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Thread: SRL reflection

  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by DannyRS View Post
    It's not trackable if done correctly, avoiding all the Jagex catches,

    But Jagex have said they are going to bring "current anti botting technologies" to the client, so it will be a legal crapstorm again soon :/

    So I don't think it's a good use of time, maybe if a few months pass and they don't change the client
    wonder what kind of technologies they will bring.. the new clusterflutter

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    Quote Originally Posted by NKN View Post
    Reflection isn't really worth looking into.
    We don't have an active team of reflection developers for one, and two, what happens when they make the switch to HTML5? We could have used that time to better the SRL include, and not worried about reflection.
    SRL-OSR could use reflection, Old School Runescape will probably never be converted to HTML5.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Benny View Post
    wonder what kind of technologies they will bring.. the new clusterflutter
    that and the encryption thing that made reading their code a copyright breach violation I guess

    Quote Originally Posted by NKN View Post
    Reflection isn't really worth looking into.
    We don't have an active team of reflection developers for one, and two, what happens when they make the switch to HTML5? We could have used that time to better the SRL include, and not worried about reflection.
    I'm pretty sure we could find active people, but it's just not worth the legal issues like you say, use the time to better the color Include
    Last edited by DannyRS; 03-20-2013 at 11:25 AM.


    Programming is like trying keep a wall of shifting sand up, you fix one thing but somewhere else starts crumbling

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    Quote Originally Posted by DannyRS View Post
    that and the encryption thing that made reading their code a copyright breach violation I guess



    I'm pretty sure we could find active people, but it's just not worth the legal issues like you say, use the time to better the color Include
    I don't think there are any legal issues(?) as long as you don't change the code like injection does.

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    Quote Originally Posted by core View Post
    http://www.jagex.com/g=runescape/ter...ctual_property

    "You must not reverse-engineer, decompile or modify any Jagex Product client software in any way"

    In order to successfully implement reflection, you must first discover/identify the structures (objects/methods/fields) that you will be referencing. So while I'm not sure that using developed reflection is against that particular term, the act and process of developing using reflection certainly appears to be.
    ToS isn't law.

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    Quote Originally Posted by core View Post
    In general ToS may be legally binding unless it violates any federal or local laws, the same as any contract.

    The interesting part is that there are several ways in which Jagex limits the enforcability of this particular ToS. It is missing several key clauses and has specific wording that weakens its strength, especially internationally. It appears that its main purpose is to defend it against litigation, rather than to use as a basis for litigation. However, they may still use it as support in a lawsuit that is based on other claims, particularly use in bad faith related to diminishing the value of a product or service such as subscription revenue.

    The ToS as well as the Rules of Conduct are cited in section 9 of JAGEX LIMITED v. IMPULSE SOFTWARE (aka rs bot).

    The specific laws that are used as the grounds for enforcement are:


    This is applicable because:


    Other parts of the complaint are based on their bot incorporating Jagex intellectual property (images and name), as well as facilitating other users to break the ToS.

    Jagex won this case on all counts, creating precedent and broadened the avenue for similar complaints to be held valid by the court in the future.

    Complaint: http://www.scribd.com/doc/131525869/JaGeX-vs-Impulse
    Obligatory IANAL/TINLA
    They even claimed copywrite over the skill icons lol

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by core View Post
    In general ToS may be legally binding unless it violates any federal or local laws, the same as any contract.

    The interesting part is that there are several ways in which Jagex limits the enforcability of this particular ToS. It is missing several key clauses and has specific wording that weakens its strength, especially internationally. It appears that its main purpose is to defend it against litigation, rather than to use as a basis for litigation. However, they may still use it as support in a lawsuit that is based on other claims, particularly use in bad faith related to diminishing the value of a product or service such as subscription revenue.

    The ToS as well as the Rules of Conduct are cited in section 9 of JAGEX LIMITED v. IMPULSE SOFTWARE (aka rs bot).

    The specific laws that are used as the grounds for enforcement are:


    This is applicable because:


    Other parts of the complaint are based on their bot incorporating Jagex intellectual property (images and name), as well as facilitating other users to break the ToS.

    Jagex won this case on all counts, creating precedent and broadened the avenue for similar complaints to be held valid by the court in the future.

    Complaint: http://www.scribd.com/doc/131525869/JaGeX-vs-Impulse
    Obligatory IANAL/TINLA
    If I'm right in saying, does this mean that anyone who uses an injection client is at risk of legal issues, due to using a modified game client, while those that use reflection aren't, as it any reads "reflected" information? Although, I can't imagine Jagex would nver bother pursuing individual botting client uses

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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    If I'm right in saying, does this mean that anyone who uses an injection client is at risk of legal issues, due to using a modified game client, while those that use reflection aren't, as it any reads "reflected" information? Although, I can't imagine Jagex would nver bother pursuing individual botting client uses
    Paris isn't.
    They have some lawyers who fixed everything, meh.

    AFAIK, Oldschool is still legal. None of these security measures were added yet, making it still legal to inject/reflect oldschool.

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    :S Doesn't seem illegal to me.. Only things I can think of is that "copying, reproducing,
    making, displaying, importing, selling, and/or distributing the Software in conjunction with
    selling Defendants’ Bots without authorization from Jagex" got them in trouble?

    Reproducing someone else's (Jagex's) client is illegal? :S I don't see anything there that says Injection/Reflection is illegal.
    There is no law that I know of that says you cannot reverse engineer something.
    I am Ggzz..
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    As far as I know, in terms of client hacking:
    EoC: Illegal/questionably legal in the United States
    2007: Legal

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    Quote Originally Posted by core View Post
    Could you explain how it (accessing private variables, as has already been entered as a clarification to the law through precedent by the judgement in favor of Jagex's claim) doesn't violate Section 1201 Subsection 2, which I quote below directly from the law?


    (I'm not personally against injection or reflection, et. al, I'm genuinely interested in getting to the bottom of this)
    Skype me, it'll be easier that way cause I'm trying to get some work done atm.

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    Quote Originally Posted by core View Post
    Could you explain how it (accessing private variables, as has already been entered as a clarification to the law through precedent by the judgement in favor of Jagex's claim) doesn't violate Section 1201 Subsection 2, which I quote below directly from the law?


    (I'm not personally against injection or reflection, et. al, I'm genuinely interested in getting to the bottom of this)

    These laws you mentioned seems to be pretty subjective.. How come GameShark and Action-Replay still exist?
    GameShark/Action-Replay specifically exists to circumvent technological measures against cheating in almost every single game..

    Why is Jailbreaking legal if it is made specifically to break the iPhone's security despite what Apple and the law says? Actually, it was deemed legal by the supreme court in the US.

    I can't even count on my fingers the amount of programs that circumvent Valve's Anti-Cheat system as well as Websites dedicated to breaking it with loaders and what not.. These are legal because it help's reverse engineers learn.

    I believe it becomes illegal when you begin to actually copy code or modify someone's code and redistribute it for profit such as what PB and the two brothers did? Yet PB still exists.. How about RSBuddy? RSBuddy wasn't illegal at all :S

    The amount of illegal stuff on sites like hackforums is overwhelming..
    Last edited by Brandon; 03-21-2013 at 02:43 AM.
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    I dont see why everyone wants reflection for walking. I find walking one of the easiest things to do. Ive never had a problem once i get a good method of ATPA's/Custom SPS. It works flawlessly for days until i stop it o.O

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    Quote Originally Posted by Itankbots View Post
    I dont see why everyone wants reflection for walking. I find walking one of the easiest things to do. Ive never had a problem once i get a good method of ATPA's/Custom SPS. It works flawlessly for days until i stop it o.O
    Because SPS guess's were you are which isn't always accurate, tiles are 100% accurate

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    Quote Originally Posted by RJJ95 View Post
    Because SPS guess's were you are which isn't always accurate, tiles are 100% accurate
    Custom SPS map.
    100% accuracy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NKN View Post
    Custom SPS map.
    100% accuracy.
    Not 100% as in tile walking. You can't make sure you land on a specific square with SPS. It is good enough accuracy for general walking purposes tough.
    Miner & Urn Crafter & 07 Chicken Killer
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    Quote Originally Posted by litoris View Post
    Not 100% as in tile walking. You can't make sure you land on a specific square with SPS. It is good enough accuracy for general walking purposes tough.
    There was a function somewhere that let you get to the exact tile. It's somewhere around here, few months old.

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    On the topic of walking, the reason reflection is considered "better" is due to the efficiency as well as accuracy. Although I've never actually looked at the SPS code, I can image the algorithm would require a lot of searching through parts of the map to determine its position. Reflection, on the other hand, is working with smaller and fewer numbers. (this is all pretty assumptious knowledge from me, I could be wrong)

  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    On the topic of walking, the reason reflection is considered "better" is due to the efficiency as well as accuracy. Although I've never actually looked at the SPS code, I can image the algorithm would require a lot of searching through parts of the map to determine its position. Reflection, on the other hand, is working with smaller and fewer numbers. (this is all pretty assumptious knowledge from me, I could be wrong)
    Exactly

    @MKN, theres a function that walks to exact tile, but it's a bit buggy :/

    We can't really compete with Java walking tbh, but we can get close enough in most cases


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