I wouldn't vote no in a script because it has reflection, as I think you are able to display enough skill to get SRL Members with one, because the standards for getting members isn't that high.
    ^Thumbs up on that because, that sir is rare (judging from the debates I've seen before on topics like this)..
    Last edited by Brandon; 04-26-2011 at 04:59 AM.
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    I suppose there would be better threads in which to debate.

    My final comment is that my experience with object finding in RS helped my do real world object finding with OpenCV. Even if color had no benefits, I'd still use it because it helps me learn concepts that apply elsewhere.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ggzz View Post
    *sigh* dont wanna argue this.. BUT.. Please tell me what skill would I have to learn to do it in colour.. Riddle me that.. There is NO new skill.. Like I said.. it takes MORE TIME. Time is the key word. anyone can click a colour picker and choose a colour.. Finding a unique colour wont be any SKILL either..

    This is probably why I will never have an orange name.. most people are colour script biased.. just because you spend more time and do more work doesn't necessarily make it a new skill or make it harder.
    Do you seriously think that all object finding in color scripts strictly follows the same template of the generic TPA/ATPA finding? lul.

    It's not just more time, you often have to completely rethink how you're going to attempt something multiple things, doing things you never learned in tutorials or whatever.

    Also, I wouldn't vote no in a script because it has reflection, as I think you are able to display enough skill to get SRL Members with one, because the standards for getting members isn't that high. I'm not positive, but I'd guess that the same % of color and reflection scripts are denied.
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    It blows me away that people still try to get reflection judged just as color is in member apps, tbh.. It's an SRL membership application, not a reflection membership application. Reflection isn't part of the include, albeit it's a fine tool in some occasions (I still see no reason to use reflection for anything in an actual useful script over color, but that's sorta irrelevant).

    But anyway, I'd say reflection is more useful if you just wanna spend a little bit of time and have something that works. The reason I don't use it (well, didn't; I don't script or anything anymore) is just because it goes against my idea of what scripting/programming/this community is about. When RT5 came out, I'd say reflection was a good thing, because it took time and thought and puzzle solving to get reflection back up and running. But beyond that, there's not a whole lot of learning to be done there, as hooks are grabbed automatically, and Jagex isn't doing a whole lot to combat it besides changing the hooks/IDs.

    But color, on the other hand, always has been (and always will be, imo) a very active learning process. If you look at when srl-forums first went public (I don't know a whole lot about when it was private), there were some very smart people working on SRL (and there still are). We've come a VERY long way since AutoRune, and also from SCAR. And I'm very happy to say that I see no end to it, until RS is no longer a game. SRL5 is up and coming, and to be very honest, there's not a whole lot of changes at all. But, SRL6 should be a whole new game changer. I'm sure libmml will be done by then, we'll be programming in Python, and in the SRL5 TODO, I even saw that some of my ideas were mentioned, and I may hop on board and redo my work for that, bringing in Gaussian mouse functions (not my idea, but it should be implemented in SRL5, afaik), anticipation (I've thought about this a lot for awhile, don't know if anyone's looked into it or done anything about it, but I think we could figure it out ), personalization of the include, etc. etc..

    And ideas won't just stop. We're a learning community. We'll continue to thrive in the color aspect, and reflection will be there as a more simplistic alternative for a number of things (walking, to be fair, as quite reliable, accurate, and easy to do in reflection, but that's not what SRL is about).

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    Quote Originally Posted by ggzz View Post
    ^ did not say that.. I said if images change.. such as when the herbs changed.. you had to make new bitmaps for each herb..
    When was the last time herb images changed? It was when they did a complete rehaul of herblore and got away from unidentified herbs. While this is just one example, my point stands: colors don't change often.

    Quote Originally Posted by ggzz View Post
    ^ please do.. Monkey bars at ape atoll is extremely hard.. Haven't seen anyone attempt this in colour.. Enoyhs had a hard time doing this.. If Im correct he is a member and has created every agility script that this site has owned.. And as far as I know.. you cannot make a dtm of those monkey bars or even a bitmap as it wont work at all.. the script will not distinquish the difference between that and the floor.. The Colours are ALMOST EXACTLY the same.. if not the same.. + Smart only runs in safemode which makes it even more difficult to distinguish the difference.
    It wouldn't be that hard - the bars are thin lines on standard detail, so a distance + < length check could do it (obviously a bit more complex than that). Enoyhs doesn't own every agility script on the site, off the top of my head I know both smurg and I have written agility scripts. DTMs and bitmaps aren't used for mainscreen finding often/ever.

    Quote Originally Posted by ggzz View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Smartzkid View Post
    Not true
    umm Point one out.. because Train/Timer is banned.. And his script doesnt work.. Guess it isnt valid? or does it count still?

    Mine, smurgs.
    Quote Originally Posted by ggzz View Post
    *sigh* dont wanna argue this.. BUT.. Please tell me what skill would I have to learn to do it in colour.. Riddle me that.. There is NO new skill.. Like I said.. it takes MORE TIME. Time is the key word. anyone can click a colour picker and choose a colour.. Finding a unique colour wont be any SKILL either..
    The only thing you've ever clicked is doors. There are other methods than just searching for a color.

    Quote Originally Posted by ggzz View Post
    This is probably why I will never have an orange name.. most people are colour script biased.. just because you spend more time and do more work doesn't necessarily make it a new skill or make it harder.
    1. This is a color based scripting community - that's what SRL is. We have a Reflection platform simply because it's what some people are more used to.
    2. Plenty of pure reflection scripts have gotten accepted.

    Quote Originally Posted by ggzz View Post
    ^ Doesn't make it a new skill.. A little extra thinking = more time.. A little extra thinking != harder as the functions are already provided to you and are already there.. Every script your write has to have some re-thinking.. Maybe an easier way? maybe a better way? Maybe the old way wont work? Maybe, just maybe some functions don't exist.. No new skill here..
    Being able to think in that more complex way alone is a skill itself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TomTuff View Post
    When was the last time herb images changed? It was when they did a complete rehaul of herblore and got away from unidentified herbs. While this is just one example, my point stands: colors don't change often.

    ^ IF your point stands, mine does aswell.. I said "IF bitmaps change or colours change"

    It wouldn't be that hard - the bars are thin lines on standard detail, so a distance + < length check could do it (obviously a bit more complex than that). Enoyhs doesn't own every agility script on the site, off the top of my head I know both smurg and I have written agility scripts. DTMs and bitmaps aren't used for mainscreen finding often/ever.

    ^Lemmie know when it comes up in the search bar as an agility script + the page and last time it was used/mentioned/commented on.. have yet to see it there.. and have yet to see any others working besides his and Timers/trains (outdated but works partially).



    The only thing you've ever clicked is doors. There are other methods than just searching for a color.

    ^Great assumption but I've written enough scripts in colour at freddy1990.com... Don't judge me just yet because I'm new here..

    1. This is a color based scripting community - that's what SRL is. We have a Reflection platform simply because it's what some people are more used to.
    2. Plenty of pure reflection scripts have gotten accepted.

    ^ if its a colour based community, then scar shouldn't even be dropped as its purely colour.. If a site supports reflection, it should also be accepted under equal terms and agreements.. Not biased and cast aside as if colour is better.. Strictly colour community wouldn't support something its not willing to accept on equal grounds.


    Being able to think in that more complex way alone is a skill itself.
    ^ Really? And since when is this a *Skill* for colour? As far as I know every script requires this "critical thinking".. When writing a script (Colour or reflection) The layout is important in both.. this critical thinking is activated in both.. not just colour alone.. I seem to be the only one standing on reflection's side battling a community of colour biased members that say they support reflection..
    This isnt a programming language in itself.. Your not comparing c++ to java or any other language.. Colour requires more work and time.. You can call it skills if you want but just recognize the difference between skill and more work. They both get the job done in a different way.. doesnt mean you have more skill than I because you used colour.. As far as I know, I did the exact same thing you did without wasting my time.. I still had to do critical thinking.. Just NOT AS MUCH.. <-- more work for u, less for me.
    Last edited by Brandon; 04-26-2011 at 05:48 AM.
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    Check mah post, ggzz. The skill comes in optimization and advances in color scripting, not so much the script itself (sadly).

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    Quote Originally Posted by ggzz View Post
    This isnt a programming language in itself.. Your not comparing c++ to java or any other language.. Colour requires more work and time.. You can call it skills if you want but just recognize the difference between skill and more work. They both get the job done in a different way.. doesnt mean you have more skill than I because you used colour.. As far as I know, I did the exact same thing you did without wasting my time.. I still had to do critical thinking.. Just NOT AS MUCH.. <-- more work for u, less for me.
    The argument isn't that color scripters have more skill >.> just that it takes more skill to script in color. A solely reflection scripter can have just as much/more skill as a color scripter, but its less likely that their skill will be shown in their scripts because reflection makes things very straightforward.
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    Color can achieve almost any ingame action that reflection can, it just requires more code and logic. I've been reading about the wizzyplugin lately, its insane what you can do with it. The part that makes color better in my opinion is the fact that reflection is fragile and needs to be updated after each new client revision. Jagex can update their game engine and client as much as they want and try to get rid of client hacking bots (which they easily could if they weren't complete dumbasses), but they will never be able to get rid of the one global thing in their game; and that is color. I mean seriously, what are they going to do, make the game black and white just to get rid of us? Color is a powerful tool, and it should be used and valued as such.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Echo_ View Post
    Color can achieve almost any ingame action that reflection can, it just requires more code and logic. I've been reading about the wizzyplugin lately, its insane what you can do with it. The part that makes color better in my opinion is the fact that reflection is fragile and needs to be updated after each new client revision. Jagex can update their game engine and client as much as they want and try to get rid of client hacking bots (which they easily could if they weren't complete dumbasses), but they will never be able to get rid of the one global thing in their game; and that is color. I mean seriously, what are they going to do, make the game black and white just to get rid of us? Color is a powerful tool, and it should be used and valued as such.
    Interesting note, if it were black and white, that would be much much easier for us, as long as it were understandable by a human.

    At least imo.

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    Had I know how bad this thread would be derailed I would not have made it
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