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Thread: Creationism in School?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yago View Post
    Your point. From a Biblical perspective, God could of used the Big Bang to create the universe and would fit perfectly into the Biblical account
    Then why isn't it stated in the Bible... have you even read the Bible. It states in 6 days (7th rested) that God created all things and was pleased with them. Nowhere, under any circumstance does the Bible mention the big bang.. so in what way does it fit into Biblical account? you arguing biblical perspectives is redundant on this topic.

    EDIT: @Echo
    Because a 1800 page book is a joke? Miracles and prophecies that cannot be reproduced is a joke? That is quite a sick joke in which I find NO humor

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    Quote Originally Posted by JOEbot View Post
    Then why isn't it stated in the Bible... have you even read the Bible. It states in 6 days (7th rested) that God created all things and was pleased with them. Nowhere, under any circumstance does the Bible mention the big bang.. so in what way does it fit into Biblical account? you arguing biblical perspectives is redundant on this topic.

    EDIT: @Echo
    Because a 1800 page book is a joke? Miracles and prophecies that cannot be reproduced is a joke? That is quite a sick joke in which I find NO humor
    I read the Bible alot.. There's a part that says (and I'm paraphrasing) a day is like a thousand years to God. Why can't those six days mean thousands(or millions) of years?
    "Logic never changes, just the syntax" - Kyle Undefined?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yago View Post
    I read the Bible alot.. There's a part that says (and I'm paraphrasing) a day is like a thousand years to God. Why can't those six days mean thousands(or millions) of years?
    "How many needless assumptions must be made, and how much contortion is required, to receive every new insight of science and manipulate it so as to 'fit' with the revealed words of ancient man-made deities?"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yago View Post
    I read the Bible alot.. There's a part that says (and I'm paraphrasing) a day is like a thousand years to God. Why can't those six days mean thousands(or millions) of years?
    I'm not a Bible maniac... not like the baptists, so I don't have that etched in my brain like barmistva. But it says in Genesis 1:1 "In the BEGINNING, God made the Heavens and the Earth." I know that much.
    Beginning- The point in time or space at which something starts.
    Google first result.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JOEbot View Post
    I'm not a Bible maniac... not like the baptists, so I don't have that etched in my brain like barmistva. But it says in Genesis 1:1 "In the BEGINNING, God made the Heavens and the Earth." I know that much.
    Beginning- The point in time or space at which something starts.
    Google first result.
    Does it tell you exactly how God made the Earth? Every single detail? According to the Bible, isnt it possible that God could have created the heaven and the earth (universe) through a Big Bang?
    "Logic never changes, just the syntax" - Kyle Undefined?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yago View Post
    Does it tell you exactly how God made the Earth? Every single detail? According to the Bible, isnt it possible that God could have created the heaven and the earth (universe) through a Big Bang?
    It says somewhere else in the Bible, and I too am paraphrasing, "Through the work of His hands he created..." don't remember the rest.
    You honestly believe a blast... or as you say, matter expansion created the Earth? So the same matter that makes up dirt is the building blocks of human beings? Most certainly women are not.. as God hand crafted women "He took a rib from Adam and created woman" So then how do you seperate the fact that God created us in His image... that would mean that women are more Godlike as men are just expanding matter and women are hand crafted? The intricate anatomy of a human being is much more complicated than expanding matter, and then why isn't that matter still expanding today? So how do we differ from animals... how do we get plants, animals, humans, metals, chemicals (to expand on chemicals- think about the whole chart of elements).
    The big bang is absolutely impossible and if it were important in the role of creation, wouldn't it be in the Bible... I've even read the non-canonized books and there is no MENTION of big bang, explosions- at the very most there is fire! You have quite a lot of maybes and ifs and possibilities to base your theory of evolution on, and I respect that.
    I find this argument quite edifying.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JOEbot View Post
    It says somewhere else in the Bible, and I too am paraphrasing, "Through the work of His hands he created..." don't remember the rest.
    So you are interpretting it literally and saying that He (with His hands) sculpted us in His image?
    With the work of His hands could mean anything. It could mean He existed physically and literally took His hands to make us or it could mean that he himself created us and no one else(His hands) or it could mean something else.
    Quote Originally Posted by JOEbot View Post
    You honestly believe a blast... or as you say, matter expansion created the Earth? So the same matter that makes up dirt is the building blocks of human beings?
    I never said I believed in it, first of all.

    Secondly, the Bible explains that God is all powerful and that leads me to believe that God could have created two particles (I'm not at all familiar with the specifics of the particles) and intelligently designed their collision so that the universe could be formed over x amount of years. If you deny that then you are going against the Bible's statement of God's omnipotence.

    Quote Originally Posted by JOEbot View Post
    Most certainly women are not..
    Read above.

    Quote Originally Posted by JOEbot View Post
    You have quite a lot of maybes and ifs and possibilities to base your theory of evolution on, and I respect that.
    I find this argument quite edifying.
    Thank-you and I respect that in you too. However, I never claimed to have believed in or against Evolution or the Big Bang (Two different things)...
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    But in the Bible it says he created the Earth in 6 days... with different things on different days. He wasn't just observing it happen as these particle(s?) expanded- it says on the 7th day he rested and saw it was good. Nothing is expanding today... I'm not familiar with particles either, but wouldn't the cell cycle be continuing on today? Like Telephase and Metaphase and such? I would be interested to hear some phrase that mentions or describes the big bang or expansion.

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    Wow you guys are still going at it.

    I'll come back in a month see if someone made any progress in their arguments lol.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sir eska eau View Post
    Wow you guys are still going at it.

    I'll come back in a month see if someone made any progress in their arguments lol.
    Did this guy get enough info on his paper yet?

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    Quote Originally Posted by JOEbot View Post
    Did this guy get enough info on his paper yet?
    He probably turned that in months ago

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    These discussions never end up in good places but I'll throw my two cents in here anyway as it's 2:30am and I cant sleep.

    It is impossible to use logical, reasoned arguments supported by facts as a means to convince people of anything. If convincing is needed in the first place then the possibility of 'winning' any such argument is impossible. Any whim of imagination or heresay can be used by people who have no understanding of logic to refute anything, no matter how well argued, presented or grounded in fact the answer may be.

    I'd have to first take these people back to grade school and explain the definition of a fact. From there on, everything stemming from an understanding of reality would have to be taught to these people to finally arrive at an explination of the stupidity embedded in all religious faith. I don't have that kind of time. Even if I did have that kind of time I stand to gain nothing in doing so; so why bother?

    There are enough intelligent people around to insulate me from the latter, which affords me a brilliant luxury.

    I don't want to turn this into ad hominen attack spam, so please don't take this personally Yago.
    I find these comment pretty hilarious:
    Quote Originally Posted by Yago View Post
    My view on this is that you cant teach something and leave out the other side to it.
    In that case schools should teach Greek mythology as a fervent beleif rather than as history, that the Sun revolves around the Earth in a perfect circle, that heaven is above us, hell is below us and filled with all the evil people of history and guarded by Cerberus and that the Flying Spaghetti Monster is real. How about teaching kids Old Testemate God instead of New Testimate, less asshole God? Or even teaching them about all of the chapters not included in modern day Bibles? Or the physical, historical inaccuracies in the Bible? Teach the Koran while you're at it too.

    I'm pretty sure I just pissed off a lot of people on these boards but I'm sure they're used to it as we're on the internet after all.

    And with that; it's bed time for me!

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    There's really no point really to argue about religion. It's a lost cause.

    As long as there is more than one person in the world ready to believe something without evidence and for no valid reason, religion will exist. It doesn't matter how much you argue with them, they will stick to it no matter what.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sir eska eau View Post
    There's really no point really to argue about religion. It's a lost cause.

    As long as there is more than one person in the world ready to believe something without evidence and for no valid reason, religion will exist. It doesn't matter how much you argue with them, they will stick to it no matter what.
    Everyone has a breaking point. Everyone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JOEbot View Post
    But in the Bible it says he created the Earth in 6 days... with different things on different days. He wasn't just observing it happen
    According to the old-earth view, then where the Bible records that he created the things, then those days are just marking time. Or he created the heavens and the earth first(via Big Bang), then once that whole process was done, he created everthing else(non Big Bang). I'm not to familiar, but the possibility is open. My point is that it is possible and it fits in with Biblical accounts.

    Quote Originally Posted by JOEbot View Post
    as these particle(s?) expanded- it says on the 7th day he rested and saw it was good. Nothing is expanding today... I'm not familiar with particles either, but wouldn't the cell cycle be continuing on today? Like Telephase and Metaphase and such? I would be interested to hear some phrase that mentions or describes the big bang or expansion.
    A while ago I think I read somewhere that the laws of thermodynamics(maybe the second law or something) describes entropy or that the universe is currently expanding, but I don't know specifics... Again I'm not to sure and I'm also confused as to what you mean by the cell cycle. As for phrases that mention or describe the big bang, if it really did occur then the Bible will not explicitly outline the term the Big Bang. Again the Bible doesn't really give a detailed account into creation other that what was created first/second... and who created it. The Bible does say (paraphrasing) that there are things not known to man and that man shall not know....

    Quote Originally Posted by rife View Post
    These discussions never end up in good places but I'll throw my two cents in here anyway as it's 2:30am and I cant sleep.

    It is impossible to use logical, reasoned arguments supported by facts as a means to convince people of anything. If convincing is needed in the first place then the possibility of 'winning' any such argument is impossible. Any whim of imagination or heresay can be used by people who have no understanding of logic to refute anything, no matter how well argued, presented or grounded in fact the answer may be.
    Well then, convince me to believe this.

    Quote Originally Posted by rife View Post
    In that case schools should teach Greek mythology ...
    Do you read every book published in the world in a literature class or only major authors/publications? In the same way, the referred to school classes should be held.
    Last edited by Yago; 04-19-2012 at 01:04 AM.
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    In my school bunch of people are doing intelligent design for their bio project which could be like any theory. I personally believe in creationism but I really dont care what other people believe when it comes to this. Its not one of the important things about Christianity

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