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Thread: No More Anti-Leech?

  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noob King View Post
    I think that is how every one learns, or expands what they know at least.
    all of my procedures are pretty much mutents of other peoples,they start out as a exact copy then evolve into something i made

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    Yes, the current guidelines will be updated and clarified.
    STOP PM'ING ME

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hobbit View Post
    Yes, the current guidelines will be updated and clarified.
    Thank-you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hobbit View Post
    Anti-leech only creates mass frustration, spam, and leaves a bad taste in peoples mouths about villavu. We decided to get rid of it many years ago and with the sudden large influx of users and the return of people using anti-leech we reopened the discussion and talked about it at great length. From that discussion we have decided we do not want to be that type of community. Yes we are about learning rather than ravaging the RS economy, however, people should be encouraged to learn not forced. Forcing someone to learn something will only leave a bad impression of it. It also creates tension between the new users and the old users. There have been many posts and questions on the IRC "How do I fix this ant-leech" and it has gotten on peoples nerves and shorted their patience with new user. Then when a user has a legitimate question (not about anti-leech) but they are trying to learn, they are viciously attacked by multiple member. Is that the kind of community we want to be? To burn ourselves out so much that we attack or ignore the few that want to learn?

    So in short: If you think your script will be abused, don't post it or post a "lite" version of it without banking or something like that.
    Well Said. Additionally, I believe that exploitation of scripts are inevitable irrelevant of the question of antileaches or not. I also believe that including anti-leaches really sets up the potential for someone that can fix it to start selling help over skype or other methods which is clearly unacceptable.

  5. #30
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    Personally, I've never used antileech simply because I didn't want the spam. Hovever, I have seen very new users posting about how they solved an antileech and thanked the scripter because they were glad to have learned.
    That being said, the suggestion of releasing a "light" version is probably the best option for those who want to restrict how their work is used.

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    I am not part of the staff, but I will try to answer some questions based on what I think the staff wants.

    "Adding purposeful waits based on existing variables - functionality unchanged, just time delays."

    There is always this grey area. It is hard to draw a line here. If the script for example is a green dragon fighter and it waits extra long before picking up bones, therefor sometimes losing them, I would say no. But also a rune essence miner, which pauses your char at weird spots looks detectable, we won't want users to get banned! I think if the waits are at good spots, that aren't detectable by other players, that it would be okay.

    "Simple compilation errors."

    No, that would beat the purpose of this forum. We don't want people to spam compilation errors here, not do we want to make running scripts harder then it is. Imagine if your copy of windows came with a few "easy fixable compilation errors" in its kernel. That would kinda suck.

    "Removing key methods."

    Perfectly fine. We used to have a lot of these back in the days. A fish bot which doesn't bank? perfect. Make sure that it drops all its fish of course. You can still release the script to members+ if you want to release it with the banking methods too. But a fighter bot which doesn't eat food is already pushing the limits. We don't want dead users :P

    "Would it be acceptable to have a script that stops after 1 loop, unless they know how to make it run longer?"

    No, I don't think that would be right. Just see it like this: "Everything released in the public forum should be usable by non scripters". So you can't expect people to fix your script.
    Working on: Tithe Farmer

  7. #32
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    I feel like this is a big step backwards
    Previously Gladiatorben on Kaitnieks.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by slixor View Post
    I feel like this is a big step backwards
    No... we won't suddenly start to release frost dragon killers and such just because antileech is banned. Read my post above, this will increase quality.
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    Quote Originally Posted by masterBB View Post
    I am not part of the staff, but I will try to answer some questions based on what I think the staff wants.

    "Adding purposeful waits based on existing variables - functionality unchanged, just time delays."

    There is always this grey area. It is hard to draw a line here. If the script for example is a green dragon fighter and it waits extra long before picking up bones, therefor sometimes losing them, I would say no. But also a rune essence miner, which pauses your char at weird spots looks detectable, we won't want users to get banned! I think if the waits are at good spots, that aren't detectable by other players, that it would be okay.

    "Simple compilation errors."

    No, that would beat the purpose of this forum. We don't want people to spam compilation errors here, not do we want to make running scripts harder then it is. Imagine if your copy of windows came with a few "easy fixable compilation errors" in its kernel. That would kinda suck.

    "Removing key methods."

    Perfectly fine. We used to have a lot of these back in the days. A fish bot which doesn't bank? perfect. Make sure that it drops all its fish of course. You can still release the script to members+ if you want to release it with the banking methods too. But a fighter bot which doesn't eat food is already pushing the limits. We don't want dead users :P

    "Would it be acceptable to have a script that stops after 1 loop, unless they know how to make it run longer?"

    No, I don't think that would be right. Just see it like this: "Everything released in the public forum should be usable by non scripters". So you can't expect people to fix your script.
    I find this quite agreeable (or perhaps even include extra functionality that simply isn't called by default, such as said banking). Perhaps an official statement from @Hobbit would help greatly in upcoming changes for scripts currently implementing the unapproved forms of leech protection?

    Edit: Also, what are public thoughts on adding some sort of initialization check for levels that may not be pertinent to running the script. Easy to remove the check, and usable even without - granted the side "requirements" are met.

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    I don't know anything about making scripts, but i want to learn! If all scripts was just click and go, it would give me no incentive to even look into the program at all. As there is some kind of anti leech, it does make me look into it abit more. I hope to learn something in my time here

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    Quote Originally Posted by CynicRus View Post
    People learn to write your code by reading someone else's. And this is the most effective learning. Even in programming. And in all the scripting is much easier, so whatever manual you did not write it will be for beginners. The rest is a matter of practice.

    No it isn't. No one can just learn programming by looking at any code or script. You first have to read a tutorial on how things work then you can start to look at code and see how other people do things and put their ideas together.

    To Everyone else:

    Putting anti-leech in a script only gets the users interested in removing it and after that, they forget all about coding. They learn only the essentials to allow them to remove it.

    For example, I only learned assembly to allow me to crack applications and reverse stuff.. I'm not going to spend my time writing assembly at all! I only learned scripting because the scripts I wanted did not exist and no one would make them for me and at the time, the requests for such scripts were low.

    I doubt anyone learned scripting from anti-leech. The people who script learned scripting because they wanted to make something that did not exist or because they're competitive or curious. If everyone was a pro scripter/programmer, there'd be almost no users/consumers.

    Anti-leech? Without leeches, who really uses your scripts? Other members? No.. not really.. they use it sometimes because they'd be lazy to write their own and it's convenient since it already exists. Leeches are the ones who report bugs and better a script and use it for every single thing that it's worth. If only people knew how to treat them or get them to give you the information to fix the script.. THEN you'd have a perfect script that works for everyone. Without leeches I don't think there'd even be a villavu. PB's user base is pretty large. Ours is small but we have smarter leeches than them. They don't have leeches. They have a-holes.


    IF you think about it, why do users come to "Villavu.com"? I mean powerbot is wayyyy easier to setup.. It has every script for a leecher.. It's their dream spot.. But has anyone given thought to why someone would just come here? There has to be a reason and I think that reason is to actually do something or learn something. I mean.. the website url is pretty random..
    Last edited by Brandon; 03-13-2013 at 08:53 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brandon View Post
    Anti-leech? Without leeches, who really uses your scripts? Other members? No.. not really.. they use it sometimes because they'd be lazy to write their own and it's convenient since it already exists. Leeches are the ones who report bugs and better a script and use it for every single thing that it's worth. If only people knew how to treat them or get them to give you the information to fix the script.. THEN you'd have a perfect script that works for everyone. Without leeches I don't think there'd even be a villavu. PB's user base is pretty large. Ours is small but we have smarter leeches than them. They don't have leeches. They have a-holes.
    Actually, if they report bugs and stuff in a script they use, they aren't leeches. They're contributing. They're leeches if they just use the script and go, not reporting anything whatsoever (a simple "This is working great for me!" or something would suffice) or if they ask for everything to be given to them right away with no patience or willingness to learn at all. The rest of your post I fully agree with though.

    @Hobbit Thanks for the post, it changed my mind somewhat on the subject
    Last edited by Austin; 03-13-2013 at 08:56 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brandon View Post
    IF you think about it, why do users come to "Villavu.com"? I mean powerbot is wayyyy easier to setup.. It has every script for a leecher.. It's their dream spot.. But has anyone given thought to why someone would just come here? There has to be a reason and I think that reason is to actually do something or learn something. I mean.. the website url is pretty random..
    Some users come to villavu because it is a safer botting platform meaning there is a less chance of having there main banned, and I completely agree with the rest of your post you make a good point.
    Last edited by tristen8878; 03-13-2013 at 10:33 PM.

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    Very bad decision IMO. Script writers should have more freedom in how they release their scripts (obviously obfuscating shouldn't be allowed, because that's an outright security risk), but anti-leech is essentially releasing a script that isn't fully functioning, something which would incredibly unjust to remove a script over.

    Many people wish to release scripts to a wide audience, but without all these script kiddies that come along and just want to abuse. You're removing freedom from your community members in order to get more forum members, not exactly the SRL way, hmm?

    The only way I would see this decision as justified is if we were to reinstate the old 7-day/10-post wait, this irons out all the incredibly impatient script users who just want to abuse our abundance of scripts.

    Not the best decision I've seen the staff make, I'll be honest. Even if this is a very old rule.

    TL;DR Reinstate the 7-day wait, then maintain this rule.

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    I can see a near future where the price of bottable goods (ores/logs/etc) drops quickly.

    With jag cracking down on PB and other injection style bots we will get more of their community comming here. I dont like the mentality of the injection bot user base. Anti-leech can be useful to discourage the riff-raff from comming here.

    In my opinion there should be a set type of anti-leech that is allowed. Disabling the banking section of a script until an anti-leech is solved would help with some of these issues.

    Botting for levels or the cash to train with is okay in my opinion, but botting purely for profit is not.
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    If there was no anti leach i would have just snagged all the scripts and took off tbh. Instead i'm actually able to write my own simple scripts now. They are definitely a good thing.
    Last edited by burden; 03-13-2013 at 11:28 PM.

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    ATM it is looking like we are going to put in place a system like we had a few years ago. Have a section of scripts accessible when you firs register that will only consist of non-banking (ie power levellers) or 'Lite' versions of scripts. You will need to have a certain number of posts and be registered for a certain amount of time to access the banking (amusable) scripts. Details are still being ironed out but this looks like the best solution for everyone ATM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hobbit View Post
    ATM it is looking like we are going to put in place a system like we had a few years ago. Have a section of scripts accessible when you firs register that will only consist of non-banking (ie power levellers) or 'Lite' versions of scripts. You will need to have a certain number of posts and be registered for a certain amount of time to access the banking (amusable) scripts. Details are still being ironed out but this looks like the best solution for everyone ATM.
    This sounds like it is probably the best option. There are definitely pros and cons for both arguments, and this option seems like the halfway point between both. It will be good to see more details when they are released.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hobbit View Post
    ATM it is looking like we are going to put in place a system like we had a few years ago. Have a section of scripts accessible when you firs register that will only consist of non-banking (ie power levellers) or 'Lite' versions of scripts. You will need to have a certain number of posts and be registered for a certain amount of time to access the banking (amusable) scripts. Details are still being ironed out but this looks like the best solution for everyone ATM.
    Brilliant news The right direction for the community, in my opinion. We'll do our best as a community to help and encourage people with programming during their wait period.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hobbit View Post
    ATM it is looking like we are going to put in place a system like we had a few years ago. Have a section of scripts accessible when you firs register that will only consist of non-banking (ie power levellers) or 'Lite' versions of scripts. You will need to have a certain number of posts and be registered for a certain amount of time to access the banking (amusable) scripts. Details are still being ironed out but this looks like the best solution for everyone ATM.
    I agree with the wait time, but I think the post requirement will just cause people to spam to get it.

  21. #46
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    A post-count is to some extent arbitrary, and making a required one encourages needless spam.

    All you devs know what warrants as an anti-leech and what does not, you are only asking if it's allowed because you know it goes against the idea of the new rule. Even a small detail means you intentionally left something unfinished.

    I understand where you're coming from and all, it's just that it ultimately only leads to new dudes like me constantly annoying all the older members for the same small fixes.

    Now the idea of a script that doesn't have banking, but does have a thread where members have helped write the banking for it. That actually sounds like I might learn something, and it doesn't leave me feeling like you handed me a broken gameshark and told me to find someone to help me fix it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hobbit View Post
    Anti-leech only creates mass frustration, spam, and leaves a bad taste in peoples mouths about villavu. We decided to get rid of it many years ago and with the sudden large influx of users and the return of people using anti-leech we reopened the discussion and talked about it at great length. From that discussion we have decided we do not want to be that type of community. Yes we are about learning rather than ravaging the RS economy, however, people should be encouraged to learn not forced. Forcing someone to learn something will only leave a bad impression of it. It also creates tension between the new users and the old users. There have been many posts and questions on the IRC "How do I fix this ant-leech" and it has gotten on peoples nerves and shorted their patience with new user. Then when a user has a legitimate question (not about anti-leech) but they are trying to learn, they are viciously attacked by multiple member. Is that the kind of community we want to be? To burn ourselves out so much that we attack or ignore the few that want to learn?

    So in short: If you think your script will be abused, don't post it or post a "lite" version of it without banking or something like that.

    Let me summarize your answer:
    We want more users. Leechers are more common.

  23. #48
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    Seems ridiculous that script writers can't release how they want, but I guess if the mods say so it has to be done that way :/

    Quote Originally Posted by Hobbit View Post
    ATM it is looking like we are going to put in place a system like we had a few years ago. Have a section of scripts accessible when you firs register that will only consist of non-banking (ie power levellers) or 'Lite' versions of scripts. You will need to have a certain number of posts and be registered for a certain amount of time to access the banking (amusable) scripts. Details are still being ironed out but this looks like the best solution for everyone ATM.
    ^Support for this though
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    I also disagree with the anti-leech removal idea. I know my post won't mean anything, but, well, if all the people who couldn't use some script just because of some anti-leech, will start to use it, the bot will get popular and even might get detected, resulting in Jagex giving bans to some of us. I love the concept of anti-leech, it may be not the best learning material, but it sure teaches you to pay more attention to code and also script is more unique and less detectable when leeches can't use it. :P Villavu was different from all the sites involved in RS Botting purely because this was more of a learning community, than a botting one. Oh well, I hope to see some alternative to anti-leech, for people to actually do something, not just download-run-level up-delete. (even the post or registration time idea seems appropriate :P)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brid Mayhem View Post
    Let me summarize your answer:
    We want more users. Leechers are more common.
    Please do not summarize my posts when they are short to begin with and you take them out of context.
    We don't want more users, we cant to be able to help the ones who do want to learn and not lash out at them like many members have been doing lately.
    I could care less if we have 5 members or 5000 members, I look out for the interests of those who want to learn and will make decisions based on what will give them the best chances of learning. I could care less if someone wasn't able to farm runescape, thats not we're about. Our goal is not to rape and pillage the runescape economy. It is about a intellectual game of cat and mouse with Jagex and about what we can learn and what we can teach others.
    STOP PM'ING ME

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