Fighting the bots - An update

[Drakan]

Would be nice to think that

I was thinking tho, IF runescape messes up the java bots, where will people look to bot again ? to get their fix. SRL will be a big target for leecher and then runescape will look at SRL as a threat and do what ever they can to squash us. I would prefer they just find out better ways of banning people using them (only made to cheat runescape bots) like RsBuddy/RsBot.

Quick! Close registrations and make everything private!!! :P

[Coh3n]

Anyways, I think it'd be a good idea to get in the habit of doing as much of our scripts as we can in color just incase something should happen to Reflection.

Plus SRL will eventually be able to run straight through updates (only if the script is 100% color obviously). I've been looking in to it lately, taked to BenLand100 and it is possible, I just need the knowledge to do so.

Would be nice to think that

I was thinking tho, IF runescape messes up the java bots, where will people look to bot again ? to get their fix. SRL will be a big target for leecher and then runescape will look at SRL as a threat and do what ever they can to squash us. I would prefer they just find out better ways of banning people using them (only made to cheat runescape bots) like RsBuddy/RsBot.

Banning people will help to a certain degree, but it won't make a big enough impact unless Jagex shuts down the source.

[Flight]

Would be nice to think that

I was thinking tho, IF runescape messes up the java bots, where will people look to bot again ? to get their fix. SRL will be a big target for leecher and then runescape will look at SRL as a threat and do what ever they can to squash us. I would prefer they just find out better ways of banning people using them (only made to cheat runescape bots) like RsBuddy/RsBot.

I'm for the idea of getting rid of reflection use all in all, I think it's worth it for everyone to lose it including us because we'll always have that upper hand to everyone else... with the exception or RID if anyone knows what that is.
We could, though, be more particular on which scripts we publicly release and which we would keep privately to the people who contribute. This will always keep out that 90% of user-base who just prefer plug-and-play.

Plus SRL will eventually be able to run straight through updates (only if the script is 100% color obviously). I've been looking in to it lately, taked to BenLand100 and it is possible, I just need the knowledge to do so.

I think Appa will play a serious roll in Rs botting should reflection permanently break. It's still minimizable, it's not just the RS client so we'd be loading Runescape through the browser. And because of this, we can check, by color, if Runescape has been updated and simply hit the refresh button or navigate through the main website to load another client. Tis very simple.

[Coh3n]

I think Appa will play a serious roll in Rs botting should reflection permanently break. It's still minimizable, it's not just the RS client so we'd be loading Runescape through the browser. And because of this, we can check, by color, if Runescape has been updated and simply hit the refresh button or navigate through the main website to load another client. Tis very simple.

Has anyone used Appa for Runescape? I've never used it personally, but if it's really as easy as you describe, maybe it could/should be used for 100% color scripts.

[Drakan]

I'm for the idea of getting rid of reflection use all in all, I think it's worth it for everyone to lose it including us because we'll always have that upper hand to everyone else... with the exception or RID if anyone knows what that is.
We could, though, be more particular on which scripts we publicly release and which we would keep privately to the people who contribute. This will always keep out that 90% of user-base who just prefer plug-and-play.

I think what you seem to be forgetting is how the other bot's aren't using reflection. They are using injection (except a couple of them), which is the one where you run into troubles, as you are modifying and redistributing the client. Reflection is 100% legal, so your argument to get rid of it completely is a bit silly.

[BraK]

Reflection reads client data only it in no way edits or changes it. Thus keeping us on the legal side. Ultimately everything here at SRL is legal...

~BraK

[Flight]

I think what you seem to be forgetting is how the other bot's aren't using reflection. They are using injection (except a couple of them), which is the one where you run into troubles, as you are modifying and redistributing the client. Reflection is 100% legal, so your argument to get rid of it completely is a bit silly.

I've always known RSBot was bcel, or atleast it was when I was around, but that was quite a while back. RsBuddy, reflection, those 'perfectious' bots, reflection, NeXus, I really don't know... Get rid of those alone and you've cut bots down by 85%.

[Drakan]

powerbot is indeed *injection* if I'm not mistaken. At any rate, our reflection is 100% legal, so it would be silly/stupid to get rid of it. I don't see your argument there.

[Awkwardsaw]

I've said this before, How hard would it be to make every tile, and id dynamic? They have dynamic tiles in MTA for sure, I don't see how they cant do it for the rest of rs

[Drakan]

I've said this before, How hard would it be to make every tile, and id dynamic? They have dynamic tiles in MTA for sure, I don't see how they cant do it for the rest of rs

It would still be too easy to get around that. As I was just telling Home about his ess miner: Just get an object thats always in the same spot, use it's tile to calculate your next move. Easy. As far as ID's being dynamic, don't think they could/would do that.

[Awkwardsaw]

It would still be too easy to get around that. As I was just telling Home about his ess miner: Just get an object thats always in the same spot, use it's tile to calculate your next move. Easy. As far as ID's being dynamic, don't think they could/would do that.

If the tiles change, how can you find the object? As far as reflection knows, the object has moved

[Drakan]

You don't find objects by the tile... You find them by the ID.

[Awkwardsaw]

You don't find objects by the tile... You find them by the ID.

And assume that id's are dynamic

[Smarter Child]

Is it possible for them to prevent Java bots from "hacking the client" ?

[Drakan]

They can't just make the Ids dynamic. But even if they did all you would need to do is check model points or something along those lines. All these what-if arguments wills do you no good since a lot of it they simply just won't do.

[Awkwardsaw]

They can't just make the Ids dynamic. But even if they did all you would need to do is check model points or something along those lines. All these what-if arguments wills do you no good since a lot of it they simply just won't do.

Enlighten me, please explain how it won't work. How different is it from dynamic tiles

[Drakan]

The reason they have dynamic tiles is because it's what's called an instance location. They have static locations such as the entire world map, and this allows for allthe users to be together in the world. If they sent you to an instance every time yOu logged on then you wouldn't be able to see anyone else. It just doesn't make sense that they would so that.

[senrath]

They could potentially change the tile IDs every day or so, though.

[pyroryan]

You're suggesting dynamic everything. Now, if it was dynamic everything, how would the client even know when you clicked something? If the location the object was on must have moved by the time you clicked it, I suppose the client thinks you're walking now...Very good, you've managed to shut down all bots. Color and reflection alike. Heck, even legit players can't play properly. (Obviously this is an exaggerated case of dynamicness)
The client still needs to have way ways to determine an event. Jagex can create new fields for identifying objects (they'll still need to be able to get information from the cache), but it means reflection can still get it...
If the client "knows" something, reflection can get it (provided its not a local field).

[Drakan]

You're suggesting dynamic everything. Now, if it was dynamic everything, how would the client even know when you clicked something? If the location the object was on must have moved by the time you clicked it, I suppose the client thinks you're walking now...Very good, you've managed to shut down all bots. Color and reflection alike. Heck, even legit players can't play properly. (Obviously this is an exaggerated case of dynamicness)
The client still needs to have way ways to determine an event. Jagex can create new fields for identifying objects (they'll still need to be able to get information from the cache), but it means reflection can still get it...
If the client "knows" something, reflection can get it (provided its not a local field).

This.

EDIT: @Flight: Current bots that use injection: powerbot, rsbuddy, runedev, and epicbot.

[GoF]

we have also taken steps to acquire the details of all players who have purchased bots.

Oh wow. I wonder how they're planning to get that information and what they're going to do with it. Didn't they already try to take down Impsoft and lost? Seems like the usual exaggerated Jagex bullshit that they pull out of their ass to keep legit players happy.

[BraK]

You're suggesting dynamic everything. Now, if it was dynamic everything, how would the client even know when you clicked something? If the location the object was on must have moved by the time you clicked it, I suppose the client thinks you're walking now...Very good, you've managed to shut down all bots. Color and reflection alike. Heck, even legit players can't play properly. (Obviously this is an exaggerated case of dynamicness)
The client still needs to have way ways to determine an event. Jagex can create new fields for identifying objects (they'll still need to be able to get information from the cache), but it means reflection can still get it...
If the client "knows" something, reflection can get it (provided its not a local field).

Nicely stated pyroryan Rep+

~BraK

[Flight]

You told me earlier Powerbot was reflection.

I guess I've misspoke then, not so much doing something about reflection but an obtained client that's directly loaded rather than through the Runescape website.

As far as Awkwardsaw's points, I can back him up in that. I've noticed in a few places both Object tiles and Object IDs are dynamic. Take the Abyss for example, say the ID for the crawl space (Agility) is... 4321 at tile 3200,4300..., the next time you enter the abyss that same tile might have no object at all, and that specific ID (4321) might be the ID for distraction eyes, so nothing is static, the only definite way to search for what you're looking for is Model ID's, if you can track those on the mini-map then that'd be great...

This is also done in the Livid Farm and I assume it's the same in the newly release Jadinko Lair.

[Drakan]

You told me earlier Powerbot was reflection.

I guess I've misspoke then, not so much doing something about reflection but an obtained client that's directly loaded rather than through the Runescape website.

As far as Awkwardsaw's points, I can back him up in that. I've noticed in a few places both Object tiles and Object IDs are dynamic. Take the Abyss for example, say the ID for the crawl space (Agility) is... 4321 at tile 3200,4300..., the next time you enter the abyss that same tile might have no object at all, and that specific ID (4321) might be the ID for distraction eyes, so nothing is static, the only definite way to search for what you're looking for is Model ID's, if you can track those on the mini-map then that'd be great...

This is also done in the Livid Farm and I assume it's the same in the newly release Jadinko Lair.

Right and like I said, those are Instances. That can exists within instances because its not the static "world of runescape." Outside an instance, find me a dynamic object.

EDIT: Also when did i tell you powerbot was reflection...

[Flight]

powerbot is indeed reflection if I'm not mistaken. At any rate, our reflection is 100% legal, so it would be silly/stupid to get rid of it. I don't see your argument there.

If we can't search by ID or Tile, how would we find them? Can we find an object on the mini-map by searching just for the model ID?